Ammo ??

[SSGOldfart]

I must have been under a rock this last year or something??? I've not bought factory ammo in years so I guess I'm not paying attention to detail these days,I saw primers disappearing a few months back,but never though about a day when we couldn't buy 270 or 243 or 30-06 off the shelf. What happened?:twisted::twisted:

[kerplode]

I must have been under a rock this last year or something???

Apparently...


What happened?:twisted::twisted:

The 'Rona, widespread rioting and civil unrest, an election, all-time-record guns sales every month for the last several months...

[Hossfly]

17,000,000.00 guns bought this year is what happened. The ammo got slammed, they cant keep up.

[SSGOldfart]

My helper emailed this morning looking for a box of 270 for deer season and a box of 243 for his son. Guess I'm not the only one under a rock,I guess handgun ammo makes sense but rifle hunting ammo? I'm not sure I'm buying that!!!!!!!!!!

[DickelDawg]

It's amazing to me what we neglect to see coming over the horizon. I've been watching this trend for some time now.
I believe it's due to several factors: demand, politics, covid, etc.
At any rate, I'm glad I could see some of this coming and made certain provisions for it. Not worried about hunting ammo or self-defense.

[SSGOldfart]

I'm not worried,just a little shocked to see it happen.

[rockrat]

Not a box of rifle ammo at wally world yesterday, period. Very little shotshell too.

[10-x]

Friend and I went in Academy Sports today, he had no clue about the “ run”. He asked were was all the ammo, lol .

[reddog81]

My helper emailed this morning looking for a box of 270 for deer season and a box of 243 for his son. Guess I'm not the only one under a rock,I guess handgun ammo makes sense but rifle hunting ammo? I'm not sure I'm buying that!!!!!!!!!!

When there's absolutely nothing else to buy everyone gobbles up whatever is in stock. Rifle hunting ammo was the last to go, but alas here we are. I'm not sure why it is hard to believe... Most manufactures probably only schedule 1 or 2 runs per year of the ammo mentioned. It's not like there's a huge stockpile of 270 sitting somewhere.

I was sitting pretty good on most calibers and reloading components back in March when things started to go south. I noticed I was low on .32 S&W Long and .38 S&W ammo and brass. I bought a couple boxes of each. On a different forum I mentioned stocking up on such items and numerous posters thought the prospects of running out of those calibers was absurd and couldn't believe someone would stock up on calibers that will never sell out. Try to find some now...

[725]

The only shotgun ammo on the Wal-Mart shelves around me was 28 ga. No rifle ammo at all.

[M-Tecs]

17,000,000.00 guns bought this year is what happened. The ammo got slammed, they cant keep up.

The MSM is lying. Per the FBI the NIC's checks are more like 34,000,000. Normally only 1% are rejected. The NIC's check is used as the final point before sale. NIC's Also don't show multiple sales. Same for the 18 States that have link care permits. If you have a current permit a NIC's check is not needed. Actual sales are more like double the 17 Mil. MSM figures. Also the MSM was say 17 Mil in late July or early August.

[dtknowles]

The MSM is lying. Per the FBI the NIC's checks are more like 34,000,000. Normally only 1% are rejected. The NIC's check is used as the final point before sale. NIC's Also don't show multiple sales. Same for the 18 States that have link care permits. If you have a current permit a NIC's check is not needed. Actual sales are more like double the 17 Mil. MSM figures. Also the MSM was say 17 Mil in late July or early August.
34 million, 17 million, 10 million, does it change the fact that a lot of new guns sold looking for ammo?

I do agree your number might be more accurate.

Tim

[elmacgyver0]

I must have been under a rock this last year or something??? I've not bought factory ammo in years so I guess I'm not paying attention to detail these days,I saw primers disappearing a few months back,but never though about a day when we couldn't buy 270 or 243 or 30-06 off the shelf. What happened?:twisted::twisted:

Biden Coup

[Thunder Stick]

Ammo flew off the shelves when TP did. The common calibers disappeared first. I noticed in my local shops that .243, 25-06 and .270 ammo was still somewhat available. So, when I found a bolt action .270 in a pawn shop I bought it. I wanted to be able to shoot something if things took a bigger turn for the worse.

