.44 mold is fighting me. Any advice?

[Evoken]

Gentlemen,
I am trying to develop a good hunting round for 44 mag. I'm using 2 different molds, and one is causing me grief.
Mold 1 is an ideal single drop 429421, this is a beautiful older mold I obtained from a gentleman on here. Right away started throwing gorgeous boolits as soon as it was heated up.
Mold 2, the ugly one, is a lyman 429255d double cav gas check. Also obtained from a gentleman here, used but looks just fine. I cannot get this thing to throw consistent, nice boolits. It will throw a few nice ones, but most. It is supposed to have sharp corners on the lube groove, check groove, and crimp groove. The bad ones have a rounded spot in one of these three places. I am not "site seeing", the temp stays consistent, and I think the mold is clean. I have even taken it apart and scrubbed it then sprayed it generously with brake parts cleaner, it should be devoid of any oils of chemicals. I want to like this mold, as I should be able to crank these gas check boolits up pretty good. However my casting session today left me with a few hundred 421's and only maybe 30 or so usable 255's.

Any ideas here fellas? I am using an alloy that consists of lead, coww, superhard, pewter. It is 2.4% sn, 2.15% sb, .03%as, and .03%cu. I am water dropping them to take advantage of the arsenic as a hardener, but tried not dropping some of the 255, no difference. I'm running the pot at around 600° and tried going as high as 650, any higher and I'm getting to much alloy separation.

Thanks,
Ken

[Dusty Bannister]

You are not going to get alloy separation. You might get mild frosting as the mold heats up, and that is what you need. Is this ladle or bottom pour casting? Is the sprue plate snug or loose enough to move easily, but not floppy loose? Is the stream free flowing or slow one the verge of dribbling?

Pressure casting several cycles with a higher temperature might help force the alloy into the mold and then you can cast in a more normal manner after you start getting good product.

[Evoken]

Dusty,
I am ladle casting with a bottom pour ladle, lyman I think. The sprue plate is snug, and I'm cutting it by hand with leather gloves not whacking it.
So I am pressure casting by ladle I suppose.
One thing I forgot to mention is the heat vents/ air vents in the mold seem to be wicking alloy. Some of the boolits are connected with fine hairs when they drop. The mold seems tight and even the hairy ones are about the same diameter. I'm certainly holding the handles tightly.
When I turn the heat up I start getting the dull gray powder on the top. I thought this was the tin oxidizing, and did not want this?

[Winger Ed.]

When I've gotten 'hairs' it was usually from the mold or pot being a little too hot making the alloy too thin in viscosity.

[earlmck]

That sounds pretty normal to me. Most of my molds fight me for the first several hundred boolets (or throws in the case of multi-cavity molds). I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy on "castboolits" who doesn't drop good boolits from the get-go. I don't even look at what's coming out until I've done at least 50 and that is just to assure myself that conditions are living up to my usual expectations.

Keep on casting -- eventually it'll start to throw you some decent boolits.

[Mitch]

Like Dusty said the aloy is not seperating. Oxidation is a normal thing.I run my sprue plates just loose enough so they run free like the weight of the sprue plate will swing free. this may or may not cut down on the whiskers.makae sure none of the whiskers pluged any of the vent lines. 650 is not all that hot.I would try hotter after you check things out and see how it goes then.My thought is maybe the whiskers are comeing from no venting under the sprue plate.And the little voids may be from a pluged vent line in that spot or lack of heat to get proper fillout.

[Mitch]

earlmck
Be sure you are not the only one lol.Some days the casting just is not going to go well.From what I see you learn more there are less of these days.On those days I have found i need to do something else.

[Evoken]

Thanks fellas. I will crank the heat up to 700 and see what that does for me. I tightened the sprue plate up because I was getting some fuzz around the base of the boolit. That seemed to fix that issue. However if the sprue needs to breath a little I can deal with the little bit of foil on the bases.

