Another nice Jerry Cleave tool.

[marlinman93]

Jerry made the mistake of telling me his uncle Charlie Pool had made a breech seating tool that was a copy of the old George C Schoyen breech seater for Ballard rifles. He said he had copied his uncle Charlie's clone for a machine shop class many decades ago, and I asked if he'd consider making another for me?
So got a call earlier this week saying it was done, and that he'd forgotten how many strange, and difficult angles it too to mill all the required shapes to build the tool! But he got it done, and in his typical fashion, it's a work of art that's very functional too!
Here it is with my own Ballard #6 Schuetzen, rebarreled and modified by George C. Schoyen in the 1800's. This Ballard has Schoyen .32-40 barrel, his own set triggers, and a Schoyen palm rest.

https://i.imgur.com/5l1cFGzl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/R80h7Awl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ekEseFml.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iXZHgERl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/acBYcX8l.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nW9P1fal.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PTvbnwPl.jpg

It has enough leverage to easily seat any .32 caliber bullet into the rifling, and I was able to easily seat a soft lead .375" round ball into the rifling with ease to slug the bore using the tool.
I'm going to have Jerry make seater cases for several other calibers of single shots I own, so I can swap them to the tool to use on other Ballard rifles I have.

[marlinman93]

Bringing this post back to life since I just picked up another reloading tool also based on a George C Schoyen design. This one is a Schoyen style re-de-capping tool made by Werner Wolf. Wolf did a fantastic job fitting and finishing these tools! Maybe even a little nicer than the originals were! They are all nitre blued to a beautiful blue finish, and the two flats front and back polished out in the white.
This tool is for .32-40 caliber. Tried depriming and repriming some cases and it really works great!

https://i.imgur.com/uhJOGZCl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/AecGIibl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uhJOGZCl.jpg

[725]

Both sure look like high quality tooling.

[ndnchf]

Those are beautiful!

[marlinman93]

Those are beautiful!

Thanks! Wolf is probably one of few who made tools as nice as Jerry's.

[Ural Driver]

I have zero knowledge of those tools or their uses......but the do indeed appear to be well made. :grin:

[marlinman93]

I have zero knowledge of those tools or their uses......but the do indeed appear to be well made. :grin:

The Cleave tool is made to seat a bullet into your rifle's bore ahead of a charged case for what is called "breech seating". Breech seating results in a more accurate load as the bullet doesn't jump from the case into the rifling, and isn't affected by case length, crimp, or possibly misalignment with the bore.
The Wolf/Schoyen tool is to remove primers, and re-prime cases. Most shooters who breech seat their bullets also use the re-de-capper tool to remove primers, and seat new primers.
In using these two tools together, a person could shoot almost forever with just one empty brass cartridge, primers, some powder, and bullets. Most breech seating shooters do just that, and will shoot the same single case as long as the case is still good.
These two Schoyen style tools, along with a Schoyen powder measure, would have been what shooters used over 120 years ago, and still do today using modern equivalents of the same.
Schoyen powder measure:
https://i.imgur.com/PGrVMdC.jpg?1

[Green Frog]

You guys out there on the Left Coast seem to find a lot of really great old tools. Those three tools and a lube pump with an insert to fit your desired bullet and you’re good to go. Of course it’s good to have a couple spare cases in case some tanglefoot steps on the one you’re using! ;)

Froggie

[toot]

price range, for them?

[marlinman93]

You guys out there on the Left Coast seem to find a lot of really great old tools. Those three tools and a lube pump with an insert to fit your desired bullet and you’re good to go. Of course it’s good to have a couple spare cases in case some tanglefoot steps on the one you’re using! ;)

Froggie

Both of these came from different people in New York Charlie!
I have a lube pump too, but one of those lesser known Pope models.

[marlinman93]

price range, for them?

I wont post what I paid, but happy to post what they usually go for.

