Gas check making dies!

[Brick85]

In the past week or so, I have seen not 1 but 2 inquiries into buying gas check makers for .223 and .30 cal boolits.

It's something I myself have been looking into. I realized that a friend of mine all the way across the country has a small machining setup and could make these, and he has expressed some interest. I believe he will be using the design stickied in this forum.

So I'd both like to gauge interest in these to see if I can get some sales to make it worthwhile for him to build these, and also discuss design considerations like what material he should plan on using for the checks (thinking aluminum step flashing material).

I imagine he could also make some GC for plain base boolits from beer can material as well as standard gas checks.

Now, I don't know much about gas checks and he knows even less. And I know little about machining. He and I both know some about boolit casting and have some experience reloading.

This could take some time to get moving as we work out bugs in the design of prototypes.

What are people's thoughts?

[sukivel]

I think you should do it! If they are made well and the price is reasonable I think they will sell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gunslinger1911]

In for multiple sizes from pop can material

[Brick85]

In for multiple sizes from pop can material

What sizes would you be looking for?

I like the idea of pop can material. But my question is whether there is any practical difference between using this material vs the aluminum flashing for normal boolits designed for gas checking. Particularly if the boolit is designed for regular copper gas checks, would the pop can be too thin? I also wonder if it's possible to make dies with interchangeable pieces which allow the die to use either thickness material. Keep the outer part the same but use different punches for pop can and flashing? Is there even a purpose for that? This is where my lack of knowledge beyondnthe basics of gas checking come into play.

[Bazoo]

Well I'd be interested in a set, I don't know what I'd be interested in though. In 30 caliber, normally I use Hornady checks, and have acquired some sages gator checks to test. I have no desire to switch to an inferior check. Now if it was a case where I could use aluminum flashing and it was easily available at lowes then I'd be interested in switching to aluminum. But I want the check to bite my shanks.

Might also consider tapping into the market of swaging dies. The price is the issue for many. If I could get a set of swaging dies for 200 instead of 400-500 or even 1000, I'd be a buyer. I'm interested in making 22 caliber bullets as well as 30 caliber.

[ACC]

The catch here is price I think. I would like one but price is steep.

ACC

[Brick85]

Well I'd be interested in a set, I don't know what I'd be interested in though. In 30 caliber, normally I use Hornady checks, and have acquired some sages gator checks to test. I have no desire to switch to an inferior check. Now if it was a case where I could use aluminum flashing and it was easily available at lowes then I'd be interested in switching to aluminum. But I want the check to bite my shanks.

Might also consider tapping into the market of swaging dies. The price is the issue for many. If I could get a set of swaging dies for 200 instead of 400-500 or even 1000, I'd be a buyer. I'm interested in making 22 caliber bullets as well as 30 caliber.

So the flashing would be a superior check?

I had the same thought about swaging equipment. But one step at a time.


The catch here is price I think. I would like one but price is steep.

ACC

What is a reasonable price? I see there are some for sale for popular handgun calibers for something like $109, is that within the realm of reasonable? That does seem on the high side for me. But still it would pay for itself quickly.

[Bazoo]

In my mind flashing would be better than coke cans, but I've not used either so I can't really say. Using coke cans might "work". But I ain't looking to make ammo that simply works, rather I want to make high quality ammo but at a lesser cost than what I'm currently making it.

I'd give 100 for a GC die set, but I don't know of any that price. One issue I have is sourcing the material. I don't know what to ask for, and if you go into lowes and ask for the best flashing for gas checks, they won't have a clue.

[daengmei]

Lowe's website list aluminum flashing rolls with specifications....?

[Rcmaveric]

Shank size to bore size of your bullets determines your material thickness. You have to measure and do some math to see your wiggle room. I didnt make mine.

Dima made all of mine for me and would be who I would message if I decided to try my hand at making them. Pat made them commercially but have never done buisness or message him.

I know all the designs posted are tried and true. You just have to measure your bullets and send in the numbers.

Best way to do it is to send in your example bullets. That way the dies can be tested and polished as needed for fit.

On a side note you can have your 35 cal die made with different pins so it can make plane base checks and 35 cal checks. That was Dima smooth thinking.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[sukivel]

I’ve used aluminum checks before and didn’t like them since they didn’t “bite” the bullet, but they are better than nothing and maybe we could get aluminum with the bite?!?

Like others, less expensive swaging die sets would be awesome.

As far as check sizes...

.22
.30
.35
.375
.45

All popular choices...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gunslinger1911]

I think the thicker flashing is used for boolets with a GC base. The thinner pop can checks are for "plain base" boolets.
I have Pats plain base GC makers in 35, 40, 44, 45, 50. They work great !
But single pass check makers in 35 and 45 would be worth ~$100 ish

[ACC]

So the flashing would be a superior check?

