One powder for functioning M1A and M1 Garand loads?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Looking to buy 8lbs to feed both. No filler required would be a huge plus. I'm open to a currently available surplus powder if it makes sense financially. The Lee 170gr shoots well in both with 2400 powder, so I'd probably try to stick with it with the slower powder. I can cast them out of wheel weights plus lino if needed. I'm currently powdercoating. 2ish MOA is my goal, as they will both do it with the 2400 loads.

[Winger Ed.]

Keep an eye on Bartlet's page.
He's the 900 pound gorilla for surplus powder.

For cast/practice loads, check out 'the load' with Red Dot.
My Garand is gone, and haven't tried it in the M1A, but love it for the Rem 700.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Keep an eye on Bartlet's page.
He's the 900 pound gorilla for surplus powder.

For cast/practice loads, check out 'the load' with Red Dot.
My Garand is gone, and haven't tried it in the M1A, but love it for the Rem 700.

Thanks Ed. I'm a big fan of the The Load, but looking for something that will cycle. I will check out Barletts.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I do not shoot cast in my M1 or M1A. I use 4895, H or IMR loads in both, and prefer IMR.

[Ford SD]

Looking to buy 8lbs to feed both. No filler required would be a huge plus. I'm open to a currently available surplus powder if it makes sense financially. The Lee 170gr shoots well in both with 2400 powder, so I'd probably try to stick with it with the slower powder. I can cast them out of wheel weights plus lino if needed. I'm currently powdercoating. 2ish MOA is my goal, as they will both do it with the 2400 loads.


??? Do they function 100% with 2400 ???

I know IMR & H 4985 will function with cast and jacket in the 308 & 3006

for 308 Loads read Bruce B write Up ... Every time you shoot Cast after reading his write up he looks down and Smiles :-D

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?3558-7-62x51-NATO-(-308-WCF)-in-the-Springfield-M1A

[charlie b]

I load for my .308 bolt and Garand. Cast and jacketed.

Lots of powders will work. I'd find a powder that cycles the Garand (and does not endanger the operating rod :) ), and then work up a load for the M1A with that powder.

4198 is a little on the fast side, but, does well with cast in my .308. It seems to do best in the 1700-1800fps range. Have not tried it in the Garand. Have not used it with jacketed.

3031 does ok with cast in both at velocities closer to 2000fps. I think it needs a filler to work better. It should do ok with jacketed in both as well.

4166 worked nicely with 165gn and 210gn cast in the Garand. Also is good for jacketed in the .308. Have not tried it with cast in the .308 but have no doubts it would do well. It is similar in performance to 4064.

Varget is my go to powder for the .308. Works both with cast and jacketed. Cast loads work well even as low as 1600fps. Have not tried it in the Garand.

Note that the powders above cover a wide range of burn rates. I'd take most any extruded powder in that range and try it. Ball powders might work ok too, if the one you have tolerates reduced charges for the cast bullets.

[savagetactical]

I only use two powders for 308 and 30-06

2400 and IMR 4064 all my needs can be easily met with these two powders on hand.

[ShooterAZ]

H4895, IMR4895 and IMR4064 will all get it done with a Garand or M1A, sometimes with the use of a filler. 200 grain boolits work best in the Garand in my experience. The M1A is a little bit more forgiving and some guys use slower powders (think IMR4831), but I'll stick with what I know works for me.

[Outpost75]

RL15 or Varget are also good choices for the M14, M1A and Garand. About 30 grains in 7.62/.308 with 1 grain loose Dacron fill tucked into the neck, NOT pushed down upon the powder, with cast to function, and 36 grains in the '06 with Accurate 31-160H or similar bullet cast 15-16 BHN and sized .311" with 50-50 Alox-beeswax.

Approximates .30-30 energy with reliable cycling. Good accuracy better than Ball ammo to 300 yards or metres.

[flyer1]

Accurate 2520

[Outpost75]

Accurate 2520

In the 7.62/.308 in full charge loads, Yes.

In charges which occupy less than 85% of available powder space, such as in the .30'06 absolutely not!

Unless you like replacing barrels or setting them back and rechambering them to correct a "ringed" chamber.

[Kosh75287]

Check out the "60% Rule" concerning Hodgdon H4895 propellant, can cast bullet loads. It gives you quite a bit of flexibility with reduced loads.

[charlie b]

Or look up the Lyman Cast Bullet manual for a lot of reduced loads with different powders.

[RU shooter]

4895, RE15, Varget heck I even did well with some pulled CZ silver tip 54R powder was similar in burn speed to the three I listed .

[AlaskaMike]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the BruceB M1A/Garand thread. There's a reason it's a sticky in the CB Loads / Miltary Rifles forum. Tons of great info about shooting cast loads in the M1A and Garand which also function the action.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?3558-7-62x51-NATO-(-308-WCF)-in-the-Springfield-M1A

What Bruce ended up settling on was using powders like 4831 and 4350 which are normally considered too slow for typical jacketed bullet loads. He found that when using typical powders like 4895, when he dropped the charge to slow down the velocity to the range he wanted for his cast loads, the gas pressure at the port also dropped to the point where the action didn't function well, or at all. So he tried slower powders that would raise the port pressure back up to good functioning levels, but also keep the velocity in the range he wanted.

That thread should be required reading for anyone shooting cast loads in the M1A or Garand.

[Castaway]

The standard for Garands’ was 50 grains of IMR 4895 for the M2 ball round. With the 7.62 NATO Match round it was 44 grains of IMR 4895 under a 172 grain bullet

[Outpost75]

The standard for Garands’ was 50 grains of IMR 4895 for the M2 ball round. With the 7.62 NATO Match round it was 44 grains of IMR 4895 under a 172 grain bullet

44 grains of currently-produced IMR4895 is an extreme overload and DANGEROUS in .308/7.62mm with a 172-grain bullet!

