Priming compound

[Thundermaker]

I have a tap-o-cap, and I'm looking to make some caps.

Any time someone starts a thread like this, they are bombarded with different versions of the same question. That question is, "why do you want to do that?". I figure it's best to go ahead and get that out of the way. My reasons are as follows:

1. Limited availability- There is one store within 50 miles that carries them. They don't stock much at the time. They only carry CCI, and I've had a lot of problems with theirs, which leads me to reason 2.

2.Poor quality of commercial caps- Besides the blowing apart and gumming up the works on revolvers, they are extremely susceptible to ambient moisture. I live in South GA. Of all the deficiencies we have, moisture isn't one of them.


With that out of the way, I have some questions for those who have made their own priming compounds.

Since no stores around here carry roll caps anymore (yes, it's that bad), I have been looking into alternatives. Potassium chloride seems to be my best bet, since it's easy to make, but there's a snag. All the mixtures I find using KClO3 also use sulfur. The sulphur can form sulfuric acid, which will cause the mixture to spontaneously combust. This means that any caps made with these mixtures must be made shortly before use and used up. I want something more shelf-stable.

Can the KClO3 be used without the sulfur? Does anyone know of a better option that won't put me any higher on the government watch list than I already am?

[ofitg]

I have a tap-o-cap, and I'm looking to make some caps.

Any time someone starts a thread like this, they are bombarded with different versions of the same question. That question is, "why do you want to do that?". I figure it's best to go ahead and get that out of the way. My reasons are as follows:

1. Limited availability- There is one store within 50 miles that carries them. They don't stock much at the time. They only carry CCI, and I've had a lot of problems with theirs, which leads me to reason 2.

2.Poor quality of commercial caps- Besides the blowing apart and gumming up the works on revolvers, they are extremely susceptible to ambient moisture. I live in South GA. Of all the deficiencies we have, moisture isn't one of them.


With that out of the way, I have some questions for those who have made their own priming compounds.

Since no stores around here carry roll caps anymore (yes, it's that bad), I have been looking into alternatives. Potassium chloride seems to be my best bet, since it's easy to make, but there's a snag. All the mixtures I find using KClO3 also use sulfur. The sulphur can form sulfuric acid, which will cause the mixture to spontaneously combust. This means that any caps made with these mixtures must be made shortly before use and used up. I want something more shelf-stable.

Can the KClO3 be used without the sulfur? Does anyone know of a better option that won't put me any higher on the government watch list than I already am?

KClO3 is Potassium Chlorate. If you look at this list, you will find that the U.S. Army has used Potassium Chlorate & Sulfur primers in the past - The old H48 and FH-42 formulas -

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/priming-mixtures.58110/

They do not "spontaneously combust". If you're interested, here is an 1899 write-up on development of the H48 primer compound -

https://books.google.com/books?id=JYRZAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA191&lpg=PA191&dq=ground+glass+h48&source=bl&ots=FkNX34SNiv&sig=UfiD9-Eh-cMe-cZKCo178GkZSzw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi9rrzDoabRAhWESyYKHdGTC8YQ6AEILzAE#v=on epage&q=ground%20glass%20h48&f=false

[Thundermaker]

KClO3 is Potassium Chlorate.

I typed it, but autocorrect didn't like my word choice apparently.:)

[jdfoxinc]

PM me an email address. I'll send you a .pdf of Marshall's document up that summarizes the locked thread 'can you make priming compound.

[rancher1913]

you used to be able to buy a kit from sharpshooters, the 22 reload guys, that had everything in the right quanities to make priming compound

[LAGS]

I make my own primer caps and use the Prime All chemicals you can buy.
I make both H48 and FH 42 compounds out of the same chemicals provided in the kit.
The FH42 seems to work better for me.
For a priming compound measuring scoop I made scoop out of center fire primer cups soldered to a brass rod.
A level small primer cup full of compound works good.
Ones made with using a Large primer cup scoop work better, and a little hotter.
I also use Acetone with a few drops of Nail Polish added as a binder.
My primers so far have been over 90% reliability.
I also use the same two compounds when I reload 22 LR ammo or recharge some Berdan primers.
Again.
The FH 42 compound seems to work better for me.