I had the same thought about swaging equipment. But one step at a time.



What is a reasonable price? I see there are some for sale for popular handgun calibers for something like $109, is that within the realm of reasonable? That does seem on the high side for me. But still it would pay for itself quickly.

$109 would be high for me. $50 or $60 would be about right.

ACC

[roscottjr]

I think the thicker flashing is used for boolets with a GC base. The thinner pop can checks are for "plain base" boolets.
I have Pats plain base GC makers in 35, 40, 44, 45, 50. They work great !
But single pass check makers in 35 and 45 would be worth ~$100 ish

Correct on the difference between flashing and pop cans.

[roscottjr]

$109 would be high for me. $50 or $60 would be about right.

ACC

I too would be interested at around $50-$60. However, $100, while a little steep, could be considered reasonable depending on the quality and features so to speak. Also, if this is done like a group buy sort of thing then the final price will depend largely on the number of buyers.

[Doubletap]

Gas check dies in .25, .30, 35, and .44 would be of interest to me. I'd only be using them on gas check design bullets, so the thicker flashing would be of interest. Quality of the finished check would be of more interest than price. Cheap dies with poor performance aren't a bargain.

[Brick85]

So I'm going to look into flashing, see the thickness available at Home Depot. Talking to my friend about which design to use has generated more questions than answers in my mind. It seems like the most affordable and accurate design would be a design where you manually pull the gas check off the punch rather than one which pushes the completed checks through into a bottle.

Then he raised the question of why not have a die which seats the gas check on the boolitnat the same time? That question right there has my brain reeling since I honestly haven't even used my lubrisizer much. Would that be a benefit, especially for PC bullets? Or pretty much anything have to run through the sizer, and trying to srst the check with the GC maker would then introduce the complexity of a top punch?

The current plan is for my friend to get the materials locally, and make a .30 cal gas check die. He will then make some gas checks and send them to me to try out. Would a few others who are more experienced with gas checking also be willing to try some out to see whether adjustments to the design need to be made? What is a reasonable number sample, 50 gas checks? I don't even have a load developed for the GC boolit and it's a day long affair to get to the range to test things, so someone who is prepared to seat checks and test the boolits would really speed the project along.

[Bazoo]

I have a system worked up seating the gas checks with my Lyman 450 and don't want to change personally. The system I have worked up adds a minuscule amount of time. Seating the check on the die that makes it would add a handling operation. The way I do it now is, drop the check and bullet on top of the sizer die with my homemade gas check seater accessory installed, seat the check, jerk out the seater and then size and lube the bullet. Replace the seater tool. It adds very little time and no extra handling of the bullet. I got a rythm down.

I have a good load developed for 30-30 using the Lyman 31141 lubed with Hornady checks. I could offer direct comparison between the two. 50 would be sufficient. 10-15 would be enough though to test accuracy and leading.

I have no issues removing the check from the punch or whatever, but like stated, the quality of the checks made is worth a bit extra money or work over a fiddly cheap made product.

[roscottjr]

Bazoo pretty much said it all. I haven't yet used gas checks but I am aware of how they work. The manner in which he explained for adding the gas check is right on.

Also, I agree that quality is king. I think a gas checker maker that is capable of doing other things would pick up where others have left off but only if the quality is there also. In this case, maybe a gas check maker with optional accessories. That way one who hasn't used it before or questions the quality could try out just the gas check maker without spending too much. The available accessories could be things like maybe a cup to catch the gas checks, or any number of other things.

[plus1hdcp]

Another thing for your consideration is the measurement of the shank of your boolit versus the final sizing size you need. This is what will determine the size material needed. I can assure you the aluminum found in soda/beer cans will not serve your needs on a boolit with a gas check shank. They will be perfect for plain based boolits. You will also find that your mold might drop a .001 or .002 different than mine or others. A couple of different gauges of aluminum will allow you to punch out and try which one will properly crimp for your needs. I needed to go to a .014 thick piece to serve my needs on my 30-06 however the same punch with .010 thick aluminum is perfect for my 7.62x39. This is directly attributed to my casting abilities, molds and lead mix.

[Bazoo]

My 31141 has a fat shank. The Hornady checks and gator checks both will push on but not seat. In other words they are a tight fit. I like that. The Lee 309-150-F has a smaller shank. I can provide samples of both if needed.

[Brick85]

Got it. Quality is king and the dies should just make the check. This is what I was thinking but figured I should mention my friend's idea.

So when we actually get the first gas check making die prototype made, I will ask folks to PM me info to send a sample batch of 50 gas checks to try.

