223 to 222...

[BCB]

In Ken Water’s Pet Loads, he indicates that with just a stroke of the press, a 223 case can be turned into a 222 case!

Well, I have tried it and I have even annealed the 223 cases. I get wrinkles in the shoulder of the formed 223 to 222 case. Some of the wrinkles might disappear upon firing them, but they might be deep enough to cause the case to split at that place.

I have a success rate of about 20%, which ain’t too good! I even tried screwing the 222 die back a bit so it wasn’t touching the shell holder at the end of the press stroke.

Any hints or thoughts on how to do this? Thanks…BCB

[anachronism]

What kind of case lube are you using?

[BCB]

anachronism,
I am hitting with a light coating of Lyman spray lube. I figured too much lube will cause case dents even when sizing the proper case in the proper die. Thusly, the light coat of spray lube...BCB

[klausg]

BCB-
Pull the expander ball/decapping stem assembly out of your die then size. You'll have to size again with it in place to expand the neck back out; then trim to length. Depending on the brass and your chamber, you may have to turn the necks.

-Klaus

[felix]

Lanolin cut with baby oil, using only the amount of lanolin necessary, and apply only to the BASE of the case (no more than 50 percent of the case). Wipe almost dry, using paper towel on up the case. but not past the shoulder (not ever). Neck should be absolutely dry. Cases do NOT been to be annealed. On first case, cut neck off to correct amount, and crank into the gun. Repeat until bolt closes appropriately, but resizing that case continually down more into the shell holder. I done at least 300 rounds with zero creeks and rivers and with perfect necks. Make the necks round by expanding from top, and neck turn if required. 0.001 neck clearance with loaded round is right on. ... felix

[skeet1]

Imperial Sizing Die Wax will work and most other sizing lubes. It sounds like you are using too much lube on the neck and shoulder. With Imperial I just use the bare minimum and no dents.

Skeet1

[runfiverun]

i also would full length size in the 223 die first without the ball expander then the 222 die.

[Heavy lead]

In Ken Water’s Pet Loads, he indicates that with just a stroke of the press, a 223 case can be turned into a 222 case!

Well, I have tried it and I have even annealed the 223 cases. I get wrinkles in the shoulder of the formed 223 to 222 case. Some of the wrinkles might disappear upon firing them, but they might be deep enough to cause the case to split at that place.

I have a success rate of about 20%, which ain’t too good! I even tried screwing the 222 die back a bit so it wasn’t touching the shell holder at the end of the press stroke.

Any hints or thoughts on how to do this? Thanks…BCB

Me too, I gave up.

[Bad Water Bill]

Two years ago when every one left their brass at the range I collected over 1K of R P brass and it became 222 cartridges using Imperial. One swipe across the wax did 10 cases and no defects. Also made 221 Fireball the same way. It lubricates further than you would think. Do not forget to put a little lube on the expander from time to time. It will tell you when.

[biggome]

I didn't have much luck doing this conversion. When using a FL sizing die with the guts removed the brass wanted to shave in the little vent hole in the die. I later got a RCBS trim die that didn't work much better leaving wrinkles or getting stuck though I didn't have the Imperial wax.

Even though the 223 brass was free, the trouble of annealing, sizing, and sizing again, trimming and champhering only to end up with brass that often failed and had less powder capacity then 222 brass led me to gave up.

I bought a bunch of pretty plated brass and a Lee collet sizing die and never looked back.

Paul

[Bent Ramrod]

Imperial wax is in a class by itself for case forming. Just enough to make the case feel slightly slippery is plenty for even extreme size changes. Put a tiny amount on the expander ball also. I recently ran 40 Norma .30-30 cases through my dies to form a .219 Wasp variant and didn't see a single lube dent and didn't spoil a case.

How did you anneal? I annealed the above shells just enough so the bluish discoloration ran down to the area where the new shoulder would form. The one time I tried to heat brass red-hot, it wound up too weak, and would crush in the dies as readily as it would form properly.

[shotman]

are you useing military brass? It is alittle thicker most of the time

[felix]

And, some of it is THINNER than commercial. The military honchos do not sue their suppliers nearly often enough, in my opinion. ... felix

[runfiverun]

yes it is i found that out when i reduced a load by 10% to start out and my velocity with a 50 grn bullet was only 2650.
that was a ???????tf moment.

[Bullshop Junior]

When you form, DO NOT lube the part of the case that you are forming. lube the bottom part of the case but not from where the new shoulder will be up.
Hope that helps!
BIC/Daniel/BS Jr.

[Bullshop Junior]

also use bullshop case sizing lube(works like a charm)
BIC/Daniel/BS Jr.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive use imperial sizing wax and anhydrous lanolin. I believe there one in the same differing only in price. Either way in my opinion its the best case lube you can get.

[BCB]

Thanks to all who replied...

I kept seeing the word "Imperial" and it dawned on me that I have some Imperial Dry Neck Lube from, maybe 30 years ago! Yep, my reloading bench and shelves are organized enough that I was able to find it!

I dipped the neck/shoulder area in this dang messy and dirty graphite (?) powder, and the rest is history!

I could size them from 223 to 222 with a stroke of the press arm--No annealing needed...

Sometimes the answers are right under our own noses (Although, with a little help from the Cast Boolit people)...BCB

[testhop]

i have been useing 223 sized down to 222 here is how i did it i was given a old 222
sizing die that was gauld at the shoulder so i movedthe sholder back (I FOR GOT HOW MUCH)
but it was try and errow till it worked
another thingyou might try is to back your sizing die and drop downa little at a time i dont
know if it will work but i belive it will

[1hole]

When reforming cases there are two critical things to understand.

First is that a quality lube is mandatory. That isn't found in any spray lube I know of. Imperial Die Wax, lanolin and Lee's lube are very good. I perfer the WAX. And do lube the original neck and shoulder before you reform or you will get galling in the die.

Second is to anneal before reforming. But, annealing done wrong is no better than not annealing. DON'T heat any part of a case to a visibly red glow! Aim your torch at the neck/shoulder junction and twirl the case until you see that blush of blue spread down the shoulder just a bit. Immediately drop the annealed case in a bucket of water to stop the spread of heat down the case wall.

Removing the decap/expanding spindle from the die will do absolutely nothing to reduce any reforming buckles or wrinkles. The expander button only contacts the neck during extraction and any neck defects have already formed at that time. The necks WILL be thicker after any amount of shoulder set back so lubing inside the necks first is important for easier/smoother extraction.

[badbob454]

sounds like it would be easier to re chamber your gun , i dent the sholders of my 223 i need to try no lube on the shoulder idea

[deltaenterprizes]

I have a die made by RCBS that is an intermediate die to make 222 brass from 223. It steps the shoulder back to about 6mm so that there not as much sizing to do when bring the neck down to 22 cal.