[Thundermaker]

you used to be able to buy a kit from sharpshooters, the 22 reload guys, that had everything in the right quanities to make priming compound

You still can, but that stuff isn't the best either.

[Thundermaker]

I make my own primer caps and use the Prime All chemicals you can buy.
I make both H48 and FH 42 compounds out of the same chemicals provided in the kit.
The FH42 seems to work better for me.
For a priming compound measuring scoop I made school out of center fire primer cups soldered to a brass rod.
A level small primer cup full of compound works good.
Ones made with using a Large primer cup scoop work better.
I also use Acetone with a few drops of Nail Polish added as a binder.
My primers so far have been over 90% reliability.
I also use the same two compounds when I reload 22 LR ammo or recharge some Berdan primers.
Again.
The FH 42 compound seems to work better for me.

Have you ever tried a product called "Duco Cement" as a binder? It's a waterproof nitrocellulose adhesive. Someone on thehighroad was using it to seal his caps that he made from roll caps. It is flammable, and might actually help ignition.

[LAGS]

The prime All compound is Good.
But mix it by WEIGHT not Volume as the directions in the kit say and they provide a measuring scoop.
Mixed by volume I had 75% reliability.
Mixed by Weight the reliability went up to well over 90% and more.

[Thundermaker]

The prime All compound is Good.
But mix it by WEIGHT not Volume as the directions in the kit say and they provide a measuring scoop.
Mixed by volume I had 75% reliability.
Mixed by Weight the reliability went up to well over 90% and more.

As much as I hate to admit it, I am looking for something I can make, in case Ramblin' Joe gets his wish and bans online sales.

All I'm trying to do is set off a cap and ball revolver. The flame doesn't have to travel far, and it doesn't have to be all that hot.

[tankgunner59]

LAGS how do you determine the weights to use?

[LAGS]

There is a site that I found under Frankford Arsenal Priming Compounds.
It shows Many priming compounds.
It is listed by Percentages.
But for our quantities , I just use one Grain is 1%
I E.
For FH42.
47.2 grains of Potassium Chlorate
30.83 grains of the Antimony Sulphate
21.97 grains of the Sulfur
All these are three of the powders in the prime All Kit
The H48 compound uses the same chemicals plus Glass Powder all in a different percentage.
H48 is,
49.6 grains of Potassium Chlorate
25.1 grains of Antimony Sulfate
8.7 grains of Sulfur
16.6 grains of glass powder.
Again.
These are the four powders in the Prime All Kit

[LAGS]

Almost 50 years ago , I made all my primers with either White Tipped Strike anywhere matches.
You can't find those any more.
Then I switched to Toy cap gun Caps.
Now , those are so Low Power it takes a ton of them to make one primer.
Plus it takes forever to collect all the powder off the caps.
The priming compounds I mentioned can be made from chemicals that you Can Buy from most Pyrotechnical supply companies or scientific suppliers.
So I feel that is the way to go if restrictions are imposed.
One pound of each chemical will last you a lifetime.
But for Safety.
Only mix up the final compound in small quantities as you need it.
All three chemicals are not Hazardous when stored by themselves.
But once mixed together as a priming compound , they can be dangerous if stored in large quantities.

[perotter]

I tested several primer mixes for how long they would last. They were stored exposed in a damp basement. The Ron Brown mix of chlorate and sulfur worked well for a full year after making it. At 18 months it was at the point of being iffy. At 2 years it wasn't good and didn't always fire.

FWIW Both FA42 and H48 both were fine for 2 years. At 2 years the samples were used up, so I didn't test for longer than that.

[Thundermaker]

I think this may be the most productive thread I have ever posted on a forum. I asked a question and got concise answers with actual data. Thanks guys.

[GregLaROCHE]

I never new there were so many options for making your own primers. Good to know with the current drought of primers upon us.

