CZ SP-01 Shadow Target and Cast

[Eddie1971]

Hey everyone, I am having an issue with my SP-01 Shadow Target I just got and cast bullets. No issues with leading, but issues with feeding. I use the Lee 356-120 TC mold which I love. I powder coat and size the heads to .356. Now I have 3 other 9mm CZ's that shoot cast fine, a P07, P10 and CZ75B. I also have a CZ-97BD in 45 that loves my PC cast loads. Once in a while I may have one hang up, but the Shadow just will not feed these. I always get rounds that won't go fully into battery and hang up where I need to push the slide on the bench to open. I've tried deeper seating of the head to the point that I seat the head all the way down to where the taper starts on the boolit. I'm thinking the tolerances on the SP-01 Shadow Target are just too tight to use properly sized cast heads. Opinions anybody? :veryconfu

[chutesnreloads]

Wish I could help. All but gave up shooting cast in my SP-01. Same boolit too. If it is not PC'd they hit sideways. PC'd I get same issue you describe. Can shoot them loaded single shot rather from the magazine. Accuracy is just so so.
Maybe having the barrel throated will help. Just got tired of fooling with it

[Huskerguy]

I have been working up loads for my CZ 10C and I am finding strange combinations that work. I don't use a Lee crimping die because my 10 doesn't seem to like it for accuracy. However, it might swage things down just enough to allow yours to go into full battery.

I am always careful with the 9 at the case mouth and crimp.

[Eddie1971]

I'm using RCBS dies but I also have a set of Lee as well. I may just use jacketed through it. My other CZ's do well with cast. The Shadow must have such tight tolerances because it's a target pistol. Funny my P320X5 eats them all. Probably because it's not as well made with the tight tolerances.

[edp2k]

Get it throated by Doug Guy.

[mdi]

Perhaps a chamber cast to find out exactly what you're working with?

[Wisest.fool]

I have the same issues with cast PC in my CZ-75 SP-01 not a shadow. what I found is the bullets need to be seated deeper. Deep enough so that no PC touches the barrel. Just seat the bullets deeper. use an unprimed case at your bench and progressively seat it deeper until it doesn't stick anymore and do a moderate crimp. let me know if this helps. if it makes anyone feel better I get the same thing in my colt 1911, walther ppq, and XD45 if I seat them too long. glock with aftermarket barrel has no issues like this.

[onelight]

Doug Guy could probably fix that barrel to work with that bullet and the OAL you use in your other guns.
Or you could find a different shaped bullet that will plunk with a reasonable OAL . Deep seated is okay if you adjust your load for it and it feeds in every thing you want to use it in.
For my guns that have had that problem they have all been European built . But you can find a solution that will work with cast 99% of the time .

[gnappi]

I have the same issues with cast PC in my CZ-75 SP-01 not a shadow. what I found is the bullets need to be seated deeper. Deep enough so that no PC touches the barrel. Just seat the bullets deeper. use an unprimed case at your bench and progressively seat it deeper until it doesn't stick anymore and do a moderate crimp. let me know if this helps. if it makes anyone feel better I get the same thing in my colt 1911, walther ppq, and XD45 if I seat them too long. glock with aftermarket barrel has no issues like this.

I don't use my SP-01 shadow much I like my Tanfos more. But If I ever do use my PC'd cast bullets in it I'll remember your post.

[asmith80]

I had the same issues years ago when I started shooting cast in my SP01. I still have it periodically when I get a new 9mm, most recently with a Kimber in 9mm. CZs and a lot of other modern made pistols don't have a lot of free bore before the rifling starts. You can seat deeper, get a different profile boolit (if this is your only 9, a SWC might be a good idea) or have the barrel throated.

I ended up with a combination of the last two options. I switched to the MP 356-135 which is a great boolit and has a narrow nose, and I also had DougGuy throat the barrel. I can load out as far as I want, and that boolit works at normal depth in all 10 of my 9mm pistols

[M-Tecs]

I don't use my SP-01 shadow much I like my Tanfos more. But If I ever do use my PC'd cast bullets in it I'll remember your post.

I have only shot the CZ versions and have never fired a Tanfoglio. If and when availably and prices come down I plan on getting another of that type. I like my SP-01 and I love my Tactical Sport Orange but I am open to others brands so I am very much interest in other peoples preferences and why.

