Mag Spark nipple query

[Byrd]

Yesterday I was given 1300 #209 shotgun primers! Since I don't load for shotgun I am thinking about purchasing a Mag spark nipple for my TC muzzies to put them to good use. Can anyone give any feedback on these, pro or con? I'd appreciate it!

[charlie b]

The MagSpark systems that I have seen use rifle primers, not 209.

[Nueces]

The MagSpark nipples available from Warren Custom Outdoor use 209 primers. I just got a set but have not installed it yet. I like that the 209s are easier to handle and there are cap magazines and loaders for them. And, the flange makes removal easier after firing.

[Byrd]

I didn't know you could get loaders for them. That would sure make them more attractive! The ones I'm looking at are from Warren Customs as well.

[oldracer]

The 209 gives a much hotter spark than the #11 percussion cap so watch your load. I use them on several rifles and have a short piece of drill bit sized to the ID of the lower adapter part to clean out soot. I also wet each 209 primer well so they will come out easier. I use some high temp Teflon tape on the adapter threads to give a good seal and finally don't ever dry fire one as the little striker in the cap can be bent.

These were used starting in the 1890s according to Ned Roberts in his book.
John

[Nueces]

I didn't know you could get loaders for them.

The loaders are generally marketed to the inline muzzleloaders and are built much like the straight cap magazines for percussion caps. Some examples are:

https://www.buffaloarms.com/ted-cash-209-primer-in-line-capper-tdcsl209
https://www.amazon.com/UView-Thompson-Center-Primer-7219/dp/B000HE8D8A

Traditions has one much like the Ted Cash. Here's an interesting variation, combines a capper and removal tool:

https://dnwoutdoors.com/capper-extractor-tool-for-209-primers/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3pWwi4Oh7QIVpuHACh1okwBNEAQYByA BEgKPI_D_BwE

[Byrd]

Thanks for the tips! I guessed they'd burn hotter than regular caps. When I get mine in I'll drop the load a few grains to see how my rifle performs. Last outing I tried 777 for the first time and it's noticeably hotter than Pyrodex of black. Using 45 grains in my Pedersoli .45 it shot high. It'll be a great experiment!

[RU shooter]

This sounds like a good idea in my state since it's always been a flintlock only state till recent years they allow inlines and percussion in the early season . I know caps are almost non existent 209's are fairly common at shops . Question are these mag spark sit at the same height as a regular nipple and cap arrangement or do you need to alter your hammer geometry for it to hit square on it ?

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Byrd,

I have the Mag Spark setup for both a TC Hawken & Lyman Great Plains Hunter.
I have never used them, purchased them for a just in case situation.
For the Lyman I needed to shave the Hammer by 0.150", otherwise 1/2 Cock was sitting on the firing pin.
I simply ordered a replacement Hammer from Lyman & cut it down.
For the TC, it's just plug & play. I would suggest if your using for hunting, to purchase an extra firing pin cap.
I can see it dropping in the grass and not being able to find it.
I also noticed some Primers were very tight, so I built a little sizing die to size the primers.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Nobade]

A couple tips. Use anti-sieze on the threads going into the rifle, so it is easily removable. The wrench it needs is very small and easily stripped. Use grease or bullet lube on the threads of the cap every time so you can get it apart after the shot. Use lube on the primer so you can get it out after the shot. Carry small pliers and a knife or screwdriver so you can get the primer out afterward. Don't expect accuracy as good as you get with caps. The primer blast is strong enough to blow the bullet forward and change the way the powder burns somehow, I have never seen comparable accuracy using these. They are great for heavy charges and bullets. Where you would normally be burning out nipples in short order, these hold up. They are a pain to use, but do work and if you can't get caps are a viable way to continue shooting.

[Byrd]

Thank you for the tips. I can see that the hotter blast from the #209 would force the PRB forward. I'm asking about these because a friend gave me 1300 #209 primers and my first thought was that I'd heard of a replacement nipple that uses them! Jackpot!