[Winger Ed.]

Get on youtube and look for 'modern ammo production'.

There is several videos of inside the ammo. factories.
They're cranking it out as fast as ever,
but look at the production rates coming off the assy. lines that are in place to feed all the new gun purchases,
as well as supplying the 'normal' demand.

For what is involved to 'just build more factories'---
It looks like it'd take well over a year or two, and cost at least 30 million dollars before the first 9mm dropped off the end.

[uscra112]

Yuuuuge demand for .22, common handgun rounds, common "black rifle" rounds is consuming all the brass and primers they can make. Hunting ammo gets the short stick. Too late to tool up to reload...there's no primers.

During WW2 there was no centerfire ammo at all for civilians for about four years. In the small ads at the back of the Rifleman you saw people begging for primers, and others offering just 50 at a time. Some guys dragged out Grandpa's old smokepole and learned to hunt with it. (Black powder was never in short supply.)

[SSGOldfart]

Yes Sir but wasn't the War the reason for that shortage? I could agree if it was a few calibers vs every caliber.
Simper-Fi

[uscra112]

War production consumed every bit of brass, primers, powder and bullets that the industry could produce. Our situation is unlike only in that it's a narrow sector of civilian demand that's soaking up all the resources, and even so is still unable to meet demand even in that sector. Like toilet paper, the distribution pipeline has been sucked dry, and refilling it, especially with the hunting calibers, will be a while. The WW2 drought lasted into 1947.

N.B. It was the war drought that prodded Fred Huntington and others to start swaging .22 bullets from rimfire cases, an endeavor which is still with us.

[MUSTANG]

The gov't did make sure that there were 22's available for rabbit and predator control in the Great Plains (so my Uncles, Grandad's and Grandmothers used to tell me. At one time; they had a nickel bounty on a pair of Jack Rabbit ears in the Panhandle of Texas during WWII according to them. Idea was to limit the loss (coyotes and the occasional Wolf that still existed in the GreatPlains) of sheep, cattle, and gardens (rabbit's eating them up). Of course; there was a lot of training using 22 LR's during the 1930's through WWII using rifles and even adapters for the 30 caliber machine guns.

[dtknowles]

The supply chain was designed to meet normal demand with normal work weeks. Increased demand requires overtime. The current labor situation is not all the normal work force is going to work so those that do have to work overtime to meet normal demand. There is no reserve to meet higher than normal demand. Where I work if we hire someone it temporarily hurts production because you have to take someone off the line to train the new hire. A pro and a newbie working together training do not have the output of the pro working by himself. Actually a certain increase in the scrap rate is also expected with new hires. In times like these I fear buying as I know that quality controls are relaxed and what would be seconds or scrap is sold as first quality.

Tim

[memtb]

If “ANYONE” has been caught by surprise by this, they are either “Sleepy” of The Seven Dwarfs or have not been watching the news over the past 12 months! memtb

[Winger Ed.]

rimfire cases, an endeavor which is still with us.

That's how Mr. Hornady started out too.

[Froogal]

My helper emailed this morning looking for a box of 270 for deer season and a box of 243 for his son. Guess I'm not the only one under a rock,I guess handgun ammo makes sense but rifle hunting ammo? I'm not sure I'm buying that!!!!!!!!!!

No! I'm not buying that either.

[SSGOldfart]

Well problem solved with hunting ammo for the time being I have every thing needed to make the 270 and already loaded up the 243 and 30-06. What's a couple hundred primers and a little time!!!!!!! Yep I may want to craw back under that rock sometime soon who knows???????

[cabezaverde]

My helper emailed this morning looking for a box of 270 for deer season and a box of 243 for his son. Guess I'm not the only one under a rock,I guess handgun ammo makes sense but rifle hunting ammo? I'm not sure I'm buying that!!!!!!!!!!

Wife and I were at Walmart today. Ammo shelf totally cleaned except for some steel shot shells (a couple boxes).