[onelight]

I have only shot the CZ versions and have never fired a Tanfoglio. If and when availably and prices come down I plan on getting another of that type. I like my SP-01 and I love my Tactical Sport Orange but I am open to others brands so I am very much interest in other peoples preferences and why.
I prefer the CZ because they are supported by Cajun gun works .
I have installed Cajun parts in 6 CZ pistols and the results are always amazing .
My Rami has a 3lb 4 oz sa trigger and a da trigger right at 7 lbs. 100% reliable . Similar results with several 75s a SP01 and a 97b
The triggers are not better than tactical sport but they approach it.

[Meatpuppet]

Hmmm... What is your OAL and Case Mouth Crimp?

I load several different Powdercoated .356/.357dia coated bullet profiles at 125gr, 147gr and 165gr weights for 4 different CZ SP-01 Shadows on an automated Dillon 1050. What is your OAL and Case Mouth Crimp?

At the risk of starting a "Fire", I would have occasional Fail to go in Battery with coated rounds until I used an "M" profile expander (UniqueTek 9mm/.38 HTC Powder Funnel sized .357) and a Lee FCD set to crimp the case mouth to .379. I have had zero issues after tens of thousands of rounds.

They all go into 4" or less at 25 yards when I do my part. The Blue Bullets 147gr (sized .356) and IbejiHeads 165gr (sized .357) will shoot under 2".

I have almost no experience with plain cast lead, but all of my CZ's shoot better with .357dia projectiles.

Edited to include: Imaginary Hat Tip to "onelight". My Cajun Gunworks CZ 2075 Rami (with RMR) is the most amazing carry gun.

[Eddie1971]

Thanks for the reply, I am using the the Lee 356-120 TC mold and the case mouth crimped to .3785 and OAL to 1.050.

[Meatpuppet]

Ruminated on this for a while. I think all signs point to the ogive impacting the rifling and I would try a different profile to confirm (I could drop a few Eggleston Munitions coated 125gr in the mail). The Lee 356-120 TC mold seems to have the same ogive transition as an NLG bullet. Generally the lube groove (LG) version has a reduced bullet nose shape that transitions sharply into the ogive, where the no lube groove (NLG) version is “fatter”. The LG bullet can be loaded longer than the NLG bullet.
272862

Have you tried the "Plunk Test"? (look at #5 on the plunk test. Sometimes the problem is not related to ogive, but not quite sizing the case enough.)

If the ogive is your problem, then Doug Guy is your solution. I did ream a CZ barrel using a Manson throating hand reamer to modify the leade with acceptable results. But I would not do it again.

Plunk Testing:

Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.

Remove and inspect the round:
1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long
2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing.

[Eddie1971]

I'll give that a try and thanks so much for your help with this. As soon as I try I'll report back. Like I mentioned before my old CZ75B that I have had for 20 years is fine with cast PC. Also my SIG P320X5 eats them up as well....
.

[downzero]

My experience with CZs is that they all have stupid short chambers. Either send your barrel to CC Gunworks to get the leade cut longer or get a finish reamer and do it yourself.

[marek313]

Get it throated by Doug Guy.

+1 that will fix all your problems.

[Eddie1971]

OK I think I found my issue with this and it is with my dies. To make a long story short I bought a set of RCBS 9mm dies because my Lee sizing carbide die wore out after about 1,000 rounds. I had to lube the cases so I replaced them with the RCBS. I took out the old Lee set again, and after sizing the cases with the RCBS die, I loaded the cast heads using the Lee seating and factory crimp die. I did the plunk test and they drop in like a jacketed round. They dropped in my Shadow, P07, P10 and CZ75. I should have put 2 and 2 together when I noticed that the CZ97 in 45 wasn't having issues, and I use a Lee set on that. I guess the RBCS seating die with crimp aren't the best to use with cast and using the FCD from Lee and cast go hand in hand.

[asmith80]

I had a similar situation when I switched from a Lee classic turret press with RCBS dies and a Lee FCD to a Dillon 550 with Dillon dies. No troubles before the switch, tons after. Turns out I didn't have the Dillon crimp die set correctly. I was almost at the point of returning the Dillon dies and setting up my old ones when I figured it out. Now my first thought when I have loading issues is "try the crimp first"

[Eddie1971]

I don't think the RCBS 9mm seating die can seat and crimp the PC cast bullets correctly. They are flawless with jacketed, and I also bleed RCBS green as well. The Lee FCD is making the cast work.