Thinking about a Blunderbuss

[LAGS]

For a long time I have wanted to get or build a Blunderbuss.
Do any of you have any experience or recommendations ?
I have seen the Transitions Blunderbuss.
It isn't what I am looking for.
It is a Cap Lock and the barrel looks like they just made a Funnel on a shortened 54 caliber barrel.
The stock also looks more like a Crossbow stock with no ramrod.
I see several models on line for nice kits with Steel barrels.
That will work because I have a friend down in Yuma that makes a fantastic bluing formula that he sells on E Bay.
He can also do my browning at a very good price.
I have also been looking at some of the Brass Barrel Blunderbuss imported from India.
They are complete and shootable , plus look really traditional.
You feedback is welcome , plus any places where you recommend buying the Blunderbuss or who sells good kits.

[Brick85]

Oh, man, I saw a finished one, probably from a kit, at a gun show recently. Flintlock. He wanted maybe $200 but I had already spent all my money! It had a brass barrel though. But it was super cool. I'd also love to find a kit!

[Triggerfinger]

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/traditions-blunderbuss-kit-54-caliber-percussion.html

[LAGS]

Thanks Trigger finger.
But that is the Traditions that I don't want.
Not to downgrade that gun , and I would probably buy one if it was something for fun every week.

[RU shooter]

Pecatonica has a nice looking kit 75 cal . You could delete or just buy any of the parts you wanted and make it how you want .
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/blunderbuss.shtml

[toot]

who doesn't like them??

[Nobade]

Rayl makes a 4 bore barrel...looks like a good start to a good one.

[bedbugbilly]

Like RU shooter suggests - Pecatonica seems like it would a good place to start.

25 or so years ago, there was someone who made a really decent BB barrel in both steel and brass - and it may have been at the Pecatonica booth at Friendship that I saw them or at their boot at the Kalamazoo gun show as for some reason, I associate the barrels I saw with them. They had a nice profile and looked like a number of the originals - not like a funnel slapped on the end of a regular barrel as you describe.

I would google some photos of some originals for ideas - and if you make one, design it the sway you like it.

[waksupi]

Rayl makes a 4 bore barrel...looks like a good start to a good one.

This is the one to go with for a blunderbuss.

I've considered building one for years, but know darned well I would probably never fire it a hundred times in my life.

[LAGS]

I would love to have a 4 bore.
But I don't think you can hunt with them.
I think the law is max 10 bore for hunting.
But that may not apply to B P guns.
69 or 75 cal would be my choice.
The Pecatonica looks like a good deal.
I will have to call them and see if it can be ordered with Brass hardware and verify if the barrel is just a Cannon muzzle or it is a true Flaired bore at the end.

[RU shooter]

What is a 4 bore ? ABouts 1.25 dia bore ?

[LAGS]

4 bore is 1.025 bore.
The size of a lead ball the diameter of the barrel weighs 4 ounces
But the barrel is normally loaded with shot , buckshot or a Buck and ball load.
I too may not end up firing the Blunderbuss much.
But that is why I want to Fancy it up.
My wife wants me to display it on the wall.
I also may opt for a Maple stock and do Lichtenberg Fractural Wood Burning patterns on the stock.
It looks like Lightening patterns on the wood.
And that will go well with the original Blunderbuss name. "Donderbuss " meaning "Thunder Pipe" in Dutch

[jdfoxinc]

Middlesex village trading company.

[Nobade]

Middlesex village trading company.

For a wall hanger maybe. Not for shooting.

[Nobade]

I would love to have a 4 bore.
But I don't think you can hunt with them.
I think the law is max 10 bore for hunting.
But that may not apply to B P guns.
69 or 75 cal would be my choice.
The Pecatonica looks like a good deal.
I will have to call them and see if it can be ordered with Brass hardware and verify if the barrel is just a Cannon muzzle or it is a true Flaired bore at the end.