[Evoken]

Earlmck, I feel you. Some days at the casting bench have been exercises in futility, haha. Im.still getting the hang of this and have thrown most if not all of some sessions back in the pot for another day

[Bazoo]

I've had similar experiences with an ornery mould having rounded spots bands. With this mould the solution was to pour with about 3/4 freefall and as large a sprue puddle as I can get. I find if I let the sprue puddle run off the edge or into the other cavity, I'll get poor fillout.

[Ledhead]

I have a NOE ranch dog 2 cavity mold that I have issues with consistently filling the drive bands between the lube groves. After casting with nearly a 40% cull rate for over a year I discovered, quite by accident, that by reversing the order I pour all but eliminated this. I guess one cavity vents better wile the other needs the extra heat given when I pour the first.

[Wayne Smith]

Pressure pouring is turning the mold sideways, placing the ladle nozzle in the sprue hole and turning the whole thing upright, holding them together tightly. My Lyman 457122 Gould requires this, the only mold I have that does.

[Don Purcell]

Bullet molds are like little girls and sometimes you find one with a curl.

[Evoken]

I am pressure pouring them with a lyman dipper. I turned the heat up some and was running around 700-750 and it seemed to help some. I also loosened the sprue to see if that helped, it did a little. I am still not getting the results I would like to see, but I will keep working on it. I may try some different alloys and see if that makes a difference. This particular alloy works great in the 429421 single that I have and is throwing great boolits at around 256-257gr.
Perhaps that is the root of my cause, that this mold just doesnt like this alloy. I will get it figured out, although unless this boolit is a great performer I'm not sold on it. It is close to the 429421, but it is not the same and I really like that one and it performs well in my super blackhawk.

[Dusty Bannister]

When casting with the two cavity mold are you freshening the dipper between pours or trying to pour both cavities with one dip in the casting pot?

[Bazoo]

Try casting just one cavity a while and see if you can isolate the problem. Could be venting between the cavities is needed.

[abunaitoo]

Have you tried smoking it????
When I run into a problem mold smoking with a lighter fixes it.

[longbow]

You might try loosening your sprue plate if it is tight to swing open. I've had moulds that would not cast well until I loosened the sprue plate so it was just snug enough to not swing open when the mould was tipped. Loosening the sprue plate allows easier venting between sprue plate and mould blocks.

Having said that, check your mould venting to make sure it isn't plugged up as that could do it too. Use a very fine tipped awl or an Exacto blade to drag through the vent lines to make sure they are not plugged.

Also, what Dusty Bannister said about heat and frosting. I tend to cast hot and have some moulds that have to be used with hot alloy and hot mould to cast well. I like to see light frosting on my boolits!

Just my 2 cents worth.

Longbow

[Evoken]

Dusty,
I am pouring both out of the same ladle. Should I be re dipping?
Bazoo,
I will try running one up to heat then the other.
Albunaitoo,
I have not smoked it as it looked well used already. I will give it a shot though.
Thanks again fellas!
Ken

[Evoken]

Longbow,
I did take a straight razor blade to the vents hoping that they were plugged up. I will attempt again to mold some frostier boolits, this mold certainly won't defeat me.

[megasupermagnum]

I don't think your thermometer works. Lead melts at 622F, although your alloy should be lower than that, it would just BARELY be melted at 600F, and likely be slushy yet.

I like to start at 720F for a bullet like that in an aluminum mold, and 740-750F wouldn't be excessive. The whiskers you talk about are not necessarily a bad thing, if it happens to both sides and evenly top to bottom. If it only happens to the outsides, or only the top or bottom, it indicates poor venting.

