Blood trails

[nagantguy]

Been wondering about this for a while and being laid up from surgery and lots of time to think it been my experience that deer seem to bleed less when shot with a muzzle loader compared to cartridge arms or even arrows.
For years until just recently all of my deer hunting was with a muzzle loader and those shots that weren’t a bang flop just seem to less blood on the ground. My sample
Size includes both in line and Hawkin style arms and several styles of projectile from cast to Barnes to powerbelt sabots and full bore slugs. Anyone else notice this ?

[curdog007]

Double lung 'em with a big round ball. Never had a shortage of blood. Most times out both sides.

[ShooterAZ]

I've never noticed that they bled any less when shot with a muzzleloader. I have even had some bang flops and lots of blood with a .457 pure lead round balls from a Ruger Old Army. Hit them right and they'll bleed out big time. One of my other muzzleloaders is a Lyman Deerstalker in 54 Caliber, usually big exit wounds with lots of blood.

[Ateam]

The old hornady plains bullet, 410 grain I think, gave me the best blood trail I have ever seen. Double lung, like a red paint sprayer out both sides. Was more than 10 years ago and I still remember it well. 50 cal side lock, 80 grains pyrodex.

[Hogdaddy]

.490 Round all does wonders,, They put down a good blood trail also. ; )
H/D

[bmortell]

probably random enough to get false patterns

[CastingFool]

You hit them high up in the chest cavity with whatever you're shooting, and they won't leave a good blood trail. They simply bleed internally. I once shot a buck with a 12 ga slugger, low on the chest and it ran off spraying blood out of both sides like a firehose. It ran all of 25 yrs and it was done.

[megasupermagnum]

Yeah, with a Hornady FPB. That bullet is junk. There are so many Powerbelt bullets I can't speak for all, but everyone I've known who used them had one issue or another eventually. A round ball leaves a great blood trail.

[RU shooter]

Hit deer with center fire jacketed , arrow , round ball and maxi ball had some bleed more than others with all of them like was just said if high on the lungs don't leave much of a trail all depends where you hit them and what you tear up on the insides

[brewer12345]

My theory is that the higher you hit them, the longer it takes for the cavity to fill up before they leave a trail. Doesn't really matter what you hit them with. The button buck I nailed with a 54 round ball via Texas heart shot left more of a trail than the doe last year that was hit in the boiler room high up with the same rifle (except when she fell over and sprayed a gallon of blood near where she fell). The best thing I can say about 54 ML kills is that they don't make it very far with a huge hole through their important bits.

[charlie b]

FWIW, the Hornady Great Plains bullet is like a semi-wadcutter. Has a sharp shoulder that cuts a hole like a paper punch. Also my preferred shape for hunting with a handgun.

[siamese4570]

I'm with brewer12345, you hit them high and it takes a while for the chest cavity to fill up and leak. Usually happens when you shoot them from ground level. That's the nice thing about hunting from a elevated stsnd, the exit hole is low on the deers side. Just my $0.02 worth.
siamese4570

[megasupermagnum]

I'm with brewer12345, you hit them high and it takes a while for the chest cavity to fill up and leak. Usually happens when you shoot them from ground level. That's the nice thing about hunting from a elevated stsnd, the exit hole is low on the deers side. Just my $0.02 worth.
siamese4570

There's two ways of looking at that. Sure, maybe an elevated stand can offer a low exit. Personally that isn't something I concern myself with. An elevated stand also greatly reduces the target area that will put the bullet or arrow through both lungs. On the ground, you have a huge area to hit. I'd estimate an average size deer lung, you have a 14"x10"ish window that will result in a double lung shot. Compare that same deer to an elevated shot, and you might be looking at a 10"x6" target, or else you may only get one lung.

[MrWolf]

Hit deer with center fire jacketed , arrow , round ball and maxi ball had some bleed more than others with all of them like was just said if high on the lungs don't leave much of a trail all depends where you hit them and what you tear up on the insides

Seen hits with crossbow using Rage broadheads that leave a 2" wound. One was a lung shot with no blood trail that took to long to find. Another was a heart shot with a great blood trail and went maybe 25'. Another heart shot no trail but only went maybe 25'. Guess it depends.

[idahoron]

The old Hornady 410 gr 50 cal flat point was my go to bullet for many years. I shot a lot of game with them, and for the most part thought they did okay. But after a few experience's with them not anchoring the animal I had to switch. Both of these bullets came out of the same deer. The bullets showed poor penetration on a chest shot deer.

https://i.imgur.com/xO4JRud.jpg

One weighs 350 and the other is 380. The deer was still on his feet and had to be chased down and finished off. These bullets were under the hide when I found them.

https://i.imgur.com/5sEtYeV.jpg


This next deer was hit a little high in the chest and left almost no blood. Again that was due to the high chest shot. But the deer didn't even show signs of being hit.

https://i.imgur.com/s9spWaE.jpg

This last buck was the first animal killed with the Lee 500 S&W bullet paper patched. The shot was 150 yards. The bullet slammed the buck to the ground and exited the animal. These bullets are slightly harder than pure. Somewhere around 6 to 7 BHN. They have a wide meplate that does indeed provide shock power to the animal. Most of the game shot with that bullet either die right there or don't go very far. Usually the blood trail is substantial. I have only found two of these bullets in over 12 years hunting. Both were found in elk.

https://i.imgur.com/daB0nu9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/H1Jkg7v.jpg

What I came to find out was the Hornady bullets are very soft. On my cabine tree tester they run .018 to .024 on the dial indicator. Not all testers are the same when it comes to hardness. Cabine tree will see a soft 5 or a hard 5 on pure. The Hornady 410's I tested were on the very soft side. Over expansion in my opinion was a big issue with the bullets not penetrating as far as they should on game.