[mooman76]

Almost 50 years ago , I made all my primers with either White Tipped Strike anywhere matches.
You can't find those any more.
Then I switched to Toy cap gun Caps.
Now , those are so Low Power it takes a ton of them to make one primer.
Plus it takes forever to collect all the powder off the caps.
The priming compounds I mentioned can be made from chemicals that you Can Buy from most Pyrotechnical supply companies or scientific suppliers.
So I feel that is the way to go if restrictions are imposed.
One pound of each chemical will last you a lifetime.
But for Safety.
Only mix up the final compound in small quantities as you need it.
All three chemicals are not Hazardous when stored by themselves.
But once mixed together as a priming compound , they can be dangerous if stored in large quantities.

You can still get the matches but they can be difficult to find. I thought about ordering them on line but very expensive, then I found some in a ranch store for a reasonable price.

[LAGS]

@Thundermaker
This is why I like this Forum.
The people are more than willing to share their knowledge .
If you have knowledge, then half of your problems are solved.

[waksupi]

I've played with potassium chlorate in the past. It can be VERY unstable. If you use it, mix in very small amounts. A little pile the size of a match head on an anvil, and struck with a hammer, will likely launch the hammer out of your hand.

[LAGS]

@ thundermaker.
I have never tried the Duco Cement as a binder.
Mostly because I want to find some of the Basic material to use that will be available even if the economy goes south or you can't get some materials where you are.
Nail polish is Paint.
But I will be trying other products like glues .
I gather knowledge in the Good Times , and Bank it away for the Bad Times

[ofitg]

Nail polish is Paint.



https://www.compoundchem.com/2017/04/06/nail-polish/#:~:text=Conventional%20nail%20polish%20consists%2 0of,a%20film%20on%20the%20nail.

Conventional nail polish consists of a polymer, most commonly nitrocellulose, dissolved in a solvent, usually ethyl acetate or butyl acetate. When it is applied the solvent evaporates, leaving the polymer to form a film on the nail.

[Duckdog]

In all reality, the 22 Reloader Prime All kit works pretty good. I have the individual chemicals, but they are harder to come by. A good binder is shellac or Arabic Gum. The Prime All kit has it all in it. I have a Tap o cap, but I see the 22 reloader guys are selling a cap maker, as well.

There is a thread on here for reloading 22 LR that has lots of priming info in it. Personally I use the H48 and it works great and the caps are pretty hot. I'm with ya in that I have maybe 1K of commercial caps, but they are as rare as a hares tooth around my neck of the woods.

[perotter]

I've played with potassium chlorate in the past. It can be VERY unstable. If you use it, mix in very small amounts. A little pile the size of a match head on an anvil, and struck with a hammer, will likely launch the hammer out of your hand.

While one needs to deal with potassium chlorate with much respect, I've hit 100's of piles that size and the hammer never launched from my hand.

By the way, I'll never be mistaken for Tor. Or Tarzan for that matter.

[Traffer]

This might help:
http://aardvarkreloading.com/primers.html

[rancher1913]

my google foo must be crap, just what is glass powder. I can find reference to silica but nothing turns up at the fireworks sites.

never mind, traffers link just answered the question, its literally ground up glass

[perotter]

FWIW. Instead of powdered glass I use the finest sized sand that I find locally at a DIY store. It was labeled as being for sand blasting and came from a mine at Menominee WI. Using it the primers fired 100% of the time. As the bag was 50 lbs, it worked and having no other use for it I've never bought a different brand, etc to test. Less labor than powdering glass. The shelf life of the primers might not be as long, but I never did a comparative test against powdered glass vs. sand.

[Idz]

glass ranks about 5 Mohs hardness where sand, silica, quartz is much harder at 7 Mohs. The tiny amount in a primer probably is no big deal but sandblasting the nipple and barrel probably isn't a good idea.

[LAGS]

Next time I mix up some more H48 compound , I think I will try using some of my Glass Bead blasting media instead of ground glass powder.
In a way it is glass from what I have heard.
But I know that silica will work too.

[perotter]

glass ranks about 5 Mohs hardness where sand, silica, quartz is much harder at 7 Mohs. The tiny amount in a primer probably is no big deal but sandblasting the nipple and barrel probably isn't a good idea.

That hardness is most likely at room temperature. At the time the "flame" of the primer mix, it is in a molten or semi-molten state and therefore much softer than it is at room temperature.

The normal example that is used that it causes no barrel wear is the .22 rimfire. But I've never seen a real test done that shows it is or isn't a problem.

