458 Lott Forming

[Sixgunner]

Hello everyone,

So I got a wild hair and got into a 458 Lott. Now I’ve found that brass is nowhere to be found... I have some 375 H&H brass (new). How would you go about forming the brass? Thanks for all your help!

[725]

Just shoot .458 Win Mag until you can get some Lott. Others may know about the fire forming, it's just that I don't.

[lar45]

I make 375 Win from 30-30 cases. I don't know if it will be similar or not, but...
I put a small charge of a fast pistol powder in the bottom of the case, next make a wad out of a piece of tissue paper, then fill the case with cream of wheat or grits, use a punch to compress the filler. Put another tissue wad on top and fire with the rifle pointed straight up or down.
You might have to anneal the top half of the case to get it to blow out straight.
Here's a short video of the 30-30 to 375 Win.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwV0WYn52Ik

[adcoch1]

Do your reloading dies have a tapered mandrel inside the sizing die? I would see, and just lube up a 375 brass and try to size it. It'll probably work fine. The proportional differences are about the same as 30-06 to 35 whelen and that'll go in one sizing.

[DocSavage]

Fire for 375 H&H trim if needed. 375 case length 2.85" 458 Lott length 2.80".

[Sixgunner]

Thank you all for the input. Would you suggest running the 375 through a 458 FL sizer before fireforming?

[lar45]

If it will chamber in the Lott, then I would not see any need to size it first. But it would not hurt anything if you wanted to.

Years ago I read an article about forming brass for the Lott. They had a special bullet mold made that had a .375 shank and a .458 nose. They loaded and fireformed that way to make Lott brass. I can't remember which magazine it was in, but it was the first time that I had read about the 458 Lott.

I still think that the Cream of Wheat process would make better cases. It irons out the taper, shoulder and neck as the cereal plug blows out the front of the case. You will probably have to play with the pistol powder charge with the 375 H&H being a much larger case than the 30-30 in the video. I used 7gn of Unique, so it would definitely be safe to start there, but you might have to try 8 or 9 grains if you don't get a good ironed out case.
Please take pics and let us know how it goes.

[Geezer in NH]

I think it was in the hand loaders digest will look thru my collection and see, as I remember the article.

[SOFMatchstaff]

Another donor case that is long enough to fill out, is the 8mm magnum, and you would only have to anneal a short neck and shoulder area ....

[lar45]

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/75486
416 Rem mag is in stock at Graf's

[JFE]

If you don’t have a tapered expander to open up the neck from 375 to 458, have someone make one for you. While longer than 458 Lott, the 375 brass will shrink when it’s fire formed.

With loading and cost of components I like to make best use of fire forming loads and use the process to make up practice loads. Since you’re a member of this site I assume you cast and cast pills would be perfect for cheap fire forming / practice loads. Also, a bullet generally irons out the brass better than using tissue, cream of wheat etc.

If the donor brass is old or work hardened it would be worthwhile annealing before expanding the neck.

[swheeler]

[QUOTE=lar45;5029235]https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/75486
416 Rem mag is in stock at Graf's[/QUOT

Formed 416 and 458 Lott to 450 Watts Ackley improved, 459-450gr rammed into the throat and 28-30 gr 2400 did a good clean job.
https://i.imgur.com/E8tuc8B.jpg

Edit; L to R 450 WATTS AI, 7x57 AI, 30-06 AI

[Sixgunner]

Thank you all for your help! I do cast so I think I may go the route of FL sizing and a light CB load. Thanks again all!

[Stockcarver]

I have had a Lott for several years.

Along with copies of Jack Lott's original build articles of the rifle and the cartridge.

He used 375 H&H brass as the full length cylindrical brass was not available.

Hence the fire formed case is a bit shorter than full length.

I first used full length cylindrical H&H brass for the Lott. Had the chamber reamer ground to accept this with enough chamber length so as not to bind a case.

So my chamber is essentially a 450 Watts. An Alaskan friend found 80 rounds of 450 Watts loaded rounds and gave them to me, nice gift!

About 5 years ago I found a good supply of Lott components, the brass was Hornady. Wound up with a lot of brass, bullets, and two more sets of dies. And 200 new loaded rounds.

So my recommendations:

Chamber the Lott full length. This way you can shoot any and all cartridges you come across without worrying about the case length.

Look for full length H&H cylindrical brass.

Begin your shooting with light practice loads. Full house loads with 500 grain bullets in the Lott are punishing to say the least. Gradually build up to the recoil.

[Stockcarver]

[QUOTE=lar45;5029235]https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/75486
416 Rem mag is in stock at Graf's[/QUOT

Formed 416 and 458 Lott to 450 Watts Ackley improved, 459-450gr rammed into the throat and 28-30 gr 2400 did a good clean job.
https://i.imgur.com/E8tuc8B.jpg

Edit; L to R 450 WATTS AI, 7x57 AI, 30-06 AI



A man after my thinking. I have a new unused 450 Ackley Improved reamer from PTG. A new old stock Olympic Arms BBK action. A 28 inch 458 barrel. Dies, new Cylindrical brass, bullets, all the trimmings. Just got to clear some projects prior to starting this one.

[Stockcarver]

Jack Lott's original article is in the old "Big Bore Rifles" on the left. The magazines shown are in my collection.

https://i.imgur.com/SjDsgC0.jpg

[Stockcarver]

Full house loads, Hornady 500 grain softs.

https://i.imgur.com/OALY4hN.jpg

[Stockcarver]

Below is my 458 Win dark timber rifle. 20 inch barrel, I have a 4x Leupold on it. A fun gun with the 460 grain cast bullets shown in my post in Bullet Lubes. A good "Warm Up" rifle to shoot prior to stepping up to the Lott.

https://i.imgur.com/34yJnWq.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/0zS2r97.jpg?1

Mark 10 action, Whitworth barrel, front sight is NECG barrel band, rear sight is the Williams. The stock shown is not suitable for the irons, not enough drop. I have a walnut stock designed for iron sight shooting. Barrel mounted recoil lug. Steel bedded. Scope mount drilled/tapped to 8-40 screws.

It is the bottom barreled action shown in the photo below.

https://i.imgur.com/ijeU68h.jpg

[Stockcarver]

I do not have a photo of my Lott but the one below is similar. Note the drop and pitch of the stock. Also has 3/8" cast off. Mine has 1/2" cast off. Fixed aperture rear sight. Stock designed for fast sight acquisition.

https://i.imgur.com/GPsl8gT.jpg

[stubshaft]

Fire for 375 H&H trim if needed. 375 case length 2.85" 458 Lott length 2.80".

You don't have to trim as it will shorten upon fireforming.

[Stockcarver]

You don't have to trim as it will shorten upon fireforming.

Thus Jack Lott's funny case length. The 450 Watts was available back then, along with the 450 Ackley and others. I would have selected one of the existing cartridges instead of going to all the fuss. But after all a gun writer must have projects to write about and Jack left us his legacy in a nice Dangerous Game Cartridge. I met Jack many moons ago at a gun show in San Diego, he was an up front gent that knew his stuff. Ah the good old days in California: Gun shows everywhere!