It is correct for the .30-'06.

A charge of 40.5 to 41 grains of current IMR product is Max. in LC M118LR cases with WLR or Federal 210M with M72/M118 pulls or the Sierra 175 MK.

The 44 grain charge is only appropriate for non-canister, military-grade IMR4895 produced prior to 1976.

[mac1911]

I gave up on my cast loads in my M1 and M1a , once I was able to get 100% cycle with H4895 and 5477 Accuracy declined.
Those are the only 2 powders I tried to get function and accuracy. Accuracy was good with 2400, trailboss.
bullets tried , Lee 170s , Lyman 314299 sized to .310 --best non functioning accuracy was a Flat nose 160 grain TL design from RanchDog

Maybe a like new gas system and some worn springs would help?

[Castaway]

Outpost, as you pointed out, I appreciate the warning. I certainly wouldn’t want anyone to endanger themselves, others, or their rifles. Data came from Army TM 43-0001-27, dated April, 94, with change 2, Dec, 96. This is in line with the Hodgdon manual for IMR 4895.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Thanks for all the replies. Keep them coming!

[Outpost75]

Outpost, as you pointed out, I appreciate the warning. I certainly wouldn’t want anyone to endanger themselves, others, or their rifles. Data came from Army TM 43-0001-27, dated April, 94, with change 2, Dec, 96. This is in line with the Hodgdon manual for IMR 4895.

Does not agree with pressure test data conducted by William C.Davis, Jr. for NRA in the 1980s, or with Camp Perry experience during same period with broken right locking lugs on TRW M14 bolts. Larry Gibson may have further info.

[Castaway]

Can’t answer to that. Last thing I want is a conflict, but the TM data is within Hodgdon book, although at max end. Good case for starting low and working up

[AlaskaMike]

I gave up on my cast loads in my M1 and M1a , once I was able to get 100% cycle with H4895 and 5477 Accuracy declined.
Those are the only 2 powders I tried to get function and accuracy. Accuracy was good with 2400, trailboss.
bullets tried , Lee 170s , Lyman 314299 sized to .310 --best non functioning accuracy was a Flat nose 160 grain TL design from RanchDog

Maybe a like new gas system and some worn springs would help?


I think you've probably discovered why many of us use slower powders like 4831 and 4350 with cast loads. See my earlier post about the sticky thread.

[dale2242]

I have found 32-34 gr of IMR4895 or IMR4064 to be very accurate in my M1.
I add 1gr of Dacron filler.
I get 100% function with bullets in the 170 gr range.

[Petrol & Powder]

For 308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) I landed on IMR 4895 years ago and saw no reason to look further. It consistently produced excellent results.

I've had people swear to me that 748 is better but it produced larger groups (not by much but larger) than 4895.

In the smaller caliber cartridges based on the 308, such as the 7mm-08 and 243 Win., I switch to IMR4064. I could probably use 4064 in 308 if needed.

[dogmower]

I use a 200 grain boolit in the garand, pc and sized .311 over 35 imr 4895, 34 aa2460 or 32 of shooters world Buffalo
All shoot to the same point of aim, are accurate, and cycle 100%

[relics6165]

Silvercreek:

27 grains Accurate Arms 5744 with a 155 or 168 Matchking or Custom Competition will almost cycle a Garand, a few more surely would. AA5744 can also be found as Shooters World Buffalo Rifle, at a much lower price (if you can find any...........).

IMR or H4895 can be reduced to a point where a Garand won't cycle, then increased just enough to assure reliable cycling. Loads can easily and safely reduced to 60% of full loads.

This is for 30-06 only, but the same idea applies for 308/7.62.

[Lloyd Smale]

4895 is THE 308 powder. I try all the new wiz bang powders but keep going back to it. With pc you dont have to download near as much if any with a hard bullet. but if your chasing jacketed accuracy and running your action. Good luck, youll need it.

[dale2242]

I get jacketed "read ball ammo type loads here" accuracy with my cast loads.

[iron brigade]

273511

Here's a group I shot with my M1 @100 yards
34 grains of imr 4895 and a 165 silhouette bullet
I only load six rounds in the clip. The m1 is quite capable of good accuracy.

[fatelvis]

36 grains of H4895 under any 180-200gen GC bullet will cycle both my Garand's actions, and will be mild and accurate at 100 yds.

[cvn 71]

i have been following this thread because i have the same question except i have a308 garand and ar 10 i am looking for a load for.i am trying to stay with imr 4895 and a 311299 since that is what i use in my 06 garands.not too concerned with the ar10.i wasnt sure how much different the m1a and the 308 garand operating systems are.anyone have a good starting load?

[fatelvis]

i have been following this thread because i have the same question except i have a308 garand and ar 10 i am looking for a load for.i am trying to stay with imr 4895 and a 311299 since that is what i use in my 06 garands.not too concerned with the ar10.i wasnt sure how much different the m1a and the 308 garand operating systems are.anyone have a good starting load?

My load for Garands is 36.0 H4895 under a 311299. In your 308, I would start with 34.0 grns, and if it doesnt function your action, keep bumping up.5 or one grain until it functions 100%.

[cvn 71]

My load for Garands is 36.0 H4895 under a 311299. In your 308, I would start with 34.0 grns, and if it doesnt function your action, keep bumping up.5 or one grain until it functions 100%.

that sounds like a good place to start.looking at the lyman manual that looks safe.i probably would have picked a low starting charge and went with that but its always nice to get a second opinion!