Lee Liquid Alox vs wax bullet lube opinions

[wjhendo]

I've spent some time reading threads looking for an answer to my question. I'll just ask. I recently started casting and I'm trying to decide how I want to keep lubing. I blended some homemade bullet lube but we'll just assume that it's a quality lube to get to my question. Is there an advantage (like preventing leading) to using the pan lube method with a good lube as opposed to just tumbling them in Lee Liquid Alox. I have done both ways so far and have determined that the Lee Liquid Alox squirted in a bowl and tumbling them is way easier, less messy and much faster than pan lubing. But I don't know if it is as effective in preventing leading as the pan lubing with a quality lube. Any opinions as to one or the other? Thanks All.

[Bazoo]

I think what makes a difference is with traditional lubed bullets there is a lot more lube. LLA itself is probably just as effective as say 50/50 but because it's a thin layer, it doesn't lube as well. My 44 SBH leads badly with LLA bullets but with 50/50 lubed bullets the leading doesn't build up and is marginal.

50/50 is a good lube. Crayons and candles and whatever, it will work if the gun is right and the bullets fit and you don't ask magnum performance from it.

[wjhendo]

I think what makes a difference is with traditional lubed bullets there is a lot more lube. LLA itself is probably just as effective as say 50/50 but because it's a thin layer, it doesn't lube as well. My 44 SBH leads badly with LLA bullets but with 50/50 lubed bullets the leading doesn't build up and is marginal.

50/50 is a good lube. Crayons and candles and whatever, it will work if the gun is right and the bullets fit and you don't ask magnum performance from it.

Thanks for responding. I felt that there must be a reason so many traditionally lube especially when compared to LLA it's so much more time consuming.

[P Flados]

Early on (before PC) I never got round to acquiring a lube sizer.

I used LLA and I messed around with pan lubing and hand lubing using my own attempt at a traditional lube.

The home brew traditional lube worked ok, but really not much better than LLA for preventing leading.

Then I tried powder coat (ASBB - HF red). It was all the answer I needed for any load needing a better "lube".

About the same time. I went from LLA to BLL (LLA plus a Johnsons liquid wax). BLL worked way cleaner than straight LLA. If you can not find the right stuff to make BLL, white label lube sells a tumble lube (45-45-10) that is reportedly about as good.

I ended up with BLL for lighter loads and powder coat for stouter loads. The tumble lube is much easier, but can only be pushed so far. The powder coat seems to work for any power level.

I still do not have a lube sizer and have no plans to get one.

[GhostHawk]

I have for higher speed rifle bullets filled grooves with Ben's Red.

Then gave them a single coat of BLL to put a hard shell on them. Keep foreign matter out of the lube.

Mostly these days everything gets 2 or 3 light coats of BLL and I call it good. No problems, no leading and it drys in less than an hour. Half that if you point a small fan at them.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I would keep doing the tumble lube, then when you have a problem like lead fouling, and the usual reasons for lead fouling have been addressed and you still have lead fouling, then I would try traditional lube. It's pretty rare that lead fouling is caused by the lube not doing it's job, but yes, that is possible.

Now, Lube does other things besides failing to prevent lead fouling. Lube can effect accuracy, both positively or negatively.

For more about Lube, this thread offers lots of things to think about.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?148746-quot-Extreme-quot-boolit-lube-The-Quest

[uscra112]

Tumble lubing is a lot cleaner if you dump the bullets and the LLA into a ziplock bag, and knead the bag to distribute the lube. Save the bag for the next batch.

This also works for case lube.

[Bazoo]

I tumble lube in a ziploc bag myself. So so easy. And it coats them very thoroughly.

[Prairie Cowboy]

I don't have much experience using LLA but I did use it on the Lee .357 tumble lube SWC bullet (hard cast) with good results at moderate velocity in my Blackhawk revolver. It's been criticized for being sticky and messy to handle the bullets, but I noticed that some bullets that I stored in a sealed cottage cheese tub for a year (clean) resulted in the Alox drying to a more waxy texture that is difficult to wipe off. It seems superior to the freshly lubed and dried LLA. I'm going to try these in my carbine and see how well they work.

