Heavy 32 ACP load chronograph data

[Led]

This is one of Outpost75's heavy 32 acp loads.

My version is with a Rimrock 78g HCRN at .313 (Only size they had in stock) with 6.0 plus or minus .1 of 2400 in mixed brass with Win match small pistol primers (All I have in stock atm). I was shooting for 5.9g per Outpost75's data but the powder thrower was being difficult. The powder charge was compressed but the rounds didn't grow before crimping. I let them sit overnight to test this.

First gun tested is a surplus Beretta 81BB. Interestingly the 81 and 84 are identical except for the mag and barrel. I have a .380 barrel for this weapon and routinely shoot .380. The recoil spring part number is the same for either the 81 or 84.

10 round string yielded the following:

Ave velocity: 1071 ft/s, SD 24 ft/s, Average Power factor of 83, Energy is 198 Ft/Lbs.

Other strings with this gun and load yielded similar results. There were no issues with the load in this weapon. Cycling was good, feeding was good and I noted no issues with the fired cases. All cases I tested would slide back into the chamber once I cleaned the barrel and the case heads did not expand based on pre and post measurements. All brass was once fired factory, there were three brands, PPU, Aguila and R-P.

Second gun was a nearly new Beretta Tomcat. This is one of the current production guns from the TN factory. Before anyone jumps in, I have read Outpost75's warnings about the heavy loads and the Tomcat. This was for testing and I don't plan on shooting many of these from that gun.

In the 3032 Tomcat a 10 round string yielded:

Ave velocity: 955 ft/s, SD 15 ft/s, APF of 74, Energy is 158 Ft/Lbs.

I also tested the PPU 71 grain ball load.

Beretta 81, AV: 876 ft/s , SD 24 ft/s, APF 63, Energy is 124 Ft/Lbs.

Beretta Tomcat, AV: 828 ft/s, SD 34 ft/s, APF 60, Energy is 110 Ft/Lbs.

I hope this is interesting to the group.

Thanks,
Stephen

[Outpost75]

Thanks for posting. Good write-up! Bravo Zulu!

[onelight]

Very interesting , thanks for posting your results.

[Led]

I rolled up 100 more rounds last night. This time powder charge is 5.8g 2400 plus or minus .1. I figured out why my thrower is giving me fits. It's an RCBS uniflow and it has the large rotor installed. I seldom need to throw charges this small and I completely forgot there are two rotor sizes. This lot will be tested for accuracy at the local indoor range in the coming week. No chronograph data since the range is too dark for the chronograph to function.

I've been wondering if loads like this would be possible with H-110 or Blue Dot. Burn rates are similar, I'm just not sure where to start with a powder charge.

Thanks,
Stephen

[Kosh75287]

DARN IT. I KNEW I shoulda posted this earlier:
I wouldn't have thought of using 2400 in a .32 ACP, but there's no arguing with the results. I would have thought that nothing slower than Herco or maybe Blue Dot would work well.

Have you tried any heavier projectiles? I'm guessing that'd limit you to very fast-burning propellants, IF you could seat them without exceeding overall length. Even so, an 85 or 90 gr. soft-lead projectile at 750-800 f/s would make a dandy supressed "varmint removal" tool.

[Led]

I only have 78g (.313) slugs for 32. Those took some searching to find. Outpost75 has data up to 90g I believe. If I could find a source for the bullets he used I'd buy them. I'm not getting into casting my own fyi. There are already far to many iron's in fires to keep track of.

Thanks,
Stephen

[Keithdvm]

The Hornady .309 90 grain XTP can also be used. If you look through the discussions on the 32 ACP you will find the bullet listed. I do not remember where for sure. 2400 was not the powder used for the loading. This just give you another option.

Keith

[NoZombies]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I believe that Beretta has said that the 3032 should not have any ammo fired through it that produces more than 130 ft/lbs of energy. I know that a number of folks have had slides crack or break in those guns from hot loads, including some hot commercial loads.

What anyone does with their guns is their business, I'm just mentioning it since some folks have had problems.

[Led]

You are correct. I broke two blued versions in years gone by. Both developed cracked slides thanks to Corbon ammo. I consider the tomcat to be disposable, it has a finite round count. However, to me it's the best summer weight pocket carry gun anyone has come up with. I wish they'd make one with a steel frame. That would probably cure all the issues.

Thanks,
Stephen

[Led]

Accuracy test for the heavy load. This is a RimRock 78g RN, sized .313 at 22 BHN with about 6.0 plus or minus a tenth of 2400. Test gun is a surplus Beretta 81. This was shot indoors at 25 feet, standing and at a fairly quick pace. I actually shoot better groups going fast. Go figure. This load is giving accuracy as good or better than any factory FMJ load I've fired plus it makes a lot more power. I'm not the best shot but I'm really happy with this.

