I need advice with Logic automation programing [Archive]

Three44s

11-08-2020, 11:48 AM

I have a problem: Too many elk

Yes I know eat them! Well it ain’t that simple!

First this is Deeded land on a Reservation. The hunting that occurs is strictly by enrolled Tribal members. I have quite a few qualified hunters but I have more elk than hunters and they eat my alfalfa in the summer and destroy what they missed during the summer by getting at in the winter in the hay stacks.

Let me be clear, while hunting is an integral part of our survival in fending these elk away it is at best, part of a larger strategy. I am talking numbers of 100 head on the fields during the summer and 200 to as high as 300 head hitting our hay stacks in rather winter.

Fencing the hay stacks is the only long term sure fire solution but the cost of fencing the fields would be prohibitive.

We have done hazing to a fault and the elk win under any scenario. Enter technology!

I have Thermal vision, a grand view of the marauding animals though the distance is from 1200 to 2500 yds. I can now send a radio transmission control to every inch of it via Pyro technics firing controllers and I have access to plenty of good and legal non-lethal ordinance.

What I need is coding for logic boards to bridge the gap from my 6v DC impulse (pyro firing device) to a series delay timers that branch out to not only the launching of pyrotechnics but ALSO lights, sounds and motion devices.

Elk are smart and trust me: They get wise fast! You do not deter them with a monotonous droning repetitive series of deterrents.

As I have been speaking with a lot of folks locally and researching what is available and the respective costs of each component, the two most likely contenders are the logic board series Arduino and the micro computer, Raspberry Pi.

I see applications for agriculture FAR BEYOND my elk problem but for now what I need is guidance to locate coding as close to my needs and then to modify it to suit my problem.

The exact operation I need a logic board/micro computer to do is when a low voltage DC impulse is triggered, a logic board relays that signal to a series of delay timers set according to a set sequence. The next time I send that same impulse to the board, it sends an impulse to another series of delay timers. Next time another set of timers get the nod.

If I could get 7 or 8 different responses in a row before the board resets back to the beginning series of delay timers I would be satisfied. More options would be welcome however.

Three44s

dangitgriff

11-08-2020, 12:48 PM

MrHarmless

11-08-2020, 01:07 PM

All these things could be programmed out with an Arduino, although you'd probably need to expand the I/O Pins for as many pieces there are in play. I consider the Arduino to be a little more approachable, but essentially you're just looking at learning to trigger pin outs, and code some logic for sequencing and reset, which is actually not too hard. I'm fairly certain pin outs on Arduino are limited to 5 volts, so you may need some relays/bipolar junction transistors to properly trigger pyrotechnics. If you're doing this over a large area, you may need to look into Bluetooth to avoid hard wiring everything.

Three44s

11-08-2020, 01:39 PM

Holy moly, you are into this thing up to your eyeballs. [emoji872] [emoji872]
Consider visiting the nearest technical college and speak with whoever teaches software programming/coding. Ask for some help from the undergrad students. This could potentially be considered a graded lab project by the teacher.
Good luck,
—Griff

Been there tried that. I think like you it is a bang up idea and my County is 9th in the US for gross farm receipts. We have a lot of Ag vs wildlife issues not just counting elk.

But the interest is there but I have made a direct hit there, still working on it

trebleplink

11-08-2020, 02:05 PM

Arduino is the easiest. Its outputs only source 20 milliamps or so, so use logic level Mosfet transistors which will go full on with 5 volts.

Three44s

11-08-2020, 06:18 PM

Three44s

11-08-2020, 06:25 PM

MaryB

11-09-2020, 01:26 PM

Three44s

11-09-2020, 09:30 PM

Raspberry Pi is the better choice, more outputs... it could be done without a micro controller using a counter that counts to 8 and resets, and use time delay relays on each output... or use a 555 timer circuit to drive each relay(probably the cheaper option).

Advantage of the Pi is a random number generator to vary what triggers every time it sees a trigger event. So it would be totally random as to what deterrent(s) go off each time. That way the elk will not see a pattern...

MaryB,

What I am envisioning right now is an Arduino or a Raspberry Pi tied to Arduinos or a series of on and off delay timers to control the various deterrents.

The logic controller or a micro computer needs to sequentially select a different series of timers each time I send a signal. I would prefer seven or eight different sets of timers before the controller loops back to the first selection.

I have built delay timers and other simple circuits on perf board before (the 555 is high on my list) so the act of building my own stuff is no problem and I see the easiest way to orchestrate each scene (a combination of noises, pyrotechnics and lights) in the near term is with a bank of timers. Certainly shifting the task from simple delay timers towards using logic to create more variability in the deterrence operation.

There has been a new development in this endeavor that occurred right after I started this thread yesterday. My Pyro guy called with a friend of his who is a programmer with experience setting up fruit sorting and packing lines. He is willing and eager to help us get this thing off the ground. He has extensive experience with Raspberry Pi but is also getting acquainted with Arduino as well.

He tells me that both systems have merit with our project and can be set up to work together and that they complement each other.

Even though I have someone quite promising who is helping us at this point, I would appreciate any and all comments and suggestions, so keep them coming!

Thank you and best regards

Three44s

popper

11-09-2020, 09:32 PM

I'm assuming you have a radio link to a remote processor(s) that trigger the squibs. Adrurino or PI would work but you don't really need much of a processor. PIC is another one. The coding is easy in C. Random number generator & timers are simple to code and probably already done on some of the blog boards. Think about the real problem, reloading the pyro. SIL had deer eating trees and roses in her yard, not much of anything to drive them away.

Three44s

11-09-2020, 10:43 PM

popper,

Yes, as I stated in the post opening the thread, I have two radio frequency pyrotechnics remote control systems. One borrowed that can support up to 1200 cues and my owned one that supports 12 cues.

As soon as the COVID-19 restrictions substantially ease, the loaned unit has to go home.

My owned unit (12 channels) will remain and that is what I am planning for a logic circuit to control.

Both units have identical receiver units with four output channels each.

Thank you and best regards

Three44s

dangitgriff

11-10-2020, 06:15 AM

Can you please post the make/model of your control unit, or better yet, the spec sheet for it? It would be tremendously helpful. —Griff

MaryB

11-10-2020, 05:07 PM

Easy enough to do multiple random number generators on the Pi. Could setup multiple channels with multiple random outputs on each... just a lot of loop coding...

Three44s

11-12-2020, 11:17 AM

Easy enough to do multiple random number generators on the Pi. Could setup multiple channels with multiple random outputs on each... just a lot of loop coding...

The programmer who has just stepped into this has a lot of experience with Raspberry Pi. The company he works for has been involved with automating a very large fruit sorting and packing installation. He told me involved Raspberry Pi from one end to the other, that shocked me.

But he seems to be leaning towards Arduino in this first phase. We just are not too complicated yet. Myself, I do not care what it is, just that it works.

I have no doubt that Raspberry Pi will be on this ranch before long, but I see an integrated package of Arduino/Raspberry Pi or some other recombination at that point because there are other “fish” out there.

Best regards

Three44s

Three44s

11-12-2020, 11:33 AM

Can you please post the make/model of your control unit, or better yet, the spec sheet for it? It would be tremendously helpful. —Griff

Griff,

Here is what I can tell you at this point:

Changsha Aixuan Electronic Equipment Factory

Web site: www.bilusocn.com

Email: bilusocn@163.com

It operates in the 433 MHz

There are no markings on the receiver other than “Bilusocn” and the words “magic effect”

I can add that I had a VOM hooked to it to see what voltage was running and while the receiver is live but waiting there is a lower dc voltage read. I was told that is likely because the unit tests for continuity on the fireworks hooked to it. The voltage was as high as 4v in an open circuit but often lower. Firing was read at a bit over 6 v DC when patched into a 6v scalded lead acid battery.

So I suppose there will need to be a threshold keep the continuity check feature from tripping the logic board inadvertently.

https://m.bilusocn.com/Shipping-From-USA12CH-Wireless-Fireworks-Firing-System-New-remote-function-4th-of-July-display-p825729.html

This the one I own, in spite of the 150 m range quoted we have reliably fired off at 100 yds past one mile in a condition I refer to a “super line of sight”

https://m.bilusocn.com/Shipping-From-USA-Bilusocn-500M-distance-60-Cues-Fireworks-Firing-System-ABS-Waterproof-Case-remote-Control-Equipment-p825784.html

This is the unit loaned to me and we tested it successfully at 2300 yds!

I hope that helps

Three44s

BamaNapper

11-12-2020, 04:25 PM

A quick look and I don't see any remote control ports on your transmitter. Too bad, a serial port would make it a very simple task. Another option would be to crack open the case and tack wires to the switches, then connect those switches to a relays driven by an Arduino or other single board computer (SBC). Firing a relay would be the same as a button press on your fireworks controller. The SBC can then implement all the random timers and fire the relays to simulate the button presses on the controller.

There are stackable 8 relay cards for the Raspberry Pi (R-Pi). You can stack up to 8 of them on a R-Pi for up to 64 relays possible. It would make a really compact, neat package. From there it would be a matter of writing the code to fire the relays in a manner that simulates running the controller with the buttons. The problem is that the relays use up all of the I/O pins on the R-Pi and you're stuck looking for another device to monitor your input lines and communicate with the R-Pi to to get things going. Unfortunately the R-Pi has plenty of horsepower but limited I/O pins.

The Arduino, perhaps a MEGA2560 would give you more than enough I/O pins to control all the relays you would ever need. It would also still have lots of I/O pins left to sense the triggers you want to monitor. The horsepower of the MEGA is limited, but would be more than adequate. The best part of the Arduino is that just about anyone can program them. I've done a number of projects in minimal time and I'm not a programmer. The down side is that they don't have stackable relay cards (they call them shields) for the MEGA. the cards that are available would need to be wired to the Mega and mounted in some sort of enclosure. I have found that the physical mounting is the hardest part of an Arduino or R-Pi project. There is a 16-relay card available that would work with most SBC's, Amazon part 'B0057OC66U', and you can use more than one of needed.

