*Old* Marlin Help 38-55 Not Marked for Smokeless or BP No Model Number

[spencerhut]

So I came across and old ~1893'ish according to the 908xx serial number Marlin in 38-55. It is not marked for Smokeless or BP. It does not have a model number of any sort. ~26" Octagon barrel with a full length magazine tube. Straight stock. Patent Dates Oct 11, 1887 and April 2, 1892 on the top of the barrel. Marked "Marlin Safety" on top of the receiver.

Anyone know what it is?

[Shawlerbrook]

Pictures would help.

[725]

If it's marked"Marlin Safety", then it is proofed for smokeless. SMOKELESS OF THE TIME PERIOD ! Early 1893's were not so marked and not proofed for smokeless. Go easy on the 'ol girl. At her age, she needs a gentile touch. I wouldn't go hot-riding with it. Of course, not seeing or handling it, my thoughts are of a general nature. YMMV.

[spencerhut]

I think it's an 1893 . . .
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[spencerhut]

If it's marked"Marlin Safety", then it is proofed for smokeless. SMOKELESS OF THE TIME PERIOD ! Early 1893's were not so marked and not proofed for smokeless. Go easy on the 'ol girl. At her age, she needs a gentile touch. I wouldn't go hot-riding with it. Of course, not seeing or handling it, my thoughts are of a general nature. YMMV.

Yeah, I'm not one to hot rod old guns. Would be nice if I could shoot it with Trail Boss etc.

[725]

Have fun. That's a great old gun and lots of fun.

[Dan Cash]

You have a Marlin 1893 or Model 93. Look at what is roll marked on the upper tang. The gun, marked Marlin Safety DOES NOT indicate proofed for smokeless ammunition. Marlin Safety on top of the receiver indicates the gun has a two piece firing pin with the rear section tipping down out of alignment when the breech lock is lowered. If the BARREL is not marked as being special for smokeless powder, the gun is a black power rifle. Smokeless marked 1893 rifles came with the advent of the .30-30 in late 94 or sometime in 1895.

[flyin brian]

As Dan correctly noted, the Marlin safety stamp has nothing to do with smokeless powder.

I don't remember the serial number ranges but that might be a first year production rifle. I had one that early but I sold it unfortunately.

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[spencerhut]

So any ideas on loads for this old war horse? Can I just stuff some Trail boss under a heavy lead bullet?

[BK7saum]

Trail boss is not necessarily a low pressure powder, just low velocity. I would be wary of trail boss and get a handle on what is safe before loading and shooting any ammo loaded with TB

[fordwannabe]

Try 9-9.5 grains of Unique with an appropriate sized cast boolit.

[quail4jake]

I would suggest contacting the Marlin owner's association. they can be a wealth of information. Try to find your year of manufacture and pressure recommendations etc. I have a 1916 Model '93 chambered in .30 WCF, it's a real prize. They helped me find YOM and original sale, of course in .30 WCF there is no question of smokeless powder use but I only load to specs from that era. 10 gr Unique or Universal under an NOE 171 FNGC sized .308 works great. I would suggest the above research and pound slugging the throat to find your cast diameter and sizing diameter. you may not be restricted to blackpowder only but I would gather reliable advice on smokeless loading and keep it to cast boolits only, .38-55 chambers, throats and bore / groove diameters are some of the most variable you'll find so this will be a meticulous venture to get it right but the final result can be very rewarding!
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[spencerhut]

That is why I'm asking. I've purposely avoided all black powder guns my entire life. So this is new to me.

[TGM]

The Marlin Safety marking on top of the receiver does not indicate that it has a two piece firing pin. My 1889 Marlin has the Marlin Safety on the receiver and it has a one piece firing pin.

[ATCDoktor]

According to this article, Marlin Safety was added to receivers in 1889 and spoke specifically to the receivers solid top and side ejection features.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/6/9/i-have-this-old-gun-marlin-model-93-carbine/


During the latter part of the 19th century, Marlin was giving Winchester a run for its money. Not only was Marlin first with a lever gun that could chamber the popular .45-70 Gov’t cartridge (the Model 1881), but the Model 1889 introduced Marlin’s side-ejecting, solid-topped receiver. The latter was stamped “Marlin Safety,” implying it was safer than Winchester’s open, top-ejecting system.

The article goes on to say:


These features were the result of a collaboration between John Mahon Marlin and Lewis Lobdell Hepburn, a noted firearms designer who had been on the winning Creedmoor rifle team in 1874. Hepburn joined Marlin in 1886 and, realizing the firearms world was entering the era of smokeless powder, decided to update the 1889 by lengthening its action, strengthening the bolt and devising a two-piece firing-pin safety—a feature still in use by Marlin today. Marlin christened the improved lever-action the Model 1893.

So, the “Marlin Safety” marking was added in 1889 and the two piece firing pin was added in 1893 and it appears one has nothing to do with the other.

[.45Cole]

Not an expert but the real problem would be how hard you push it. The action is a good design, the smokeless steel is mainly barrel and I assume that it was for erosion of jacket bullets. If you stick with cast boolits and moderate velocities (1500 or less) with mid pressure loads I would think you would be fine. I have heard that the 10.0grns Unique under a 250 boolit is a pretty time tested load. I'd also look at AA5744, many use it as a go-to for smokeless loads in BP cartridges. You will need to research a good load, but I'd think pushing a ~250grn cast boolit in the mid velocities with this powder will easily keep you within tolerances.

[Prairie Cowboy]

According to this website, any 5 digit serial number beginning with 9 was manufactured in 1893. I played with this look-up function and it looks like any serial number between 80350 and 95749 was manufactured in 1893.

https://oldguns.net/sn_php/marlinlookup.php

So, it's probably a black powder proofed rifle. My Lyman reloading manual reminds reloaders that old rifles like this should be checked for excess headspace, and that groove diameters vary by quite a bit.

My Lyman cast bullet handbook lists for a 250 grain cast lead bullet in an old Stevens 44 1/2 falling block single shot rifle:
(Admittedly a pretty weak action.)

(maximum)
8.5 grains Red Dot - 1145 FPS
9.0 grains Green Dot - 1160 FPS
9.5 grains Unique - 1170 FPS

No pressures given, but they are presumably mild at these velocities.

[pietro]

You have a Marlin 1893 or Model 93.

Look at what is roll marked on the upper tang.


That SN indicates you have a black powder Model 1893

Considering it's age, and the metals used back then, "cat sneeze" loads are indicated.

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[1006]

Maybe these loads will help to zero in on a light load.

11.2 800X with a 260 grain cast bullet is pretty docile in my 375Winchester @ 1040fps. I have no idea what the pressure is.

Same bullet with 10.0 UniversalClays for 1140fps.

Same bullet with 26.0 BL(c)-2, and rifle primer for 1040fps, and kind of sounds like black powder when it goes bang.

Trail Boss, as said before, is not a low pressure load, only a low velocity load. 8.4TB gave me 970fps. 10.0 TB gave me a small velocity increase to 991fps and a lot more pressure.

[John Taylor]

Modern ammo for the 38-55 are loaded to BP pressures, same as 45-70. The steel in the barrels was not changed till 1895 and Winchester called theirs Nickel steel. Marlin called theirs special smokeless or smokeless steel. If the rifling looks good I would stay with lead bullets. If the rifling is not good it can be lined and this will make a good shooter. I have a 93 Marlin in 38-55 that was originally chamber in 25-36 and re-bored. Good idea to check bore size as many will need a bullet as big as .381" to shoot well.