45-70 "medium" loads / casting questions

[jamesp81]

I kind of figure shooting a 400+ gr cast bullet, the on target performance difference between a hot load running 1800-2000 fps and a "medium" load running around 1500 fps probably isn't much, excepting use against very thick skinned, dangerous game.

In the interests of saving my shoulder and wallet, I'm looking for loads in this range that use low bulk powders, just as a way to load something less expensive so I can get in more trigger time. Most load data I see is either heavy loads using slower rifle powders, or a few subsonic loads using low charges of pistol powders. Looking for something between.

These loads probably won't be used for hunting. Essentially I'll be blasting empty milk jugs with them for entertainment :D

In terms of casting, I'm planning on powder coating. Do you guys typically find that you need a gas check at these velocities?

[Kraschenbirn]

I use 13.5 gr. Unique under a powder-coated 405 gr RN (Lyman 457124) to duplicate the old .45-55-405 Gov't load for the Trapdoor carbine in my H&R reproduction. Comfortable to shoot and quite accurate out to 200 yds or so.

Have never found a need for a gas check on any .45-70 load but I keep mine down to BPCR pressure levels, too.

Bill

[webfoot10]

I use 15 grs of unique under the lee 420 gr. bullet in a Ruger no 3 45/70. keeps
them in a one inch group. No need to powder coat, just shoot as cast with a good
lube. This load has killed 15 deer in the last 10 yrs. So it is not a squib load.

[RickinTN]

I've been playing with a couple of Marlin 45-70's lately. I've used a handfull of powders but I think my standard for plinking, and maybe even hunting load will be a charge of Unique in the 10 to 14 grain or so range. I really can't see the need for more velocity than this will offer for hunting Tennessee Whitetail deer.
Good Luck,
Rick

[jamesp81]

Wondering if anyone has tried something other than Unique? It meters like crap and I don't have much onhand :D

[Outpost75]

Wondering if anyone has tried something other than Unique? It meters like crap and I don't have much onhand :D

12 grains of 231 will do the same thing, but exercise due caution to avoid double charges!

While an accidental double-charge of this load will ring the chamber of an original 1884 Trapdoor, and turn a shootable antique into a wall hanger, it does not "blow up" the gun. Don't ask me how I know....

[smkummer]

I use 13.5 gr. Unique under a powder-coated 405 gr RN (Lyman 457124) to duplicate the old .45-55-405 Gov't load for the Trapdoor carbine in my H&R reproduction. Comfortable to shoot and quite accurate out to 200 yds or so.

Have never found a need for a gas check on any .45-70 load but I keep mine down to BPCR pressure levels, too.

Bill

Yep, I am using about 14.6 unique and a 350 grain bullet in my repro H&R officers model for about 1300 FPS. I hit a 24” square plate at 200 yards about 8/10 times. I have a slip on leather recoil pad made for shotguns to make this enjoyable for as many rounds I want to shoot.

[USSR]

My favorite .45-70 load is a 300gr cast bullet of my design in front of 12gr of Red Dot. Easy on the shoulder and more than enough for the local whitetails.

Don

[jamesp81]

Yep, I am using about 14.6 unique and a 350 grain bullet in my repro H&R officers model for about 1300 FPS. I hit a 24” square plate at 200 yards about 8/10 times. I have a slip on leather recoil pad made for shotguns to make this enjoyable for as many rounds I want to shoot.

I'd like to hit around 1500 fps if possible. I like to have a little padding to avoid supersonic to subsonic transition out to 100 yards.

[Wayne Smith]

If you want a fun comfortable plinking round change your boolit. That's essentially why the Collar Button boolit was designed, indoor (then) winter practice and plinking.

[Harter66]

I added a Rapine 458201 to the kit , I think it was for original Colts , it casts .459-255 in my alloy . Otherwise I shoot the 458193 mostly .

There is a ton of Trapdoor level data out there for about 25 different powders . I use Unique because it is , and I have volumes of it available . Lyman #43 gives 10-16gr under the 458193 @405 . At 5-700 loads per lb I don't why it's not more loved ......

I have no metering issues with it through the Uniflow . I have a centered hole baffle and charge the measure chamber on the lift up and drop on the way down works fine with 4350 and 4831 that way too . It keeps me within 10 kernels anyway .

Smokeless Trapdoor level loads are more than enough for anything inside 200 yd . My Strelok calculator shows a 2000 fps 250 to be ahead of a 1400 fps 405 all the way to 150 yd , it's the same results with the 250 vs 500/535 at 1100 fps there is some difference in hold over but I'm zeroed at 150 and it's really as easy as hold brisket at 100 and spine at 200 for center of the engine room .

[Static line]

I'll just throw my load for a 405 gr. WFN-PB cast bullet out of my Guide Gun. I get 1-3/4" groups at 100 yards using 42 grains of IMR 4064 and an average velocity of 1388 fps. That's all my 74 year old shoulder can take.

[John Boy]

Pick the load you want to use ... http://reloadammo.com/4570load.htm
Lowest load .... IMR 4198 21.5 gr. 733 (MAX is 28.5 @ 1,195 fps)

[725]

A favorite ~ 30 gr. 4198 w/ Dacron under 400 gr. cast.

[Yooper003]

For the loads you are looking for , I would look to either Trailboss or 5744 (shootersworld Buffalo rifle about thr same). Both work well for me in moderate loads.