Since you have an experienced programmer you may want to consider the BeagleBone SBC. It's got all the horsepower of the R-Pi and a lot of I/O pins. It's a Linux-based device that allows you to use the programming language of your choice (C++, Python, etc). It's the best of both worlds but costs maybe $50 more. It could even be set up to host a web page for you to arm, disarm, and control the system with just a little more programming. Once you're into the magic code behind the project there is almost no limit to what you can build into it.

I wish you luck, it looks like a fun project.

popper

11-12-2020, 04:53 PM

44 if I understand you correctly, you have the radio remote link that triggers the multi channel (12) squib firing device. You want something between the RF receiver and the squib control so you can do a round-robin type sequence? Not hard to do with micro but then you need lots of squib firing devices.
If you want a (single) squib firing device to trigger ranks of squibs, that is tricky. Seems like most of the triggers use a current limited low voltage to verify squib wiring for 'test mode'. A single firing unit could be 'expanded' by using binary code to an expander but then if relays used, no test mode. Relay aren't cheap so transistors (FET) should be used - they do have a drawback as common neutral is needed.
Bank select from the RF link is easy with a counter/comparator, each 'count' word triggers a separate bank.
SIL lived next to the plantation east of Memphis, even a pellet shot in the flank didn't deter the deer. Elk seem to be the same. They stay where there is food. There is a semi-permanent herd on the golf course in Estes Park.

Three44s

11-12-2020, 11:51 PM

BamaNapper,

I need to clarify here.

The receivers have four outputs each tied the transmitter. When you push say button one, the output number one on the receiver goes to battery voltage, 6v DC, momentarily. As I see it you control a relay that signals a logic board and code written that causes what I call scene “A” to occur. The scene could be caused by a series of on and off delay timers adjusted to cause a span of deterrents operating in an orchestrated sequence consisting of pyrotechnics, recorded chases from previous engagements, lights and whatever else can be thought of and added.

You push button #1 on the transmitter again and I want the logic board to advance to scene”B”. A different set of timers with different formatting go to work. Push button #1 a third time and scene “C” takes place and so on ......

I would like to have 7 or 8 different scenes to run through. We could go with another layer of logic boards to replace the several delay timers involved. We could go up scale like Raspberry PI and have a micro computer scramble the sequences ..... But if I had some set scenes to start with I think I could get in those lead elk cow’s heads and send them packing long enough to give us time to get more sophisticated if necessary.

Thank you and best regards

Three44s

11-13-2020, 12:09 AM

popper,

I guess I could refer to the event I want to cause as a scene like a segment of a play.

You have got the round robin idea down I believe. Some scenes would entail pyro and some not. Besides Pyro, each scene would require sound and lights integrated into it. The reason that pyro would have to be omitted some times is due to fire danger in certain circumstances. Recorded gun fire might substitute if not relied too much then.

From each output pin I would have either a series of delay timers to lay out a particular scene which operate the various electrical powered items or in a more sophisticated system, logic boards.

The same sound generator and set of lights can be operated by more than one relay thus any number of relays could access those items since they are not perishable where as pyro is a one off tool. Other mortar and rocket tubes would be required, filled and powered through the relays tied to later scenes.

You are correct, elk are stubborn. We have tribal hunters that extract a toll. The elk are not fazed that much and return that same afternoon/evening. We then haze them away. During the chase we stop and fire rockets. They boogie then! The chasers have to sleep sometime, usually giving up by midnight. The elk find their way back by around 2:30 AM to the hay stacks.

I assist from my vantage point with a thermal viewer. The thermal advantage along with a remote control system like we are discussing here would be a big improvement and addition to our current technique.

Thank you and best regards

Three44s

BamaNapper

11-13-2020, 01:08 PM

I think I see what you're looking for. Control is between the receiver and the 'shows'.

I would still go with an Arduino at the receivers, coupled with however many relay outputs you might need. Relays are added 8 at a time.

271356

This would use the analog inputs of the Arduino to monitor the outputs of the receiver. Using the analogs will allow you to ignore any noise that might show up. The resistor values shown would be changed to work at testing. The important part is to use the voltage divider to cut the voltage in half so that the 6V coming from the receiver trigger is seen by the Arduino as a 3V signal to keep from blowing up the analog inputs. I show 1K, but would probably test using all 10K to start.

The relay outputs can be wired in any manner you'd like. They could pass the 6VDC as shown for your pyrotechnics, or simply use the common and normally open contacts to turn on lights, trigger horns, or open a garage door. Dry relay contacts are the simplest control method in my opinion when you have a variety of things to control.

A version of the Arduino MEGA 2560 is available with a micro SD card, or use the standard card with a shield that has an SD card. The MEGA provides far more I/O than needed. The SD card is handy to allow you to change your programming of the scenes without reprogramming the Arduino. Simple text files stored on the SD card could be read by the Arduino code. Perhaps a file for each trigger from the receiver. A file would contain a list of relays to fire, a delay time in seconds for each relay, and maybe another for how long to keep the relay energized. The list and delays could be a single line in the file. Add as many lines to the file as you want to match the number of scenarios you want to use for a specific trigger. The code can simply step through one line at a time with subsequent triggers, and go back to the top at the end of the file. Maybe that makes sense.

example line in a file (maybe a file named 'trigger1.txt'): 1/3/2/5 ; 1/7/10/2 ; 1/2/20/15 ; etc.;etc.;etc.;
(relay card 1, relay 3, delay 2 secs before firing, hold relay for 5 secs. Then card 1 relay 7 fires 10 secs later and is held for 2 secs. Then card 1 relay 2...)
That line could go on for as many relays as you want to put in the show for this trigger.
The second line in the file would have different relays and delays and be used the next time trigger 1 is received.

The Arduino code at each receiver would be identical, only the files on the SD cards would be different. When you want to change your scenarios, simply put in an SD cad with new files. I still say this looks like a fun project. I spent 15 yrs designing GUIs and writing control system software (obviously not Arduino-based) for boardrooms, classrooms and commercial venues. But I never did anything that would have been even close to your project in terms of fun.

MaryB

11-13-2020, 02:58 PM

Wish I could come help "remove" one of them to my freezer LOL love elk!!!

Three44s

11-16-2020, 11:08 AM

Wish I could come help "remove" one of them to my freezer LOL love elk!!!

Mary,

We give volume discounts!

Best regards

Three44s

Three44s

11-16-2020, 11:26 AM

BamaNapper,

Thank you for so much effort in your drawing and explanation. I studied your diagram and will share it with the programmer who is offering to help.

In my mind, and perhaps I am too simplistic in my thinking, I thought it would be a single output pin going to a relay that triggers a set of delay timers adjusted to play a suite of obnoxious stimuli to send our vagrant hay munchers packing.

Another output pin to a different relay tied to another set of delay timers set up differently to cause a variation from the first sequence but triggering several of the same devices, albeit a different order of play and durations and overlaps.

And another, and so on.

Let’s say button one on the transmitter sending that coded message to the corresponding receiver keeps calling up the Microcontroller to switch from output pin x to pin y to pin z and so on each time that single button is selected.

I do not know what buttons 2 through 4 will be reserved for yet but I have a feeling as we work through this some rotation of apparatuses and elevation control?

Thanks so much and best regards

Three44s

Three44s

11-16-2020, 11:32 AM

Update

I discovered amongst the many useful videos on the net a particularly helpful source:

toptechboy.com

I can see getting acquainted with coding myself. Paul McWhorter is an outstanding teacher in my opinion!

Best regards

Three44s

gnappi

11-16-2020, 12:34 PM

Yes that’s true and I am gearing up with some 6 v lead acid batteries because my RF receivers run off 4 AA bats. They have four indicator LEDs that burn while they are live. I figure 24/7 operation will cause me to have to change those AA’s often.

The larger rechargeable lead acid hooked to a solar cell will save money and hassle very quickly!.

Thank you

Three44s

Depending on your remote load, if you decide on solar and rechargeable, overestimate the wattage on the solar cells and Ah of the batteries because cloudy/rainy days may not charge a battery sufficiently if at all. After one or more cloudy days, a higher wattage solar cell will be more likely to top off drained batteries on the next sunny day.

Also an inexpensive charge controller (CC) in lieu of a direct solar to battery connection will keep from frying the battery with a safe charge voltage / current with the charge profile for the battery chemistry you select. A CC with a 24/7 load control will cutoff the load when the battery charge gets at or just below the 50% (or better still programmable level) state of charge. This will help keep you from changing batteries too often. Using a smaller Ah deep cycle battery will help too.

MaryB

11-16-2020, 03:45 PM

Keep in mind, unless you use lithium batteries the usable capacity of lead acid is half the stated amp hours to make the battery last more than a year.

BamaNapper

11-16-2020, 04:59 PM

BamaNapper,

I thought it would be a single output pin going to a relay that triggers a set of delay timers adjusted to play a suite of obnoxious stimuli to send our vagrant hay munchers packing.

Another output pin to a different relay.... Three44s

You could build timers, but doing it in the computer is far simpler. All of your timers are just delays and counters in software. If you built hardware timers apart from the computer you'd have to redesign when you want to change them. It's much easier just to change a file with a text editor.

Concerning the relays: They come on a card that has 8 relays. That card uses one pin from the computer to turn the card on (the 'enable'), then 8 pins to fire the relays. So it takes 9 pins to fire 8 relays. You can then add a second card by using one more pin to enable that card, but use the same 8 pins for controlling which relay on the card. So 16 relays takes 10 pins. And 24 relays takes 11 pins.

There's no end to Arduino videos for different projects on YouTube. I haven't looked at toptechboy.com yet, but I will.

Three44s

11-16-2020, 08:20 PM

gnappi,

Yes, I am cognizant about solar panel capacity. During the summer we are sunshine rich but in the winter when the elk are the most persistent, we have some very long stretches of fog and cold.

