9mm problems in new gun

[Jal5]

The gun is a new Beretta 92FS and I have reloaded my cast boolits for two other 9 mm guns. I tried the new gun yesterday and fed it a variety of cast: Lee 358105 SWC, Lee 358125 RF and some xTreme 124 plated HP. all three had a few hangups cycling- looked like the round failed to enter the barrel and hung up. after inserting the round manually it fired fine in all cases. there was a second issue with a couple of times the slide failed to lock back on the last round fired. two different issues in my opinion. the gun seemed to like the xTreme 124s the best and the 358125 the least for accuracy.

How would you go about isolating the cause(s) for these issues? I really like the gun, the sight picture is great for me, the grip is comfortable, my only issue is the common one about that long trigger pull on the first shot which is DA- either I get used to it or have the spring changed out, I will need some more time in practice before deciding on that.

thanks in advance

Joe

[Petrol & Powder]

OK
First - I don't think there is such a thing as a universal cast bullet load for a 9mm pistol.
9mm pistols seem to be all over the map in terms of groove diameter, throat, feed ramps, etc. When it comes to 9mm pistols, I've always had to tailor the cartridge to the gun.

Second - the slide failing to lock back is probably a new gun issue or a magazine issue more than a ammo issue, unless you're operating a minimal power load. I would break in that Beretta before I made ANY changes.

The Beretta 92 series pistols are VERY reliable and generally will feed just about anything that sort of looks like a 9mm Luger cartridge.

As for cast bullets, I think the 120 gr TC design is about the most universal profile you can find. And in a Beretta, you will probably find .357" diameter to be a good starting point in terms of bullet diameter but your gun may tell you something different.


So, shoot that gun some more before you start changing anything.

[Petrol & Powder]

To address: ".......my only issue is the common one about that long trigger pull on the first shot which is DA- either I get used to it or have the spring changed out, I will need some more time in practice before deciding on that."

Having trained with a Beretta 92, ......a LOT; I can say that the DA pull is not the horrible thing that some people claim. It is merely a training/familiarity issue.

DO NOT start changing springs and doing other modifications.
Because the recoiling slide also cocks the hammer, the weight of the hammer spring factors into the slide velocity and functioning of the pistol. Leave it alone.
The hammer spring also has an effect on firing pin energy, again, leave it alone. The Beretta is very reliable.

Although the Beretta 92 FS is equipped with a hammer dropping safety, I never left the safety engaged. I would use the safety to drop the hammer and immediately return the safety to the fire position. The long DA pull acts as the primary safety (just like a DA revolver) and the pistol is perfectly safe with the hammer down and the safety off.
The G models have a safety that acts solely as a de-cocker and those safeties automatically return to the fire position when you release the lever. (similar to a SIG de-cocker).
So embrace that DA pull and train to operate it.

[John Boy]

Petrol ... well said. ANY new reload I prepare for ANY firearm is first chambered and extracted be insure it is correct before I continue reloading more. Otherwise, the dies are adjusted and insure there is a proper crimp

[Jal5]

I didn't shoot a lot of rounds through it yesterday due to the cold damp conditions...my fingers freeze up anymore due to poor circulation. I need a lot more practice with it to get adjusted to the long DA pull but that will come with practice I think. I plan to review those different rounds and see what the sizings are to determine where the problem may lie. The 358125 fit and fire fine in my S&W Shield but that gun does not like the 358105 SWC either, with similar failure to feed the rounds. I was surprised the xtreme bullet gave me any trouble at all. the S&W loves those no failures and its very accurate in that gun too.

Joe

[gnostic]

Your main problem sounds like a OAL issue. New springs, too stiff springs, or low velocity handloads can cause the slide not to lock back. I've sized .358 for years and never looked back...

[Misery-Whip]

Jal5 i can send you some 356-124-tc if you want to try some.

Id try more oil and maybe some factory rounds, and more shootin to break in before making too many changes.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

What Petrol & Powder said.

[exile]

Having only put a couple of magazines of factory ammunition through a friend's Beretta 92f, I am certainly no expert on the pistol, but I do have a few thoughts:

1. As this pistol is a military pistol, no doubt it would function best with a 124-125 grain round nose profile boolit loaded fairly hot. You could try such a boolit powder-coated and see what type of functioning you get.

2. A friend of mine has a CZ-75 clone that would not function to his expectations. He even sent it back to the manufacturer several times without resolution. He came to visit and brought the pistol with him, and I put 50 rounds of my cast boolit reloads through it with no issues. Possibly you have a few friends who could shoot the pistol and give you their impressions? If nothing else, in the current environment, you might make a few new friends?

3. Given your circulation issues, is it possible that you are limp-wristing the pistol?

4. I do agree with what others have said, at this point it seems like a bad idea to modify such an excellent pistol.

5. The way things are, it seems that it would be difficult to break in the pistol with factory ammunition. (Not that a Beretta 92f should need breaking in, at least not in my opinion.) Possibly it is time for a new mold?

As the above advice is free, it is worth exactly what you paid for it.

exile

[Jal5]

My 358125 rounds are OAL 1.045 and booliit sized to .357

These were fine in the S&W Shield. I will make some more but gradually reduce the OAL and the Bullseye too.

No problems with other pistols so I doubt it’s limp wristing.
Joe

[Winger Ed.]

Given your circulation issues, is it possible that you are limp-wristing the pistol?



