Lee pistol factory crimp die

[kbstenberg]

I am considering getting the lee pistol factory crimp dies for all of the semi-auto pistols i shoot.
Can anyone that uses those dies for the 9mm Para. and the 45ACP. Let me know what the die reduces the case dia. down to. Thank you in advance Kevin

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I am considering getting the lee pistol factory crimp dies for all of the semi-auto pistols i shoot.
Can anyone that uses those dies for the 9mm Para. and the 45ACP. Let me know what the die reduces the case dia. down to. Thank you in advance Kevin

Those dies are adjustable so that determines the amount of the crimp.

[tazman]

Cosmic Charlie is correct. The knob on the top of the die is used to adjust the amount of crimp from nearly nothing to way too much.

[recumbent]

Why not taper crimp?

[onelight]

The LFCD for auto pistols that I have taper crimp , the OD of the top 1/3 of the case is the same as factory loaded ammunition in 9mm and 45 acp. If I remember when I measured I was comparing to Federal ball factory loads.

[DougGuy]

OP is obviously asking about the carbide ring FCD which has no adjustment it's just a carbide collar that slides down over the outside of the case and swages it into a uniform "factory looking" round.

[kbstenberg]

Doug Guy Bingo! I was just wondering what the case measures after going through the die. The crimp style is not important

[DougGuy]

Doug Guy Bingo! I was just wondering what the case measures after going through the die. The crimp style is not important

Afaik, those carbide rings are not all created equal, there are reports of some of them swaging down the boolit in the case (which most will do) and others do not have this issue. Generally speaking if you are loading a .451" boolit the FCD won't do much, but if you load a .452" it is very likely to swage down your loaded boolit to less than the .452" it was when you loaded it.

I do not support these FCD because once you use them, you lose much of your case neck tension and this is critical especially in an autoloader. Once you have created a round that the boolit fits rather loosely in the case, which it will, because brass has springback, then you run the risk of boolit setback when the slide rams it into the feed ramp as it loads it from the magazine.

A 9mm round, loaded to the 35kpsi max, with as little as .010" of setback can see pressures go through the roof. You could very easily have a KB because of setback, it happens.

The correct thing to do is use a taper crimp, and also if your barrel doesn't have enough freebore to load to published load data, have the barrel throated, seating deeper and then compensating powder weight is a poor workaround for the root cause, the lack of sufficient diameter freebore in the barrel throat.

[mdi]

While I cannot confirm this, I've read the carbide ring sizes the case down to SAAMI specs. (minimum?)...

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I'm going to be the contrarian here. I really like the Lee FCDs, and actually use them on every caliber/cartridge that I have that they make them for. I've even had a couple custom made (like .43 Spanish) for a very reasonable $23. Any crimping die, be it roll, taper, or FCD can be improperly adjusted and give poor results. Lee includes an instruction sheet with every FCD, and if exactly followed the results will be more than satisfactory. The carbide ring version guarantees that if the loaded round is run in and out of the FCD it will fit into a standard chamber. Very important to high volume shooters-- not me so much-- but I still like that assurance. I have loaded .45 ACP with purchased cast bullets, found them to be a bit oversized as they did seem to swage down a bit in the FCD, but then functioned fine in a 1911. On the other hand, I've taper crimped .45 ACPs and had the slide fail to go completely into battery (closed) as the bullet was a bit oversized and wouldn't enter the chamber completely. I've never experienced any neck tension problems, be it pistol or rifle cartridges, and the bullets are held very firmly into the case. A way to gauge this would be with a hammer-type inertia bullet puller--how many whacks will it take to remove a properly crimped bullet. It's been my experience that it requires about the same effort as to remove a factory loaded bullet.
Viva el FCD!

DG

[mdi]

I really don't care/mind what tools other reloaders use, and my thinking, for me, and no offense to anyone, using an FCD for handguns (with the post crimping sizing feature) is the "If it don't fit, get a bigger hammer" type thinking. My only real "concern" is many new reloaders visit reloading forums and many tend to believe what they read. So, reading about a band-aid short cut is actually detrimental to their reloading education...

Again, I mean no offense, just sharing my experience/opinions from many years of reloading...

[Martin Luber]

It swages bullets in my experience, you can even count the lube grooves as it runs over them. The brass wall thickness matters too. They do make a good case sizer though.

[onelight]

Look at the poll on the LFCD a lot of people use it , if you want factory finished dimensions it's great if you want oversize it's the wrong choice. It will make ammo that will feed in most any pistol if the barrel/mag will accept the ogive of the bullet you choose , it will also insure all the case bell is removed when loading random range brass that may vary in length. They are a tool to simplify the process and certainly may not be what you want for a particular gun. But are great for those of us that shoot for defensive practice and fun with a large variety of guns.
They do have and adjustable crimp in the carbide crimp die , roll in revolver dies and taper in auto die.

