Buddy Wants to Start Shooting and Carrying

[Silver Jack Hammer]

A buddy called me and wants to start shooting and carrying. I scouted out the LGS’s and will probably suggest he buy guns in calibers he can get ammo for. Pretty narrow pickings out there right now.

Tough time to get into shooting, I hope he’ll be open to reloading.

Today I scored 900 rounds of .22 LR, a brick of Federal large pistol primers in magnum and a pound of Greed Dot. Thank I’m glad I went out looking today.

Usually I advise people to get a .22 with adjustable sights, a .38/.357, a case of ammo for each, join a range, take classes and shoot regularly before they plan on seriously carrying.

[SweetMk]

If he is a veteran, Glock has a program running,, ends Veterans day (SOON!)
A vet can buy one Glock,, I got a Glock 19,, to me, that is a "pocket' pistol, I never had one that small.
The special pricing makes the gun priced like it is 2015,,, and ,, these special guns are readily available.

[Petrol & Powder]

".....I scouted out the LGS’s and will probably suggest he buy guns in calibers he can get ammo for. Pretty narrow pickings out there right now........" I wouldn't make a decision based on the temporary limited ammunition supply.

The best decisions are careful, well thought out, deliberate ones.

How will carry the gun? (belt holster, ankle holster, pocket, etc.)
Does he have concealed carry permit? Will he get one?
How much shooting skill does he have and how much time is is willing to invest?
Does he have a preference or prior experience with a particular platform? (DA revolver, pistol?)
Is this a short term desire heavily influenced by current conditions ? (HIGHLY LIKELY)

I would NOT base the decision on what is available in the display case of a local gun store. That would be like wanting a pickup truck and going to the local dealership and buying whatever was on the lot. You're likely to come home with a two seater convertible because that's all they had to sell to you.

If you want to help your friend, slow him down and help him make an informed decision.

And this is good advice, " .......join a range, take classes and shoot regularly before they plan on seriously carrying."

[dverna]

Unless he is well off, and prepared to pay stupid prices, now is not the time to buy a carry gun.

Have him buy a pump shotgun for home defense. It is a gun that everyone needs and it will make him feel he has "done something".

Get a decent .22 and have him shoot a few thousand rounds before buying a CF pistol. I try to get people to shoot my CF revolvers and semi-auto pistols so they get a feel for what they prefer. Most buy whatever the "expert" at the LGS steers them to. Regrettably, right now, that may be whatever is left over and no one wants. Hope your buddy is patient and will let you help him, but do not be surprised if he comes home with a gun you did not recommend. I have had that happen twice and it can be a bit frustrating.

[Petrol & Powder]

I strongly agree with what dverna said.

[contender1]

As a long time instructor,, I get a lot of "new" gun owners wanting help.
One of the best pieces of advise it for him to get good, PROPER instruction on the basics of handgunning from a well known instructor. Trying to correct bad habits,, (Uncle Joe held it like this, and that's how I hold it) is HARD for people.
Next,, start with .22's and work up.
Let HIM decide what guns & calibers he likes AFTER he has tried them.

Just yesterday,,, at a customer's house, I discovered my customer is a retired LEO of 30 years. But,, very limited shooting exposure. ZERO single-action experience. He wants some,, and he also wants his wife to get some instruction. He is smart enough to accept the fact that he is not the person to teach her,, and is open to proper instruction. I applauded him & have offered my services.

So, good instruction on the proper basics of handgunning, followed by sampling of many designs, calibers, and such, all will help him get educated BEFORE he makes any purchases.

[45workhorse]

Sometimes, people will take the advise of a total stranger, over family or friends! Never could understand that. Then over time come back to you and say they should have listen to you in the first place.:veryconfu

[35remington]

New shooters invariably pick the worst possible time to “get into guns and shooting.” And handloading. When ammo and primers are unobtanium and guns scarce and expensive, suddenly they decide because that is so they should look into it.