Who hunts with a blunderbuss? They're for shooting bad guys. Or more realistically just entertaining yourself once in a while.

[richhodg66]

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/traditions-blunderbuss-kit-54-caliber-percussion.html

Sportsman's Guide was selling these a while back, not now. I was kicking myself for not getting one. Are these rifled?

[LAGS]

The Traditions Blunderbuss is not Rifled.
It is a .54 smoothbore.
I am sure that many years ago , they did some hunting with some Blunderbuss firearms.
I think a rabbit or Squirrel hunt would be fun and a challenge with this type of Antique Style firearm.
Let's keep the past alive , and not just memories hanging on a wall.

[poppy42]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about my mother-in-law!

[indian joe]

This is the one to go with for a blunderbuss.

I've considered building one for years, but know darned well I would probably never fire it a hundred times in my life.

sooooo ? fifty times would still be fun.:-D....................................

[richhodg66]

The Traditions Blunderbuss is not Rifled.
It is a .54 smoothbore.
I am sure that many years ago , they did some hunting with some Blunderbuss firearms.
I think a rabbit or Squirrel hunt would be fun and a challenge with this type of Antique Style firearm.
Let's keep the past alive , and not just memories hanging on a wall.

So, .54 would be roughly a 28 gauge?

[toot]

they don't lay flat against the wall because of the flare at the muzzle.

[arcticap]

So, .54 would be roughly a 28 gauge?

Yes. A 28 ga. measures .550, and they can basically be loaded with as much shot as an average 12 gauge.
I've loaded 1.25 ounces of shot in a 28 ga. muzzle loader.

Deer Creek Products still has the Traditions kits in stock. --->>> http://www.deercreekproducts.net/store/p1760/KR500.html

[LAGS]

The muzzle on Most of them isn't Flaired so much that it really makes a difference.
But there are a few that look like a trumpet on the end.
I will have to watch some old Bugs Bunny Cartoons and see how Elmer Fudd hung up his Blunderbuss when he wasn't hunting Pesky Wabbits

[waksupi]

Middlesex village trading company.

Absolutely not, those are wallhangers.

[Gunslinger1911]

I will be following this.
I too want one.
Because, .............. just because.270538

[LAGS]

Thank you Gunslinger.
You gave me another great idea.
I can dig out my coal forge and add an axe blade or bayonet to whatever I build.

[Gunslinger1911]

I have GOT to find a barrel like the pic !!!!
I figure I can buy the rest from somewhere like Track of the Wolf.
And hit a Ren Fest blacksmith for the ax.
Oh ya, and percussion, I've played with flint - no joy there. haha

[LAGS]

If it was a firearm that I shot every week and hunted with on a regular basis , I too would pick a Percussion Lock.
But this one is looking to be more Traditional , and let me fool with the issues our founding fathers had to deal with.

[LAGS]

Well the latest update on my selection.
I think I will be going with the Pecatonica Blunderbuss Kit.
I seems like the best deal and I can select the parts I want to use.
The barrel is a Flaired Bore , they offer Maple stocks in several grades , and they do carry the brass hardware that I like.
Now what they sell is not really what you call a "Kit".
It is a selection of Parts that you have to Fit together yourself.
They do stock inletting on the barrel and lock for a small fee.

[RU shooter]

A lock with a brass plate would add another touch of "bling" to it polished up all bright and shiny :)

[LAGS]

I am still debating the Brass Trim.
I was thinking about using the lighter wood with the Fractural burning to dress it up.
With that look , the metal being Browned would give a nice overall contrast.
I will see if one of my friends can post a picture of a TC stock that I fracturally burned for him.
My computer won't let me post pictures.