One question I do have is I am apparently sizing my boolits at .311 since that is the sizer die I have. This is for .30-06 and .308 and .300 Savage, not just one rifle at this point. I haven't had a chance to slug all the barrels etc. What size is the OD of the check? I will be seating with my Lyman 450 which I haven't really set up just yet. I figure while he is making the dies maybe I can get my casting setup going and set up the lubrisizer. Kind of a big "if" with how busy I've been lately.


Another thing for your consideration is the measurement of the shank of your boolit versus the final sizing size you need. This is what will determine the size material needed. I can assure you the aluminum found in soda/beer cans will not serve your needs on a boolit with a gas check shank. They will be perfect for plain based boolits. You will also find that your mold might drop a .001 or .002 different than mine or others. A couple of different gauges of aluminum will allow you to punch out and try which one will properly crimp for your needs. I needed to go to a .014 thick piece to serve my needs on my 30-06 however the same punch with .010 thick aluminum is perfect for my 7.62x39. This is directly attributed to my casting abilities, molds and lead mix.

Where do you get the different thicknesses of aluminum?

[Rcmaveric]

I paid around 100 a die with shipping. While a hundred is expensive to me. I think is reasonable for anything of quality and hand made.

60 to 80 bucks including shipping would be a steal and I am not sure that would be sustainable in the long run.



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[Spedsterguy]

Im very interested in a set. Please let me know

[SweetMk]

Got it.

Quality is king and the dies should just make the check.

Where do you get the different thicknesses of aluminum?

If flashing from HD and Lowes are from different manufacturers, they will be different thicknesses,, IMHO,

If you get flashing from 2018, and 2021, they will be different thicknesses

We have a business in Roanoke that only sells siding to installers,,
I would bet the flashing from them guys would be WAY different than the stuff from the "big box stores".

An interesting source of material might be the guys that go around and make gutter "at the job site",
They have a machine on a trailer that shapes a gutter from a big roll of sheet aluminum.
That sheet aluminum might be more consistent than the thickness of flashing sold by a big box store.

No one would want to have to change a gutter machine setup just because the thickness of the sheet changed,,
I would think the gutter machine needs to be set to the thickness of the material to be rolled into a gutter shape? :veryconfu

[SweetMk]

Oh, yea,,
if you get the sheet aluminum from the guys that roll the gutter shape with the machine on the trailer,,
you could get interesting anodized colors, like bronze, or dark brown,, or,,, :?

:mrgreen:

[Brick85]

If flashing from HD and Lowes are from different manufacturers, they will be different thicknesses,, IMHO,

If you get flashing from 2018, and 2021, they will be different thicknesses

We have a business in Roanoke that only sells siding to installers,,
I would bet the flashing from them guys would be WAY different than the stuff from the "big box stores".

An interesting source of material might be the guys that go around and make gutter "at the job site",
They have a machine on a trailer that shapes a gutter from a big roll of sheet aluminum.
That sheet aluminum might be more consistent than the thickness of flashing sold by a big box store.

No one would want to have to change a gutter machine setup just because the thickness of the sheet changed,,
I would think the gutter machine needs to be set to the thickness of the material to be rolled into a gutter shape? :veryconfu

This is a good point. I can ask the suppliers around here who sell to those guys if I can measure the thickness of their flashing and hope they don't think I am making some innuendo!

I do want to check at both HD and Lowes and see the thickness. Remember that they have a setup at the factory thatnthey wouldn't want to change, either. So maybe there will be some consistency.

[roscottjr]

Actually if you are looking at using gutter aluminum there is a better option with colors to choose from. It is call aluminum trim coil. You can get it at Lowes or Home Depot in a few colors or even more colors on Amazon. A roll 24 inches wide and 50 feet long is around $100 to $150 depending on where you get it and sometimes the color. Now here is the catch, you can also find this from anyone who installs vinyl siding. The drawback here is 1 roll would probably be more than most would ever need, but they are also sold in smaller rolls of 6 inch wide x 120 inch long for $39.95 on Amazon. It is Eagle brand 26 gauge or .018 thick. The 6 inch wide would be really easy to work with as you could just cut 6 inch strips to the width needed for the check maker and wouldn't have to fight with a large piece. That may be the size I would shoot for if making this happens, but someone would need to measure a gas check boolit to see if that size will work. I am just thinking outside the box here, If anyone knows what I am saying will not work feel free to speak up.. :-)

[Brick85]