[perotter]

Next time I mix up some more H48 compound , I think I will try using some of my Glass Bead blasting media instead of ground glass powder.
In a way it is glass from what I have heard.
But I know that silica will work too.

Please let us know how it goes. Part of what makes a for a good frictionizer is how sharp the edges are. I have tested other sands of the same size grade that didn't work at all, as in getting zero % of the compound test to fire.

[lrdg]

I bought a case of strike anywhere Diamond Matches at my local Ace hardware store. (They had a few boxes on the shelf so they ordered the amount I wanted. BTW ~ Small town)

[mooman76]

When I was a kid we found out if we put the strike anywhere matches down the barrel of a BB gun and fired them at a reasonably hard object, they would make a neat popping sound.

[TheOutlawKid]

..i was the person on the high road who used duco cement. I did a write up on how to make the caps using roll caps. They are still available if you know where to look. The prime all kit is ok but too expensive for what you get. The stibnite. The antimony trisulfide is what i had an issie with, it has to be a certain percentage of mesh sizes. Also ground glass isn't a necessity..the antimony trisulfide does the job just fine. I mix the 3 main ingredients (potassium chlorate, sulfur, and antimony trisulfide) without anything to use a frictioner and i get 100% reliable ignition. I did buy need to buy different sizes of antimony though. I had used the "chinese needle" 200 mesh size size and it didnt work. Tried the 325 mesh size and that didnt work. I got some from the company "united nuclear" and it didnt work either. So i read up more and it turns out you need a specific combination of mesh sizes for this ingredient to work. I combined the chinese needle 200 mesh size with the united nuclear mesh size in a 1:1 ratio, then mixed my primer mix ingredients along with a little baking soda to give it better shelf life...this gave me 100% ignition. I use highly diluted Duco cement glue...i dilute with acetone...maybe about 8:1 acetone to duco and i put one drop of it over my priming powder, then place a rice paper disk over it to help seal it and protect it. Works very well.

[Bert2368]

A couple of observations from someone who has mixed up several types of things that go "bang", even got a license to manufacture.

Your ingredients quality is very important. If you can access it, get Potassium chlorate sold to MATCH MAKING COMPANIES. This product will be very good, pure chlorate as matches need to be storage stable for years, even decades. The best stuff used to be made in Spain, look very carefully at the spec sheets for any Chinese chlorate and just don't trust home made electrolytic chlorate for any storage life unless you know enough chemistry to do your own purification and TESTING after.

Similarly, "Sulfur" covers a wide range of commercial products. If you can find "rubber makers Sulfur" which is a grade extracted from sour crude oil during refining, this is very pure and suitable. It will not hurt to wash even this variety in several changes of warm water anyhow, in case any oxidation has occurred in storage and started to produce sulfurous acids- Chlorate and ANY acidity are a bad mix, resulting in either slow deactivation of the mixture or a fire.

If you are damping a mixture with water, use only DISTILLED WATER. Well water is a bad choice for chemistry and a particularly bad for explosives chemistry. Example: Some while back, GOEX had a problem with their factory water supply and fell back on using untreated well water from a well on the plant property for damping powder while milling until things got fixed. Shortly after, the US military noticed a number of problems with weapons systems using black powder for igniters, bursters and so on becoming erratic or failing to work at all- Which was traced back to the hard well water used in those lots of powder. Primers are WAY more sensitive to contamination problems of this type than black powder...

If you use nitrocellulose lacquer for binding/waterproofing, be aware that it comes in a wide variety of nitration %, degree and type of storage stabilization and viscosity per weight of solvent used. For commercial nitrocellulose lacquers, hydrolyzed "microcrystaline cellulose" may be used for the nitration which comes in a number of different lengths of cellulose molecule, chosen for the desired viscosity of the lacquer being produced. Dissolving single based powder by first soaking them in ethanol & then adding acetone works... But don't expect different source materials to behave the same, you will have to start over experimenting if you change ingredient sources.

Similarly, cheap solvents from the hardware or paint store are not very pure- Take the time to find more expensive but purer reagent grade solvents and/or consumption grade 180 proof ethanol, you're not using very much.

