Problem with 30 year old brass Forming

[Big Ben]

Good Morning,

I have some 225 Winchester brass that was formed to 7mm Merrill about 30 years ago. I am trying to re-form it to 6.5 JDJ. I have annealed the cases using a LP torch spinning with my fingers for about 8 to 12 seconds each then water quenching, but that did not seem to work; still very brittle. I am getting complete neck separation when pulling the brass back through the 6.5 JDJ die (it seems to go up okay with less resistance). I have tried Imperial die wax and homebrew alcohol/lanolin lube to no avail. Should I anneal progressively longer and see if that works? Or is there a point where old brass just won't form due to age. I am not sure how many times this brass has been shot in the past. New 225 Winchester is hard to find and trying to salvage this old brass seems like the thing to do.

Thanks for your time.

[rancher1913]

if you can hold the brass with your hand wile heating it, you aint getting it hot enough.

[GARD72977]

30yrs ago it was common to clean brass in corn cob and Brasso. It will make brass brittle over time

[Big Ben]

Thanks Rancher. I will try the spin the brass with a cordless drill in a socket trick and run it a little longer/hotter.

[Big Ben]

Hey Gard, I had heard that ammonia will make brass brittle. Hopefully with a little more heat, I can salvage this project.
Thanks.

[Big Ben]

Success!! I annealed the old brass a little longer (16 seconds or so) and no separated or split necks! Before, I was experiencing a 50% failure rate. This time on my 10 case sample 0% failure. Thanks Rancher that seemed to do the trick.

I appreciate the advice.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

What I do, on brittle cases, is put them in a cake pan with water up to 1/2" - 3/4" or so from the work hardened area, heat them from straight over the top, to heat them evenly with a torch, rose bud or as wide a flame as the case, for 15-20 seconds, then tip them over in the pan of water... can do about 25 cases or so at a time, then start over with cold water... had some Hornady 460 S&W cases that were splitting at the case mouth as new, this totally solved the problem, without softening the cases too much to create pressure issues on those high pressure cases

[redhawk44]

When annealing brass cases, use a shallow pan and fill it with water up to the base of the neck on the brass. put the cases in mouth up, and use a propane torch. Heat the necks one at a time and when they are hot enough, just tip it over in the pan to quench it and continue to the next case etc etc etc. After they have all been annealed and quenched, dry thoroughly and start expanding or expanding whichever.

[zarrinvz24]

You don’t need to quench the brass. It’s not required. https://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing

[JimB..]

You don’t need to quench the brass. It’s not required. https://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing

You put them in the pan to keep from overheating the base, you tip them over because they’re wet already and it allows you to pick them up without losing your fingerprints.

[b67]

You don’t need to quench the brass. It’s not required. https://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing

Quenching the brass stops the heat from traveling any further and does actually give you slightly softer brass....My opinion is based on my own experience and no one else's....

[brass410]

This wont help but I'm celebrating and read the title and thought to myself 30year old forming brass, wait till yer 60 if ya got trouble now, cant see, cant walk to get another piece to compare, cant remember where it is anyway, a forget it, now I'm all in a dither and my prostrate just fired up gotta go pee.