I am also aware of the need to regulate the charge from a solar panel and treat the micro controllers are very sensitive to voltages that are out of whack.

One grace saving thing about winter is that instead of trying to protect large swathes of real estate as in the summer, we are guarding a much smaller acreage and the batteries and solar panels will be doubled and tripled up, most likely.

Thank you and best regards

Three44s

Three44s

11-16-2020, 08:24 PM

Keep in mind, unless you use lithium batteries the usable capacity of lead acid is half the stated amp hours to make the battery last more than a year.

Thank you Mary! That’s important.

Three44s

Three44s

11-16-2020, 08:35 PM

BammaNapper,

To someone with your experience level, I suspect that Paul McWhorter (toptechboy.com) is too basic and that’s likely as it should be. But to me he covers things in depth enough that he does not lose me. He has just that spark if you will to keep from being boring.

I plan on getting a starter kit and following along from lesson one forward. I find that replaying his video a day or so later like the one he does to first introduce binary numbers was time well spent.

With regards to more microcontroller input vs. delay timers you are likely correct. I was just trying to limit the amount of skill set needs that I do not have (as in out sourcing) vs things I can and have done (build delay timers).

As far as redesigning the timers a lot of them use a potentiometer to adjust a time on or a length of delay. Others use a different level of capacitance and some utilize a combination of the two.

Three44s

Three44s

11-25-2020, 10:29 AM

An update:

I have been watching the top tech boy.com vids and made it through about half of the 68 he has on the Arduino.

It has been fascinating and my next step will be to get the starter kit that Paul McWhorter uses for examples in his Arduino series and actually work along from the beginning.

While I do not have any fantasy about being able to code this particular project anytime soon, nor even call myself a “programmer” in the long run, being able rough sketch things out or even follow along with a real programmer suits me.

After the time spent thus far learning some uses of an Arduino and following the code examples, a lot of the “fog” I had has been lifted.

If my goal were only this project at hand (giving the elk the heave ho) I would not even consider investing the time and energy to learn some coding and circuit building however as I studied the situation and came to realize some of the potential afforded by micro controllers and microcomputers .....

...... I came to the conclusion that I wanted to become more useful to any programmer that might help me going forward.

(at least I hope I become more helpful rather than being a distraction! Lol!)

Three44s

MaryB

11-25-2020, 04:39 PM

BamaNapper

11-25-2020, 05:31 PM

I came to the conclusion that I wanted to become more useful to any programmer that might help me going forward.
Three44s

PM sent

popper

11-25-2020, 05:49 PM

I did an Atmel project for Boeing, very familiar with the ARM system so if you get stuck, glad to help. Develop on Win Xp or 7, USB download code to board and go. Most of the dev. tools are free from microchip. Only need to install for AVR series. Don't need the PIC stuff.

Three44s

11-25-2020, 10:49 PM

With arduino you will find pre-written code blocks online you can use to speed up building a complete program. Like random number generation, there are several examples available online. The program simulator lets you step line by line if you want so you can see what each line does for input, output, math etc...

Mary,

That’s what I have been hoping for, that I would stumble into pre-written code that would fit my needs.

Thank you

Three44s

Three44s

11-25-2020, 10:50 PM

PM sent

Thank you very much!

PM etc sent

Three44s

Three44s

11-25-2020, 10:52 PM

popper

11-26-2020, 02:48 PM

Note: ALL these processors start with the outputs in UNKNOWN condition (on or off). Therefore any pyro controls MUST have power applied AFTER the processor is up and running!! I.E. an ARM manual switch (that RED one). Don't forget to DISARM before processor is turned off.
Happy Thanksgiving.

Three44s

11-26-2020, 06:08 PM

popper,

In my mind at least one pyro receiver will have to run 24/7 at each station while the elk are challenging us. If it will work, I would place other receivers on a timer relay to wake up.

Whatever the micro controllers need is another matter. If they have to run continuously, so be it. If they can sleep until called upon, that will conserve power.

Perhaps the relay bank is powered up separately, earlier, later, whatever is needed.

One pyro receiver unit has four coded channels, so I could power up in about Anyway imaginable depending on the systems requirements.

Thank and best regards

.45Cole

11-27-2020, 04:00 AM

I assume that elk feeding in the hayfields isn't a big problem compared to them feeding on the stacked hay. How large is the area you stack the hay? The whizz-bang show is going to work until you or the neighbors or the elk decide they've had enough, plus it sounds like you are running the show based on visual detection (I assume they are active from sundown to sunup as I normally see raiding parties in my area holding those business hours)

There are electric mesh wire setups now that could be energized with a good fencer on the hay around the stack perimeter that may work well. The hay will insulate the charge and I can only imagine how a wet nose or an outstreched tongue would conduct a nice shock.

In all things there is a driving force and a resistance to change; nothing changes without a sufficient driving force. Hay is good, elk are very hungry (driving force large) the resistance to them feeding has to be larger than hunger*hay and remain large over time. If elk are very hungry but the hay is no good, there is no driving force to feed on the hay. If the hay is good and they have to brave a light and boom show they may, but if the hay is no good then they may lose interest for good.

The simplest solution is often the best.

Three44s

11-27-2020, 11:12 AM

.45Cole,

There is no question that in the long run, a fencing system needs to be constructed around the hay storage area.

The green fields in the summer are more problematic however. For one thing, the amount of fencing needed would be prohibitive. We are in what is effectively a desert and when the grasses etc dry up by early summer, the elk turn their thoughts toward us. It is often that we have 100 head on our fields in early August starting in the evening (daylight still).

The elk create and use the same breached fence paths summer, fall and winter and I envision PIR and ultra sonic sensors as a early warning system that they are approaching. I give them enough time to get away from those entrances and then give them the business.

As far as neighbors complaint about noise, not much because they are way farther away than I am. This is not just a pyro based system either and often pyro can not be used as the dry conditions around the perimeter preclude it.

Where else will the elk go?

There is lots of other agriculture and beyond that they have a lot of State lands and an entire Reservation to hole up on. The bad thing is that this Reservation is stuck with perhaps 20,000 wild horses they can not control due to slaughter restrictions. Those horses are destroying the environment for the elk. On my side of the ridge the horses rarely go and the grass is way better.

As far as fencing the hay stacks the kind of fence really matters. I am not going to say your mesh idea has no merit but we do have conventional electric fence and the elk “laugh at it”. Luckily much of the soil conditions are such that I have been given an idea that leads to a very solid and less expensive solution that I will not go into here. This will take time though and in the meantime I need the summertime control and the same equipment relocated will assist us in the winter until we get the hay stack fencing figured out.

We can get the hay stacks effectively fenced and then the elk may turn to pawing and digging up the dormant hay fields as they have been known to do as well.

Our hay operation began there in the late ‘60’s and there were no elk bothering. We had a brief stint of 20 head about three different winters in the 80’s. But by the early ‘90’s things started to get worse and by 2000 things were full on.

The winters of 2015/16 and 16/17 were crushers. We had 300 head and 200 head respectively every night until the snow left.

There are some reasons for the change. The State of Washington had a legislative cap on the local elk herd of 3000 in the entire basin. That sunsetted in the early ‘80’s

The Wildlife department over restricted Hunter opportunity and the herd then (by their numbers) grew to 15,000. After a big ruckus they scaled back to a claimed herd of 9,500.

There is a lot of hockus pockus I figure because I watched an “expert” of theirs “explain” how they came up with their numbers!

A local rancher challenged their claim that the herd had been scaled back from their first number of 15,000 to the new number of 9,500.

The expert got laughed at in front of about 250 people!

I will give that one time to soak in. There is a back story on that one. I will tell it shortly!

Three44s

.45Cole

11-27-2020, 11:48 AM

Been around those "beautiful" wild horses that nobody wants to see reduced, until the discussion of how they fit in the environment has ran its course. Sounds like you've tried the simple solution and it doesn't work for your complicated problem. NW CO has elk problems (and horse problems too) but the elk are just lazy bums raiding bales as they are easy targets but there are many ranches. Sounds like you can't get compensation, can't hope they go elsewhere, and can't hope the feed pressure subsides (those horses really do well as feral animals out west).
It sounds like you have some money to spend, I'm an engineer and in college seniors have to do a senior project that's applicable to their field. You sound like you have a great senior project for a team and some funding to actually make the project go. Those electrical engineers can program, make boards and all sorts of fun junk, inc integrating the inputs to outputs with alarms, detectors and all sorts of stuff. They're also broke engineering students so they know how to stretch a dollar. I'd help you but I'm out of my element.

popper

11-27-2020, 12:50 PM

I looked at some of the example code, lazy ex-microsoft programmers from India. Header (*.H) files are for declaration/definitions,not runnable code. Very sloppy! Runnable code is in *.C files, not *.H files. * means whatever name.
Processor starts and:
1) set up realtime clock - used as a base for hardware timers.
2) set up input/output hardware 'pins'.
3) set up interrupt(hardware event) handler/priority.
4) set up a continuous 'loop' of commands (functions) that is the real program.
Most have a sleep mode that keeps the 'pins' in current state (on/off) and 'wake' on an event, timer or input from pins.

A 'function' is a bit of code that does something specific. It is the form of
return value function_name(variable_name);
Functions return a value that can be used in other functions. Variable_name is the variables used by (passed) to the function.
Each variable has a name and it's value can be changed. Fixed 'names' are declared so you can read english vs some digital representation. They are in read/write memory and allocated in header (*.H) files. Runnable program is stored in read only memory - the code you download. Hardware (I/O pins, timers, etc.) are named in *.H files. They have special read/write memory called registers. To turn a pin on or off, you write to the register which then automagically sets the pin. Read the register to see if on or off.
So you have code (read only) variable (read/write) and register (read/write) sections. The processor reads code, manipulates variables/registers or does simple math (add, subtract. mult. div.).
So, MCU has RAM (variables), ROM ( code ), registers, physical pins, math processor and stack (RAM).
The stack (like a stack of papers) is used to pass variables. You want to add A+B+C=D so A,B,C are copied (pushed) onto the stack, the math unit pulls them off the stack, operates on them and the sum is pushed on the stack. Your program then pops the answer off the stack.
Same with register operation, register value is pushed (copied) to the stack, math operates on it and result is pushed to stack. Register value is popped off the stack in to the register.