That was my thought, but in the past, I've been hammered for even mentioning that.

Something I'd do first is take it apart and be sure there isn't any burrs or a high spot
on the rails the slide travels on and causing it to drag.

[jsizemore]

Is it a new gun or just new to you? It may need some rounds run through it to loosen up. Maybe a little more powder to get the slide to move back far enough to lock back on last round. Rounds in the mag create even more drag. It'll break in, then you can dial it in.

[Thumbcocker]

Put 500 rounds through it before you start changing stuff. It could just be breaking in issues.

[Larry Gibson]

What load or loads?

[Jal5]

Is it a new gun or just new to you? It may need some rounds run through it to loosen up. Maybe a little more powder to get the slide to move back far enough to lock back on last round. Rounds in the mag create even more drag. It'll break in, then you can dial it in.

New gun. Definitely will need a lot more rounds thru it before I consider any changes to it. I will adjust the Bullseye amount and probably OAL a bit on the next batch of reloads. Joe

[Jniedbalski]

My beretta 92fs had problems with the lee .358 105 gr loaded .010 below max mag leingth. I shortened them to can’t remember about .020 to .030 and it helped a lot. I also was using 4.0 gr of bulseye. Will try 4.3 to 4.5 next load. Also try to load as cast or size to .358 beretta’s run large. My 92 didint like them sized .357 got some leading. At .358 it went away. That size also fits my star pistole fine. It also likes the lee .356 120 tc as casted

[Petrol & Powder]

Jal5 - I don't wish to be super critical of your bullet choices but those two Lee bullets are better suited for revolvers than pistols. They can work in a pistol but the crimp groove limits them a bit.
A 9mm Luger cartridge headspaces on the mouth of the casing, so a taper crimp is the way to go. You can work around the crimp groove of those bullets if you must but a design such as the Lee 120 TC or a a simple FMJ bullet is easier to work with in a 9mm pistol.

[mdi]

FWIW; I have 4, 9mm pistols and all feed 100% of the Lee 125 RNFP sized to .357"+ with an OAL of 1.055" (my newest pistol, a Masada has a shorter chamber and needs an OAL .010" shorter than the rest, so I seat them all the same). I ignore the crimping groove and seat to my chosen OAL, then deflare. One that I don't shoot lead in any more has a .357" groove diameter and needs a .358"+ bullet, although I have a .359" sizing die, I guess I like the others better and just shoot J bullets in it.

All loads I produce are plunk tested a few times each session and on occasion a dummy hand cycled, just to make sure...

[tazman]

Beretta 92 pistols are famous for liking to run with a lot of oil. I would try oiling the rails liberally and use some full power loads and see how it works then.

[Jal5]

Took some measurements:

Crimp
0.377 for snapcap round, MFS manufacture, my xTreme hp
0.378 for my 358125 rf and 358105 swc

Plunk test using barrel
Snap cap deepest fit
MFS, 358105, xTreme hp about same depth just a little proud
358125 more proud

Using EGW CHAMBER CHECK
SNAP CAP and MFS below flush
358105 and xTreme about same depth almost flush
358125 most proud

OAL
Mfs 1.160
358105 1.050
XTreme 1.150
358125 1.0465

[farmbif]

I like jsizemores suggestion put a clip full of hot factory rounds or near full power or full power reloads through it and see how it runs, I'm no expert but sounds like slide is not racking back far enough or fast enough or smooth enough or something like that. ive had a semi auto or 2 that didn't want to run properly with anything but near full power or hotter loads.

[Jal5]

Beretta 92 pistols are famous for liking to run with a lot of oil. I would try oiling the rails liberally and use some full power loads and see how it works then.

My loads were 4.1 Bullseye for 358125
3.6 Bullseye for 358105

3.9 Bullseye in the xTreme 124 hp

[popper]

run with a lot of oil. I got a PX4 DA and it's fine. First shot is a crotch shot until you get used to it. Aim center mass and the first gets between the legs, not a problem! Just cock the hammer at the range.

[Lloyd Smale]

very few of the 9s ive tried the 105 in have ran it a 100 percent matter of fact only one out of 8 of them run it. even my 43 and 19 glocks choke on it. but it does run in my wifes lcp a 100 percent. About 99 percent of not locking back is do to a light load and if especially if your going to shoot a real light bullet like a 105 you need to kick it in the but. Lack of slide velocity do to light loads also could be just what is causing your feeding problems. back when everyone ran 1911s we realized that if we were going to shoot lighter bullets or lighter loads we needed to change to a lighter spring. With reliability like Glock brought to the market that art has been kind of lost. Everyone thinks you can stick anything in them and they will run. Well thats ALMOST true. Berretta 92s are big heavy guns with heavy slides that are sprung for full power military ball ammo and probably a bit over
sprung even for that because they know they might go many thousands of rounds before a spring is changed in them and that spring could be called on to shove a round into battery even in a gun that seen sand and mud. that kind of setup doesnt play well with light bullets or light loads.

[Jal5]

Thanks everyone. Time to do some tweaking on those loads specifically for the 92. I will let you know.
Joe

[Jal5]

Did tweak the xTreme Hp loads up a bit still below max and a little smaller OAL. GUN FIRED PERFECTLY. Pretty accurate too. Now I can work on the lead 358125. I think a little power increase will help there too.
Thx guys.
Joe