44-40 heavy bullet question

[Ballard]

I see load data using 240gr bullets and Reloader 7 powder in the 44-40. Has anybody used this load? And what 240gr bullet have they found that feeds well in an 1873?

[Outpost75]

Speer 240 SWC feeds in my Winchester '92, but if want to cast your own Accurate has several heavier .44-40 bullets of traditional shape from 230-245 grains which will stabilize in the slower twist:

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The 43-230E and 43-245C have adequate lube capacity to avoid foulout with Goex powder and SPG lube.

[john.k]

I have used the Lee bullet,which casts around 250gr,and IMHO ,they dont stabilize past 170yds with the slow twist /low velocity from a 73...I get much better result from a 215gr bullet...which the gun was designed for.

[Larry Gibson]

In my 44-40 M92 and Ruger vaquero (OM) I use the Lee TL430-240-SWC and the Lyman 429 360, both 240 gr bullets. Both feed fine in the M92 but can't say they would in a M73 lever action. Suggest, if wanting to cast your own the Accurate 43-240A that Outpost 75 posted above would be my choice for a M73. The seating depth to crimp groove is more conducive to the shorter necks of the 44-40 case.

[Ballard]

Thank you all.

[Savvy Jack]

I don't know if I never used my 240gr loads in the 73'. I just can't remember right off. I will look it up later.

I did test a few though in the MGM and used them in the Marlin.

1. 25gr/240LRNFP/3D/1,300fps/9,613psi
2. 23.5gr/240SWC/Acme Hi-Tek/1,284fps/9,761psi
3. 26gr/240SWC/GA Arms L44A/1,441fps/14,274psi
4. 25gr/240SWC/Acme Hi-Tek/14,542psi
5. 26.5gr/240LRNFP/43-230G/1,505fps/14,737psi
6. 25gr/240DCHP/Speer 4455/1,350fps/15,248psi
7. 25.3gr/240LRNFP/Lee 3 Crimp?/1,446fps/15,279psi
8. 27.5gr/240SWC/GA Arms L44A/1,541fps/16,743psi


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Target 187 (24.2gr) Marlin 1894CB. This load should be fine for the 73'


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Target 220 MGM Barrel

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Target 223 MGM Barrel

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Target 225 MGM Barrel

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Target 232 (Middle Bottom) MGM Barrel

[Prairie Cowboy]

The late John Kort was the expert on .44-40 hand loading. This is one of his postings that mention that 240 grain hand load.

https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/240-gr-bullets-in-the-44-40.118717/

That loading is from Alliant as far back as 1995:

(240 grain lead bullet / 23.5 grains of RX7 / 1290 FPS (24" BBL.) / 12,100 CUP)

The nice thing about this load is that the low chamber pressure from RX7 makes it usable in any toggle-link replica Winchester.

The main problem with using a 240 grain lead bullet from available Lyman, RCBS, SAECO, LEE molds is that they are designed with .44 magnum in mind, even the cowboy bullets. The bullet nose is too long for the Henry, 1866, 1873 / .44-40 rifles. They usually work in the Marlin 1894 / .44-40 Cowboy rifles that were made though.

So, you need to use a bullet with a SAAMI nose length of .287" or slightly less. (crimp groove to top of bullet) As Outpost75 points out, Accurate Molds is a good source.
IMHO .285" being the ideal .44-40 nose length and .260" being a good metplat.

[Ballard]

Prairie Cowboy, you hit the nail on the head. This will be used in a 73 replica. I've found a good looking bullet with .28" nose length, but the meplat is .3". I'd like that fine unless you think there will be feeding problems with the wider meplat in the 73

[Savvy Jack]

Great info guys, thanks! I went back and looked and can't find any data were I used any of the 23.5gr 240gr loads in my 73'....and I certainly don't remember....means I probably didn't!!

Ballard,
One load I did use in my Marlin to harvest a deer was the Hornady 240gr SWC HP. Excellent performance. I will load some dummy rounds with various bullets I have and see if they will feed in the 73'.

[Prairie Cowboy]

Prairie Cowboy, you hit the nail on the head. This will be used in a 73 replica. I've found a good looking bullet with .28" nose length, but the meplat is .3". I'd like that fine unless you think there will be feeding problems with the wider meplat in the 73

I suspect that it would work, but I have no experience with wide metplat bullets in toggle link rifles, so I can't really say for sure.