[Theditchman]

Fractal Burned stock on a Thompson Center Hawken by LAGGS

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[RU shooter]

Now THAT is a unique look ! Would like to hear how it's accomplished

[rfd]

reread and take to heart everything nobade posted on this thread.

the blunderbuss was designed to be a coachman's defense gun loaded with buckshot, where the hugely funnelled barrel made for a bit easier reloading on a bouncing coach. it serves absolutely no practical purpose these dayze other than owning one for its history ... and "beauty". ;)

[LAGS]

The Lichtenberg wood burning is done with 10,000 volts and a conductive solution applied to the wood.
I made the transformer myself from an Oil Burner Heater ignighter transformer.
Many people use a Microwave transformer that is only 2000 volts , but a much higher and Dangerous Amperage.
Look it up on the Net.
It is very creative and a way to decorate any bare wood .
Next thing I want to try is , Inlaying the fractures with gold or silver.
I have done some with colored Epoxy infill and it comes out nice.
The burning does stand out more on a lighter colored wood.
But as you can see , the fractures show up on Walnut well , and give a nice accent to the wood without Jumping out at you.
It is also a nice way to dress up an older beat up stock.

[arcticap]

Absolutely not, those are wallhangers.

There's some folks on the MLF who bought them in the past without complaints.
The posts may go back 10 years or more but they were giving them high praise.
I specifically searched for doglock blunderbuss posts.
MVTC used to be a reputable outfit and it was posted that their locks were good sparkers.
Most buyers realized that replacement parts for them may not be available.
That's not the same as being a wall hanger.
Some MVTC guns have been sold by Dixon's.

[LAGS]

I have seen some India guns that look good and function reasonably well.
Some even looked safe to fire with Reasonable loads.
But they don't look very durable if you intended to shoot them every week.
And if something goes wrong like the Frizzen wears out , or the hammer bends , you can't find a drop in part to fix it , even from the supplier.
That doesn't work for those of you that don't have the skills to fix things yourself.
If you have the skills , IMO the Kits are a better buy.
The parts are better , and the whole gun will hold its value better since it uses Known Parts.
Also from what I have seen , If you buy an India Rifle , from some unknown manufacture, ( it doesn't matter much who the Supplier is ) the Value Drops to 1/4 the price once you fire it.
At least with a Known Kit , it has a chance of retaining most of its value because of known quality of the parts.

[waksupi]

There's some folks on the MLF who bought them in the past without complaints.
The posts may go back 10 years or more but they were giving them high praise.
I specifically searched for doglock blunderbuss posts.
MVTC used to be a reputable outfit and it was posted that their locks were good sparkers.
Most buyers realized that replacement parts for them may not be available.
That's not the same as being a wall hanger.
Some MVTC guns have been sold by Dixon's.

I sent one back the same day of delivery, tagged "Unsafe to shoot".

[LAGS]

What was the issue that you saw that made it Unsafe To Shoot ?
The less experienced shooters need to know what they need to look for .
And I have heard that some suppliers are reluctant to give a refund if you say it is unsafe to shoot.
Mainly because they sell them as Non Firing Replicas.
They void all warranties if you modify it at all , especially to fire live loads

[Plastikosmd]

I bench shoot mine for fun w an adapted grenade sight on it for 100 yards. 12g slugs
https://i.postimg.cc/sfWjdGdy/CF3-EB213-CEDC-4-B84-A46-B-8743895253-F0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/vDQF5BZS)

It is a hoot

[LAGS]

What type is that one , and where did you get it.
Was it one of the Un Drilled India imports ?
Fun is the main reason I want to buy a Blunderbuss.
I don't look good in a three cornered hat and an eye patch.

[Plastikosmd]

Rayle barrel I believe, the builder”s name escapes me
Will look in my records

[richhodg66]

I bench shoot mine for fun w an adapted grenade sight on it for 100 yards. 12g slugs
https://i.postimg.cc/sfWjdGdy/CF3-EB213-CEDC-4-B84-A46-B-8743895253-F0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/vDQF5BZS)

It is a hoot

I bet that gets a lot of attention and conversations at the range.