Actually if you are looking at using gutter aluminum there is a better option with colors to choose from. It is call aluminum trim coil. You can get it at Lowes or Home Depot in a few colors or even more colors on Amazon. A roll 24 inches wide and 50 feet long is around $100 to $150 depending on where you get it and sometimes the color. Now here is the catch, you can also find this from anyone who installs vinyl siding. The drawback here is 1 roll would probably be more than most would ever need, but they are also sold in smaller rolls of 6 inch wide x 120 inch long for $39.95 on Amazon. It is Eagle brand 26 gauge or .018 thick. The 6 inch wide would be really easy to work with as you could just cut 6 inch strips to the width needed for the check maker and wouldn't have to fight with a large piece. That may be the size I would shoot for if making this happens, but someone would need to measure a gas check boolit to see if that size will work. I am just thinking outside the box here, If anyone knows what I am saying will not work feel free to speak up.. :-)

This is stuff I have some experience with. The trim coil you speak of is generally coated in vinyl and there is no guarantee it is a consistent thickness, particularly between manufacturers. I would sooner recommend "mill finish" uncoated rolls of aluminum. But I think the pre-cut rectangles for "step flashing" would be easier to handle. Not everyone can easily cut rolls of aluminum into strips with a brake like me.

[roscottjr]

Brick85 you make a good point. I was thinking of my brake and other tools. lol.. I didn't think about the vinyl coating either, I think you are right, it would probably need to be mill finish to get a consistent thickness. Step flashing is probably a good idea as well but do they make step flashing in aluminum? The step flashing I have seen and used wasn't aluminum.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have a Freechex III in 22 cal mounted in a Arbor Press.
There was a bit of a learning curving to using it. Shortly after I bought it, I managed to bust bottom half of the die. The die maker said he would replace it, but I was told I needed to wait for the next batch of dies to come back from the Heat Treater.

Now I don't know anything about machining Check makers, but I'm guessing they need to be heat treated. So the metal of choice is one that takes to being heat treated.

BTW, my die setup was designed to use alum Lith-plate which is .008 with some sort of coating, I form them with coating to outside. The GC's made have worked well on several different manufacturers 22 cal Molds that I have.

[Brick85]

Brick85 you make a good point. I was thinking of my brake and other tools. lol.. I didn't think about the vinyl coating either, I think you are right, it would probably need to be mill finish to get a consistent thickness. Step flashing is probably a good idea as well but do they make step flashing in aluminum? The step flashing I have seen and used wasn't aluminum.

I've definitely seen and bought rectangular aluminum step flashing in the past. I always figured it was the same stuff as the mill finish roll stock. However, the new stuff I saw online seems to be pre-bent, which is counterproductive for this purpose. I'm hoping to get a chance to look in the store and see what they are selling.


I have a Freechex III in 22 cal mounted in a Arbor Press.
There was a bit of a learning curving to using it. Shortly after I bought it, I managed to bust bottom half of the die. The die maker said he would replace it, but I was told I needed to wait for the next batch of dies to come back from the Heat Treater.

Now I don't know anything about machining Check makers, but I'm guessing they need to be heat treated. So the metal of choice is one that takes to being heat treated.

BTW, my die setup was designed to use alum Lith-plate which is .008 with some sort of coating, I form them with coating to outside. The GC's made have worked well on several different manufacturers 22 cal Molds that I have.

Where is lith-plate available? Do print shops still use that and get rid of it?

[roscottjr]

If print shops still use lith-plate and get rid of it then using that leave me out as far as using lith plate. lol. Print shops around here don't give anything away.

Seriously though, I have no idea what lith plate is. I just seen monotype a few days ago for the first time, and that was because another user here traded me some for some things I was selling. I still haven't seen any linotype in person and don't even know how to distinguish monotype. lol.. Im getting there though.

[farmbif]

I would be interested in reasonably priced check making dies.
sounds great idea to me, for me to make anything precision on a lathe has escaped me. but I may be able to help with lathe or mill cutting bits.

[Brick85]

If print shops still use lith-plate and get rid of it then using that leave me out as far as using lith plate. lol. Print shops around here don't give anything away.

Seriously though, I have no idea what lith plate is. I just seen monotype a few days ago for the first time, and that was because another user here traded me some for some things I was selling. I still haven't seen any linotype in person and don't even know how to distinguish monotype. lol.. Im getting there though.

I believe lith plate is used as a substrate to hold the image to be printed on a printing press. It is photographically imprinted on the lith plate and then developed and put into the press. From what I recall working at a print shop 20 years ago. Now they may save these plates or may toss them when done. This doesn't seem like an ideal material for gas checks to me unless there is a trick to getting lots of them.

[bruce drake]

I double over the pop can aluminum strips from soda cans and they come out a very nice checks for my .22 caliber work.

That said, i would be in the market for a 30 caliber gas check die set.

Bruce

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Do print shops still use that and get rid of it?
I assume so.