[uscra112]

Went by my FFL this morning. All he had left was some .32 S&W (the short kind). Since I have and old Iver Johnson revolver that takes it, I bought a box even though I don't really need it.

[Froogal]

If “ANYONE” has been caught by surprise by this, they are either “Sleepy” of The Seven Dwarfs or have not been watching the news over the past 12 months! memtb

Comments of that nature are not in the least bit helpful. I have been searching for primers long before that toilet paper shortage thing, and could find none.

[Brass&Lead]

Froogal
Finding supplies now requires speed and determination with huge helpings of calm and patience. I wanted some nuts. After several attempted to get the nuts and failing, I had the store special order a case of 24 – I now have nuts!
I was looking for canning jar lids for next summer. There are none here. I ordered them from a place in Iowa at a good price. I was able to get next years supply of LPP. I was looked for about 70 days and found them at Graf’s.

[Froogal]

Froogal
Finding supplies now requires speed and determination with huge helpings of calm and patience. I wanted some nuts. After several attempted to get the nuts and failing, I had the store special order a case of 24 – I now have nuts!
I was looking for canning jar lids for next summer. There are none here. I ordered them from a place in Iowa at a good price. I was able to get next years supply of LPP. I was looked for about 70 days and found them at Graf’s.

I am on the "notify" list at both Graf's and Midway, and have been for several months. As far as canning lids go I found them at "mason jar merchant", and bought enough to last several years. No one locally has anything related to home canning. At the grocery store today, there was plenty of toilet paper on the shelves, but with a limit of 2 per customer. We didn't need any, but bought 2 packages anyhow.

[elmacgyver0]

It is going to be a brave new world, one where private ownership of firearms is frowned upon.
If you do not have what you already need you may be pretty much screwed.
I sincerely hope not but it is the harsh reality of the times we live in.

We have just witnessed the worst corruption in an election in the history of our once great country.
I am afraid we are in for some dark times.

I have been hearing about an economic reset, I do not know what this means but I am sure it is not good, judging from the people who seem happy about it.

[Texas by God]

I have never turned down free factory ammo from friends no matter what gauge or caliber. I’ve never been able to predict what gun will show up for repair or a friend looking for ammo for their new toy. The best way to not get caught unaware is to frequent gun shops and pawn shops and buy ammo and components when they are there. Never assume anything!

[MUSTANG]

Went to Murdochs today to get Game Bird Feed and Corn. No Game bird feed, no Corn, no Primers, limited powder (picked up 2 lbs of BLC2), no 30 caliber jacketed bullets, no .224 jacket bullets - BUT They had probably 60 boxes of .223's -linit of 2 (as well as valkyrie); all the 30 caliber from low to 300 win mag were gone. Strangely; they had a dozen boxes of 22 Hornet factory ammo.

Yesterday went into Sprtsman Ski Haus and they had about 40 boxes of .223 - limit of 2.

[Geezer in NH]

Since Obama was elected the first time shortages became the norm. Trump got elected it came back. Everyone had 2 years to get what you should have. Now with the demo/communists it is to late.

Why folks cannot find any is they paid no attention. Just make me wonder who they voted for this time.

[MOA]

I can remember when I was a store manager for Academy in Huntsville TX we had pallets on the main floor stacked 5 an6 high of cases of ammo both rifle and shotgun. I saw this coming back in 2012 when. Obomo got re-elected. I'm glad I opened a small LGS back in 99. There's not much I need. Lol.

[memtb]

Comments of that nature are not in the least bit helpful. I have been searching for primers long before that toilet paper shortage thing, and could find none.

You are correct sir.....not helpful! My apologies for the offensive statement! memtb

[memtb]

Breaking News: This will not help the current firearms/ammunition/component situation! While this may not directly affect anyone here.....think of “trickle down effect”! Jus Say’n! memtb

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2020/10/19/joe-bidens-gun-policy-could-tax-gun-owners-200-for-every-high-capacity-magazine-they-own/

[maxreloader]

Comments of that nature are not in the least bit helpful. I have been searching for primers long before that toilet paper shortage thing, and could find none.