[toot]

did you forget that they were and are still a shot gun? some people still hunt with them. don't generalize. there are other opinions out there.

[toot]

that is a very nice piece my friend! and I agree it is a head turner at the range!!

[waksupi]

What was the issue that you saw that made it Unsafe To Shoot ?
The less experienced shooters need to know what they need to look for .
And I have heard that some suppliers are reluctant to give a refund if you say it is unsafe to shoot.
Mainly because they sell them as Non Firing Replicas.
They void all warranties if you modify it at all , especially to fire live loads

The breech plugs only had around 1/4" thread engagement. No thanks!

[arcticap]

The Traditions Blunderbuss also comes as a flintlock that's in stock at muzzle-loader.com. --->>> https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/traditions-flintlock-blunderbuss-kit-54-caliber-kr510.html
When I held one of these I noticed that the stock had a very thick wrist, much thicker than a half stock rifle.
I guess that they let the builder decide how thick that they want it to be.

Here's some photos of a Blunderbuss that moharrow built in 2010.
It has a Colrain barrel that looks the same as the Pecatonica kit, except he bought the barrel from TVA.
The furniture came from TOW, and the doglock castings came from EJ Blackley and Son. --->>> https://www.blackleyandson.com/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?page=search&SS=blunderbuss+&PR=-1&TB=O&ACTION=Go%21

His range report indicated that he loaded home cast .765 balls, and tried buck & ball loads.

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[LAGS]

Thanks Waksupi.
That is also one thing that most people would not check or have the ability to check.
That is a good reason to avoid guns made by less than Quality Controlled manufactures.

[arcticap]

Waksupi did the right thing to check the breechplug and to send it back.
I hope that he got his money back.
I was looking for a photo of an India breech plug of recent manufacture but didn't find one.
However a guy named Leadball Loader posted this about his India breech plugs in Jan., 2020:

"I have removed the breech plugs on three of my India muskets and found them to be well threaded.
I made the grooved area where the flash vent came through slightly deeper for access to the main charge.
These muskets were purchased through Military Heritage in Canada.
A barrel vice was used and I made a witness mark to return to." --->>> https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/breech-plug-on-india-made-barrel.118623/

[arcticap]

The Traditions Blunderbuss also comes as a flintlock that's in stock at muzzle-loader.com. --->>> https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/traditions-flintlock-blunderbuss-kit-54-caliber-kr510.html
When I held one of these I noticed that the stock had a very thick wrist, much thicker than a half stock rifle.
I guess that they let the builder decide how thick that they want it to be.


It occurred to me that if a person didn't like the amount of flare at the end of a Traditions Blunderbuss barrel that they could remove the amount that they didn't like.
That part of the barrel is thin enough to easily cut shorter, just like if someone didn't like the shape of the wrist.

[LAGS]

The thought of shortening the Flair on the barrel of a Traditions to make it look more to my taste.
But there are other things I mentioned like the shape of the front of the stock and the stock not going all the way out to the end of the barrel.
Plus no way to install a Ramrod because of the barrel mounting screw
I could put a lot of time and work into a Traditions Blunderbuss.
But IMO.
My time and work would be better spent on a gun that is closer to the style I want.

[LAGS]

Place my order for my Blunderbuss this morning.
I decided to go with the Kit from Pecatonica River.
It is a .75 cal 20" barrel on a Walnut Stock with Brass Hardware.
They said it will probably ship within two weeks

[LAGS]

BTW.
When I was talking with Pecatonica , they said they just received some 4 bore Blunderbuss barrels made by Rice.
They are offering them on another kit also.
They said the muzzle is like 2" diameter.

