Cast bullet accuracy

[Midohhntr]

I recently purchased a NOE 460-396 RF for my 45/70's sized to .459 .. So far I'm not impressed with the accuracy. I loaded them with 37 gr of Reloader 7 with 1550- 1580 fps range, out of my Marlin 1895, 4" group @ 50 yds skinner peep sight. With my Handi-rifle with scope wasn't much better. Both shoot very well with lever revolution and Federal ammo. The Handi-rifle will shoot 1 1/2" @ 100 yds all day long if my shoulder lasted. I'm wondering if a reduced charge would help..

[Conditor22]

my H&R 45/70 does 1/2 groups at 50 yards with 340, 405, & 500-grain boolits sized to .459 over unique. 2400, Varget

How hard are you casting them?
PC or LUBE?

[wmitty]

Can you shoot them as cast? May need a little larger boolit. My son’s 1895 measures .4593” groove dia.; and with the micro groove rifling it sure likes a larger dia. boolit.

[LouB]

Can you supply the "as cast" bullet diameter, to get an idea as to how much you are sizing them down? that would help with wmitty' s comment, above?

Sorry, I thought you were casting these yourself.
LouB

[Midohhntr]

[QUOTE=Conditor22;5025842]my H&R 45/70 does 1/2 groups at 50 yards with 340, 405, & 500-grain boolits sized to .459 over unique. 2400, Varget

How hard are you casting them?
PC or LUBE?[/QUOTE
I might have to try some 2400, don't know the hardness, I run them thru my RCBS sizeamatic

[Midohhntr]

Can you shoot them as cast? May need a little larger boolit. My son’s 1895 measures .4593” groove dia.; and with the micro groove rifling it sure likes a larger dia. boolit.

Mine is a Remlin, no microgroove barrell..

[Midohhntr]

Can you supply the "as cast" bullet diameter, to get an idea as to how much you are sizing them down? that would help with wmitty' s comment, above?

Sorry, I thought you were casting these yourself.
LouB
Yes they are cast by me..

[wv109323]

If your Marlin is a Microgroove barrel it probably needs a fatter bullet. Mine likes .461".

[waksupi]

My .45-70's take either .460, or .461.

[Midohhntr]

Well i tried a few with a reduced charge of Reloader 7, 36gr, results were a bit worse. So, going to my Lyman 47th edition I see I can start at 40gr with a 400 grain bullet up to 48gr. Listed for 1886 Winchester an 1895 Marlin only, so I'll try a few at 40gr and see what happens.

[fredj338]

Try diff oowder. I never had great accuracy with Re7. Also try 0.460" size.

[Midohhntr]

Shot a few yesterday and 40 gr of R7 seems to be the ticket. 1" @ 50 yds with open sights :) with my 1895.

[ABJ]

On my scoped Buffalo Classic, 3 shots at 100 will all touch on cold barrel shots. On 3 shots in a row they open up to 2-1/2" or so. I am using a Magma 300 round flat, bevel base. Powder is 4759. I'm at work so don't have my load notes but the book velocity said 1200 plus.
I'm with Fred on Re7, never had much accuracy luck with it. If I didn't have the 4759 I would be trying 5744 or 2400 in that order. I have tried 3031 with RCBS 405 GC and found I had to push it harder to get the accuracy I wanted. My long shots are less than 150 yrds so I don't need anything over 1200.
Tony

[Goofy]

Getting lead to shoot accurately is a challenge, but when one finds the proper mix of alloy, fit and load it is quite doable.

My .45-70 is good enough for buffalo I think. Lyman 457125, 30:1 alloy and Lord Black.
https://i.imgur.com/8kja5Q1.jpg

One of my toys used on pigs and other trash.
https://i.imgur.com/sgcXAN8.jpg

There are precious few shortcuts....

[Midohhntr]

Those are some nice groups, I have 4759 and some 2400 but prefer not to buy another mold for now. My manual says those powders require filler in the lighter charges.

[ABJ]

I do use a dacron fluffed up filler in my 45-70 and am completely comfortable with it. I am not suggesting anyone else should but it works for me. In smaller cases on 5744 or 2400 I have seen it go both ways.
Tony

[brewer12345]

The satisfaction when you get a cast load dialed in is worth the trouble.

[waksupi]

I do use a dacron fluffed up filler in my 45-70 and am completely comfortable with it. I am not suggesting anyone else should but it works for me. In smaller cases on 5744 or 2400 I have seen it go both ways.
Tony

Good way to ring a chamber.

[memtb]

I just started loading for my 45-70, and started out with RL-7. With only a few rounds downrange, I’m pretty pleased with the accuracy and the velocities. I’m running a scope (1-4x), so that helps, plus, I may have just gotten real lucky.

I merely grabbed a few loads from the internet, loaded 10 rounds with a “middle of the road” charge. The first 5 shots were used to test feed reliability, and checking for excessive pressure. Photo below is showing the next 5 rounds shot @ 100 yards. The first shot was wide right, the group is after the scope adjustment.