[Markopolo]

how about this equation from Floyd's pages for gas check thickness.

X = (SD-ShD)/2 where SD is sizing diameter, ShD is shank diameter and X is the material gauge.

[Gunslinger1911]

As for priceing is better obviously, but the maker has to make a profit.
I and others (a bunch I'd guess) pay ~$100 for the two pass Pat Marlins dies.
I'm all in at ~$100 for a one pass die.
Take my money, please !!!!!!!!!

[redneck1]

I'll give some input that might not be met with a favorable opinion by a lot of people from my own experience with making gas check tools .
More of what I have to say will be opinion rather then fact so take it as you like .

So my first opinion is you'll never be able to make gas check tools profitably with a manual machine at a price people will be willing to pay .
If its just a short term idea to make some extra cash and you don't care about the time invested that's a whole lot different .
Otherwise , its a CNC thing .

So let's move on to actually making tools along with the materials you'll use for the checks themselves .
Manufacturer's like hornaday make nice perfect consistent checks by buying certified stock that meets their specs , us consumer types don't really have that option , so we use stuff like soda cans and roof flashing .
While soda cans are very consistent ( certified material ).
Things like roof flashing aren't so we need to adjust how we make the tools .
For the guy with a lathe making his own tool this isn't a big issue , he goes out and buys a roll of flashing that will more then likely be a lifetime supply and he makes his tools to suit his material .

A person wanting to build a tool for profit doesn't have that option .
He has to make a tool that will work with materials that will very in thickness and hardness .
That's not as easy to do as it might seem , while its for sure not impossible it will require a sizable time investment to do the development work .
ie .. Make check makers and buy different size stock till you figure out what will work .
And then test to make sure the checks your tool makes actually work .
Time invested here usually outweighs money invested by a large amount . unless you don't care about what your selling and don't care if 35% of your customers are unhappy .

Ethics are another consideration , if your planning on designing your own tool from scratch no worries .
But if your planning on profiting from someone else's idea a person should consider tracking down the person who had the idea and see what they think of you profiting from their work .

As a person with machine tools and a moral compass I wouldn't take another persons idea and use it to make a profit without their permission
No matter how many places I can find those plans for free .

Lastly , just in case your skeptical when I say you can't make a check maker profitably on a manual lathe because you see some threads where a guy says he made his homemade tool in two hours ....
Go out and make one yourself , see what you think , then make four more
Identical tools and see how you feel .
Its a whole lot easier to make one perfect tool then it is to make 5

I've made a check maker or two ... Yet I still buy gas checks because I can't make checks that work as good as I can buy .
The tools themselves arent to blame , its the crappy material that's available to use .

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I'd like to check boolits for the .357 and .44. Probably could get away with just tumble lubing then as opposed to powder coating them.

[roscottjr]

After reading all the comments it leads me to another question. I have noticed how there are more people getting into powder coating. Does powder coating do away with the need to gas check all boolits or do some still need to have a gas check?

[Brick85]

I'll give some input that might not be met with a favorable opinion by a lot of people from my own experience with making gas check tools .
More of what I have to say will be opinion rather then fact so take it as you like .

So my first opinion is you'll never be able to make gas check tools profitably with a manual machine at a price people will be willing to pay .
If its just a short term idea to make some extra cash and you don't care about the time invested that's a whole lot different .
Otherwise , its a CNC thing .

So let's move on to actually making tools along with the materials you'll use for the checks themselves .
Manufacturer's like hornaday make nice perfect consistent checks by buying certified stock that meets their specs , us consumer types don't really have that option , so we use stuff like soda cans and roof flashing .
While soda cans are very consistent ( certified material ).
Things like roof flashing aren't so we need to adjust how we make the tools .
For the guy with a lathe making his own tool this isn't a big issue , he goes out and buys a roll of flashing that will more then likely be a lifetime supply and he makes his tools to suit his material .

A person wanting to build a tool for profit doesn't have that option .
He has to make a tool that will work with materials that will very in thickness and hardness .
That's not as easy to do as it might seem , while its for sure not impossible it will require a sizable time investment to do the development work .
ie .. Make check makers and buy different size stock till you figure out what will work .
And then test to make sure the checks your tool makes actually work .
Time invested here usually outweighs money invested by a large amount . unless you don't care about what your selling and don't care if 35% of your customers are unhappy .

Ethics are another consideration , if your planning on designing your own tool from scratch no worries .
But if your planning on profiting from someone else's idea a person should consider tracking down the person who had the idea and see what they think of you profiting from their work .

As a person with machine tools and a moral compass I wouldn't take another persons idea and use it to make a profit without their permission
No matter how many places I can find those plans for free .