I'll be using them in a Pedersoli .45 and a TC Hawken in .50 and a Renegade in .54. I just had the Pedersoli on it's first outing and it proved to be very accurate. I'm interested to see how hotter caps will affect that.

[oldracer]

One other item I forget to mention, is to check the face of the hammer (cock) to make sure it is flat and not one of the ones with a depression deep enough such that the little striker will not get hit. I use spit on the primer just before I put it in the adapter so it comes out easier. Make sure the 209 primer seats all the way in otherwise there will not be enough force to fire the load. If I remember correctly, the top of the plunger does stick up higher than a #11 nipple and cap. I usually also wiggle the cap to make sure the plunger is free before I screw it onto the body otherwise a non fire can occur.

The two rifles I use that were designed for these adapters have a very small vent just forward of the adapter hole so some of the pressure is vented as noted there could be a case of the round ball or bullet jumping premature.
John

[arcticap]

I'm interested to see how hotter caps will affect that.

209 primers are not all the same.
This NAML 209 primer strength test ranks them according to the amount of hot gases that each produces.--->>> http://www.namlhunt.com/mlprimers.html

If a person did a Google search, they'll find that each brand of 209's have slightly different dimensions.
Some of the folks on modern muzzle loading websites post detailed width & length measurements which helps folks determine which 209's to use with their inline breech plugs.

[LoveND]

All I’ve ever used is mag spark nipples on my side locks. Will use nothing else. As to a nipple that uses a large rifle primer has not been made for years. If you can find one that fits your side lock hang on to it and use it.

[Byrd]

I ordered one today and already got a shipping notice so I'll be able to try it out soon. I appreciate the tips. I was tickled to get these primers and be able to use them since caps are kinda scarce now.

[Edward]

The MagSpark systems that I have seen use rifle primers, not 209.

Mag spark uses shot gun 209 primers ,last count I now have 9 on sidelocks .I use CCI/Feds/Win /whatever ,they all work great/Ed

[AntiqueSledMan]

Oldracer,

"One other item I forget to mention, is to check the face of the hammer (cock) to make sure it is flat and not one of the ones with a depression deep enough such that the little striker will not get hit."

I re-checked what I had done with the Lyman Hammer,
I punched the pocket 0.200" deeper, then removed 0.150" off the end.
So I ended up with a deeper pocket, but still had to remove material off end of hammer.
I don't know if all Lyman's would need this mod or not, but mine did.

AntiqueSledMan.

[lead chucker]

I use cci 209 with my Hawken 54 and works great just ordered 2 more mag sparks today from Warren, he said he had lots in stock. Just put another TC Hawken 50 kit together last weekend. Going to shoot it this weekend. One thing about the mag spark is that it always goes off. I live in a remote part of Alaska and caps are hard to come by but 209 primers are a lot more available and make the gun more reliable in the rain. Good to have a mag spark in the que if you cant get caps.

[Byrd]

I got mine in and installed on my Pedersoli .45. I'm impressed with the workmanship. I've got 4lbs. of 3f coming and can't wait to try it out. It gets good reviews everywhere. Hopefully this week!

[cas]

I've had the older pistol primer style for about 30 years. A love / hate relationship. I hated fiddling with them and trying to get the fired primers out, but we were using them on a couple CVA sidelocks with Pyrodex, and the pistol primers were the only thing that would make them fire reliably. (on one it was the only thing that would make it fire period)

I ordered a newer one for my New Englander last week. Since I went to real BP years back, reliability isn't a big issue anymore. But I thought it would be nice for rainy/wet snowy hunts. Just some insurance. I know how very powerful 210 primers can be and have been wondering about the blast. Thinking I might experiment with muting the flash like I do on my BPCR loads. Perhaps some tissue paper and some crazy glue. Maybe just hole punches of painters tape over the end of the primer.