[mehavey]

400gr at 1,200fps will drop any animal in North America... and then some.
Also recommend Accurate 5744 to go with it.
Peas & Carrots.

https://s33.postimg.cc/d749jv8b3/45-70_Marlin_GBL_Lyman457193_AA5744_sm.jpg
271649

[44Blam]

400gr at 1,200fps will drop any animal in North America... and then some.
Also recommend Accurate 5744 to go with it.
Peas & Carrots.

https://s33.postimg.cc/d749jv8b3/45-70_Marlin_GBL_Lyman457193_AA5744_sm.jpg
271649

Impressive mehavey.

[Winger Ed.]

I've been happy with the 405 using minimum-ish loads of 4198 or 3031 from the Lyman Cast book,
at old trapdoor Springfield speeds with them in my Marlin.

On the other hand:
Cleaning afterwards is a bit of a hassle, but either 65, or the full house 70 grains of FF Holy Black with a 405 is a hoot.
The burn rate on it is so slow compared to smokeless, the recoil seems more like a firm push instead of a 'kick'.

As far as accuracy, and speed; when the govt. was evaluating it, they found that if you do your part with a trapdoor-
it'll take a man off a horse at 1,000 yards.

[44Blam]

I like my 350gr boolit with about 55 grain of 335. Sends that sucker about 2000 fps and my MOA diff between 100 and 1000 yards is right around 50. There is recoil, but it is accurate.

[murf205]

271780 If you have any on hand, here is a list of loads using 2400 powder that a member here sent to me. As far as whether or not to use a GC, my Marlin and my son's Ruger #1 both shoot the GC'd boolit more accurately than a plain base boolit but there is no leading at all with either design. I solved the dilemma of needing one or the other by having Tom at Accurate Molds make a 4 cavity with 2 of each. They are 461405D and 460405A designs, 2 of each and I powder coat but they didn't lead with normal lubing. Just remember that fit is paramount.

[gumbo333]

With a pc'd 405 gr boolit, both blue dot and red dot in the 1100 fps range shoot a bit better in my Henry than unique. The blue dot and red dot loads shoot to the same point of aim at 75 and 100 yards. Plenty powerful for deer. No kick, not a lot of noise, cool barrel. But unique will work as will H 4198 for a bit faster load. If you want 1500, try 4198. My boolits are not gas checked, I don't cast but buy my 405's.

[Static line]

271780 If you have any on hand, here is a list of loads using 2400 powder that a member here sent to me. As far as whether or not to use a GC, my Marlin and my son's Ruger #1 both shoot the GC'd boolit more accurately than a plain base boolit but there is no leading at all with either design. I solved the dilemma of needing one or the other by having Tom at Accurate Molds make a 4 cavity with 2 of each. They are 461405D and 460405A designs, 2 of each and I powder coat but they didn't lead with normal lubing. Just remember that fit is paramount.

Confusing picture. You stated 2400 powder but the page clearly says Reduced Unique Rifle loads.

[murf205]

Static line, you are absolutely correct, and thank you for catching that. I must have been having a senior moment. Does anybody know what manual this was taken from? I would like to have the entire book.

[Wolfmanjack]

12 gr of tightgroup behind a 350 gr hard cast slug works very well in my cva scout. Recoil is light and accuracy is very good out to 125yds. Accuracy kinda falls apart past that range. I have taken 5 whitetail so far with the load. 3 fell where they were standing, the other two made it 30-40 yards. The lee 405 grain shoots very well out to 200 or so with the same 12 gr of tightgroup but I get some leading with this bullet. My gun also appreciates this bullet on the hard side. I abandoned it for the 350 grained with the big meplat for hunting.

[405grain]

I wish I could give a stellar recommendation, but I'll have to wait. I've got a couple of hundred rounds loaded up of powder coated/gas checked RCBS 405 grain boolits with new starline brass and 37.0 grains of Reloader #7. But that crate-o-cartridges is waiting for me to finish putting a new barrel on a Sharps replica, so I can't say how they'll shoot. I do remember a buddy of mine gave me a batch of RCBS 300 grain slugs a long time ago, and those lighter boolits were real easy on the shoulder. If you want to get in more and better shooting, try a smaller charge of faster burning powder AND a lighter boolit.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Do yourself a favor. Call Wolfe Publishing (Rifle and Handloader Magazines 1-928-445-7810) and buy a copy of Handloader Magazine August 2007 #248.

There is an article by Brian Pearce on loading the .45-70 for Marlin rifles. There are literally hundreds of loads contained in that article from mild to wild and everything in between. IMHO it is the quintessential source for data for Loading the .45-70 cartridge with a wide variety of boolits and powders to different levels, (Pressures) by someone who actually knows what he's doing, and has more experience with this round than all of us put together!

It will be the best $10 you will spend on this project. I used that issue as toilet reading for a couple of years and I have easily read that entire article 100 times.

hope this helps you out?

Randy

[HoytFlinger]

Do yourself a favor. Call Wolfe Publishing (Rifle and Handloader Magazines 1-928-445-7810) and buy a copy of Handloader Magazine August 2007 #248.

There is an article by Brian Pearce on loading the .45-70 for Marlin rifles. There are literally hundreds of loads contained in that article from mild to wild and everything in between. IMHO it is the quintessential source for data for Loading the .45-70 cartridge with a wide variety of boolits and powders to different levels, (Pressures) by someone who actually knows what he's doing, and has more experience with this round than all of us put together!

It will be the best $10 you will spend on this project. I used that issue as toilet reading for a couple of years and I have easily read that entire article 100 times.

hope this helps you out?

Randy

I ordered this Saturday, but it is only available via a CD-ROM now. Shipping cost me more than the CD.

[fredj338]

I used to shoot 8gr of Unique with an over powder wad under a 300gr cast for CAS before they banned rifle calibers. It makes about 1000fps.