The Cleave tools for most single shots run around $150-$200. But Jerry wont build them for a Ballard anymore, as the work takes far more time, and he's not interested.
The Wolf-Schoyen re-de-cappers run around $150 if you can find them used. Not sure if Werner Wolf is alive still, but he's not making them anymore.
Schoyen-Peterson duplex powder measures are the holy grail of collectible loading tools! Not enough show up for sale to say they run a certain price. But I've seen a few sell in the $1500-$2500 range. Also missed one at Denver a couple years ago that was minty, and sold for $250. I almost cried. And saw another sell at a big auction for $3,000. So not an easy one to pin a price range on usually.

[atvguns]

Looking for contact info to purchase some of the Jerry cleave tools

[marlinman93]

Looking for contact info to purchase some of the Jerry cleave tools

PM Sent

[Green Frog]

For a while about 20 years ago someone else started making a re-and de- based on the Schoyen design, and sold by CPA to use with their rifles. I don’t know who that was or whether they are still in business, but it would be worth checking on. I need to find something myself in 38/357 (Dell) to complete a shooting kit for a friend.
Froggie

[Green Frog]

PS somebody once made one cut for standard RCBS shell holders. I’d love to find one of those!

[marlinman93]

PS somebody once made one cut for standard RCBS shell holders. I’d love to find one of those!

The Meacham version is made to accept RCBS shellholders. It still requires different rods for different diameter case mouths, and of course small and large primer rods. But the shell holders change faster.
I own a Meacham and they are color cased, so pretty. Not jewelry like Jerry Cleave's tools are though.

[marlinman93]

For a while about 20 years ago someone else started making a re-and de- based on the Schoyen design, and sold by CPA to use with their rifles. I don’t know who that was or whether they are still in business, but it would be worth checking on. I need to find something myself in 38/357 (Dell) to complete a shooting kit for a friend.
Froggie

Those would be Werner Wolfe's tools. I have a Wolfe, and also another that was either copying Wolfe, or the Schoyen tool. The 2nd was made by a guy in California, and it has a sheetmetal rest added to one side to keep your hands from sliding up towards the shell holder. It works well and really makes it comfortable, but not very attractive, just very functional.
But like the Schoyen tools, the Wolfe is strictly one cartridge, since the shell holder area is part of the tool.

[fa38]

Does the acorn shape on the ends of the handles work to expand the case mouth. I thought I heard that was the purpose of the acorns.

[marlinman93]

Does the acorn shape on the ends of the handles work to expand the case mouth. I thought I heard that was the purpose of the acorns.

No, they're too small for the cartridge it's made for. I suppose that might work for some, but then how would one crimp afterwards? The acorns on the end are purely aesthetic to make the handles look nicer.
On the various copies of the Chick tool made by Pope, Simmons, Pool, and Cleave, the ends of their handles are hollow and accept small screwdriver tips that fit large and small primer pockets, so they can be used to clean pockets in between shots.

[Green Frog]

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread… if I were truthful, the thing that most attracted me to the Schuetzen game was not necessarily the actual shooting. It was all the neat toys that came with it! I couldn’t wait to get my first Jake Simmons re-& decapper with shell head and rod for a couple of classic calibers, then an antique Ideal iron bodied powder measure with original pre war micrometer adjustment, and then it was all downhill from there! A couple of the prettiest tools I ever owned were a Joe Ruth copy of the brass Pope bullet lube pump and a mostly brass re- & de- that was an adaptation of a less well known Schoyen design. It’s been a long strange road, but what a ride! :bigsmyl2:
Froggie

[Green Frog]

Observation: I bet Jerry got an “A” in that machine shop class. That man is an artiste with the machine tools.
Froggie

[marlinman93]

Observation: I bet Jerry got an “A” in that machine shop class. That man is an artiste with the machine tools.
Froggie

I think Jerry's "machine shop class" was working with and learning from his uncle Charlie Pool.