Then you must not know where to look or your searching capabilities need improvement. I say this in all seriousness without any foul or harm intended.

[MrWolf]

I just won a bid for a sig 357. Found a few boxes to test with until I get Dillon dies. Brass will be here tomorrow. Everything costs more but figure a few boxes won't break me for the "off" calibers.

[knifemaker]

I got caught during Obama's first term and learned my lesson on stocking up. The photos are of the factory ammo I stocked up during the past 8 years. It does not show the 30 caliber ammo cans filled with reloaded pistol ammo in 38, 357, 9mm, and 45acp. Does not show the over 15 thousand primers for pistol and rifle or the 50 lbs of powder for reloading. Nor does it show the lead ingots of over 1,000 pounds and the 15 bullet molds for making my own bullets if factory reloading bullets dry up like primers did.271826271827

[dtknowles]

It seems for those wanting more it is a mad scramble, a race to see who can grab the product just as it hits the shelf. I can sort of understand but it seems very dog eats dog.

Tim

[frkelly74]

I was in a shop a few days ago and there was plenty of pistol ammo on the shelf. As long as you wanted 38-40, 44-40, or 44 special you were all set.



They were between $50 and $75 per box of 50 rounds .

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I have been patronizing the same lgs for 25 years. Now I worry that they may have to reduce hours or close because they have so little stock to sell. Looks like a Russian grocery store did years back. I stocked up on primers and powder in March and did the same in February for .223 and 9mm ball. Already had plenty of 7.62 x 39 and 5.45 x 39. Got some cases of 54R and 8mm too. Should have bought more primers as I only have about 10K total. I don't shoot factory ammo much so that will last me quit awhile.

It is surprising that the hunting ammo went too.

[memtb]

I can only guess, and am likely incorrect However, perhaps with the massive rush from people buying handguns and ammo.....caused the ammo producers to put all of their resources into handgun ammo, creating a shortage of long gun ammo! No basis for this.....just a though! memtb

[Handloader109]

The issue main issue is hoarding. Several of you guys have just stated this. If I see it, I'm buying, I might not need it, especially now, but I'll buy it. That is hoarding and along with the record gun sales it is just making things worse. I'd like a few boxes of factory 9mm self defense loads but big deal if I don't find them for a while. I've plenty of everything for a few years and I haven't bought anything but lead in a year.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[BrutalAB]

The issue main issue is hoarding. Several of you guys have just stated this. If I see it, I'm buying, I might not need it, especially now, but I'll buy it. That is hoarding and along with the record gun sales it is just making things worse. I'd like a few boxes of factory 9mm self defense loads but big deal if I don't find them for a while. I've plenty of everything for a few years and I haven't bought anything but lead in a year.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Soooooo you are "hoarding" a few years worth of ammo and are trying to lay blame on others for "hoarding"?

I have a certain amount of ammo in my stock, i am using that ammo. I might not be pulling the trigger at this moment, but at this moment i am using it.
When you understand what i am saying, maybe you wont be so quick to demonize fellow patriots.

Eta: what you described is just an aspect of "demand" a change in "demand" is any change in the buyers behaviors or thoughts that is not dependant on price. In the case you listed, the buyer fears that nothing will be availiable in the future so better buy what he can. Its often called "panic buying" another explanation is that the buyer thinks he could use the ammo in a trade to get what he does want.
In fact all of 2020 has just been one massive demand change, as noted by previous posters.

[dangitgriff]

The MSM is lying. Per the FBI the NIC's checks are more like 34,000,000. Normally only 1% are rejected. The NIC's check is used as the final point before sale. NIC's Also don't show multiple sales. Same for the 18 States that have link care permits. If you have a current permit a NIC's check is not needed. Actual sales are more like double the 17 Mil. MSM figures. Also the MSM was say 17 Mil in late July or early August.

BATF reported 17 million. Of that number, 7 million were new/first time gun buyers.
R/Griff

[memtb]

Soooooo you are "hoarding" a few years worth of ammo and are trying to lay blame on others for "hoarding"?