[Savvy Jack]

Here, made a video of the 43-230G. http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-230G-D.png


VIDEO -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ux7-ubEhcs

[Outpost75]

Outstanding!~ That's my multi-purpose .44 boolit design Tom made for the .44 Russian, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .44-40 WCF.

The double-crimp-grooves enable using the rear crimp groove to seat boolits out long for maximum powder capacity in the .44 Russian or .44 Special, and also in the .44-40 and .44 Mag. Ruger original Vaqueros having longer cylinders, whereas the front crimp groove maintains correct cartridge OAL for magazine feeding in the lever-actions and also to fit the cylinder of Gen1 Colt SAs and the New Service.

Tom made for another customer the 43-230G2 with a smaller meplat. The two drawings compared:

271702271703

[Savvy Jack]

Outstanding!~ That's my multi-purpose .44 boolit design Tom made for the .44 Russian, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .44-40 WCF.

The double-crimp-grooves enable using the rear crimp groove to seat boolits out long for maximum powder capacity in the .44 Russian or .44 Special, and also in the .44-40 and .44 Mag. Ruger original Vaqueros having longer cylinders, whereas the front crimp groove maintains correct cartridge OAL for magazine feeding in the lever-actions and also to fit the cylinder of Gen1 Colt SAs and the New Service.

Tom made for another customer the 43-230G2 with a smaller meplat. The two drawings compared:

271702271703

Excellent Outpost, I will add it to the 44-40 website!!

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/handloading/bullet-molds/modern-bullet-molds

[indian joe]

We've been shooting a CBE boolit designed for the toggle guns for years - meplat is .310, crimp groove to nose .258 -.260
has worked fine in two 66's, an original 73, two 92's - mostly blackpowder but the crimp groove is located right for smokeless loads in the toggle guns .

Weighs 225 grains - I am a non starter for heavy boolits in the 44/40 - we had keyhole problems with this one ages ago - 35 grain load of wano powder - lacked velocity - I load black and in a toggle gun the extra lead takes up powder space - 200grainer kills a piece of paper just as dead anyways.

Now if you wanna turn a Rossi 92 into a shoulder deconstruction implement - big loads and heavy boolits - proly help that along:bigsmyl2:

You more likely to have problems (in a 92) with a semi wadcutter, the little ridge or step whatever you call it can snarl on the bottom edge of the chamber in some guns.

[8x33]

Using 240 grs boolits from a Lyman 429667 (they drop out with 252 grs) out of the mould and tumbled with lox work great in my Hege-Uberti 1873 for cowboy-action and target shooting at 50 yard/Meter.
Load is 5,8 grs Trail Boss (or 6,0 grs Unique).
OAL exact 40,0 mm, if longer you get trouble as they won´t feed....

Reloaders be carefull and use load data at your own danger!

[indian joe]

Using 240 grs boolits from a Lyman 429667 (they drop out with 252 grs) out of the mould and tumbled with lox work great in my Hege-Uberti 1873 for cowboy-action and target shooting at 50 yard/Meter.
Load is 5,8 grs Trail Boss (or 6,0 grs Unique).
OAL exact 40,0 mm, if longer you get trouble as they won´t feed....

Reloaders be carefull and use load data at your own danger!

fffft tink, and 50 yards is fine!, our problem was at 200yards with a combo that was well tried in close.

[Larry Gibson]

fffft tink, and 50 yards is fine!, our problem was at 200yards with a combo that was well tried in close.

Quite true. In the slower twist rifle with loads that just barely stabilize the loads giving a semblance of accuracy at close range are poor performers as the bullet stability drops off at longer ranges as the velocity slows down. With short bullets having FNs of meplats there is a point where stability is lost.

[Savvy Jack]

My MGM testing barrel is a 1:20 twist ;-)

[Larry Gibson]

Not a problem with that twist, it's the slower 1 in 30 somethings that give stability problems with the heavier bullets.

[Savvy Jack]

100 Yards
Marlin 1894CB 1:36" twist
240gr Acme Hi-Tek
24.2gr Reloder 7
20 shots

4" Circle


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[Prairie Cowboy]

All of this is really great information. It's nice to know that those 240 grainers will stabilize well out to 100 yards, even with a 1:36 twist.