The code you write is compiled (usually GCC) - actual values given to the variables you named, english code changed to machine digital code.
It is then run through a linker that sets the RAM/ROM sections. After linking it is ready to download to the hardware board.

Hope that helps.

MaryB

11-27-2020, 03:38 PM

45workhorse

11-27-2020, 05:02 PM

Zdfmjvbs,dgnbkajdfhydbvjmb,phlfjdjnxn
This is all I see when you start writing about coding!
Good luck with it.
college students seem to be the best bet, try and to patent it!

popper

11-27-2020, 08:58 PM

Mary, Atmel uses internal pullups but again, they are enabled in code. External is OK when needed - primarily to provide the power required by the driven device.
I played with the MicroChip IDE a bit (takes a while to download and install but it's FREE), works pretty good and has a simulator so you can test code without a board connected. Or debug code on the actual board. You can select the board you have and most of the driver code needed is put in the project. Driver is the code to run the MCU hardware. You still have to write application code.

Three44s

11-27-2020, 09:02 PM

Zdfmjvbs,dgnbkajdfhydbvjmb,phlfjdjnxn
This is all I see when you start writing about coding!
Good luck with it.
college students seem to be the best bet, try and to patent it!

Thank you!

I have been trying to reach a suitable educator and have not stirred the right “pot”. We have an excellent Trade School here (Perry Tech) and that’s where I began but they only do industrial stuff (PLC) and that’s out of my price range. They steered me to a High School teacher but he emailed back that it did not suit him and his class, go figure!

I was sent to another High School and that teacher has a brother who is an electrical engineer for the local power company and who plays a lot with Arduino on a personal basis.

Before I got busy with him, and other programmer came to light and he is in earnest about the project since he is a good friend with the pyro folks I am acquainted with. The pyro folks are looking at diversifying their retail sales for their product. The COVID-19 shut downs has destroyed their ability to sell fireworks shows. Agriculture is an essential service, we never shut down.

My ideas for the use of micro controllers run way beyond this elk problem or even other animal problems to ranch security and controlling and monitoring irrigation and even applying crop growing supplements through the water.

As such, I have decided that win lose or draw, I need to acquaint myself out of pure necessity with setting up circuits and controllers and also coding for them because my needs will outstrip the degree that other folks can help me.

As such I have been perusing the internet and gleaning what I can from the many free resources out there. As I dig deeper I can ultimately justify spending some money on online tutorials as need be as well.

I understand how that code looks foreign to a person. A couple of weeks back until I started watching some very good videos I was totally lost. I do not know much, but the “fog” has been lifted a fair amount.

Best regards

Three44s

11-27-2020, 09:16 PM

popper,

I will share your examples with the programmer who is going to assist us. I am getting some of your examples and still a quite a bit foggy on other parts.

Thank you and best regards

Three44s

dangitgriff

11-27-2020, 10:00 PM

When y’all get this thing figured out, do us all a favor and debug those damn electronic voting machines, would ya?
[emoji1783]

45workhorse

11-27-2020, 10:10 PM

When y’all get this thing figured out, do us all a favor and debug those damn electronic voting machines, would ya?
[emoji1783]

Amen brother!^^^^^^^^^^^

Big Tom

11-27-2020, 10:35 PM

Some things to consider before reaching out to a developer:
- How many devices need to be triggered?
- Do you want all devices to be triggered when motion sensor goes off?
- Do you want them to go off all at one, in sequential order or in random order?
- When in random order, is it o.k. to trigger one device multiple times?
- Do you need an "active time" per device (e.g. sound generator or lights)?
- If so, what is the minimum and maximum time you are looking at?
- If triggers fire in sequential order, do you want a delay in-between, if so how long/random?
- What is the "time out" between motion triggers where the whole thing "sleeps"?
- Do you need it to be user configurable or is a fixed sequence sufficient?

As others have already mentioned, this can easily be developed using a 8 or 16 port relay and an Arduino Mega. Hardware cost is about $50 (maybe $15 more if you want a small status display), it all would work on 5V and the relays can be used for any voltage up to 120V...

Three44s

11-28-2020, 11:27 PM

When y’all get this thing figured out, do us all a favor and debug those damn electronic voting machines, would ya?
[emoji1783]

I think the US Navy needs a leaky ship loaded with the jokers who pulled the illegal voting scam towed to an off shore bombing range. Toss some meat scraps around the area. Hey, sharks need to make a living don’t they?

Three44s

Three44s

11-28-2020, 11:29 PM

Big Tom

Thank you for the response and the PM!

I pm’ed you back

Best regards

Three44s

Mr_Sheesh

12-01-2020, 11:09 AM

Most of my career's been "Embedded Systems", making custom computerized things that do stuff properly and at the right time.

Mary B among others have good knowledge here. One concept that may help;

On coding, .h files are actually a very good idea, they let you set up definitions that can be VERY handy, and let you make the code more usable / reusable / useful.

For example, a .h file can contain definitions for which pins you are using for which thing, if you then need to change what pin's used for what signal, TRUST ME, it's a lot easier to just change one definition in the .h file than finding every hard coded use of that device pin in your entire block of source code, this helps keep programmers SANE! (OK, marginally saner?)

Imagine code where you had a definition in each of 10 .c files for the "Fire_Pyro_4" pin to toggle, that pin changes from A.4 to A.5 as it makes a PC board easier, and when you make this change you get 8 of the 10 .c files, but miss 2 of them? That way lies hair being yanked out by handfuls, screaming into pillows, head-butting walls, you get the idea - It's BAD. I've seen too many embedded projects in Process Basic or other non C/C++ languages where this exact problem caused huge horrid issues and near destroyed companies (Not my code as I detest basic LOL)

On lazy programmers, yep they "outsourced" (for cost reasons, a poor choice IMO) a lot of embedded work to Ireland and India, and now China, and as those coders too often don't have a culture of good work ethic and pride in their work (or years of experience coding things where if you mess up, someone could die or your company fold), the results are SAD. (I'm picky though.)

MaryB

12-01-2020, 02:37 PM

There is no such thing as a sane programmer LOL they are all wired on caffeine and ready to snap!

I have had to repair contract programming... I told one company no way to repair, it needs to be scrapped and redone properly with documentation... so they outsourced it again. I got a call form them a year later, "can you fix it?" NOPE you had the chance to have me do it right a year ago when I had the time. I am middle of a big year long project so you are on your own. And they had called a bunch of other programmers before me, they were blacklisted locally, nobody wanted to work for them.

dangitgriff

12-02-2020, 12:22 AM

I’m sure there is a financial threshold that intersects your motivation curve somewhere on the chart...[emoji3166]
R/Griff

Three44s

12-02-2020, 05:58 AM

I’m sure there is a financial threshold that intersects your motivation curve somewhere on the chart...[emoji3166]
R/Griff

Beyond the cost of the equipment the coding would be rather the more expensive portion of the endeavor normally. In this case I was gifted the bulk of the coding necessary to accomplish the task and more and the completing amount is arriving soon.

It all happened so quickly that it took me by surprise that I have not asked the person behind this generosity if is alright to share their identity here on the forum. When the time comes and if the person responsible is comfortable in my doing so, I will.

In any case rest assured that as of the past few days I have received the gift of a lifetime out of the blue so to speak from a most generous and skilled programmer. I can not thank this person enough.

I also thank the several folks here the Boolit forum much that have added to helping me along with our problem, it is much appreciated, some with code.

I stand in awe of you programmers, we as users of this equipment have little clue how much effort goes into programming, the dedication, training, smarts and sheer HOURS involved in writing extensive code.

When I received the bulk of this code for my project I was awestruck of the complexity of it. I had spent several hours with online tutorials on a particular web site I have mentioned before (toptechboy.com) and though I thought I could see a glimmer of the light, it turned out to be a reflection from entering “the tunnel” rather than a light at the far end. I am not disparaging the skill of the owner of those tutorials as I still value his efforts and generosity in furthering lay peoples understanding the science and art but I was kidding myself to believe I could cobble something useful very soon.

As to the economics, it’s there. Imagine a crop that put up well that’s worth north of $200 per ton and 100 head of elk eating it up from late July until it stops growing and then that herd doubling or tripling and returning after significant snow fall to eat and destroy what they missed while it was growing by attacking the hay stacks.

We have a system if you will where Tribal hunters harvest the elk within their legal parameters, neighbors haze the elk until midnight or there abouts and then the elk still return by 2:30 AM and do just about the same damage anyway. In 2016 we ran like this for seven weeks straight pushing 200 head every single night.

With the amount of hazing we had to do, I am certain that a remote control system will greatly add to our success which I already have the radio frequency portion successfully tested. The one link in the chain, a logic system remaining is about to enhance that.

I was using pyro with a fish line trigger and getting results but the lead cows were smart enough to walk the herd around the traps in the dark. You see they discovered that tramped snow, my tracks meant fireworks! I witnessed this from the thermal scope.

Without question, fencing the stack area is the only logical long term solution but it’s not easy or cheap. We get no help from State Wildlife as it is just inside a Reservation. The tribe is zero help. Only individual members and their hunting and it’s a big assistance.

In the case of the growing season damage, fencing the whole property is just not economically feasible. Enter virtual fence.

Best regards

Three44s

MaryB

12-02-2020, 03:40 PM

As you read the code and refer back to your website bits and pieces will start to make sense then all of a sudden it all makes sense even if you don't have the skills yet to do it. I taught myself basic on a Tandy TRS80 when they first came out. Wrote a scrolling text program to attract attention to them at the Radio Shack I worked at as store manager(I was 16!). Ended up taking it to the fair that yer and sold a bunch of them to farmers who wanted basic accounting stuff. Won the fairs award for best display in the technology building!