I have a certain amount of ammo in my stock, i am using that ammo. I might not be pulling the trigger at this moment, but at this moment i am using it.
When you understand what i am saying, maybe you wont be so quick to demonize fellow patriots.

Eta: what you described is just an aspect of "demand" a change in "demand" is any change in the buyers behaviors or thoughts that is not dependant on price. In the case you listed, the buyer fears that nothing will be availiable in the future so better buy what he can. Its often called "panic buying" another explanation is that the buyer thinks he could use the ammo in a trade to get what he does want.
In fact all of 2020 has just been one massive demand change, as noted by previous posters.


I believe that there is a vast difference from slowly accumulating over years and panic purchasing when supplies diminish! You have the prerogative of disagreeing! memtb

[BrutalAB]

I see it as just different intensities of the same base behavior.
Yes, the strain on the market is vastly different, but thats the nature of things. We are all humans and do what we are incentivized to do.

How is buying a box or two extra every other time you go buy ammo when you know you are not gonna shoot it before you buy more ammo amy different than buying every box you can find when you notice the shelves emptying and staying empty? The difference is incentive, the prospect of going some time without because its simply not availible to restock your supply is much more pressing in the second case. So we react accordingly. Its not evil, simply human nature to avoid a loss. (The drive to avoid loosing anything is pretty strong, take for example the feeling of having a gun stolen from you vs the joy you would have from a gun gifted to you, the pain outweighs the joy in almost everyone.)

[uscra112]

It's not hoarding until you've exceeded a lifetime supply.

Over several decades, buying stuff I didn't need immediately is why I have adequate supplies of now-unobtainable brass for calibers like 11mm Mauser, .25-20 Stevens (Single Shot), .22 Lovell, .25-21 Stevens, .32 Ideal, and .28-30-120. Never mind the merely scarce ones like 8x57R, .32-40, .303 Savage, .25-20 WCF, 35 Remington, and .218 Bee. Ditto primers, ditto Varget. (Just wish I'd been greedier about IMR 4759, of late lamented memory.) Ditto wheelweights and Linotype.

I've admitted on this forum to having failed to "hoard" enough CCI Quiet .22 ammo, which I actually need for pest control around here, and for which there is simply no substitute. Like a fool I assumed it would always be as available as sliced bread.....wrong. Had to pay scalpers prices to rectify that mistake. OTOH what am I going to do with bricks and bricks of Thunderduds? Grandsons didn't use it all up, and now they're both graduated from college and half a continent away, gone to Texas.

I'm going to great lengths to make .25 Stevens Long (rimfire) and because I never bought enough .32 Long rimfire I've mutilated a couple of old rifles by converting breechblocks to centerfire. Wish I'd hoarded those 30 years ago when they were just $10 a box instead of $125. Yes, I do.

[jonp]

Who knew Casters were ahead of the curve? 100yrs behind the times but like everything it's coming back around the curve. I never knew how many "friends" I had until a couple of years ago during the last shortage

"You, like, really use tire weights to make ammo"?

[memtb]

What we are about to experience is part of the reason that I started casting in the mid-‘70’s! I thought that this was going to happen much sooner! memtb

[Buzz Krumhunger]

Breaking News: This will not help the current firearms/ammunition/component situation! While this may not directly affect anyone here.....think of “trickle down effect”! Jus Say’n! memtb

https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2020/10/19/joe-bidens-gun-policy-could-tax-gun-owners-200-for-every-high-capacity-magazine-they-own/

If I had any of those awful things I might not admit it.

[Geezer in NH]

Seems folks who yell hoarders cause they don't have any are the ones who had the chance and were to cheap to buy at the time.

May they enjoy the anxiety of it.

[memtb]

I just found this on another forum. It’s a very plausible explanation as to the shortages, primarily primers (pun intended)! A brief but, pretty good read! memtb
https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/why-is-there-a-primer-supply-shortage/

[uscra112]

Interesting point about the Remington bankruptcy. And Vista redirecting some CCI primers to Remington. And the dearth of foreign-sourced primers.

