rodwha
10-30-2020, 11:25 AM
Working with a 13/16” barrel (thinking along the lines of a drop-in barrel for a Crockett rifle) I’ve thought it would be cool to have a handy carbine that shoots my revolver bullets paper patched or something (I’ve always liked the idea of compatible ammo). My thoughts being a 215-255, and maybe even my short 285 grn bullet pushed by even just 40 grns of an energetic 3F would be akin to a Dragoon with a conical and longer barrel, but who wouldn’t even like 50? I don’t think I’d want anymore than 60 grns and that 285 grn bullet from what would no doubt be a light rifle.
I’m working on a modified design to work as a universal bullet for both my Pietta NMA and ROA. I’ve estimated the new projectile to be .497” OAL, though I have a new powder measure with scratched in 5 grn gradients allowing me to easily eyeball 2.5 grns. Here’s a pic of another bullet I created for hogs and my ROA that I scrapped when I thought we were moving to VA and having bears on the menu, the 285 grn version.
https://i.postimg.cc/26Y3mVdT/567-D3224-1-E7-B-47-BC-A751-18-C0-C541088-C.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gwMGHcT6)
And here’s my 285 grn version I don’t have a need for at the moment, short for such a heavy bullet:
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-285C-D.png
I’d want this barrel to work great with my own universal revolver design and common 250-255 grn bullets, which should allow my heavy bullet. And maybe I’d like the ability to shoot commercial 300 grn bullets if need be. Looking through my Lyman Handbook (2nd) I see weights on up to 325 grns were used in a 1:48” twist with powder charges from as low as 40. But I also see a 20” carbine shooting .45 Colt with a 250 grn bullet and 35 grns using a 1:26” twist. Granted the powder charge starts at 70, the .45-70 shows a 292 grn bullet in a 30” barrel using a 1:18” twist. And I’ve heard of gallery loads, but then those shoots are so close it wouldn’t matter too much I wouldn’t think. We see Ruger twists their .45 Colt at 1:16” and the .454 Cas at 1:24”, yet the .44 Mag at 1:20”. Looking at Lyman’s velocities in a 28” barrel it looks like for the most part I’d within .44 Mag velocities so I’m wondering if 1:20” wouldn’t be just about ideal.
I’m thinking 24” to make it very handy or up to 28” to take advantage of the sight radius and slight boost, not to mention additional weight. Topped with peep sights since 50-75 yds is about all I can do with my glasses on and these crappy fiber optic sights. But I want to zero at 100 and shoot out to 125 yds I guess.
And that brings me to my love of the wide meplat for my handgun bullets. I’ve read a bit on the development of the wide meplat used in the .45-70 and it seemed to suggest that any wider of a meplat than 78% opened up the chances for them to not track straight in the animal. I’ve also heard that wide meplat bullets have a very hard time going from super sonic to sub sonic. However there are modern cast bullets that are wider than 78% and may or may not be dealing with the sound barrier that don’t seem to see these things enough to make a deal out of it. LBT and BearTooth make huge meplat bullets. Running estimated BCs and using Lyman’s data to get a rough idea I see that if my new bullet comes out on the lighter side at 215 grns and has a poor BC of 0.150 (Lee’s 200 RF is 0.140) it will hit the sonic barrier (estimated at 1150 FPS) as soon as about 50 yds with a 40 grn charge, 85 yds with 50, and just barely about make it to 125 yds with 60. This rounding up their velocity using Pyrodex P to the nearest 25 FPS despite my bullets weighing an average of about 15 grns more since I’d be using a more energetic powder. I used Lee’s BC values, and with their 255 grn bullet at a questionably high BC value of 0.210, it does well enough with any of those powder charges. Same with Lee’s 300 grn version.
So the lighter bullet doesn’t seem like it would do all that well out to 100+ yds unless the velocity starts off around that speed or is pushed by a heavier charge, assuming my design has a poor BC, which I figure most any WFN would. But if a >78% meplat doesn’t have stability issues there’s nothing to be concerned with, not to mention I could further modify my design to reduce it from 83%.
I don’t know much at all about paper patching or bare bullets used, though I read you’ll want them sized. Mine will have a reduced diameter of 0.454”, but my current bullets drop at 0.456”. I’m guessing I’d have 0.452” or 0.454” as far as caliber options. So what size(s) dies would I want? For a full bore bullet I believe you want it 0.001” under bore, no?
And then we have groove depth. Nothing but bullets and maybe I’d try sabots (which could effect the caliber choice) so shallow grooves. I’m not too keen on shallow groove depth or type of grooving (button and whatever options there are). I’d venture to guess one wouldn’t want them too shallow as they’d fill up with fouling too soon. Too deep and an oversized wad/card is necessary. Is that necessary anyway? Seems I typically have seen muzzleloaders and bullets using an overpowder card of some sort.
And then there’s lube... I’ve been using Gatofeo’s #1 for my felt wads, revolver bullets, and Lee REALs and really like it. Were I to use my revolver bullets bare they’d need a lot of help here as I use what’s apparently pretty close to just enough as all day range days never showed a fouling issue. So a lubed felt wad and/or lube cookie. But what of paper patched bullets? I can’t say I’ve read of felt wads used per se.
This got me thinking about my lead. I’ve cast everything with pure lead, but have contemplated 2% tin to help with potential fill issues.
I’m not all that savvy as to lead hardness needed for X velocity, nor do I know what to expect from soft lead at very high striking velocities. My universal bullet couldn’t be made too hard, but My Ruger version could be a bit harder I suppose, though I’d prefer not to concern myself with keeping various alloys around.
So at what velocity will say 7-8 BHN (about what 2% tin is, no?) begin to strip the rifling at?