The hollow point Hornady in my opinion is not a game bullet. I am sure many animals are killed with them, but I personally wouldn't trust a possible once in a life time elk hunt on them.
This year I shot a bull with my paper patched bullets. The 458 grain bullet still weighed 454 grains after putting the elk down where he stood with a high shoulder shot that broke the spine.

https://i.imgur.com/V71Mr4N.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9a42XIw.jpg

Factory bullets for game hunting are, again in my opinion are sub par. Most are butter soft and over expand, or are butter soft and have a hollow point that again is not needed.
Moulds like the REAL are very pointed and have little to no MEPLAT to provide some shock to the animal. Some will say that muzzleloaders have no shock power. That is false, I have seen it many, many times.

[nagantguy]

IdahoRon, similar experiences- even with good hits, not talking about bullet/boolit failure as all deer I’ve shot have been recovered and most didn’t even go far- about half were bang flop. But mostly from the ground mostly just slowly walking along the creeks and drainages of MI large cedar swamps even with jellied lungs and hart it just seems to me I don’t get a substantial blood trail and what really got my wheels turning on this is being laid up surgery and as much as I don’t like the high production high fence hunting shows I do like some Tim Wells and Zacks Hunting the public. I’ve heard both mention the phenomenon I’ve experienced. Side note if your not familiar with hunting the public it’s just a group of young guys all
Good friends that do deer drives/ spot and stalk hunts all on public land across several states . I like that they strive to make human kills, freely show all the hunts that end without even seeing a deer or getting busted or missing a running deer or drive a deer to another hunter who isn’t part of their party ect. And I really like how well they work together- example they see deer run East during on of their drives so they quickly split up and try to intercept and lay a hasty ambush- some times it works often not but it’s real hunting.

[RU shooter]

Seen hits with crossbow using Rage broadheads that leave a 2" wound. One was a lung shot with no blood trail that took to long to find. Another was a heart shot with a great blood trail and went maybe 25'. Another heart shot no trail but only went maybe 25'. Guess it depends.

Both me and my father use those Rage blades on our cross bows . With similar results that you said . All killed but some bled out more than others

[waksupi]

With a round ball I've never had a deer go over 20 yards, so tracking isn't an issue.

[brewer12345]

With a round ball I've never had a deer go over 20 yards, so tracking isn't an issue.

My two round ball deer have gone 50 to 75 yards, but both were less than ideal hits and they did all the running in the 30 seconds after being hit.

[John McCorkle]

The old Hornady 410 gr 50 cal flat point was my go to bullet for many years. I shot a lot of game with them, and for the most part thought they did okay. But after a few experience's with them not anchoring the animal I had to switch. Both of these bullets came out of the same deer. The bullets showed poor penetration on a chest shot deer.

https://i.imgur.com/xO4JRud.jpg

One weighs 350 and the other is 380. The deer was still on his feet and had to be chased down and finished off. These bullets were under the hide when I found them.

https://i.imgur.com/5sEtYeV.jpg


This next deer was hit a little high in the chest and left almost no blood. Again that was due to the high chest shot. But the deer didn't even show signs of being hit.

https://i.imgur.com/s9spWaE.jpg

This last buck was the first animal killed with the Lee 500 S&W bullet paper patched. The shot was 150 yards. The bullet slammed the buck to the ground and exited the animal. These bullets are slightly harder than pure. Somewhere around 6 to 7 BHN. They have a wide meplate that does indeed provide shock power to the animal. Most of the game shot with that bullet either die right there or don't go very far. Usually the blood trail is substantial. I have only found two of these bullets in over 12 years hunting. Both were found in elk.

https://i.imgur.com/daB0nu9.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/H1Jkg7v.jpg

What I came to find out was the Hornady bullets are very soft. On my cabine tree tester they run .018 to .024 on the dial indicator. Not all testers are the same when it comes to hardness. Cabine tree will see a soft 5 or a hard 5 on pure. The Hornady 410's I tested were on the very soft side. Over expansion in my opinion was a big issue with the bullets not penetrating as far as they should on game.

The hollow point Hornady in my opinion is not a game bullet. I am sure many animals are killed with them, but I personally wouldn't trust a possible once in a life time elk hunt on them.
This year I shot a bull with my paper patched bullets. The 458 grain bullet still weighed 454 grains after putting the elk down where he stood with a high shoulder shot that broke the spine.

https://i.imgur.com/V71Mr4N.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9a42XIw.jpg

Factory bullets for game hunting are, again in my opinion are sub par. Most are butter soft and over expand, or are butter soft and have a hollow point that again is not needed.
Moulds like the REAL are very pointed and have little to no MEPLAT to provide some shock to the animal. Some will say that muzzleloaders have no shock power. That is false, I have seen it many, many times.Any chance these would stabilize out of a 1:48 twist?


Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[Winger Ed.]

Something that might have an effect on the amount of blood coming out is the larger diameter of the hole
compared to a spire point in the smaller than ML calibers.

I'd expect a ML ball makes bigger holes than say a .30cal.

[idahoron]

Any chance these would stabilize out of a 1:48 twist?


Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

No they are too long to do well in that slow of a twist. 1-32 is about the slowest that will stabilize.

[Geezer in NH]

Mine using a Patched round ball do not leave much of a blood trail but the drop before leaving one. 10 -15 yards at most.

Shoot when in a vital shot is most important same as with arrows. Modern arms and jacketed bullets do the same with attention to strike point and not random shots at the whole deer.

Gut shot is gut shot by whatever weapon.

Learn to track. get a light if you need to that shows the blood, or a dog that can trail when legal.

But shot placement is truly #1 any other is excuses of failure.