In summary, don’t completely discount RL-7! As these were the first 10 rounds run through the rifle.....I’m pretty happy! Hang in there Midohhntr.....you will make it work! memtb

https://i.imgur.com/paSBAprl.jpg

[PositiveCaster]

Good way to ring a chamber.
My thoughts exactly. Lyman stopped recommending the use of filler 18 years ago with their #48 Manual. Previous to then they listed fillers with a great many loads; there was a very good reason they stopped using fillers. I think that Lyman knows a thing or two about cast bullets. Don’t use fillers unless you are willing to take the risk of barrel damage.



.

[tmanbuckhunter]

Most 95's with a ballard bore run on the bigger side. I have a few 95's and they all have a throat diameter of .460-.461 and I shoot a bullet that size with great accuracy.

[Midohhntr]

I just put a scope on the Marlin today and sighted in with Federal power shock ammo , 300 gr jsp.
For my son to use. Both these and Hornaday lever revolution use bullets at .458" , both loads shoot great out of my handi rifle.... in addition the 40gr of R7 and the NOE 460-396 fn sized to .459 is looking very promising .

[prs]

Midohhntr; is this your first casting your own adventure? If so, you are ahead of the game in progress. The learning curve can be slow. If you are experienced, pardon my elementary advice. Pat attention to the hints, suggestions above regarding sizing to fit the chamber area where the bullet rests, which is (certainly should be greater than bore. Work loads upward. Judge accuracy off of bench with bags and good sights/optics. Carry on and my you and your son enjoy immensly!

prs

[gumbo333]

If jacketed .458 bullets shot well and you are having trouble finding a .459 cast load that will equal its accuracy, try .460 cast. Bet they will shoot as good as the jacketed. Best is to slug your bore then start with cast .002 larger than the slug size. Most jacketed bullets will still shot good in a slightly oversize bore. Cast boolits will not.

[Win94ae]

The only problem I ever had with precision where cast bullets were the factor, was when I was pushing them too fast for the twist rate. I do basically what most people do, that aren't looking for pinpoint accuracy; and they are just as precise as my jacketed bullet loads.

Here is my new load in the 45-70
271472

I was a bit lucky probably; but with iron sights, my groups will usually be under 2MOA, with any bullet.
Only once did I try a reduced load, it shot okay; but I would suggest using different powder and data for regular loads.

[1hole]

The only problem I ever had with precision where cast bullets were the factor, was when I was pushing them too fast .... Only once did I try a reduced load, it shot okay; but I would suggest using different powder and data for regular loads.

I suspect your powder's burn rate is too slow for a reduced charge for your cartridge. In some 50+ years of reloading for everything that goes BOOM! I've slowly learned that powders perform most consistent and accurate when they are loaded in the upper (flatter) portions of their time : pressure curve.

Excessively light charges of any powder produces low and erratic chamber pressures which are not helpful for good accuracy. In effect, that means loading below what's needed to develop sufficient pressure for consistent ignition and burn rate tends to produce lousy accuracy.

If my manual suggests a charge from 40 to 48 grains I'll start with a charge about 10% below book max and work up from there IF pressure signs allow; they usually do. I've found that accuracy tends to improve as I approach max for that powder and bullet.

IF a greatly reduced charge of any powder provides better accuracy I know that powder is probably too "fast" for my best load so I switch to something with a slower burn rate.

[charlie b]

Interesting cause Varget provides some of the best cast groups in my .308, frequently MOA out to 300yd, never more than 2MOA. It also provides some of the best jacketed full power groups. Surprised me since slight downloads with jacketed are poor performers.

At the same time, IMR4198 and 4895 loads come close to the Varget. And IMR4166 does well with cast in my .30-06 Four powders with much different burn rates.

The only problems I have had with downloads have been with ball powders.

PS the reduced loads here are far below the lowest jacketed loads in most manuals. I go back to the Lyman cast bullet handbook and start with some of the lowest loads listed.

[Midohhntr]

Midohhntr; is this your first casting your own adventure? If so, you are ahead of the game in progress. The learning curve can be slow. If you are experienced, pardon my elementary advice. Pat attention to the hints, suggestions above regarding sizing to fit the chamber area where the bullet rests, which is (certainly should be greater than bore. Work loads upward. Judge accuracy off of bench with bags and good sights/optics. Carry on and my you and your son enjoy immensly!

prs
I'm never too old to learn something new, lol. I started casting around '74 or so just round ball's and minie's at first for muzzleloader. Then later for .357 mag because my brother and I both shot. But going oversize on cast seems to contradict what Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton recommended back in the day, size to exact groove dia. And that 40 gr of R7 is working nicely in my 45/70 no flattened primers or other signs of high pressure. But I may end up with a .460 sizer die in the future, we'll wait and see.
Cheers