I wish him luck. Frequent or even occasional practice is difficult for someone that has not seen this coming.

[Plate plinker]

If he is a veteran, Glock has a program running,, ends Veterans day (SOON!)
A vet can buy one Glock,, I got a Glock 19,, to me, that is a "pocket' pistol, I never had one that small.
The special pricing makes the gun priced like it is 2015,,, and ,, these special guns are readily available.

Are these under the blue gun label?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I did not intend to convey any connection between what is currently available on the market with my buddy’s choice of a carry gun.

What I meant was -(this should be an acronym) “wimw” -how does a new shooter break into the current market of sold out ammo shelves and practice shooting.

I too am a firearms instructor, have been certified since 1990. It is our responsibility to facilitate training and to provide information.

Fundamental to training is shooting. I believe people should own a good .22 and a good .38/.357 to shot high volumes of ammo with frequent range sessions.

Most people buy a number different carry guns. Most of these carry guns are not the best shooters for extended range sessions.

There are a lot of guns on the shelves right now. Compact high cap striker fire minor caliber guns without manual safeties are the worst choice for practice and or carry. OK, now bring on the flames.

I’d love to see my buddy choose something like a Commander as a carry gun. Guns like the Shield are far more common. I can only facilitate training and provide information.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think the answer to this, "......how does a new shooter break into the current market of sold out ammo shelves and practice shooting." is: Right Now, YOU DON'T.

Short of someone helping you out and providing some guns and ammo to try, (which may not be a bad path to take), I don't think this is the time to dive into this issue.

However, it doesn't need to be wasted time. You can take advantage of the current situation and use the time to think about what path to take when things return somewhat to normal.

Despite all of the panic, things will get better. Use this time to study options, maybe try out a friends gun if that's available.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Good advise. I told my buddy to take a basic class or 2. My experience as a firearms instructor is to provide quarterly qualifications to law enforcement officers who had all had the basic firearms class at the academy. Then I was involved in competition. These are opposite classes of shooters. Most of the officers just wanted to qualify and leave, while the competitor shooters were at the range all day practicing and talking about practicing.

I will offer my buddy my use of my reloading bench. I’ve done this before with new shooters.

He will also have a chance to shoot with me and shoot my guns to get him started.

Like anything else, most people get into something new and then lose interest. I hope this doesn’t happen with him.

[RC46]

I just saw some .454 Casull ammo for sale - nice little 'started' pistol. Na just kidding,
Can't beat a .22 pistol/rifle and .38/357 pistol as a starting point - you can still find ammo & have fun time shooting, learning and the pride of ownership.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

As a long time instructor,, I get a lot of "new" gun owners wanting help.
One of the best pieces of advise it for him to get good, PROPER instruction on the basics of handgunning from a well known instructor. Trying to correct bad habits,, (Uncle Joe held it like this, and that's how I hold it) is HARD for people.
Next,, start with .22's and work up.
Let HIM decide what guns & calibers he likes AFTER he has tried them.

Just yesterday,,, at a customer's house, I discovered my customer is a retired LEO of 30 years. But,, very limited shooting exposure. ZERO single-action experience. He wants some,, and he also wants his wife to get some instruction. He is smart enough to accept the fact that he is not the person to teach her,, and is open to proper instruction. I applauded him & have offered my services.

So, good instruction on the proper basics of handgunning, followed by sampling of many designs, calibers, and such, all will help him get educated BEFORE he makes any purchases.

Great points. My wife took a beginners firearms class, from a great female instructor with other ladies. She had a great time. She said the class went into things I wouldn’t think to address. At the time, I was shooting several different categories and competing at national matches.

I’m not surprised a LEO had no SA experience. We had a gang banger empty a SA at a rival gang member in a crowd. The offender fled on foot and tossed the SA away. Officers arriving were unsure how to recover the SA mechanism.

While we all smirk at them, I confess when I was rookie I didn’t know anything about the 1911. We had an officer recover one and they were mocked for feeling comfortable unloading it. I went to the LGS and got a briefing on the 1911. That was over 40 years ago.