Lastly , just in case your skeptical when I say you can't make a check maker profitably on a manual lathe because you see some threads where a guy says he made his homemade tool in two hours ....
Go out and make one yourself , see what you think , then make four more
Identical tools and see how you feel .
Its a whole lot easier to make one perfect tool then it is to make 5

I've made a check maker or two ... Yet I still buy gas checks because I can't make checks that work as good as I can buy .
The tools themselves arent to blame , its the crappy material that's available to use .

Very good points. I am looking to ultimately get some PB GC makers for 9mm and .357 and .40 so once I get my friend able to make them, it would enable me to get nonstandard sizes. He is not looking to make this his career, just a side hustle.


After reading all the comments it leads me to another question. I have noticed how there are more people getting into powder coating. Does powder coating do away with the need to gas check all boolits or do some still need to have a gas check?

My understanding is that a GC will do things PC won't such as stop gas cutting. While PC will gain you some velocity and has other features, there are folks who both PC and GC.

[ACC]

Liability also plays a part in this. If you make a tool and you sell it and you have done everything you know how to do to make it safe but some hillbilly's gun blows up and it is because your tool made a gas check that caught in the barrel you better have a good lawyer.

My 2 cents worth.

ACC

[Shamus]

Lithographic plate comes in .008, .010 and .012. After years of using all kinds of litho, I buy the .008 "blanks" new which are considered uncoated for my plain base gas checks. Newspapers use the .008 plates with a coating on one side. They are messy used, but you can find them cheap sometimes. Offset print shops will use the .010 plates for heavy duty print jobs, might find some used ones locally. You will need to clean up used plates with paint thinner. The .010 thickness is good for .22's and .35's.

Most of the FreeChex III tools were made to use the amerimax roof valley flashing that is about .015 thick 3003-H14 bare aluminum. They still make it, but its hard to get them to ship the right thickness! Its best to find a local building supplier and measure the rolls in person. I have tried a large number of suppliers and you can't find small amounts of quality H14 easily. You just need to call around and see.

The .015 aluminum works great on .30's and its used in valley flashing sometimes. Keep in mind the valley flashing can vary in thickness, its not consistent like you get from a custom metal supplier.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Redneck1's post is spot on. I've made a couple check makers and always found out that I should have made this dimension .002 larger or that part .0005 smaller. The checks worked, but made me appreciate how affordable good Gator checks are.

[midnight]

Take your micrometer to Home Depot or Lowes & measure the rolls of flashing. I have been able to get flashing from .009 to .017 & make checks in different thicknesses. If shanks are a little too small, use a thicker check. Measure flashing in several places & you will find variation within one roll. The quality control is not the greatest nor is it nesessary for the intended purpose but the price is right.

Bob

[Brick85]

Take your micrometer to Home Depot or Lowes & measure the rolls of flashing. I have been able to get flashing from .009 to .017 & make checks in different thicknesses. If shanks are a little too small, use a thicker check. Measure flashing in several places & you will find variation within one roll. The quality control is not the greatest nor is it nesessary for the intended purpose but the price is right.

Bob

I did this and while I did find varying thicknesses, most of the stuff from Home Depot and 1 example from Lowes (the pre-bent aluminum step flashing) was .014. So I am figuring this would be the appropriate thickness. They had an 8"x10' roll which should yield something like 4000 .30 cal gas checks for $8. Bigger rolls were even more economical for the square footage. So I think it is totally feasible for anyone ordering a gas check maker to stock up a lifetime's supply.

[Gunslinger1911]

A while ago I posted a link to a version of a FreeChex 3.
$110
It is set up for "Valley Flashing" - good for boolits with a GC cut.
I think there would be quite a few people that would like a one pass set up for pop cans (plain base boolits)
I have 5 or 6 of Pat's PB makers, but would spend $ on a one pass for a couple of sizes.
Pat's are about $100 (but were double pass), FreeChex were considerably more - but not made anymore.
I would think $100-120 for a single pass set up for the buyers thickness would sell.
Plans are available for one pass makers (with dimensions and formulas for various calibers and thickness of sheet stock.
Son in law is a machinist, but his shop is swamped these days (yay for him, bad for me - haha)

[dverna]

As to the metal stock, there was a guy selling rolls of it for making GC’s.

I bought GC makers (FreeCheck and Pat Marlin) and the stock years ago for if/when the SHTF. Have not played with the stuff so cannot comment on its quality. IIRC prices were not too bad or I would not have made the purchase for something I had no immediate need for.

As to “feelers” to justify a venture, lots of people will show interest until they need to send $$$. Most guys who will spend money, like me, have already done so as these makers are not new.