The days of doing multiple mag dumps for the fun of it are over. Start thinking like we single-shot shooters do.

[john.k]

I was at the scrapyard last week ,in the back of the payout office was a number of big(4ft sq) cartons of 9mm empties...had a silly impulse to pocket one,but Ive got more sense than that.Must have been at least 20 cartons full ,dunno how many cases.

[uscra112]

That brass would be a valuable reloaders' resource. . . . . . IF there were primers.

[Shawlerbrook]

Pretty much covered but a combination of Covid, civil unrest and the (now) election of enemies of the Second Amendment.

[Froogal]

Then you must not know where to look or your searching capabilities need improvement. I say this in all seriousness without any foul or harm intended.

We have no local gun stores that carry reloading components. My only source is gun shows where I bought the last brick of large pistol primers the vendor had, and also online stores such as Midway, Graf's, Natchez, etc. etc., and those stores have been out of stock for a long, long time, so don't tell me that I do not know where to look.

[Brass&Lead]

May I suggest that you also add to improve your odds:
https://www.brownells.com/
https://www.natchezss.com/
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/

Just was able to snag 8# Hodgdon H4895 from Natchez.

[uscra112]

Show us where any primer type is in stock at any of those online suppliers. Or any other online supplier for that matter.

Bids on Gunbroker are stratospheric:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/884683907
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/885004244
Asking prices beyond the orbit of the moon
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/885073012

[dtknowles]

Show us where any primer type is in stock at any of those online suppliers. Or any other online supplier for that matter.

Bids on Gunbroker are stratospheric:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/884683907
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/885004244
Asking prices beyond the orbit of the moon
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/885073012

I think some one suggested checking all the sites many times a day to catch items when they are restocked. Not my style. I don't use any of those sites or apps that check for you and send you a notification. If you don't do this the people who do will beat you to the in stock items.

Tim

[Froogal]

May I suggest that you also add to improve your odds:
https://www.brownells.com/
https://www.natchezss.com/
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/

Just was able to snag 8# Hodgdon H4895 from Natchez.

Already checked those, and do so at least once per day. NO primers.

[uscra112]

I think some one suggested checking all the sites many times a day to catch items when they are restocked.

Tim

I'm retired, almost immobilized with low back pain, trapped at home by COVID lockdowns. I could do this, but jeeez, even I have a life!

[uscra112]

Face it folks, what with the exploding demand for ammo, the Remington debacle, and dearth of primers coming in from overseas, (Russia, S&B, et.al.), there ain't gonna BE any primers for a long while. Plan accordingly. This will mean ceasing or at least curtailing ammo-hungry sports like run-n-gun combat pistol and cowboy action, ceasing to fire hundreds of rounds a week for practice, und-und-und. Dry firing drills only. Mothball those fancy progressive presses.

Old time hunters of winter meat could and did make one box of 20 centerfire rounds last three seasons, and didn't go hungry, either. Depression-era farm boys were given three .22 rounds and told to bring in a rabbit or a couple of squirrels for supper, and got a lickin' if they failed. Learn the three-rounds-only method of sighting-in your scoped rifle. Learn to hunt successfully with single-shots instead of repeaters. (A comparatively few early settlers wiped out the deer and elk in Pennsylvania with muzzleloaders, for Pete's sake!) Hunt with bows and crossbows.

Observe, adapt, overcome. This is a sample of the doomsday the preppers have been warning about.

[Shawlerbrook]

I have no problem with people buying more ammo than they might shoot, because they never want to shoot their last round. I think most of us agree that those buying everything to hopefully, gouge desperate shooters are the one’s that should be scorned.

[Mongrelcat]

I ran into a chance to buy a few reloading items from an older gentleman north of me. In that kit was about 800 rds of 7.92 x 57 ammo. Its 185 grain Corelokt bullets loaded over H4895. I did the best I could think of and screwed a barrel in a 1916 Oberndorf mauser and started blasting away. Just as much fun as any other rifle i have and way cheaper. If there are others local to me stop by and you can blast some too. Bring your 8mmx57 and we will have some fun.