[Gunslinger1911]

I use the FCD in auto pistol rounds. With MY dies the FCD does not swage the boolet undersize. (pulled rounds with FCD and without and measured)
I think some of the dissension comes from people thinking the FCD carbide ring swages down like the carbide sizing die. As I read the Lee site, the FCD is a thou or two bigger than a normal case sizer.
Just bumps down to "normal" chamber size.
My auto rounds HAVE to function, the Lee FCD gives me confidence that they will.
Myself and others see no difference in accuracy, just a warm fuzzy that the ammo shoots.
No load, factory or hand, has beaten my load of a H&G 68 in my S&W 625 for accuracy, ALL my 45ACP goes through the FCD.
The Smith rules; 4 different 1911's are happy.

[Jniedbalski]

Most of my Fcd ring don’t even touch the brass. On some 9 mm with oversized bullets and certain thick brass they will. Also some of my 38 special with bullets .359 to .360 will also. My Bretta 92 and my star 9 mm like .358 to .359 bullets.yes certain brass will size down with the carbide ring of the fcd so I just use the carbide ring to just touch the case mouth to take out the bell when I flared it. I only size .020 of the case mouth with the lee fcd that I want oversized bullets with thick brass.Then I put my bullet seater die back in and unscrew the seating stem and use just the crimping part of that die. On my beretta 32 acp I use the fcd on all my ammo because it has a tight chamber and likes .311 bullets. Some brass it sizes the bullet down but they usally won’t chamber with out it any way. That’s how I use my fcd and it works for me

[Martin Luber]

Sounds like quality control is lacking. I measured the boolet, loaded, pulled and measured again...bingo 2 thou smaller, and that's with thin brass. And not YMMV but YMDOesV

[Jniedbalski]

You can actually feel the fcd sizing your brass and bullets down or not. If it does size it down and you don’t want it to just use your bullet seating die for the crimp. If your rounds won’t chamber because there to big pull the bullet and use a smaller diameter bullet and reload or run them through the fcd so they will chamber. The brass you can sort out later if they do size down so you won’t have under sized bullets . If you don’t want to sort some of the thick brass out use the fcd on all of them at least the thick brass will chamber and you don’t have to pull bullets to reload if they won’t chamber.

[Livin_cincy]

The Lee FCD will size to SAAMI diameter so your loads will chamber in SAAMI chambers.

If your gun has chambers larger than SAAMI and you are casting bullets oversized then the FCD will not work for you. Enlarged chambers allow easier chambering of rounds and thus better reliability.

Revolvers often have enlarged cylinders for speed of loading. Reloaders learned to over size soft lead bullets to reduce leading. Hard cast, high BHN bullets, do not lead like wheel weight bullets. Powder Coated Bullets do not lead. FMJ's are never oversized.

So if you are shooting FMJ, plated, coated boolits sized to SAAMI a FCD will make them chamber as if you ran them thru a case gauge.

If your gun likes cartridges that do not pass a case gauge then do not use a FCD.

It is that simple.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I recently purchase two Lee 4 die carbide sets, one for .38 and one for .44. They both come with a factory crimp die. And they both are adjustable. They remove the case flare and roll crimp the round. They do not size the entire case.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101119737

Perhaps this sizing of the case to saami spec is only on cases that head space on the case mouth?

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Charlie, do the dies you have come with a carbide ring in the mouth of the die? If they do, just like the FCD I had for 44 Magnum, they will size the cartridge to what Lee believes they should be. I have 5, 44 Magnums and never had a problem with any rounds chambering, not even my Puma handloads with .433" bullets in mixed brass. But the FCD I used out of curiosity did size my perfectly size cast bullets down .002"-.0035".

Yes, they have the carbide ring. I can feel the dies removing the flare as the cartridge enters the die and then at the top of the ram stroke a slight resistance during the roll crimp. There would be no need to size these rimmed cases again.

[BigAlofPa.]

I have some tight chambered 9mm's. And the Lee FCD. Has helped a lot with getting those guns to feed good. So i like the die.

[1hole]

I recently purchase two Lee 4 die carbide sets, one for .38 and one for .44. They both come with a factory crimp die. And they both are adjustable. They remove the case flare and roll crimp the round. They do not size the entire case.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101119737Perhaps this sizing of the case to saami spec is only on cases that head space on the case mouth?

There is more self confident web expert BS posted about Lee FCD's post seating ring than any other single thing.

First, LEE's aluminum screw top adjusts seating depth, not crimp. The die body lock ring adjusts the degree of FCD crimp, same as any other seaters.