272503

[3leggedturtle]

Thanks fir the range report and write up.... this really makes me want to order a 18" slim tapered and lightweight barrel fir my Contender Carbine. Todd/3leg Also, i shoot revolvers mire accurately in double action than when cocking the hammer each time.

[6thtexas]

Led,

I have shot that load with Accurate mold 77B and it works well. I have gone to 3.0 Unique now. I get really close to 1000fps in my Walther PP and about 950 in my Colt Pocket model. Either load will ruin a Beretta Tomcat in short order. That 77 gr. FN bullet will certainly penetrate!

[Led]

I decided to try a different power. After doing some analysis of charge weights in different calibers I concluded that BlueDot generally loads at 75% the weight of 2400. So with the standard load of 5.9g of 2400 that would yield about 4.5g BlueDot. I backed off a bit more for safety.

4.0g BlueDot, 78g RN, WSP primers. All charges were weighed on my scale.
10 shot string, Ave velocity 1009 ft/s, ES 124 ft/s, SD 42 ft/s.

The load shot fine, no issues with the brass or anything but obviously not getting a consistent burn. The SD is too high for my taste.

The next load was a slightly reduced Outpost75 standard. This one was 5.7g 2400, 78g RN and WSP primers.

10 shot string, 1083 ft/s, ES 40 ft/s, SD 15 ft/s.
This one shot as good as the slightly heavier load from above. I think this might well become my standard heavy 32 acp load. At this charge weight the powder was just a tiny bit compressed.

I'm going to test with H110 and maybe AA#9 next. Forgot to mention, gun used for testing is a Beretta 81.

Edited to add, Rim Rock has a 100g .32 cal RNFP. I have 300 on the way in.

Later,
Stephen

[Outpost75]

Thanks for posting your Blue Dot results. Good info.

[Led]

Say hello to my little friend. That is a 100g Rim Rock RNFP 22 BHN sitting in a 32acp case. The round pictured is a dummy for testing fit. In the Beretta 81 it feeds from the magazine just fine and there is room in the mag for the nose profile. Total length was .002 longer than published 32acp maximum length. Powder types and charges are to be determined. Stay tuned.

Thanks,
Stephen

273308

[Kosh75287]

I can't WAIT to see how it performs! I'm wondering what type of propellant you're contemplating for your reloads. It'll be a challenge to balance between "slow burning" enough to keep pressures in bounds, but "energetic" enough to get you usable velocities.

[Outpost75]

Unique, Herco, Power Pistol, AutoComp all work with heavy bullets in the .32 ACP

[Led]

I've loaded 15 rounds with 4.0g of Blue Dot and 15 rounds with 4.6g of H110. Turns out 4.6g H110 is what a Lee .3cc dipper dispenses. Next good weather day I'll try these with the chronograph. I'm not expecting much from the H110 but I only have slower pistol powders and Bullseye on the shelf atm. The RimRock RNFP turns out to be about 96g on both of my scales. I need to try and find some Autocomp. I still need to load test round with 2400. According to Outpost75's data, 5.2 grains should be in the zone.


Thanks,
Stephen

[Led]

Data from the first 100g hard cast (96g actual) loads.

First the disappointment:

100g RimRock (actually 96g) RNFP, 4.6g H110, 14 round string, 691 ft/s, sd 23 ft/s, 101 ft/lbs energy

Burn was very dirty, lots of powder coming out of the barrel. It sounded like a 22. The load did function the action but ejection of the brass was very weak. The brass was landing basically at my feet.

Now for the Blue Dot load:

100g (96g actual) Rim Rock RNFP, 4.0g Blue Dot, 10 round string, 1025 ft/s average, 17 ft/s sd, 224 ft/lbs of energy !!!

Obviously this is hot. I measured the case heads before and after firing, there was no real expansion, maybe .001 but that's within the error of my calipers. Brass ejection was at my 4'oclock at about 10 feet. Fired cases dropped back into the barrel once everything was cleaned. The recoil was present for sure. Based on everything I've read that Outpost75 has posted I don't think the pressure the load is generating is a problem. The primers looked fine. My main concern is beating the gun to death. I could hear the frame ringing on firing. Test gun is a standard Beretta 81BB. These have AL frames. I'm considering picking up a CZ83 in 32 ACP to continue working with this load. CZ83's are all steel and very strong with heavy aftermarket springs available.

Brass for both loads was Agulia and both loads functioned 100 percent. I'm going to reduce the Blue Dot charge to 3.8 and 3.6 and see how that performs.

Thanks,
Stephen

P.S.