About sensitizing with grit: As someone above noted, fine "soda glass" powder melts at the temperature of a primer flame. Quartz sand DOES NOT. Asside from sand possibly causing barrel abrasion, MOLTEN DROPLETS OF GLASS STICK TO POWDER GRANULES AND TRANSFER HEAT THIS WAY, CAUSING DURABLE HOT SPOTS. It's not just included for the sensitizing to friction & shock. I make a high temperature prime for pyrotechnics which includes DIATOMACEOUS EARTH for this reason, the microscopic skeletons of diatoms melt in the flame and stick to what I'm trying to light, even though it is moving through the air at high speeds. You might try a bit of this, it's dirt cheap.

Keep quantities small and keep your fingers where they belong.

[perotter]

A couple of observations from someone who has mixed up several types of things that go "bang", even got a license to manufacture.

Your ingredients quality is very important. If you can access it, get Potassium chlorate sold to MATCH MAKING COMPANIES. This product will be very good, pure chlorate as matches need to be storage stable for years, even decades. The best stuff used to be made in Spain, look very carefully at the spec sheets for any Chinese chlorate and just don't trust home made electrolytic chlorate for any storage life unless you know enough chemistry to do your own purification and TESTING after.

Similarly, "Sulfur" covers a wide range of commercial products. If you can find "rubber makers Sulfur" which is a grade extracted from sour crude oil during refining, this is very pure and suitable. It will not hurt to wash even this variety in several changes of warm water anyhow, in case any oxidation has occurred in storage and started to produce sulfurous acids- Chlorate and ANY acidity are a bad mix, resulting in either slow deactivation of the mixture or a fire.

If you are damping a mixture with water, use only DISTILLED WATER. Well water is a bad choice for chemistry and a particularly bad for explosives chemistry. Example: Some while back, GOEX had a problem with their factory water supply and fell back on using untreated well water from a well on the plant property for damping powder while milling until things got fixed. Shortly after, the US military noticed a number of problems with weapons systems using black powder for igniters, bursters and so on becoming erratic or failing to work at all- Which was traced back to the hard well water used in those lots of powder. Primers are WAY more sensitive to contamination problems of this type than black powder...

If you use nitrocellulose lacquer for binding/waterproofing, be aware that it comes in a wide variety of nitration %, degree and type of storage stabilization and viscosity per weight of solvent used. For commercial nitrocellulose lacquers, hydrolyzed "microcrystaline cellulose" may be used for the nitration which comes in a number of different lengths of cellulose molecule, chosen for the desired viscosity of the lacquer being produced. Dissolving single based powder by first soaking them in ethanol & then adding acetone works... But don't expect different source materials to behave the same, you will have to start over experimenting if you change ingredient sources.

Similarly, cheap solvents from the hardware or paint store are not very pure- Take the time to find more expensive but purer reagent grade solvents and/or consumption grade 180 proof ethanol, you're not using very much.

About sensitizing with grit: As someone above noted, fine "soda glass" powder melts at the temperature of a primer flame. Quartz sand DOES NOT. Asside from sand possibly causing barrel abrasion, MOLTEN DROPLETS OF GLASS STICK TO POWDER GRANULES AND TRANSFER HEAT THIS WAY, CAUSING DURABLE HOT SPOTS. It's not just included for the sensitizing to friction & shock. I make a high temperature prime for pyrotechnics which includes DIATOMACEOUS EARTH for this reason, the microscopic skeletons of diatoms melt in the flame and stick to what I'm trying to light, even though it is moving through the air at high speeds. You might try a bit of this, it's dirt cheap.

Keep quantities small and keep your fingers where they belong.

Personally I assume that the chemicals will not be the purest grade, but are for short term storage only. Also, some types of glasses greatly decreases the length of time a compound will be good. But personally I haven't come up with a reason stockpile several years of DIY primer compound or primers.

I have to disagree with you a bit about the use of sand. Quartz melts at 3000 degrees at std pressure. Without looking at my notes, I can only think of 1 compound that doesn't exceed that temperature. But the burn temp of BP or smokeless would be lower and cool the particles. FWIW. The compounds I like the best all have aluminium in them so the temperature are more in the 4000 degrees plus range.