If you are serious about it buy one of the micros and play with it, plenty of simple tutorials to teach basics like make an LED blink(teaches I/O programming) etc. The Beagle Bone has the advantage of learning to output video to a monitor... it is a fun hobby and I have little micros doing stuff all over the house. Smart thermostat with a fan on/off timer for the furnace(fan is summer use, it moves the window A/C cool air around), another one does some ham radio stuff, and I am working on a low power consumption one to push my weather station data to the internet instead of leaving a PC idling all night long with just the weather program running...

Three44s

12-02-2020, 08:43 PM

You are right MaryB!

I see so many applications around the farm for micro controllers, it’s incredible!

I not only have issues with elk, but cougars as well. My wife runs a series of trail cameras so we can pattern the cats comings and goings. But it would be much more useful to have that information real time. We do not pay extra for cameras tied to cellular contracts. Enter micro controllers, micro computers and point to point WiFi! General ranch security is also a plus.

I need a weather station at my hay fields, particularity for wind conditions. Are my wheel line sprinkler lines about to blow away? Is it safe to fire off the pyro to haze the elk or is it too risky for starting a fire?

I inject micro nutrients in my irrigation water. Several of the materials are not compatible and I have to stand over the process and clean and switch products through an injection pump. The actual application of the irrigation water along with soil moisture monitoring real time. These are all in play!

I fully intend to have controllers to play with besides the working units for the elk and I believe that I should not just concentrate on just the Arduino series. I was just looking over the Beagle Bone series on the internet last night and been pondering the Raspberry Pi for a while now.

I have been studying the code that I have for this elk hazing project in the hopes it will sink in. I go between the definitions and the code.

The programmer has set up lots of descriptions along the way to school me as well and that is very helpful.

Best regards

Three44s

MaryB

12-03-2020, 02:39 PM

He didn't do the descriptions for just you. Good programmer document their code. Okay I get spun off to a subroutine... what the heck does this do? The last programmer didn't document it so now I have to waste a couple hours reverse engineering it, following all the variables... when a section of documentation code at the tops say this subroutine counts the defective widgets rejected from the line then lists the variables and which are internal to the subroutine and which ones return to the main program...

When you come back to some of your own code after a year it is a huge help too! You will not remember why you did something the way you did it... I write my comment code like a story that lists what comes in, what goes on in that block of code, and then describe what goes out...

Three44s

12-03-2020, 09:07 PM

MaryB,

You are correct, he did it for himself as well as us.

One thing I will have to watch in looking at higher level boards than Arduino is what minimum temperatures they can work in. We are not as cold as you are in the upper Midwest but we can get double digit lows quite often and I have seen -20F lows for a few weeks stretch to need to drive off 300 head and the goodies won’t fire up. The colder it gets, the more aggressive the freeloaders are!

Best regards

Three44s

Big Tom

12-03-2020, 11:55 PM

The Arduino boards should function well in -10 to 160 F, plus if you have them running, some heat will always be generated. The display on it will of course give up earlier... and the keyboard may freeze up too :-) As long as the relays make it, the functionality should be there at almost any temperature.

Three44s - Once it is complete, we can spend a few hours on a webex session and I can explain to you what each part of the program is doing. It is not overly complicated ;-)

I agree with the other comments regarding getting an Arduino or other micro-computer. There are many tutorials out there to get you started and if you start with changing parameters in a program (e.g. display texts), you will quickly understand more and more functions as well.

Only thing that is missing is the menu for the setting the thing up in the field...

Three44s

12-04-2020, 12:30 AM

Thank you Big Tom!

AND, Thank you BammaNapper !

Both have been writing sketches for Arduino code behind the scene here and I owe them a debt of gratitude!

This underscores what a tremendous forum Cast Boolits is and how great it’s members are and their generosity !!

Man are the marauding elk ever going to be in for a big surprise pretty soon? LOL!

I am going need to get a new A/V cable and figure out how to record it from the thermal scope so I can capture their awakening and share it with you guys. You can get some chuckles.

One of my pyro guys thinks that the Battle of the Valkyrie played during the hazing would be appropriate ..... ought to work here huh?

Three44s

Three44s

12-04-2020, 12:48 AM

Big Tom is a little modest here. His sketch is 10 1/2 pages and he has a menu section to add yet. From my feeble knowledge, it looks like a lot of his source code pertains to incorporating a key board and an LCD screen so I can make changes to variable values in the field and that will be valuable indeed!

BammaNapper is setting up his sketch for incorporating an SD card with the flexibility afforded by switching or rewriting on those cards, again most valuable.

Whoo Hoo!

Three44s

MaryB

12-04-2020, 04:13 PM

A small cooler to contain the electronics will keep it warm from waste heat, add a way to vent it in summer and it will keep it cooler because it is protected from the sun.

Three44s

12-04-2020, 08:28 PM

A small cooler to contain the electronics will keep it warm from waste heat, add a way to vent it in summer and it will keep it cooler because it is protected from the sun.

That’s a great idea!

Thank you!

Three44s

MaryB

12-05-2020, 04:07 PM

I am known for reusing old nasty coolers, this one I found on the side of the road with some broken beer bottles in it...

Now doing duty as my ham radio lightning protection panel and cable entrance to the house. The box is a relay box letting me only have 1 entry cable for antennas up to 50mhz. Then the higher bands have a separate cable into the house. Plus rotor lines, main ground for my desk enters there... added foam weatherstrip to waterproof the "door" since it is mounted on its side.

https://i.imgur.com/agvxmKA.jpg

Three44s

12-05-2020, 05:30 PM

MaryB,

Are you sure you weren’t a farmer in another life? LOL!

Three44s

Mr_Sheesh

12-06-2020, 02:42 AM

Three44s

12-06-2020, 10:47 AM

Reusing 'old junk', Nice!

I know a lot of neat tricks for making a device Arctic temperature capable, did that for the local university. Replace all electrolytic capacitors with tantalum caps, upgrade the ICs to space qualified parts, so freezing doesn't destroy them, those are the usual problems. Set up the display so it can be removed if you're concerned, I never saw one harmed by cold, though they DO take a long time to change color i.e. display screen updates. We carried the laptop inside our coats when not connected to the debug or download ports. That helps.

I am in Central WA and while we can dip to -20F in a more extreme year we probably are concerned with LCD screens and the tip about lap tops. MaryB’s tip about the ice chests should cover the rest of the equipment ... I hope LOL!

I was speaking to another neighbor recently and their 2nd and 3rd cuttings were just about whipped out by the elk. I think her son is having to buy additional cattle feed to make it through with their cows.

She was getting her house ready for a wedding and the elk were in the yard eating the shrubs. It’s pretty extensive. From the language she used to describe the situation, I think she was “pretty hot” .....

BTW, This is not in the timber .... it’s out on the sage country .....

I have a feeling after we can get our goodies percolating along they will be callin’ as they have a fair view of our opperation.

Three44s

Three44s

12-06-2020, 11:12 AM

Ok, time for the back story:

“The winters of 2015/16 and 16/17 were crushers. We had 300 head and 200 head respectively every night until the snow left.

There are some reasons for the change. The State of Washington had a legislative cap on the local elk herd of 3000 in the entire basin. That sunsetted in the early ‘80’s

The Wildlife department over restricted Hunter opportunity and the herd then (by their numbers) grew to 15,000. After a big ruckus they scaled back to a claimed herd of 9,500.

There is a lot of hockus pockus I figure because I watched an “expert” of theirs “explain” how they came up with their numbers!

A local rancher challenged their claim that the herd had been scaled back from their first number of 15,000 to the new number of 9,500.

The expert got laughed at in front of about 250 people!

I will give that one time to soak in. There is a back story on that one. I will tell it shortly!”

So I am seated with our WSU Extension Livestock Agent during this dog and pony show by WDFW and this expert tells us the reason the number on the basins herd size changed without corresponding Hunter success was because THEY CHANGED THE WAY THEY COUNT THEM!

I will repeat: “they changed the way they count them......”

I turned to the WSU guy, a cattleman himself and a PHD at that and told him they must hold fingers up and count between them now?

Turns out that is not too far off!

Now bear in mind I am not anti elk because I fashion myself as an elk hunting fan. I just quit because the department has been working to shafting the State’s hunters more and more for years!

They have tied hunters hands excessively and building herds for nearly 40 years with the promise of GREAT hunting in the future!

But the our State’s new pets .... Northern Canadian and Alaskan wolves will reap the harvest, not humans!

So ...... how did the Department change their counting method?

Well they now count choice meadows by the calendar date rather then when the herd is actually there! Their reasoning is that if you count when the elk are actually there that it is “antidotal”. If you instead count on the same calendar day each year, weather be damned, (who cares if the elk are not there yet) that that is SCIENTIFIC!

Three44s

dangitgriff

12-06-2020, 12:35 PM

Now we know what election officials do for their day job...[emoji51]

Rcmaveric

12-06-2020, 02:29 PM

Hmm missed this party and glad you got the help. I have been learning Python on Raspberry PI for a couple months. From what I just went through it would take me weeks to figure out the right question to ask Google and bam. I would find the answer. Of course it would be simple and then take me a day to get it to work.

Coding isn't so bad. I try not to be fueled by by nicotine, caffeine, a touch of hatred and a hint of self torture. But when it all starts working its hard not to loose track of time or keep tinkering until it works. That feeling of success though makes it worth it.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

MaryB

12-06-2020, 03:18 PM

MaryB,

Are you sure you weren’t a farmer in another life? LOL!

Three44s

Grandpa farmed... and he never threw ANYTHING away. I learned from him how to use junk to build new equipment or to repair old stuff we picked up as junk... A couple years ago I looked at my hoard of electronic junk and did a major cleanup... stuff that hadn't been touched in 30 years in that pile! Getting up there in age, don't want to leave a mess when I kick the bucket...