[gwpercle]

Clean the vent lines and change the order of filling the cavities .
Are you pressure casting with a ladle ? If not ...might try as a last resort .
I get my best boolits with a spouted Lyman ladle and pressure casts .
Gary

[beagle]

If you're worried about plate venting, take a fine stone and lay a small bevel on each side of the blocks at the top where the mould halves come together. Not much, just several strokes. This will allow positive venting under the plates.
Whiskers indicate that the melt/mould is too hot and lead is getting to the cavity under too much pressure and too high of a temperature or the blocks are too hot. You may need to drop pour with the ladle and be sure to leave a big sprue as the bullet in the mould "cures" it will suck in some alloy.
Finally, the mould halves may be getting too hot. This will cause rounded lube grooves. Since it is a Lyman mould and a double cavity .44, that's a lot of heat to dissipate. Most of the earlier Lymans and Ideals didn't have generous sized blocks. Try casting one cavity at a time as has been suggested and alternate cavities. If this works and you get good fill out, the solution is to slow your casting tempo. Iron or meehanite moulds will only dissipate so much heat between casts. You run into that a lot with big bullets in small blocks.
Walt Melander had a formula that could tell you what would and wouldn't work but took it with him when he left the range.
Then there's the quirky moulds. I had a 457122 that would only make good bullets if it was tilted about 15 degrees during the pour. Try it level and it balked.
Slow down, try different things and enjoy casting. It's suppose to be fun and not work. Once you find the key to a particular mould, write it down and refer back when you use it next. Saves hair pulling and I don't have any to spare./beagle

[RU shooter]

Try just casting with one cavity , pour till full and pour a little more till the puddle overflows a bit , tilt block slightly so the overflow don't go into the empty cavity . if those rounded areas are all frosty looking the moulds too hot

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I have some molds that I can only get full fill out and sharp edges by using a large ladle and really hitting the pour. They just seem to want more pressure than others. It gets messy, but worked for me. I did on one large .45 rifle mold open up the sprue hole.

[Conditor22]

You can get any mold in decent shape to work well, some just take more work than others to get there

"hairs" connecting the cavities are caused by:
too hot a temperature
the mold not closing completely
too much tin
and pressure pouring.

The first thing I do when I have mold problems is to scrub it out with first acetone/brake cleaner then dawn dish soap Using a denture or toothbrush. Make sure to scrub the vent lines and clean around the alignment pins.

Residue in mold cavities can prevent good fill out.

Close the mold, open the sprue plate, and hold the mold up to a light and see if you can see daylight between the sides.

IF the casts are getting hairs the alloy is flowing well and should fill out a clean mold.

On a bottom pour pot, I run a squirt of lead through the pour spout every time before I cast, getting cooler lead in the mold can prevent complete fill.

I ladle casting I left the ladle in the pot to maintain pot temperature

Make sure to flux/clean the alloy well just before using.

The sprue plate should only be tight enough to swing easily and not show daylight between the sprue plate and the top of the mold.

Are you using a hotplate to preheat the mold? Preheating the mold to 400° will (should) get you good boolits on the first pour with clean alloy and clean mold.

I've been known to scrub the vent lines on a steel mold with a brass brush.

IF you clean the vent lines with a razor I would lightly hit both faces of the mold with a flat diamond hone/file or a small fine sharpening stone to make sure it's flat.

The flat diamond hone/file can also be used for what beagle suggested putting a very slight bevel on the inner top halves of each side of the mold.

Worst-case scenario you will need to Leement/ lightly polish the cavities, you can search this or ask about this later IF it becomes necessary.

[Evoken]

271603

I am starting to get somewhere now. I tried several of the suggestions in this thread as well as other places on the forum. Here are some of the things I did.
- i used a different alloy, very close to the other but with a little less tin and antimony, 2.2% sn and 2.03% sb. As this is a gas check boolit slightly softer should not hurt.
- cooled the pot down and slowed down my pour rate. Many said hotter, but if my thermometer is right I was down to about 575, which seemed perfect.
- this mold does not like to be pressure cast it seems. I drop poured and left a generous sprue.
All in all I still need to work on this one to get it down. I cast a few hundred and they look pretty good so far. I think I will end up with less than 10% culls, whereas before it was 40% or better. Thanks again fellas for all your suggestions and input, this place is great.
Ken

[longbow]

I'd still suggest loosening the sprue plate some if it is tight. if you pour fast the air has to get out fast. I have some moulds that the sprue plate and mould blocks are machined so flat and true they do not vent well so I loosen the sprue plate and that helps.