I expect your market to be small unless you offer a tool that is far superior to what others have or are selling. So that is your first challenge. Then, can you manufacture it at a low enough cost to make a profit. I doubt you can sell even a perfect one pass GC maker for more than $150. Use that to run your numbers. Figure a market of 50 .30 cal units for your first year. Regrettably, that is likely your best case scenario and reality could be worse.

If I were you, I would get a prototype made. Then do a lot of testing. If it shows promise, I would partner with someone like Outpost75, Larry Gibson, or Tim Malcom. They are able to cast excellent bullets and are no BS guys who command a lot of respect on this forum. They will give you an honest assessment of your tool, and evaluation of how the checks from it compare to commercial GC’s. BTW, there are other good talented guys here but those three come to mind immediately. In any case, you need someone who knows what they are doing and others respect. It will triple your sales over going at this by yourself.

Lastly, reach out to Randy Buchanan. He designed and manufactured an excellent portable hand press that was very well received a couple of years ago....likely the best unit ever made. Price was reasonable too. He offered it on this site and I doubt he sold more than 100.

[35 Whelen]

The most readily available aluminum material for gas checks? "No Trespassing" signs. I've been using them for years in my home-made check maker and they work great.

https://i.imgur.com/D2HdDMGl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ZmHecAnl.jpg

Overall, that is for the last 10+ years, I get slightly better accuracy with checks from this material than with commercial copper checks. But alas my checkmaker, which was made of standard soft bolts, is about worn out so I'm on the lookout for a replacement.

35W

[Retumbo]

The most readily available aluminum material for gas checks? "No Trespassing" signs. I've been using them for years in my home-made check maker and they work great.

https://i.imgur.com/D2HdDMGl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ZmHecAnl.jpg

Overall, that is for the last 10+ years, I get slightly better accuracy with checks from this material than with commercial copper checks. But alas my checkmaker, which was made of standard soft bolts, is about worn out so I'm on the lookout for a replacement.

35W

I make my own checkmaker too


https://youtu.be/pLgwKG8XFKs

[Bazoo]

What thickness is the no trespassing signs? Bout how many checks you get from one?

[35 Whelen]

What thickness is the no trespassing signs? Bout how many checks you get from one?

The signs are .012" and I could get around 330 each .30 caliber checks from each sign.

35W

[Bazoo]

Preciate the info.

[fcvan]

I joined this site because a web search for check making dies took me here. I have several dies from PatMarlins for standard and plain based checks. We still trade emails every now and then.

I had Ace Hardware order Amerimax Flashing in several thicknesses which Arrived in a few days. I got some lithograph plate from a member here in a trade. Good stuff. Plain base checks from soda can can be varied in thickness because 12 ounce cans are not as thick as bigger energy drink cans. I saved up some from when my nephew would buy a rock star or a monster. Mountain Dew has a good green color for Zombie boolits.

I purchased a paper cutter from Harbor Freight which does quick work of cutting aluminum strips. I found that annealing the aluminum flashing strips made checks easier to punch out and the stayed on better. I cut 10 or so strips which get held by vise grips for a 15 or 20 second dunk into my lead pot. As far as thickness goes, different molds have different shanks sizes so thinner or thicker gets made up and stored in a sandwich baggie marked with the thickness and mold made for.

Baseball season was always time for check making and I would make a thousand of each. The plain base checks are pretty cool and work great on a couple of tapered molds for conical boolits for a percussion revolver. Loaded in a 20" barrel in 45 Colt carbine was impressive with just under 2000 fps with a 200 RN HP mold. Over kill really, standard 45 Colt loads from the carbine are plenty enough medicine for deer sized game. I probably have 2k checks made from each die I own. I think the only checks I still use are for a NOE mold in 30 caliber. When I started powder coating everything I stopped using checks and just 'shake and bake' plain based boolits. I get 2450 fps out of a .223 rifle with no checks, and that isn't bad.

[sukivel]

I joined this site because a web search for check making dies took me here. I have several dies from PatMarlins for standard and plain based checks. We still trade emails every now and then.

I had Ace Hardware order Amerimax Flashing in several thicknesses which Arrived in a few days. I got some lithograph plate from a member here in a trade. Good stuff. Plain base checks from soda can can be varied in thickness because 12 ounce cans are not as thick as bigger energy drink cans. I saved up some from when my nephew would buy a rock star or a monster. Mountain Dew has a good green color for Zombie boolits.

I purchased a paper cutter from Harbor Freight which does quick work of cutting aluminum strips. I found that annealing the aluminum flashing strips made checks easier to punch out and the stayed on better. I cut 10 or so strips which get held by vise grips for a 15 or 20 second dunk into my lead pot. As far as thickness goes, different molds have different shanks sizes so thinner or thicker gets made up and stored in a sandwich baggie marked with the thickness and mold made for.