[cas]

It showed up yesterday and I played with it a bit, with some 25+ year old primers and some masking tape. One layer of tape over the blast end of the primer, still LOTS of blast coming out the muzzle. So I tried two layers, three layers and finally four layers of masking tape. Still plenty of blast, can't really say about the actual flame. The odd thing is I kept thinking "where is the tape going!?!" It clearly wasn't under the primer after it was fired. How could four layers of tape get blown through that little flash hole? Unless it's just burning up. It will be quite some time before I get to try it with an actual powder charge though.

[Byrd]

I got mine installed and have to say I'm impressed with the workmanship. It'll be a bit before I can test it out. I'm going to try it with FFF Goex, Pyrodex and 777. If it produced a flash like that it'll sure enough light the powder. My first thought on reading your post was to wonder if it'd have enough power to blast out a dry ball! Hope I don't have to try that.

[Edward]

All I’ve ever used is mag spark nipples on my side locks. Will use nothing else. As to a nipple that uses a large rifle primer has not been made for years. If you can find one that fits your side lock hang on to it and use it.

johnson 1942 (Banned)/Roger glad to see your back in the good graces of managment ! You still shooting one holers?/Ed

[OverMax]

I have Mag Sparks installed on 3-54s and 1-58 cal. Mag Sparks? "Never have to worry about a unexpected lost cap." As far as ignition intensity. Depending on who's 209 brand you use? As far as what I think? The 209 primers I use. About the same ignition as a hot musket cap. The one guarantee 209 caps do. There are no disappointments in touching off substitute powders in side-locks.

[fixit]

If you want to reduce the power of the primer in the mag spark, consider reloading fired primers. The shotgun primer cup on most brands is the size of a large rifle/pistol primer and they can be reloaded with them. Not necessarily a great option, with the shortages currently, but it will reduce the blast given by the primer.

[oldracer]

Hey Roger glad to see you are still alive and kicking! I still have the muzzle loader you built and it still uses the MagSpark adapter with great success. I wrap the adapter threads with high temp pipe tape as told and wet the 209 primer with some spit before inserting it and so far have used that rifle to win the "medallion" match each year since I got the rifle. I do have a cut off peace of drill bit that I use to clean the inside of the female part of the adapter after each shot. I also use the MagSpark on a slug gun under hammer I built several years ago with great success.
John

[LoveND]

I missed both of you guys, went through a bought of cancer. Seems to be gone away. Hope it stays that way. I remember the guns i sold both of you. They were honeys. I hope they let me stay here as it is a fun site i like to share info with. The last rifle i last built was a rock lock for a Texas shooter, then i got cancer. He loved it so much that he added 100 dollars on to the price i asked for building it. He said I didn’t ask enough for it. He got a deer the first day it got to him. I didn’t refuse the extra money. I loved the wood work on both your rifles. They are shooters and eye catchers. Thanks for remembering me. It’s been a tough last 15 months.

[oldracer]

Well glad you made it through the cancer. I am on my third bout with it, first was a spot on my right forehead but it had spread down the right side of my face and neck so I got operated on again and two years ago had two months of radiation! Then a PET scan done in April showed a inch and a half spot at the top of my left lung. A follow on scan in May showed it was slightly larger so I am currently on an immuno-therapy drug called Libtayo and this has killed off the cancer the October scan showed but I get another scan in two weeks. This is not real great but way better than radiation and I can still go shooting once a week as our range is open so far. You might want to check my posts about my too hard bullets a short while ago but with the 0.490 round balls it doesn't matter!
John

[LoveND]

When I was getting chemo their was a lady I met with your kind of cancer. She beat it. They have new treatments that work very well. As to the mag spark,glad they are still available.

[cas]

I've had the older pistol primer style for about 30 years.

Stumbling across them for sale today and recognizing the packaging (which is amazing after that long), they were "Mag-Spark"s, but rather "Accra Shot" ones. Same thing though.

[retrieverman]

I have Mag Sparks on my new to me TC Cougar and Traditions Deerhunter, and they’ve worked great so far.

[lead chucker]

If you have a side lock get a mag spark. It gives you more versatility if caps are hard to get.

[lead chucker]

where i live 209's are cheaper that caps