I have on some moulds also used a jeweler's file to put a teeny, tiny bevel on the top edge of each mould block under the sprue plate to allow venting. Same reason... air has to get out and vent lines are pretty small and long path. These bevels are just a few thou... think vent lines for size.

Increasing heat is easiest so the first thing you should do. Frosty boolits are not bad boolits. Like I said, I like to see a bit of frosting. It works for me anyway. If that doesn't do it then look at venting again and try loosening the sprue plate because, again, that's easy and reversible.

Another $.02 worth.

Longbow

[longbow]

Hah! I was a little late with that last post. Oh well!

Reading back I'd agree with msm. Your thermometer must be out of whack. To be honest, I don't use a thermometer, I cast "by eye". I can tell from the alloy oxide colour when it is ready to cast and I pre-heat my moulds until the sprue plate lube just starts to smoke which is a bit hot. The first few boolits take a bit of time to freeze (maybe 5 seconds) then the mould settles in and I can cast steady. The sprue puddle should stay molten for a couple of seconds after casting then freeze. I cut just as it freezes. That works for me anyway.

Looks like you are on your way now anyway. Keep at it and you'll figure that mould out.

Longbow

[Evoken]

Longbow,
I did take your advice and loosen the plate up some and it certainly helped my cause out. I thought that it needed to be tight due to the alloy laying a ring around the base of the boolit.
As it turns out the mould just doesn't like pressure casting.
As far as the thermometer, who knows, it is a new lyman maybe 2 months old. However it is just a junk made in china thing so it could certainly be off. I will have to check it with some boiling water, as I know what that should read.
I went through the boolit pan and ended up with a 12% cull. There were several that i culled that definitely could be shooters, but between the grief this mold has cost me and the fact you can't find primers right now (although I should have plenty) I will only keep the ones I feel are as near perfect as my casting skill allows.
Besides, melting them down and recasting them is good practice!

[megasupermagnum]

There is no doubt your thermometer is off. It shouldn't matter too much once you learn where you need to be. That picture you posted shows a decent bullet, but all the corners look rounded to me. This is typical of a bullet cast at too low a temp, as is being shiny like that. An alloy with antimony in it, as you are using, should have a light frost when cast at the right temperature. Some molds like pressure pouring, some don't. It could be as simple as your sprue plate wasn't hot enough when pressure pouring. You want a decent puddle on top of the plate to keep it warm.

I would recommend you turn the heat up some. Then cast at a fast enough pace to lightly frost the bullet.

[Wayne Smith]

You are learning that every mold is a rule unto itself. They almost have personalities and definitely have preferences.

[Bazoo]

Ain't that the truth Wayne. I have a lee 358-140-SWC, that I got used off ebay. It don't look pretty but it will make a good bullet every cast. No matter sprue size or lead temperature or tin or not. I got several that are a might ornery though and everything has to be just right.

[mnewcomb59]

You could try casting a lapping bullet through a nut. Take the bullet connected to the nut and coat with comet and spin it in the cavities. I have had molds that got a little seasoning in the drive bands where synthetic 2 cycle got baked on like a cast iron frying pan. It was pretty much invisible.

You might also consider putting a small 45 degree angle on the top inside edge between the two mold halves to let air vent under the sprue plate.

[Conditor22]

I think you need a new thermometer. 575° is really cold for casting any alloy. I cast from 680-720° except for pure goes around 750°

IF the sprue screw is too tight the sprue will dig into the mold and the other side of the sprue will start sticking up away from the mold.

many people hate getting lube/oil from lubricating the sprue screw into the nearest cavity so they don't lube it enough.

this is what happens to the top of the mold ( I was given this mold )

https://i.imgur.com/K2u3KRO.jpg

Glad things are starting to look up for your casting, --- just takes time, trial and error, and some outside suggestions for thing to try to find what works best for you and your situation.