A police officer in CA recovered a pistol off a guy visiting a patient in a hospital. The officer accidentally discharged the pistol in the hospital.

[charlie b]

Many LEO's only shoot when qualifying. Rarely are they required to discharge a firearm in their daily duties. Some will go an entire career without the need to engage a perpetrator. Some people think that a LEO or ex-military are somehow more qualified to use a firearm than a civilian. Just is not so in many cases.

If I had only used firearms as required in my military training I would be the last person you would want advice from. I only shot a sidearm or rifle a handful of times in my 20 year career and most of those times were when I was still at the company level (first 5 years of service). I think I fired more tank canon rounds than rifle rounds. Lots of .50cal and 7.62 machine gun (both from turret mounts).

99.99% all of my small arms experience is due to my interest in shooting, reloading and casting, not from my military service.

[charlie b]

Forgot, to the OP.

Suggest you continue to encourage interest in shooting by sharing your hobby with your buddy. These days ammo is hard to come by and there is not a huge selection of handguns to choose from. But, you can help him figure out what kind of gun he might want to buy. Then it will take a bit of shopping to find the type of gun he chooses as well as ammo for it.

[FergusonTO35]

I think the answer to this, "......how does a new shooter break into the current market of sold out ammo shelves and practice shooting." is: Right Now, YOU DON'T.

Short of someone helping you out and providing some guns and ammo to try, (which may not be a bad path to take), I don't think this is the time to dive into this issue.

However, it doesn't need to be wasted time. You can take advantage of the current situation and use the time to think about what path to take when things return somewhat to normal.

Despite all of the panic, things will get better. Use this time to study options, maybe try out a friends gun if that's available.

This, 100%. At my part time gun sales job, I've lost count of how many first time gun buyers I have encountered after each election, social upheaval, or natural disaster. They are like flowers that pop up in the spring. Dealt with a bunch of them today, as expected, and of course they just can't believe that we don't have a normal selection of guns and ammo.

[contender1]

Silver Jack,, it sounds as if you are on the right track of things.

I didn't delve into my complete background,,, but I'm a 20+ year competitor of USPSA,, a handgun hunter, a Hunter safety instructor, I own a gun range, certified range officer, WOT instructor, as well as many other minor things involving shooting & instruction.

The LEO I was enjoying talking to the other day,, was actually quite knowledgeable in many aspects,, but even with our short visit,, he learned a few pointers,, AND admitted it, as well as thanking me for them. He related a story about when he was a rookie & started with a DA revolver. And also how he had observed over the decades how many LEO's were NOT gun people.
With my youngest son currently a LEO Detective,, I'm around a lot of LEO's and I have seen a lot of "interesting" things.
Too many to use this thread for,,,,,,,,,,!

Your friend,, offer your help. But,, become the instructor,, NOT the friend. Often, machismo can prevent a person from admitting something they do not know,,, or worse, trying to fake it,,, for fear of feeling stupid,, or looking bad.
This is why I often take any of our WOT clinic instructors,, and remove them from any familiar female in class. And by also removing all known male presence in the class, the ladies relax & do not worry about those folks whom they are familiar with, & seeking their approval. Ladies do not have machismo,, (well most don't),, and will open their minds, listen & learn.
Guys,, often have a problem thinking they will look bad if they appear to not know something that's common knowledge to others.

I always start any class that has a guy in it with the following;

" I'm an instructor. I do not know how much you know, so I'm going to present things as if you know nothing. I will do my best to convey proper instruction, and help you understand it and why it's necessary. If you have any questions,, ANY questions,,, please do ask. No question is too small, trivial, or anything. There are no stupid questions,,,only stupid people for not asking their questions!"
I actually use this statement in all my classes, not just for the men. It's just that the men are often the ones who NEED to hear it more.