Three44s

12-06-2020, 08:57 PM

Three44s

12-06-2020, 09:06 PM

Grandpa farmed... and he never threw ANYTHING away. I learned from him how to use junk to build new equipment or to repair old stuff we picked up as junk... A couple years ago I looked at my hoard of electronic junk and did a major cleanup... stuff that hadn't been touched in 30 years in that pile! Getting up there in age, don't want to leave a mess when I kick the bucket...

Well, we have been here since 1871 on the same pile of rocks ..... can you guess the “treasures” we are sitting upon?

My Dad had a scrap iron dealer drop in. He told my dad he was interested in buying his scrap iron.

Dad told him he could not have it yet because he was still farming with it!

In truth though, Dad kicks himself for hauling off ALL the hit and miss motors from the ranch when he was a young man! We have ONE left. It’s on a 32 volt generator. One cylinder, three feet tall and weighing several hundred pounds.

POW, puff puff .......... POW!

7 and 9 hp Fairbanks and Morse motors gone, oh well!

I know I did in some things my Dad did not agree with.

Best regards

Three44s

MaryB

12-07-2020, 02:56 PM

The electronic stuff can be costly to get rid of if you don't know what you are doing. I knew a scrapper who is licensed to process it and he paid me for it. Family would take it to the landfill and get charged $1,000 or more to dump it. I pocketed $300, if I had taken the time to tear stuff down and process it I could have maybe recovered $350 in gold then whatever was left in copper, lead from solder etc... but recovering the gold is a dangerous process using chemicals I do not want to play with!

AggieEE

12-07-2020, 03:37 PM

Three44s

12-07-2020, 10:21 PM

Now we know what election officials do for their day job...[emoji51]

Oh, that’s just too good!!

LOL!

Three44s

MaryB

12-08-2020, 03:10 PM

MaryB, back in the early 80's I worked for Tandy Computer Assembly in San Antonio. You might have sold units that I had my hands on. Small world. Part of my job there I did Assembly language programing. This is about as low as you can go without resorting to 10110110 etc. I basically had a comment every line. I could just read the comment lines when debugging without bothering to read the mnemonics of the code. I found that when I started I had a very linear coding style. As I got more experience and got better my coding got shorter and more recursive. I could look at my old code and just by the style tell you about when I wrote it. It got to a point that when I had to use BASIC there were parts that I could do easier in assembler and vis versa. I doubt that we'll ever meet in person but if we do we can swap war stories. Maybe explain why you had trouble with Model 4 floppy drives.

That is a LONG time back... I do remember those drives needing very frequent cleaning of the heads and if they got 2 dirty the head would shift out of alignment. I had the alignment floppy and test equipment to shift them back into place.Aligned a few of the early hard drives too, made a "clean room" by using a box and fans with hepa filters and a plexiglass front so I could open up the drives and realign the heads.

Three44s

12-09-2020, 02:24 AM

The technology has shifted way more than we could envision but for me in farming, the 80’s seem like yesterday.

Except when I move. Then it feels like a Century ago!

Three44s

BamaNapper

12-09-2020, 05:19 PM

Ahhhhh... The good old days of computers. Seems like only yesterday.

Wait, that's a pic from today. Literally.

I don't work in a museum, but some days it seems like it. The pic here is actually the computer complex for a fully functional Cobra helicopter flight simulator that still sees students from time to time. With a little TLC the old minicomputers still run flawlessly 35+ years after being commissioned. Yes, there are now a couple PCs included to emulate part of the complex, and those disk drives that were the size of washing machines are long gone. But the 8" floppy drives are still used to load part of the system.

In '82 I started working on these simulators. Then, the cabinets were pristine and it was a significant effort to make sure the machines would run flawlessly as students cycled through the trainer 16 hours a day. Today they are just as reliable, but not quite as pretty. I really do see that time period as the golden age of computers. The machines needed to be troubleshot and repaired at the chip level as there were very few spare cards available, and sending parts out for repair was too costly. Today, circuit cards and even whole computers are sent to the dumpster for even minor problems.

Working on equipment at such a primitive level is not totally unlike tinkering on the reloading bench. It's all in the details.

272943

popper

12-10-2020, 11:29 AM

DEC,another long gone.

Three44s

12-10-2020, 11:34 AM

Thanks for that story!

We have certainly turned into a throwaway society. I get frustrated at our shop with steel. I see somebody grab a big piece to hack away at it and I stop them and force them to look at the discards. Among the many pieces of trim, there is often a chunk just about right with a little TLC.

If there is bit of a gap I will fill it in with the welder and have better penetration ......

I see the same thing with wood working. I can’t do the welding trick there however and as more of a steel worker I am bad about cutting it off three times and it being too short.

The thing that scares me the most about electronics is that have a huge population that believes in “wearing out” devices but way too few willing to want to service or fix them!

We are becoming a society of ultra dependants!

Three44s

Three44s

12-10-2020, 11:39 AM

DEC,another long gone.

I assume this is the DEC you are referencing?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Equipment_Corporation

Three44s

Rcmaveric

12-10-2020, 12:14 PM

The problem with technology is intentionally half lifes. There is no money in longevity.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

BamaNapper

12-10-2020, 01:33 PM

I assume this is the DEC you are referencing?

Three44s

That's the one. DEC built computers for decades but the PC entered the market and progressed so quickly it made investment in the larger machines impractical. PCs also had the advantage of allowing companies to simply move their software onto newer and more powerful PC models with little or no software development. To move specialized software from a mainframe to a newer platform requires huge amounts of time and money. That's why we still use the old DEC PDP-11s in the pic. The cost to migrate the software and replicate interfaces would exceed the value of the simulator.

MaryB

12-10-2020, 03:26 PM

Modern computer circuit boards are multi layer... the new PC I just built has a 5 layer board so 3 layers of traces are hidden inside the circuit board. Makes troubleshooting VERY difficult and manufacturers refuse to supply board trace layouts so you can spend hours reverse engineering the board... a camera than can see heat is a huge help here because a short will show as a hot spot. Add in the components have shrank to the point you need robotics to replace some of them, impossible to do it by hand because the traces are so tiny and close together, especially on the big integrated circuits.

I repair what I can but when I can get a new motherboard for under $100 in most cases it is hard to spend much time trying to find an issue. Those old floppies didn't even hold a megabyte, now you can buy a terabyte drives for $59! First hard drive I installed from 5 megabytes and was almost the size of a shoe box! Now a terabyte drive is the size of a deck of cards! And solid state drives are coming down rapidly in price making them great for booting up and storing programs. They have a finite read/write cycle so they are not great for data storage yet if it is rewritten often. That is where you run both solid state and a normal hard drive in tandem and use the hard drive for your data storage...

Tech sure has changed in my lifetime! I started with vacuum tubes and basic transistors that weren't very reliable... point to point wiring and maybe a single sided circuit board... my first computer was an Altair 8080, I programmed it with switches and read the results out on LED's that I then translated the binary into decimal. My first data storage device for that was a cassette recorder!

I am waiting for the next big leap in computing power, my new PC is running 8 cores(basically 8 CPU's on one chip!) and there are 64 core CPU's out now! Stuff has almost reached the minimum size they can make it, it is going to take entirely new technology to make the next leap...

BamaNapper

12-11-2020, 11:17 AM

Quantum computing. From an article last year:

"On Wednesday, Google said its researchers had performed a calculation that the largest supercomputers could not complete in under 10,000 years. And they had done it in 3 minutes 20 seconds."

It's mind bending.

MaryB

12-11-2020, 04:21 PM

I will be a long time before you see quantum computing in a desktop version! They are cooled with liquid nitrogen and ANY heat an ruin the output. Design I saw 3/4 of the electronics in it were temperature sensors!

Three44s

12-12-2020, 10:50 AM

And to think the first Super computers are likely in the scrap yard or a museum already?

I guess the current ones should be called Extreme Supers by now ....? LOL!

I recall hearing the term “Cray Super Computer” and thinking well that’s the pinnacle .......

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cray

I see the Company was bought out by HP recently.

It’s founder has been gone a long time:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Cray

As I recall the National Weather Service had one Cray doing weather forecasts and if they had a second one then they could cover the entire US more accurately.

My employee told me yesterday that he heard the forecast for today and the prediction was for a snowfall of 1.6” today here. I think somebody has outgrown their “britches” ........ Super Computer or not!

Three44s

MaryB

12-12-2020, 04:04 PM

Weather forecasting is still more of an art than a science... I am far more accurate for the local forecast than the dweebs u in the Twin Cities 125 miles away. I do have my own professional weather station to help. A Davis Vantage Pro 2...

Big Tom

12-12-2020, 05:27 PM

Three44s and whoever is interested, here's a version of the working Arduino sketch. Feel free to have a look at it, if you know programming, tear it apart and let us know what could be done better / easier...
http://primercatcher.com/docs/sketch_relay-012.ino
Mods, if the link is not allowed here, please remove.

Three44s

12-13-2020, 12:09 AM

Again, Big Tom, Thank You!

You and BamaNapper have done so much for me, I am eternally grateful!

I know you guys must be outdoor enthusiasts since you are members of this forum and taken such a keen interest in my plight. I keep thinking that each of you have farmers in your area who are suffering from some sort of depredation caused by wildlife and this could become a sideline to your skill set.

To that end, if either or both of you want suggestions from “our side of the equation”, all you need to do is ask as we get the remote control technology integrated with our existing deterents.

Best regards

Three44s

Three44s

12-13-2020, 10:26 AM

Big Tom,

WOW .....This has grown quite a bit! The last revision printed out at 10 1/2 pages. It’s standing at 36 pages now with more solid code content as well.

I hope you have another use for the program because this has been quite an undertaking for you.

Ten scenes and 16 relays, my oh my and monitor and change it in the field, it blows my mind!