Lee's post seating ring FCD is there for ONE thing; to insure the finished round will reliably feed and chamber in any SAAMI specs in any factory tolerance chamber.

That die won't even touch loaded cases unless they exceed SAAMI specs and result in a jammed cartridge stuck in the gun's chamber. So, is an fat handgun round a valid problem? Depends. Thing is,
EVERYTHING we use has a specified manufactoring dimensional size tolerance range; case thickness, bullet diameter and chambers matter.

Our current collective web "expert" obsession with mixing oversized cast bullets into occasional thick wall cases WILL result in oversize - jammable - ammo when they come together and THAT is the point of the FCD size ring. Is that a valid problem? Depends.

How fat our chamber are matters; big holes obviously tolerate bigger objects and a lot (but not all) of factory chambers are on the large size. People with fat chambers often think they're doing it right while others are making loading mistakes and need to "properly adjust" their dies. Wrong; no one can adjust the fat off a big bullet in a thick wall case by adjusting the degree of mouth crimping and anyone suggesting otherwise proves they don't really grasp the FCD "problem".

So, what do we need to know about the FCD? Well, IF we're making range ammo for competition where tiny differences in accuracy matter, sure, and many (but not all) people loading such ammo would likely do a little better without an FCD. And it's totally "safe" because no lives are on the line.

But, anyone reloading for serious social work where total chambering reliability matters far more than trivial group differences then the FCD is a godsend.

Charlie, I've been reloading for everything that goes BANG (including a lot of cast stuff) since '65. I've not seen a set of dies made since the mid 80s that didn't include a proper roll crimper for rimmed revolver cases or a decent taper crimper for straight wall autoloader pistols.

[onelight]

You can't seat bullets with the carbide factory crimp die . The aluminum adjuster adjusts a steel sleeve crimp insert in the die.
The carbide ring is in the bottom of the die like a sizer die it is used with the bulge buster kit with the crimp
parts removed from the die.
If someone wants to see how it works look at the Lee cutaway here
https://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die/

[mdi]

onelight is correct; carbide factory crimp die has an adjustable crimp.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I bought the 4 die sets because you get better results seating and crimping in seperate steps. Not because I thought the Lee factory crimp die did anything magic. All this controversy is unnecessary. I've loaded plenty of rounds for auto loaders and never needed anything but a three die set. I always used the barrel's chamber to check the ammo and that is something a new reloader can use.

[Jniedbalski]

1hole is totally correct on the use of this tool. It’s a tool some times you need it some times you don’t. In a perfect world you would never need this tool. But I find it useful. Read my last post. This is how I use this tool to not size my bullets down .But I have oversized chambers that like fat bullets in two guns.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

The Lee factory crimp dies in .44 and .38 are really handy because they have an adjustment knob so you can tweak the roll crimp depending on what bullet you're using. I have Dillon 9mm dies and their seperate crimp die can be set for tighter chambers. Their .45 acp crimp die works the same way. My Springfield Trophy Match had a tight chamber and the Dillon die worked fine for that gun. Big difference between a roll crimp and taper crimp die.

[1hole]

onelight is correct; carbide factory crimp die has an adjustable crimp.

Every crimp die I've ever seen is "adjustable" simply by raising and lowering the die body to obtain the degree of crimp the user choses.

[gifbohane]

I really don't care/mind what tools other reloaders use, and my thinking, for me, and no offense to anyone, using an FCD for handguns (with the post crimping sizing feature) is the "If it don't fit, get a bigger hammer" type thinking. My only real "concern" is many new reloaders visit reloading forums and many tend to believe what they read. So, reading about a band-aid short cut is actually detrimental to their reloading education...

Again, I mean no offense, just sharing my experience/opinions from many years of reloading...

I agree. But that is just me. I found it just as hard (or easy) to adjust as a taper crimp die. And I believe it corrects a loading shortcoming. "Factory Crimp" is a brilliant marketing term.

[tbobbo]

Wow, hot topic here! I got one trying to solve a problem that it didn’t fix. I did not get good results with the fcd with oversized cast boolits. When I load jacketed.....I get about 15 per 300 that don’t pass a case gauge. To make quick work of those rounds......I run them through the fcd and generally they all gauge after that. When I load, I check every round in a case gauge. I shoot uspsa and I don’t want my ammo causing problems. The fcd makes this faster. I have a couple here and there that don’t make it after the fcd, I just shoot them in practice and they all do work. My Lyman case gauge tends to be on the tight side. The fcd is just another tool in the box. It’s not always needed but it really helps when I do need it. I’m just a competition shooter, but if I was a cop you can be sure every round I ever loaded in my mags would be checked before I ever put them in my gun!