I’ve seen that soft lead traveling very fast still seems to hold together pretty well. Talking a sphere here doing maybe 1600 FPS at the animal, and the weight retention tends to be quite high. I’d venture to guess it’s a much different animal than an elongated projectile. So do we know of an upper velocity limit to soft lead bullets and hitting critters? And does heavier bone, maybe the difference between whitetail and hogs, change things significantly?
I’m working on a modified design to work as a universal bullet for both my Pietta NMA and ROA. I’ve estimated the new projectile to be .497” OAL, though I have a new powder measure with scratched in 5 grn gradients allowing me to easily eyeball 2.5 grns. Here’s a pic of another bullet I created for hogs and my ROA that I scrapped when I thought we were moving to VA and having bears on the menu, the 285 grn version.
https://i.postimg.cc/26Y3mVdT/567-D3224-1-E7-B-47-BC-A751-18-C0-C541088-C.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gwMGHcT6)
And here’s my 285 grn version I don’t have a need for at the moment, short for such a heavy bullet:
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-285C-D.png
I’d want this barrel to work great with my own universal revolver design and common 250-255 grn bullets, which should allow my heavy bullet. And maybe I’d like the ability to shoot commercial 300 grn bullets if need be. Looking through my Lyman Handbook (2nd) I see weights on up to 325 grns were used in a 1:48” twist with powder charges from as low as 40. But I also see a 20” carbine shooting .45 Colt with a 250 grn bullet and 35 grns using a 1:26” twist. Granted the powder charge starts at 70, the .45-70 shows a 292 grn bullet in a 30” barrel using a 1:18” twist. And I’ve heard of gallery loads, but then those shoots are so close it wouldn’t matter too much I wouldn’t think. We see Ruger twists their .45 Colt at 1:16” and the .454 Cas at 1:24”, yet the .44 Mag at 1:20”. Looking at Lyman’s velocities in a 28” barrel it looks like for the most part I’d within .44 Mag velocities so I’m wondering if 1:20” wouldn’t be just about ideal.
I’m thinking 24” to make it very handy or up to 28” to take advantage of the sight radius and slight boost, not to mention additional weight. Topped with peep sights since 50-75 yds is about all I can do with my glasses on and these crappy fiber optic sights. But I want to zero at 100 and shoot out to 125 yds I guess.
And that brings me to my love of the wide meplat for my handgun bullets. I’ve read a bit on the development of the wide meplat used in the .45-70 and it seemed to suggest that any wider of a meplat than 78% opened up the chances for them to not track straight in the animal. I’ve also heard that wide meplat bullets have a very hard time going from super sonic to sub sonic. However there are modern cast bullets that are wider than 78% and may or may not be dealing with the sound barrier that don’t seem to see these things enough to make a deal out of it. LBT and BearTooth make huge meplat bullets. Running estimated BCs and using Lyman’s data to get a rough idea I see that if my new bullet comes out on the lighter side at 215 grns and has a poor BC of 0.150 (Lee’s 200 RF is 0.140) it will hit the sonic barrier (estimated at 1150 FPS) as soon as about 50 yds with a 40 grn charge, 85 yds with 50, and just barely about make it to 125 yds with 60. This rounding up their velocity using Pyrodex P to the nearest 25 FPS despite my bullets weighing an average of about 15 grns more since I’d be using a more energetic powder. I used Lee’s BC values, and with their 255 grn bullet at a questionably high BC value of 0.210, it does well enough with any of those powder charges. Same with Lee’s 300 grn version.
So the lighter bullet doesn’t seem like it would do all that well out to 100+ yds unless the velocity starts off around that speed or is pushed by a heavier charge, assuming my design has a poor BC, which I figure most any WFN would. But if a >78% meplat doesn’t have stability issues there’s nothing to be concerned with, not to mention I could further modify my design to reduce it from 83%.
I don’t know much at all about paper patching or bare bullets used, though I read you’ll want them sized. Mine will have a reduced diameter of 0.454”, but my current bullets drop at 0.456”. I’m guessing I’d have 0.452” or 0.454” as far as caliber options. So what size(s) dies would I want? For a full bore bullet I believe you want it 0.001” under bore, no?
And then we have groove depth. Nothing but bullets and maybe I’d try sabots (which could effect the caliber choice) so shallow grooves. I’m not too keen on shallow groove depth or type of grooving (button and whatever options there are). I’d venture to guess one wouldn’t want them too shallow as they’d fill up with fouling too soon. Too deep and an oversized wad/card is necessary. Is that necessary anyway? Seems I typically have seen muzzleloaders and bullets using an overpowder card of some sort.
And then there’s lube... I’ve been using Gatofeo’s #1 for my felt wads, revolver bullets, and Lee REALs and really like it. Were I to use my revolver bullets bare they’d need a lot of help here as I use what’s apparently pretty close to just enough as all day range days never showed a fouling issue. So a lubed felt wad and/or lube cookie. But what of paper patched bullets? I can’t say I’ve read of felt wads used per se.
This got me thinking about my lead. I’ve cast everything with pure lead, but have contemplated 2% tin to help with potential fill issues.
I’m not all that savvy as to lead hardness needed for X velocity, nor do I know what to expect from soft lead at very high striking velocities. My universal bullet couldn’t be made too hard, but My Ruger version could be a bit harder I suppose, though I’d prefer not to concern myself with keeping various alloys around.
So at what velocity will say 7-8 BHN (about what 2% tin is, no?) begin to strip the rifling at?
I’ve seen that soft lead traveling very fast still seems to hold together pretty well. Talking a sphere here doing maybe 1600 FPS at the animal, and the weight retention tends to be quite high. I’d venture to guess it’s a much different animal than an elongated projectile. So do we know of an upper velocity limit to soft lead bullets and hitting critters? And does heavier bone, maybe the difference between whitetail and hogs, change things significantly?