BammaNapper set up his sketch with a SD card reader so that variables desired for change could be switched with the change of a card. He coded for fewer scenes but the card swap is quite slick. Staying a few jumps ahead of the elks adaptability is going to be easy that way as well.

I am so taken back by the inventive genius of you folks and your generosity and the quality of the folks on this forum.

VIVA Cast Boolits!

Three44s

Three44s

12-20-2020, 11:04 PM

Update:

Big Tom mocked up the unit he wrote for, tested it and sent it to me. It arrived this Saturday.

So naturally I went into test mode here!

Got out my batteries, made up some hook up wires and got the remote RF unit out and energized.

Then smoke!

Well as luck would have it, it was not the Mega Arduino board or the 16 relay board! It was the ground wire on the input power to the Arduino. Melted the insulation off of it!

It turns out the RF units outputs are not marked correctly for their polarity. It does not matter to a piece of fireworks but to a micro controller ............ well, yes it matters!

So red is negative and black is positive. Thank you China!

Anyway several phone conversations today with Big Tom and the kinks are getting smoothed out! The components are still fine! This is GOOD!

Kudos to Tom!

I am getting pretty pumped about this technology which would not be possible without the help of the good members of this forum!

Big Tom and BammaNapper top the list, but other members contributed as well. I thank you all!

Three44s

Mr_Sheesh

12-21-2020, 04:22 AM

Three44s

12-21-2020, 11:06 AM

Three44s, I DETEST it when they do that, but they seem to do it often.

I tend to desolder power leads and put them on the right way, and put a paint or nail polish dot or a text sticker on the module noting the revision, it helps to do that if you but a new board and it gets set down with a modified board. Even just a heat shrink sleeve around those two wires will do to show that they're fixed.

Doing small mods to keep yourself sane helps.

I sure felt like a DUNCE when I thought I had ruined Big Tom’s good work!
........ You talk about unwiring things in record time ...... !

I may be able to open the little receivers and swap the leads.

On the outside they have spring loaded tabs where you plug your wires in. When you release each tab, that wire is caught.

The tabs may be switchable or I could paint those tabs the right color with nail polish.

Each RF unit will have to checked for polarity that goes into logic circuits because they may not all be backwards ......

Thanks and best regards

Three44s

BamaNapper

12-21-2020, 11:26 AM

If there's going to be doubt moving forward, it may be worth putting a diode in one of the leads. It introduces a bit of a voltage drop but should be tolerated well enough.

Three44s

12-21-2020, 11:57 AM

If there's going to be doubt moving forward, it may be worth putting a diode in one of the leads. It introduces a bit of a voltage drop but should be tolerated well enough.

Thank you BamaNapper,

Great advice! Wherever I am, there is always doubt! LOL!

I still have to get some goodies and mod up your contribution to my problem and begin working with it. The fact I have not yet is not a reflection that I am not appreciative of your work. I apologize if it seems that way because I truly do appreciate your contribution.

After my big scare yesterday, I will begin with a master switch from the power source so I can shut it down ...... fast!

As the smoke started it seemed like an eternity getting my redneck wires off those batteries ......!

Oh, the terror!

Best regards

Three44s

Mr_Sheesh

12-21-2020, 02:48 PM

If your soldering skills are not up to taking leads off the board and replacing them, cut the leads and swap colors a couple inches off the boards.

Do be certain to stagger the cuts i.e. cut one lead further than the other from the board to prevent shorting, then cover the joins with heat shrink to hedge your bet.

If you've never soldered before, there are lots of soldering tutorials on youtube to help, or find a local ham operator or "maker" or someone else who solders well. Or ask someone on here to help, we be enablers :)

MaryB

12-21-2020, 04:39 PM

Letting magic smoke out is a part of the learning experience! In high school I took 3 years of electronics, I got my ham license at 14 so the first year I was way ahead of everyone... so as the smoke clouds went up I was laughing having been there 2 years ago. The electronics instructor pretty much let me do my thing as long as I dd the required first year coursework too, 2nd year we had to design and build a project form scratch. Color organs hooked to stereo speakers were all the rage back then but were crude... I designed a 6 octave filter feeding FET's to turn the light strings on and off and added a booster amplifier internally so it could run off a tape monitor instead of the speaker output. Won a state wide industrial design award that year... third year I designed a solid state light chaser circuit(we had to use whatever surplus IC's 3M gave us...) that fed LED's for small signs and triggered FET's to drive 120 volt light bulbs. Won a National Industrial Design Award for that...

Trust me, designing from scratch the smoke clouds went up more than once! Heck I triggered the circuit breaker for the entire shop twice LOL learned a lot, was also teaching(1st year students) 2nd and 3rd year besides doing my projects. Learning to teach meant learning the details better myself. And the teacher liked it because he was an old tube type navy guy from WWII and solid state wasn't his thing...

Big Tom

12-21-2020, 06:12 PM

Three44s

12-21-2020, 08:34 PM

R
If your soldering skills are not up to taking leads off the board and replacing them, cut the leads and swap colors a couple inches off the boards.

Do be certain to stagger the cuts i.e. cut one lead further than the other from the board to prevent shorting, then cover the joins with heat shrink to hedge your bet.

If you've never soldered before, there are lots of soldering tutorials on youtube to help, or find a local ham operator or "maker" or someone else who solders well. Or ask someone on here to help, we be enablers :)

I need to clarify.

Big Toms work is stellar. The polarity issue is in the Chinese made RF fireworks firing unit. The red and black tabs are swapped. When I went to trigger the sequencing that is when the smoke was generated. It smoked the negative lead to the optional power in for the Arduino Mega Board.

I can solder as I built some simple circuits, delay timers, switching based on light etc back in the early 2000’s. Tom also points out that his terminal block is right there and I could merely insert the new wires there. The red lead is fine but I am thinking about lengthening both leads a bit while I am at.

I have small diameter shrink tube to cover the solder joints as suggested.

The way Tom layed out the small junction board it is very easy to solder in the new repair. In my stuff (somewhere, lol!) I have the little heat sink tool but this project will not need that.

Thank you

Three44s

Three44s

12-21-2020, 08:50 PM

MaryB,

Thanks for pointing out that I need to loosen up about making smoke but Big Tom put such a great piece of electronics together that I hated to screw things up. Granted I was blind sided by a Chinese Manufacturer but I still felt bad, at least until Tom figured out the likely source of the problem and then the Mega board still worked... whew!

The parallel I can compare to is running heavy equipment. If you have not gotten something big stuck, you have not done much. If I got the D7 stuck, not so bad. But when I got the D9 hung up ...... BAD! .... no body bigger to get 120,000 # out!

Smoke at our pump house 275 KVA 480 3 ph. .... a disaster. I had it twice just days apart where the leads were spliced to the ones going down the weather head. Power Company’s baby! Thank goodness!

Three44s

12-21-2020, 08:58 PM

Technically, you don't have to solder the side of the little distribution board. You can take the new wire and screw it into the terminal together with the cable (black terminal, negative) coming from battery. The other ends, from the Arduino and from the relay board, you can screw together into the terminal of the relay board - also in the negative terminal please :-)

Thank you Tom,

It’s the short black wire between junction board and the 2.1mm center positive plug that goes to the Mega board receptacle. I do not believe that any lead to the relay board is damaged.

Best regards

Three44s

slohunter

12-22-2020, 01:26 AM

Well after 6 pages I really feel stupid now.

Three44s

12-22-2020, 02:16 AM

Well after 6 pages I really feel stupid now.

Now I would not say that! Just because a particular discipline does not register with someone it does not indicate a lack of smarts. It also is not restricted to academic achievement because smarts comes in many forms in my humble opinion.

Without knowing what you do I would still wager that you have an interesting life story and some pretty good achievements.

Theodore Roosevelt was known in his stump speeches to proclaim to his audiences that “America needs each and everyone of you”! Everyone of us brings something to the table (criminals mostly exempted) that our nation needs.

Be it for me to pretend that I understand the coding that has been presented for my benefit by gracious members here. I have watched some 34 well done videos on the internet about the programming language the Arduino boards use and I thought I “knew something”. Well I have a long ways to go ..... oh my!

Where I come into the picture is my somewhat unique problem and a resolve to reach out to folks that may have knowledge that can help.

For four years I have been associated with the fellow who along with his family own and operate a pyrotechnics show company. They sell pyro to others such as stands and other show folks.

I tried some pyro on my elk and got mixed results but it became obvious that my technology in controlling and directing it were lacking. The radio frequency control system gave rise to a better way to gain control but I felt I needed more expansion of the options so the elk would be kept off balance and be less likely to get complacent.

As I brain stormed how to branch out the deterrents I came to learn about the old phone sequencing switches. Being sought after as collector items I thought about making my own switch. As I continued to discuss my thoughts the response from certain folks was to turn to micro controllers.

And here I am!

Three44s

Mr_Sheesh

12-22-2020, 05:27 AM

Maybe a career in Elk Deterrents lies ahead of you :)

Letting the smoke out, yep it happens. Try to only do that with inexpensive parts though, not a clients' $25,000 computerized safety device you're testing :P

All of us have lots to learn, are good at some things and not so good at others. Doesn't make those lower on a specific skill stupid, just means they haven't learned as much about that subject, YET. I've worked with some awfully bright people and while I know computers / electronics more than they, their area of specialization I'm less knowledgeable in. Language is handy, it lets us work together :)

Tabs, not wires, oops we misremembered or just didn't know. I bet you'll chuckle at silly manufacturers doing stupid stunts like that more than once, later (Initially some less humorous responses perhaps tho!)

BamaNapper

12-22-2020, 11:23 AM

I listened to a podcast a couple months back that comes to mind with the talk of letting smoke out of equipment. The guy was talking about accepting failure as part of progress. He gave a perfect example. Consider Elon Musk. He's world famous as a leader in getting things done, and quickly headed toward being the most successful and wealthy person in history. For the better part of 20 years he's had a focus on rockets. How many have blown up on the launchpad, blown up in midair, or crashed and burned? Maybe 50? He doesn't see millions of dollars in smoldering rubble as failure, but as an investment in eventual success. Even his most recent launch, that ended in an impressive explosion when the vehicle was landing, was called a successful flight.