Baseball season was always time for check making and I would make a thousand of each. The plain base checks are pretty cool and work great on a couple of tapered molds for conical boolits for a percussion revolver. Loaded in a 20" barrel in 45 Colt carbine was impressive with just under 2000 fps with a 200 RN HP mold. Over kill really, standard 45 Colt loads from the carbine are plenty enough medicine for deer sized game. I probably have 2k checks made from each die I own. I think the only checks I still use are for a NOE mold in 30 caliber. When I started powder coating everything I stopped using checks and just 'shake and bake' plain based boolits. I get 2450 fps out of a .223 rifle with no checks, and that isn't bad.

Which .223 pb bullet are you using with that load?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Schreck5]

You got my attention. .454" for .45 colt plain base, and .30 cal gc.

[Big Ben]

I would like to make my own, the the cost of the ones on the market have scared me off. A $60ish dollar model would be great. .22, .25, .30 and .35 would be nice.

[redneck1]

A couple comments I'd like to comment on

Dverna pretty much hit the nail on the head with what I'd expect a realistic price to be @ $150.00 from a makers view point.

Big Ben hit upon the buyers view point with price scaring him off and what he looks at as a fair price @ $60 or so .

One thing i wish was realistic about dverna 's comment was the expectation of being able to sale 100 of them @ $150. In a years time .
If I had a working design and 100 people willing to plunk down the money and willing to wait 4-6 months I could buy a CNC lathe and go into business and make a reasonable profit in the first year .

But reality is .. Big Ben .
Most guys , me included just aren't willing to plunk down that kind of money for a check maker .

[Hanzy4200]

I'd love to see some inexpensive swaging dies. I've got buckets of .40 S&W, and I'm surely never going to load that God forsaken caliber.

[SweetMk]

One thing i wish was realistic about dverna 's comment was the expectation of being able to sale 100 of them @ $150. In a years time .
If I had a working design and 100 people willing to plunk down the money and willing to wait 4-6 months

I could buy a CNC lathe and go into business and make a reasonable profit in the first year .
.

$150 X 100 = $15,000 Maybe your customer hope was off by one digit?

Heck, if $15K could set you up in CNC lathe business,, you could clerk at 7-11 for 6 months, and have the money,,

I thought you would need more like $150K advanced sales, to cover the machine, materials, possible heat treat needs, etc,,
and have a little left over to pay for electricity,,,:?:

[redneck1]

Not so ... I could buy a machine right now that's capable of making check makers for about $4300 .
Another $1500 to tool it up , $1000 for a small heat treat furnace
$500 for materials , $1000 for shipping.
$1000 or so for electric and scrap parts getting things dialed in .
Another $1000 or so for things unexpected.

And if things go smoothly ... The rest is the small reasonable profit .

Of course there is a few glitches in that fairy tale , mostly money and a lack of it :)
And a lack of working design that doesn't belong to someone else .
But it could be done

On the money aspect of it , I personally wouldn't invest my own money in it simply because I don't feel you could sell enough check makers fast enough to be a worthwhile investment

[worker]

I am willing to up $60 and wait 6 months. Unfortunately 150$ (even if it is delivered in a week) -- would be a no go for me.

[Rcmaveric]

Just found a guy on Facebook making them for 60 bucks.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[redneck1]

Please let us all know how that works out . sounds to good to be true to me. But I've been wrong many many times .

[Rcmaveric]

I am all stocked up. Dima made mine.

We were just talking about this here and I saw it in one of Facebook groups.

https://www.facebook.com/Daves-Mini-Machine-Shop-115005990253152/

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[ascast]

I'd like to buy cheaper/ crimp on GC. Very interested in off size calibers, like 11mm, things like that.

[millerwb]

I'd love to see some inexpensive swaging dies. I've got buckets of .40 S&W, and I'm surely never going to load that God forsaken caliber.

Well, some of us load that all the time! I have several and my main carry is .40 S&W.

[donerightsigns]

i have not been here for 5 or more years.. just read your comment on aluminum flashing. I get my flashing from home depot. 6in. wide role 10ft long .010in. thick. made my own blank maker using a lee sizing die and drilled out to .435 and a punch ram to fit inside to pop out the blanks.

[fcvan]

Which .223 pb bullet are you using with that load?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry for the late response. NOE 225-62 RN designed for powder coating, no gas check, just PC, Lyman book load for 55 gr cast. works great in 16" Mini 14 and AR 15 Carbines at 2250 FPS (1-09: and 1-10"), and 2450 in a 24" Single shot (1-12") same load