Over the decades,, I've taught many beginners, and all the way up to combat veterans. (One lady Vet emailed me from Afghanistan, after I'd worked with her, and thanked me profusely, because she said my training helped her survive an engagement.) THAT'S why I do it.

There are a lot of people out there currently looking into firearm ownership & carrying,, due to the current climate. Hopefully your friend can & will become serious enough to become a firearm friend & supporter. Proper instruction, geared for his purposes,, can bring him into the fold.

[ddixie884]

How many non gun owners are surprised that they can't order on line and have guns and ammo delivered to their home by their postman the next day..........

[Plate plinker]

All those who don’t understand the word infringed.

[Handloader109]

Right now, either get lucky or wait 6 months. If he's worried about his home, you can easily find a 20 or 12 gauge shotgun and there's plenty of shotgun ammo around. largest birdshot you can find... Old pump would be fine. But handgun ammo? not so much

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[FergusonTO35]

I have often wondered if waterfowl steel would make good defensive rounds.

[Chemoman]

i and my wife each have a ruger lcr. mine is 38 special and my wifes is 22 mag. easy to shoot, not much recoil and very accurate. will get the job done with a well placed shot. two holsters are needed for each gun. one magnetic on to be placed next to ones knee when driving. it attaches to the trasnmission cover inside the car. the other holster goes in a purse or on a belt on a hip or a big coat pocket. ruger lcr, he wont go wrong. when i was in a denver hosp a while back for cancer treatment one of my nurses was a 35 year old single female who loved to walk the trails in the near by mountains. she was staled by a mountain lion and only by the grace of God got away from it. i recommended a ruger lcr in any cal. she could find in denver. she did and now carries it in her pack when she walks the trails each week. she is from the deep south and well aquainted with guns, just wanted a accurate reliable easy to use one. found that in the ruger lcr.

[ddixie884]

I agree that the LCR is a real sleeper. Light for what it will do and reasonably priced. I bought several for truck guns and they do nicely in a console.......

[Baltimoreed]

He doesn’t need to buy new. Look for police turn ins which are usually carried a lot but shot little. The lowly .38 spcl revolver is always a good place to start. Cheap to reload for, easy to shoot, everyone builds them- spend a little on a Taurus, Rossi, Ruger or a lot on a Smith or Colt, a variety of grip sizes and materials, a variety of ammo from plinker-target to defensive +P. The simplest manual of arms, no double feeds or safety to forget to disengage. Easy to qualify with whenever he does his ccw class. I have more .45 revolvers but .38s are second.

[Gunslinger1911]

All good advice, also bad time to "get into shooting".
Sounds like you are on the right track; instruction, shoot different guns - see what he likes.

Be careful on the loading stuff. We make it look easy, it's not.
I've been at it 45 + years, I still have a brain fart occasionally.
I had a buddy at work, wanted to get into reloading (smart guy, anal retentive on the job)
Showed him what reloading was about on my equip, he listened to me on what to buy, (Lee turret used as a single stage at first).
We went shooting later - 1 in 10 were squibs; he wasn't paying attention to the powder drop portion.
On the other hand, fella marries my daughter (master machinist), likes my ammo (he's a shooter - daughter chose well). Showed him the workings of reloading, he found a deal (MAJOR DEAL) on a NIB Dillon 650 with all the extras. We are talking $3000 worth for $1500
There is not another person that I would advise to buy a 650 right off the bat.
Took him 3 weeks to produce his first fully loaded round. - CONSTANT calls, txts and Emails during that time.

Dang I got long winded !
All I'm saying is, everyone is different, do your best to instruct him, don't be afraid to say "no, you shouldn't do ......."

I admire everyone who takes the time to bring new blood into the sport.

[jonp]

How many non gun owners are surprised that they can't order on line and have guns and ammo delivered to their home by their postman the next day..........

How many just can't believe they couldn't walk into a gunstore and walk out with a pistol in quite a number of states? After all, it's what they have been told by the MSM and Democrats what with the gunshow loophole and all. I hear them at every gunshow arguing with dealers over this.