[missionary5155]

I would get the 4 Bore ! Bigger is always better
Years back we came across a blunderbuss of dubious materials but with a nice usable stock. Sold off the barrel and cheap flintlock. Bought an L&R flintlock that was just a touch larger than the previous lock. Found a used barrel of 1 inch bore with an OK muzzle taper to flair and set to putting it together.
It is alot of fun ! Everyone who sees it wants to shoot it.
We shoot mostly blank charges of 2F Goex during holidays but off and on load up 1 1/4 ounce loads of .20 swan shot or #4 shot and line up a bunch of cans at 25 yards and see who wins that days bragging rights. Balloons stapled to a plywood chunk 4 feet square is far more enlightening.

[LAGS]

If I have as much fun with the 75 cal as everybody tells me I will , then I may build a Shorter 4 bore model Blunderbuss.
The kit will be coming in sooner than I thought it would.
So I better get some of these other rifles done so I have time to concentrate on the new build.
Without being able to see the kit yet , I have no idea how long it will take me to build it.
After all , this is not one of those screw together kits.

[Gunslinger1911]

You people are the worst enablers EVER !
Pecatonica is showing this for $215.
I like it !270802

A little more "bell" would be better, But this has possibility's.

[LAGS]

That is the barrel that is going to be on my kit.
I like it because it has a Cannon Style Muzzle but the bore is also Flaired.
The flair on the bore does not Spread the shot more than a straight bore does.
The flair just helps in loading.

With the Flaired bore , I can load it faster and be like a Virtual Machine Gun. LOL

[Gunslinger1911]

LAGS, now I just have to find a stock that looks good cut back and find a blacksmith to make the blade.

[LAGS]

Did you check out Petatonicas stocks ?
Or do you have a stock that you want to cut back.
Most Full Stocks will be a little thin up front to fit very good.
But you can take a Half Stock.
Cut it off and then add a wider price of wood to the front to extend it back out.
But then again , the barrel not being that Flaired out , it might look good on a Half Stock.

[LAGS]

I wanted a steel barrel.
But I like the look of a Brass Barrel.
I wonder how the barrel would look if it was Cerokoted in a Gold or Brass color.
Or just get the barrel Brass Plated.

[shooting on a shoestring]

No dog in this fight for me.
But I have seen a few in person at Collector’s Firearms in Houston.
Just checked their website and I see they currently have 7 originals in stock.
Prices range $850 to $5,500.
Interesting to look at, read about.

[toot]

just point and shoot.

[LAGS]

Spray and pray is actually a better term.
But that is reserved for people with AR's and Uzi's

[LAGS]

I just saw a video on a blunderbuss contest they had at Ben Avery Shooting Range that is not that far from me.
It was back in 2012 , but once I get my kit put together , I will look into if they have another scheduled.
Sounds like a good way to have some fun

[RU shooter]

I wanted a steel barrel.
But I like the look of a Brass Barrel.
I wonder how the barrel would look if it was Cerokoted in a Gold or Brass color.
Or just get the barrel Brass Plated.
Go with the brass plating , the Cero will look good from a distance but up close to you it's gonna look like gold paint . You could add gold flake to it to really get it to dazzle in the sun ! Lol

[LAGS]

Hmmm.
Bronze Plating.
More durable than Brass , and will look old like an original barrel.
Maybe I can find someone to do some engraving on the barrel before getting it plated.

[Nobade]

Why not just get a bronze barrel? No corrosion problems and stronger than 12L14 steel by far.

[LAGS]

A Bronze barrel would be nice.
Maybe on my next build.
Which I think will be a Shorter bigger bore Blunderbuss , possibly a pistol format.

[Gunslinger1911]

BTW.
When I was talking with Pecatonica , they said they just received some 4 bore Blunderbuss barrels made by Rice.
They are offering them on another kit also.
They said the muzzle is like 2" diameter.

LAGS, did they say if they were going to put the 4 bore up on the site ? Or I'm not looking hard enough - haha

I'm right on the edge of ordering the kit you did - but a 4 bore !!!!! HOORAH

[LAGS]

Call Pecatonica
They are VERY helpfull.
I think he said the 4 bore kit was like $1100.00
That is not out of my price range , but it just wasn't what I am looking for right now for THIS build.
Keep us posted if you order one of their kits.