When I started out I pan lubed exclusively using the basic old beeswax, paraffin, and vaseline lube recipe for a few years.
Pan lubing using a kake Kutter to remove the bullets is messy but it works.

Using scrap wheel weights mixed 50/50 with .22 rimfire indoor range lead, I never had any leading at all in .45 ACP, .455 Webley, and .45 Colt at 800-850 FPS velocities.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that more lube is better than less lube. And, conventional cast bullets with deeper and wider grooves that are filled with lube are less likely to lead.

[GregLaROCHE]

LLA has worked well for me with 6.5mm boolits with gas checks. I coated the boolits before and after applying the GCs. I think the GCs played a big part in preventing leading. When I get back to shooting that caliber, I plan to use 50% Johnson’s paste wax with LLA.

If you want to use traditional wax type lubes, be sure the boolit has big enough lube grooves. It looks like a lot of boolits today, especially bore riding types, have very small lube grooves designed for LLA type lubes.

Then there’s always powder coating. It’s hard to beat.

[GregLaROCHE]

To clarify my last comment, when I said 50% paste wax, I should have said 45/45/10 that includes a bit of mineral spirits.

[RU shooter]

I started out in this game with the same questions the OP is asking , here's what I've been doing since day one , all of my handgun bullets just get a coat or two of LLA or BLL these day that's 45 acp and 38/357 at normal speeds no matter what design the bullet is TL or regular ,rifle bullets if low to mid vel I just do the LLA up to say 1500 fps above that I pan lube them with regular lube usually one of Lars lubes he sells .

[Jim22]

I am interested in opinions from members. Lee Liquid Alox is effective at eliminating bore leading up to what velocity with plain base bullets? How much velocity with copper gas checks? All with 90-5-5 alloy?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I am interested in opinions from members. Lee Liquid Alox is effective at eliminating bore leading up to what velocity with plain base bullets? How much velocity with copper gas checks? All with 90-5-5 alloy?

Jim,
Most Lead fouling is caused by undersized boolits. LLA will not eliminate that.

Now, I've found LLA will stop doing it's job at a point (with correct sized boolits), but that point depends on the type of Gun.

Rifle:
I would stick to slower velocities, 1200 to 1600.

Pistol, revolver:
I'd use it with low pressure loads, below 25Kpsi

Pistol, Semiauto:
9 and 40 are just too high pressure for LLA, IMHO.
45acp should work just fine.

That's my 2¢

[trapper9260]

I use the old NRA lube with ATF and do not have problems ,I use it for rifle and hand gun. I use the Alox mix with lighter fluid for when I load 00 buck shot for my 30 cal's or 32 cal's after I size them.

[P Flados]

JonB's advice runs pretty close to my experiences except that I do not use BLL for rifle and the max revolver loads that I can get to work with BLL may be a little milder.

For a given gun, I frequently try BLL and push it as hard as possible to find the limit. Then I back off some to make sure there is zero leading.

Above the limit, I use ASBB HF Red PC.

The PC is more work, so I try to maximize the use of BLL.

I shoot lots of boolits both ways.

[popper]

I tried 2x BLL in 30/30 and BO for HV PB loads. Found it didn't work UNLESS a GC was used. Tried hard and soft alloy, still need the GC. Without, enough blow by to wipe the BLL off the bullet (slick sided mould). 1700 fps seemed to be the limit. PC PB from the BO goes 2100 fps, no problem.

[Jim22]

OK, I just bought a used Lyman 45 lube sizer and have ordered dies and top punches for it as well as some lube. I ordered some sticks of SPG and some Lyman green. I will be using in rifles: a Henry SS .357 MAX 22" bbl., and a .375 JDJ. custom on a Ruger No. 3. Bullets will be Lee 200 gr .358 FP and .375 250 gr FP - both gas checks. I have found Hornady .358 gas checks but am waiting for the .375. I am hoping to achieve 2,000 fps with both. Will I be well served with the lubes specified and Rotometal 90-5-5 alloy? I have some linotype but don't want to make the boolits too hard for hunting. Suggestions?