I'm usually not that upbeat when I set fire to something I'm working on.

thraxx

12-22-2020, 11:51 AM

I helped build a similar system using Arduino. It's more of a security system using hard wired motion sensors and some and security cams, but it detects things coming into the place, turns on lights and sirens and activates cameras. It uses the network cards and sends out emails when triggered. No reason it couldn't control pyro.

I'd like to upgrade it to a Pi as the master unit, controlling multiple Arduino units.

BamaNapper

12-22-2020, 12:54 PM

No reason it couldn't control pyro.

I'm not sure pyro is a good idea for a home security system. :D

Kind of like the ad for the MAC-10 a few years back. It was touted for home defense... "Honey, someone's in the living room, lob a frag in there!"

thraxx

12-22-2020, 03:49 PM

I'm not sure pyro is a good idea for a home security system. :D

what, you dont think an intruder would get excited by spotlights, sirens, and firecrackers? :bigsmyl2:

I guess I should have said it was an outdoor system for keeping an eye on an empty farm place.

Big Tom

12-22-2020, 04:47 PM

Correct - that's what M18 Claymores are for :-)

I'm not sure pyro is a good idea for a home security system. :D

Kind of like the ad for the MAC-10 a few years back. It was touted for home defense... "Honey, someone's in the living room, lob a frag in there!"

Three44s

12-22-2020, 09:03 PM

“Maybe a career in Elk Deterrents lies ahead of you. “

Thank you for the vote of confidence but I am happiest on my own farm. My pyro guy may take this “on the road” and his son was the biggest champion of seeking out an Arduino solution for my elk problem though he knows nothing about how to program them, only that some people do use them to run pyro shows.

He is also thinking about getting into the Drone/Ag business and that whole service area is about to explode in growth.

So I will help my pyro friends as much as I can and trade my ideas and experiences to them and in turn, they can knock themselves out getting to know agriculture using my farm as a living breathing school to expand their skill sets in areas like the special photography and field mapping.

Best regards

Three44s

Three44s

12-22-2020, 09:10 PM

what, you dont think an intruder would get excited by spotlights, sirens, and firecrackers? :bigsmyl2:

I guess I should have said it was an outdoor system for keeping an eye on an empty farm place.

Hush people ..... there is an elk thumpin’ on the front door, better give him some entertainment!

Three44s

popper

12-22-2020, 09:25 PM

Mostly Asian stuff uses positive ground-neutral. We use neg. ground.

Three44s

12-22-2020, 10:14 PM

Well, smoke my giblets! That figures!

Thanks for the warning popper!

Best regards

Three44

Three44s

01-01-2021, 12:00 PM

Well, I figured I would let you know the hogs have not gotten me!

Big Tom continues to refine code and equipment and I have his first unit here and he has number two with him. We did a virtual meeting right after Christmas and I can tell you Big Tom is a brave fellow as the sight of me on his computer screen did not panic him!

There is so much adaptability written into his sketch and ways to bluff elk, I just have to learn how to get my farmer brain wrapped around it! LOL!

Working on tractors and cats, a small wire to me is 14 gauge!

I have about eliminated generating smoke also.

I am eyeing ice chests for a home away from home for the unit, I have lots of choices!

Luckily we have only had minor snow and the animals have stayed away thus far. I do have the option of just using the fireworks unit by itself too in a pinch.

A shout out to BamaNapper!

I have not forgotten your contribution! Your turn is coming! I really like you SD card code written into your sketch!

It blows my mind the potential that the Arduinos, Raspberry Pi’s And Beagle series’s of boards offer. Farming will never be the same.

Three44s

Rcmaveric

01-01-2021, 12:13 PM

With some of the coding and software packages it no longer takes a degree to create anything. I was rather surprised how powerful the PI was.

The PI and Arduino broke the molds. They wanted us backwoods engineers and kids to be able to create and their software was designed with that simplicity.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

MaryB

01-01-2021, 04:46 PM

The first small micros were fun but not very powerful(I have a couple), now they are a full blown computer you can pick and choose what I/O you need via add on cards...

Three44s

01-01-2021, 07:44 PM

Well I am really stoked about the potential for agriculture!

Everyone thinks of robotic tractors etc and that is obvious .... I am not going to afford those perhaps in my lifetime. Drones are getting more useful. That we have here.

But there are a ton of menial little and not so little tasks that are easily handled with the current and future boards.

As I study the peripherals that are available and look at the relative cost (most are peanuts!) and the fact that in most instances the programming is open source, the most critical input is imagination towards how to apply the technology to the need.

I was shocked at the relatively low number of farmers are really using their computers to even half their capability. I guarantee you, that will not stay that way much longer.

Happy New Year!

Three44s

MaryB

01-02-2021, 04:33 PM

Guys who farm around me are organic. They use drones to see where fields are weedy, to measure moisture etc. They run spot tests int he fields to see where fertilizer is needed and where it isn't, everything is GPS controlled and the tractor controls the fertilizer spreader on a spot basis. Tractor can plow by itself with someone monitoring. The combine is loaded with sensors for head height, how soft the ground is(wheel sink) etc and it optimizes speed based on yield. It also tracks moisture level in the grain so they know how much they need to dry it down for storage.

Three44s

01-02-2021, 05:25 PM

Yes those are the current things that have been adapted and they are expensive ones.

The things I see Arduino etc in for me are related to fertigation for instance. I like to feed micronutrients in my sprinklers for instance. A lot of the forms that are more economical do not mix well. In fact they can form blobs resembling cottage cheese.

I see a controller spacing out the various elements during the injection cycle with a rinse cycle inserted between each product using untreated irrigation water. A lot of safety protocols can be incorporated into the system such as stopping the flow of concentrate when a main pump experiences a stoppage or a tank ran dry, etc.

If the wind blows too hard and disrupts the sprinkler patterns, the system times out, then resumes when the wind dies down.

A camera and motion detection system to provide ranch security for either two or four legged predators that is affordable comes to mind. I hate an added cell phone bill but the closest thing I know of is an $800 per camera system that radios back to a central computer. An entire system built around Arduino/Raspberry Pi/Beagle could be done for that money or a bit more.

We have issues with cougars eyeing our cattle.

Three44s

Rcmaveric

01-03-2021, 05:36 AM

Bad kitties

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Three44s

01-03-2021, 12:39 PM

Bad Kitties indeed!

Three44s

BamaNapper

01-04-2021, 05:27 PM

It's just too darned bad that mounting a gun on an articulated platform, with control for azimuth and elevation, along with a scope and camera, and maybe a laser range finder and wind measurement for minor compensation, and a cellular link for video and control, and an electronic trigger, is almost certainly illegal. Probably very illegal. I would never think of doing such a thing. Well, I might think of it. Apparently I just did.

Great, now my brain is stuck on the thought. Integrating the laser range over a period of time along with azimuth and elevation changes over the same period provides a relative 3D target track and minimal math could calculate how to lead the target.

Ok, this is actually starting to sound like a fun project. Maybe build it around an airsoft gun to keep BATF off the porch and gain capability for burst or full auto.

I wonder if aiming pyro in such a manner would be somewhat less illegal. It would certainly be more entertaining.

Three44s

01-04-2021, 09:36 PM

Interesting but most likely illegal.

With respect to bad kitties though we had a really great relationship with the Tribe over them on the Reservation until a Tree Hugger took over a segment of their Wildlife Dept. The State has been the pits, very political.

I would have my best luck with one of my Tribal member hunters out looking for elk to put in the freezer knocking a cat over. Some tribes look favorably on them, this one doesn’t.

Best regards

Three44s

Rcmaveric

01-05-2021, 12:07 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/an-18-year-old-mounted-a-gun-to-a-drone-and-fired-shots-in-the-middle-of-the-woods-2015-7%3famp

Gun mounted drones?

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Three44s

01-05-2021, 01:09 AM

Three44s

01-28-2021, 07:20 AM

An update:

Big Tom has been unbelievably helpful and not only wrote and debugged a sketch but even built the system, twice!

I have two packages to work with now and I am eternally greatful to him.

The second Arduino has an improved but lower priced key pad for inputting variables and now an SD card reader for variable storage and the flexibility of writing to other cards that you can swap in and out on the fly.

Bammanapper drew up a schematic and wrote a sketch based on that concept of using a SD card from the get go. I have not tackled that work of his yet, I apologize for that ......

We have had a very open snowless winter thus far but the change is in and we are getting snowed up now. The war is likely to start soon. A couple of elk likely came and scouted out the Grub pile (hay) last night.

What Big Tom designed and coded is pretty fascinating. It can run up to 10 scenes (different plays) that amount to different sequences and combinations of triggers involving up to 16 different relays. Every time I hit the button on my radio frequency pyro triggering unit the Arduino initiates a another sequence until it cycles back to the first scene and then starts over.

I will not rely strictly on pyro for a number of reasons the least of which is that that is an expendable resource. Once a launch tube is empty, you have to physically reload it. So to stretch out the effectiveness, I intend to add lights and sounds for the Arduino triggered relays to activate.

The idea is to imitate the sensations the elk experience when we are physically there driving them off. Certainly the real hazing has to accompany the use of the Arduino set up to maintain a real element to our efforts.

Right now I am in the process of learning how to set my variables to the task at hand. I am amazed at the level of sophistication Big Tom has included into his creation.

Unfortunately he caught COVID-19 recently and it has been quite a struggle for him. He gets better but with set backs. He even landed in the hospital for some days thus far but is home lately. He posted about the beginning of the ordeal in the off topic section of Cast Boolits in early Jan.

Our family sends our thoughts and prayers to him and his wife (she is fairing much better fortunately).

Get well Soon Big Tom!

Three44s