[Gunslinger1911]

Will do, thanks.
The "kit" you are getting is right there for me.
But, a 4 bore !!!!!
HOOOO BOY !

I guess I haven't outgrown the "bigger is better", much the chagrin of my wrist and shoulder (500 Smith and 50 Beowulf AR).

I'll give them a holler Monday

I still gotta find a blacksmith for the 'hawk.

[arcticap]

Gordon owns the CVA .69 Blunderbuss below with a brass barrel that looks very similar to the Traditions.
Does you think that the CVA's flared muzzle is also too large?
The muzzle flare of the kit barrels look much smaller than some of the antique guns [and India guns] which would help with aiming rather than loading such as when in battle and on the move.

271448

This is Gordon's sawed off 10 gauge Pedersoli double shotgun which is similar to the current Pedersoli 12 ga. percussion coach gun with 20 inch barrels.
The 10 ga. provides more firepower than the Blunderbuss.

271451

Pedersoli also makes the 20 gauge Baker Cavalry double shotgun with 11.25" inch barrels.
It's basically their Howdah pistol with a stock & single trigger, and was reported to sometimes fire both barrels at the same time if both hammers are cocked.

271452
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/9030/category/316/category_chain/312,313,316/product_name/PS3445+PEDERSOLI+BAKER+CAVALRY+SHOTGUN

[LAGS]

I like the CVA Blunderbuss.
The barrel is Flaired nicely.
But the difference between it and the Traditions is.
The CVA has some detail to the end of the barrel.
It is sculped with the rings and looks a lot less like a Trumpet.
That is one reason I selected the Pecatonica over others I saw.
Others had just a plain Flaired barrel.

[LAGS]

I did receive my kit from Pecatonica today.
I am happy.
The only thing I don't like is.
When I called to order the kit , I was told that it was a Flaired Bore at the muzzle and a Flaired Cannon Style Muzzle.
The barrel is a Straight .75" bore with no internal flair.
Not that big of an issue to me since the internal flair only helps in the loading not the shot pattern
spread..
But a straight bore may be better for hunting.
I won't have the musket finished by the time Dove and Quail Season is over this year.
But there is always next year.
.75 cal with a round ball would be something I would like to try on Elk , Deer or our Javalina

[LAGS]

Today I started working on the musket on and off part of the day.
I pulled the breech plug and fit the barrel to the stock.
The inletting I had them do is pretty close so far.
Now it is time to inlet the tang and finish the barrel channel.
My wife asked me,
"Are you not going to Glass bed this barrel like you do your other center fire rifles?
You had told me how much more accurate it makes them ."
I told her , I don't think it will help with the accuracy much on a blunderbuss shooting mostly buckshot.

[Nobade]

Might not help accuracy but may help durability depending on your inletting skills.

[LAGS]

Good point Nobade.
My inletting skills a really good.
But I may bed the tang just because this is .75 cal and the stock is going to take a lot of recoil shooting round balls.
The tang inletting that they did on the stock is Good.
But it doesn't make full contact that I prefer.
I told my wife.
" On this musket , If I want better Accuracy , I better install some kind of sights on it."

[Prairie Cowboy]

Who hunts with a blunderbuss? They're for shooting bad guys. Or more realistically just entertaining yourself once in a while.

Arhh Matey! Pirates be needing them.

[LAGS]

Just for an update on my build.
I have been busy with other projects but did manage to get the barrel all inletted as well as the lock and trigger.
It didn't require that much trimming , but did take a little time.
I also was able to drill the holes for the Lock Mounting Screws and the Trigger mounting screw.
This is not one of those "Screwdriver Kits " so there is work that requires a higher skill level.
Like everything has to be Located , Drilled and Tapped.
This is not my first Rodeo building a rifle from scratch.
But , every Rodeo is different.