take down power of 38spl 125gr penta points

[farmbif]

something was going on last night, it was snowing and quiet, but the dog was going crazy. grabbed my little 38spl S&W and took a look around but didn't see anything going on. got me thinking about just how effective those 38 spl loads would be. the bullets are clww cast in old group buy mp mold 357-125
rnfp. these were cast with penta point. and loaded over 5.4 grains be86, about 1000fps out of 4" barrel.

[country gent]

That load should be adequate for any "critters" you may have to deal with. I do believe strongly that accuracy is king well placed shots in the vitals are effective misses and shots outside arnt, even with lesser calibers.

[Conditor22]

I wouldn't want to be hit by it, then again I have developed a strong aversion to being shot.

[atr]

I also use 125 gr cast RN in my old .38 spl. Fire one into a 4x4 and you will see how effective they are!

[Froogal]

My first target holder consisted of several 2x4s constructed to be large enough to hold a paper target. Those .38 specials were going right through, so I doubled them up, and some of the shots were still going through.

[Kosh75287]

I'D want a heavier bullet, but as has been said, I wouldn't want to be in the way of your handload, either.

[rintinglen]

Back in 1994, a robbery suspect in south Central LA took one 38 Spl. 125 grain +P in his left thigh, staggered three steps and dropped. He'd have likely bleed to death if an off-duty fireman hadn't provided prompt first aid. So I think your 125 HP would do all right. Certainly most 4 legged trash raiders would be fair game, and most two-legged varmints wouldn't enjoy the experience either.

[Winger Ed.]

Its fine for critters and other unarmored varmints at conversational ranges.
I look at it as sort being on the top end of .38s and in the lower range of a light weight .357 made for that purpose.

[bigboredad]

The only question I have about is for the 2 legged varmints. My question is the obesity pandemic that has been going on for the last 20yrs. I realize most of the 2 legged vermin don't fall into this category but it is still something that I question

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[Cargo]

The only question I have about is for the 2 legged varmints. My question is the obesity pandemic that has been going on for the last 20yrs. I realize most of the 2 legged vermin don't fall into this category but it is still something that I question

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I'd be more concerned with drunks, dusters and methaleptics. I've known two people shot with .38 lrn. One had his femur cleanly cut at about 20 feet and the other fella was a tow truck driver that took 5 to the chest at PB, he then drove to the hospital just clinging to life.

I try to keep our defensive .38s in the 950-1050 fps range with 158gr cast or sjhp's but placement is everything.

[Kosh75287]

and the other fella was a tow truck driver that took 5 to the chest at PB, he then drove to the hospital just clinging to life.

but placement is everything
Okay, SOMEthing's not together...
I don't think it's possible to launch a 125 gr. or 160 gr. bullet TOO fast for defensive purposes. I'D want 1300 f/s minimum for the 125s and 1100 f/s for 160s. Unless perhaps loaded up to the ragged edge of SAAMI specs & fired from a 6" barrel, I'm not confident that this can be obtained with "regular" .38 Special loads.
Failing that, one is constrained to "overload" some of their .38 Special rounds if they own a .38 Special, or load their revolver with .357 Mag rounds if they own a .357. Loading a .357 with overloaded .38s makes SOME sense in terms of better controllabilty and more positive ejection should a reload be needed. But I think I would be inclined to load a .357 revolver with full-house .357 Mag loads, and practice assiuously on hitting as well with it as the overloaded .38s

[725]

I wouldn't stand in front of your load, but if it were me, I'd want a heavier load with a solid bullet. Good meplat pushed as fast as you are accurate with. Now that winter is coming, the two legged vermin tend to add clothing, and some of that is tough enough to affect your lighter HP bullets. Accuracy & penetration. There is a reason the 158 gr. semi-wadcutter dominated police revolvers for so long. I know they work.

[Winger Ed.]

The only question I have about is for the 2 legged varmints.

Reminds me of a buddy. He came to visit one time and carried in a pistol griped 12 ga. Mossberg pump.
I asked him about it since before he'd always had a double stack 9mm within arms reach.

He told me, "As I've gotten older, I don't see as well as I used to".

[WebMonkey]

unforgiven

[Alferd Packer]

Whatever you shoot that pistol at, you better take note of your backstop.

[Forrest r]

I should re-test a be-86 load.

I cast a 110gr "indoor" swc bullet #33 cramer that is actually a rn bullet with the rn set in so that the shoulder of the bullet cuts clean holes in paper. Cramer lists this bullet as 115gr but my mold (2-cavity) drops a 110gr bullet using range scrap and pc. Basically it's a gallery/parlor bullet that does extremely well doing what it's supposed to do, namely for lite indoor loads. I decided to see hat they could do if I heated them up a bit and loaded up some 38spl 's and 9mm's using that bullet.

A 3.2" bbl'd 9mm got 1300fps+ with that cramer #33 bullet.
A 2" bbl'd 38spl snubnosed revolver got just under 1000fps using be-86 & 1100fps+ using unique.