I have a 380 barrel for my Beretta 81. I tested a PPU 94g defense load. Numbers are as follows:

PPU Factory 94g JHP, 10 round string, 881 ft/s, sd 23 ft/s, energy 162 ft/s

This load ran fine in the Beretta 81 with the 380 barrel installed.

[Led]

More data. Today's test is the Rim Rock 100g RNFP (96g actual) with 5.0g of 2400.

10 round string, Ave 956 ft/s, ES 69 ft/s, SD 18 ft/s, energy 195 ft/lbs.

Test gun is my standard Beretta 81BB. This load ran great and the gun felt good shooting it. I'm going to roll up 50 rounds and do accuracy testing next. One note about the Rim Rock 100g RNFP bullet. I discovered that in factory Beretta mags the bullet when crimped in the groove would hang up in the mag body. It's a length issue I would assume as this boolit yields a OAL .002 over max length. After market mecgar mags do not have this issue. I only have one factory mag and just so happened to grab it first. With the mecgar mags functioning was 100%.

Later,
Stephen

[ddixie884]

Good data. Thanx for sharing......

[Led]

Greetings all. New year and new data to share.

These loads used coated bullets from ACME. Both are 100g, one is RN the other is FN.

Gun used in testing is a Beretta 81 (no suffix).

Acme coated 100g RN sized at .313
IMR Blue 4.0g +/- 0.1g, CCI 500 primers.
R-P Cases, OAL is .985, bullet is seated long.
String 1, 10 shots, 923 ft/s ave, ES 61, SD 20, 189 Ft/Lbs ave
String 2, 9 shots, 924 ft/s ave, ES 42, SD 11, 189 Ft/Lbs ave

Acme coated 100g FN sized at .313
IMR Blue 4.0g +/- 0.1g, CCI 500 primers.
W-W Cases, OAL is .975, bullet is crimped in the provided groove.
String 1, 10 shots, 880 ft/s ave, ES 68, SD 21, 172 Ft/Lbs ave
String 2, 10 shots, 881 ft/s ave, ES 61, SD 19, 172 Ft/Lbs ave

These loads felt similar to the other heavy 32 ACP loads I've fired. This research is inspired by Outpost75's work on the topic. It's a shame that IMR discontinued IMR Blue because in this application it works wonderfully. In my opinion it's just as good as 2400 for heavy 32 acp loads. It's very interesting that two bullets of the same weight with the same powder charge in the same gun produced noticeably different velocity readings. I would love to here possible explanation from sharper minds than I.

One note, as the reader can see in the thread I've shot the same weight bullet with 4.0g of Blue Dot. The results from that test yielded high velocity and too me were well over the line. This would indicate to me that IMR Blue is slower burning or has less energy density per grain than Blue Dot.

Thanks,
Stephen

[uscra112]

It's very interesting that two bullets of the same weight with the same powder charge in the same gun produced noticeably different velocity readings. I would love to here possible explanation from sharper minds than I.

Seating depth different? Small cases are hypersensitive to seating depth, especially with hot loads. Pressure differs, so MV differs.

[ddixie884]

Cool...........

[warren5421]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?395937-Coyote-%96-0-32ACP-1

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?399957-Any-Retail-Bullet-Casters-using-Accurate-s-31-087T-mold-for-32-ACP

https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/replicating-buffalo-bores-32-acp-p-ammunition.126171/

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?291374-32-ACP-quot-Balls-Up-quot-Serious-Loads-with-Accurate-31-087T

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?316053-32-ACP-heavies

[Rapidrob]

Lead hardness will do what your posting for FPS.
Are you seeing and slide peening with the heavy loads? Does the slide slam into the receiver?
I have the same pistol myself. I collect .32 ACP pistols and shoot them a lot. A fun "man-stopper" load sounds interesting.

[Kosh75287]

The use of IMR-Blue, Blue Dot, or something near their burn rates makes more sense to me, for the results given. There's no arguing with the results the Outpost 75 obtained, using 2400. Given its burn-rate, however, I was nothing less than astonished by the performance. I would have expected results more like what were obtained with the H110 loads.
If you fellows keep obtaining these stellar ballistics, you'll soon need a locking-breech pocket pistol and a dozen rubber recoil buffers to go with it!

[madsenshooter]

I've been following along since this post started. See I have this flake powder that burns about Blue Dot speed. VV 10B101. I've got some PRVI 71gr hollowpoints and some hardcast 85gr roundnose bullets I cast before selling the mold to a friend. I think it was 313249. Maybe they ought to get together.

[Larry Gibson]

Going to the ACME site and looking at the two bullets I'd venture the RN is seated much deeper than the FN. That would account for higher psi and higher velocity given the same load.