Also great to know that bullets like the Accurate 43-230G work well even if they are a tiny bit longer than SAAMI spec. That widens my choices of molds. :-)

[indian joe]

100 Yards
Marlin 1894CB 1:36" twist
240gr Acme Hi-Tek
24.2gr Reloder 7
20 shots

4" Circle


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mine was ok at 100 yards but they fell over sideways somewhere between there and the 200mark - about covered the target paper (2Foot square) . Wano power was part of it those loads only doing about 1050fps --- when you on the edge just a few more rpm's can make the difference - a compressed 40 grain charge might have been enough. Brass gun - I dont hunt with it - usually shoot it closer - 200grain boolits are fine.

[Savvy Jack]

mine was ok at 100 yards but they fell over sideways somewhere between there and the 200mark - about covered the target paper (2Foot square) . Wano power was part of it those loads only doing about 1050fps --- when you on the edge just a few more rpm's can make the difference - a compressed 40 grain charge might have been enough. Brass gun - I dont hunt with it - usually shoot it closer - 200grain boolits are fine.

Yeah, that's about all I can get with the 1:36'

Try a round nose and just load one at a time. Still really need 1:20 twist though.

[Outpost75]

All of this is really great information. It's nice to know that those 240 grainers will stabilize well out to 100 yards, even with a 1:36 twist.

Also great to know that bullets like the Accurate 43-230G work well even if they are a tiny bit longer than SAAMI spec. That widens my choices of molds. :-)

Be advised that I am using the Accurate 43-206H, 43-229H and 43-230G in the Gen1 Colt SA and New Service, but in Starline brass which is 1.285" long. Older Western, WRA and Rem-UMC cases may be as long as 1.305" and must be trimmed first or you may have issues.

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[Savvy Jack]

I have new Starline and Winchester that is 1.300". I have some old Winchester cartridges I dissected that are almost 1.309. I am amazed at the different case length I have run across.

[Hootmix]

Good shoot'n Outpost !!

coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

Desperado Cowboy Bullets
240 gr .430 , 20-alloy, 23.5gr Reloader 7 and CCI#350 primers. I shoot this in my 1873 Uberti/Winchester. It feeds flawlessly, is accurate and hits hard.

[Savvy Jack]

Desperado Cowboy Bullets
240 gr .430 , 20-alloy, 23.5gr Reloader 7 and CCI#350 primers. I shoot this in my 1873 Uberti/Winchester. It feeds flawlessly, is accurate and hits hard.

If I recall correctly, the "Desperado" bullets are cast from Magma molds. https://www.magmaengineering.com/PDF/BBOct132008b.pdf

25gr of RL-7 with a Hornady SWC HP makes one heck of a load. It is very powerful. BUT I used a Marlin, may be too much for the 73'. I never actually tested this bullet for pressures.

25gr I think it was.....At 65 yards, I hit a deer in his shoulder broadside. It turned 90 degrees and traveled the full length of the spinal cord and lodges in the hind quarter. I did not dress the guy so I have no idea exactly what it hit to turn rather than pernitrate all the way through broadside. Either way, the deer never took one step and was a bit overkill at 65 yards!!!

However, I did use the Marlin 1894CB. Later tests yielded 1,400fps if I recall correct.

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[Outpost75]

I trim both .44 Magnum and .44-40 brass to 1.285" using the Lee Quik-Trim and use the same bullets and loads in both.

Keeps life simple and the deer cannot tell the difference.

[Savvy Jack]

I trim both .44 Magnum and .44-40 brass to 1.285" using the Lee Quik-Trim and use the same bullets and loads in both.

Keeps life simple and the deer cannot tell the difference.

How do you get a roll crimp that short? Or is it in the 1.270's were they are too short?

[Outpost75]

How do you get a roll crimp that short? Or is it in the 1.270's were they are too short?

Redding Profile Crimp does the 1.285 cases fine, but not 1.270

[Savvy Jack]

Redding Profile Crimp does the 1.285 cases fine, but not 1.270

Ah yes, the Redding is awesome! I went and checked and I trashed almost 50 cases cause I trimmed them too short a while back. I think they were 1.278.