In other tests using the same snubnosed revolver unique & be-86 were always within 40fps of each other when testing 150gr to 170gr bullets. Odd that power pistol & be-86 doesn't like lite bullets in the 38spl cases with 18,000psi+. But that 9mm load was 35,000psi+/- using power pistol.

I don't know if be-86 doesn't like lite bullets in the 38spl's. Power pistol doesn't and be-86 is supposed to be the flash suppressant version of the same powder.

[Garyshome]

"Unless perhaps loaded up to the ragged edge of SAAMI specs & fired from a 6" barrel,"

:brokenima

[Bigbore5]

I shoot a Hunter's Specialty 125 penta over 4.7gr universal. It penetrated 8 water jugs, bouncing off the 9th. No expansion, but plenty of penetration!

[Alferd Packer]

Once there was a 200 grain load called police load in .38 special.
Reportedly a fleeing perpetrator was shot in the back pocket area and the pelvis would break bringing down the man.
Also in the 40's and 50's they wore their pants higher.
The hip hop crowd of the times.
I loaded some and shot them.
Low velocity, with more recoil but not bad in.38 special.
Lot more recoil if 357.

At low velocity it depends on the bullet weight to make the shot work.
Once referred to as "E.St.Louis Police Load."
They were all excellent shots when I was a kid.
You never ran from the Policeman when he said HALT!
People who tried, only tried once.
Those 200 grainers drop like a lead balloon.Only for close range and you need a lot of practice to really be effective . IMHO.

With the lighter bullets you get more blast and muzzle flash at night.
Maybe more encounters after dark.

[tazman]

Once there was a 200 grain load called police load in .38 special.
Reportedly a fleeing perpetrator was shot in the back pocket area and the pelvis would break bringing down the man.
Also in the 40's and 50's they wore their pants higher.
The hip hop crowd of the times.
I loaded some and shot them.
Low velocity, with more recoil but not bad in.38 special.
Lot more recoil if 357.

zAt low velocity it depends on the bullet weight to make the shot work.

That load combination was reported to tumble on impact because it was bordering on unstable at 38 Special velocities. I don't know if the tumble effect could be made consistent or not.

[Good Cheer]

I want to trim back some .41 cases and load the old #410426 for a snubby to see if it tumbles.
But about .38 Specials can you beat a medium weight wadcutter loaded out to avoid taking up too much powder space? It isn't sexy and the front half of the boolit might have to be sized .356 to slip up into the chamber throats. A little extra work but how many critter loads do you use up?

[3006guns]

I have an answer, reserved for those self appointed "experts" that loudly pronounce lead boolits as underpowered, dirty old things that will ruin barrels. I verbally challenge them (in front of other witnesses at the range) to walk out on the range about twenty yards. I will then offer to shoot them in one thigh with a factory round and the other thigh with one of my reloads....then yell back and tell us which hurts worse.

I've never had that challenge accepted for the simple reason that no one WANTS to be shot..........whether it's a high speed factory round or a .22 long rifle. A bit of metal moving along around 1000 fps is going to hurt when it contacts flesh.

The .38 Special has long been accepted as an accurate cartridge and the MINIMUM for self defense. The old .38 S&W used to hold that title until the Special eclipsed it. The Special is usually the first round a beginner reloads (including me) and will continue being popular for many years to come.

[Drm50]

Standard 158gr police load 38sp will take care of 99% of your 2 leg problems. Every no good isn’t a 300lb dropped up warrior. If he is shoot him twice.

[Gamsek]

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September 2019. Clear ballistic gel. 9mm.

Loaded 100fps slower then compared factory ammo, comparable results.

[Butzbach]

I have an answer, reserved for those self appointed "experts" that loudly pronounce lead boolits as underpowered, dirty old things that will ruin barrels. I verbally challenge them (in front of other witnesses at the range) to walk out on the range about twenty yards. I will then offer to shoot them in one thigh with a factory round and the other thigh with one of my reloads....then yell back and tell us which hurts worse.

I've never had that challenge accepted for the simple reason that no one WANTS to be shot..........whether it's a high speed factory round or a .22 long rifle. A bit of metal moving along around 1000 fps is going to hurt when it contacts flesh.

The .38 Special has long been accepted as an accurate cartridge and the MINIMUM for self defense. The old .38 S&W used to hold that title until the Special eclipsed it. The Special is usually the first round a beginner reloads (including me) and will continue being popular for many years to come.

My brother and I used a similar criteria during beer 🍺 accompanied “discussions” regarding cartridge and firearm efficacy. To wit: e.g. “Would you stand 100yds away from me and yell obscenities if I had say my scoped 2” Ruger Security Six . . . “ (note: The situation was hypothetical. The Ruger was not. This opened other discussions of course with the general theme “Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should . . . .”)

Thanks for the memory.