Cimarron McNelly Carbine

[mongo40]

Does anyone on here have one of these, kind of like it, watched a youtube video where the owner of Cimarron showed the original he owns and the background on them, and they had the carbine copied from the original. Wondering if anyone has handled one. I've got a couple of Cimarron pistols and they both are really nice as everything I've seen come from them.
Chris W.

[samari46]

You tube has a couple of videos on the McNelly or McNally sharps carbine. Type in the name of the carbine and should come up. Frank

[David LaPell]

I've got one, love it in .50-70.

https://i.imgur.com/rctDViq.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/X0yLg1q.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/L8HYgXY.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/ER6bV29.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/PPjFepp.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/nAupAo8.jpg?1

[txbirdman]

Recently read a book on this “special” company of Texas Rangers. The Sharps carbines were supplied by a hardware store owner in Corpus Christi. He tried to get McNelly to take ‘73 Winchester’s instead. He told McNelly the Winchester’s would be better against bandits if his men should miss their 1st shot. McNelly replied “I don’t want men that miss”.

[Drydock]

These are made by Chiappa, and I think are the best thing Chiappa puts out, especially in .50-70. Have one, and it is excellent. Aside from that, if you want an M1867/68 Sharps conversion carbine in .50-70, they are literally the only game in town.

[mongo40]

David, does it have all the markings like the originals, the T S on top of the barrel? It does look really nice, I may just have to pick one up. Yea it seems strange to me if McNally had the option to get Winchesters over a single shot he would have, I wonder what his decision was based on. Just curious thinking on my part.
Chris W.

[txbirdman]

Chris, he was a military man right out of the War Between the States He knew what that round could do. Also the conservation of ammo and controlled fire were important considerations. Just think how long the US military stuck with the 1974 Springfield after repeaters we’re available. McNelly told his rangers to only shoot what was right in front of them. His method were very effective in that with 20 something rangers he was able to rid the Nueces Strip of 3,000 bandits only losing 1 man.

[mongo40]

Well since they cancelled Tulsa's Wannamacher gun show last weekend, I went ahead and ordered me a McNelly Carbine in 45-70 from my LGS. They said it would be up to two weeks coming in for what ever reason, was hoping it got here by rifle season and still might. I'm off next week for Thanksgiving break, would be nice to get it then as I'd have plenty of time to shoot it and get some hunting in with it. I've plenty of deer rifles to play with so thats not an issue. Hate waiting on the mail!!!!
Chris W.

[eastbank]

mcnelly went to revolvers pretty quick, i think there was more to it than wanting his men not to miss. maybe he didn,t trust the new lever actions in heavy field use yet. they went to lever actions later on in a big way.

[Nobade]

You guys are enablers! After seeing this thread I had to go and put a bid on one of these on Gunbroker. It was a used 50-70, and ended up going for more than a new one. Sometimes getting outbid is a relief, but I'd still like to have one.

[mongo40]

Well my LGS called me today and my Carbine was in so picked it up after work. I got the 45-70 McNelly and I'm pleased so far, fit and finish are great but there are a couple of things I had to address. First was a good cleaning, got a lot of black out of the barrel not sure what all that was from, residue from the bluing maybe, I don't know. Also just lubing up the Lock, I pulled it and lubed good with Remoil, and cleaning any packing grease but didn't have anything on it, was completely dry so glad I checked that, I noticed when I pulled the lock that the stock is just bare wood under all the fittings, no stain or sealer on it, so checked the forearm to and was the same. I like to make sure all the wood that's not exposed as Tung Oil or something to seal it so it won't soak up any moisture or cleaning oil so I'll take care of that after I go shoot it this weekend and give it a good cleaning.
Now the big question for you guys that have these, the block to me doesn't sit high enough in the reciever when closed and my only experince is with 74s (two previous Italians and my current Shiloh). On the Carbine the hammer strikes the firing pin pusher with just the very back edge of the hammer face, I see the potential for this to wear very fast since its striking such a small part of the hammer face and pusher, or is this how the older styled sharps looked and worked??? I'm attaching some pics so you can see what I'm talking about. I'm just basing this off how my 1874 Armi Sharps operated and my Shiloh, both of which the full face of the hammer strikes a large flat spot on the firing pin pusher, plus on the 74s the hammer geometry is different than on the converted carbines. Looks to me if the block came up a little higher in the reciever then more of the pusher could be struck by the hammer or if the pusher was a little taller itself. Is this how all the Carbines are? Appreciate any feedback from those that have these. Thanks
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[ndnchf]

Not a very good photo, but this is an original conversion carbine I used to have. The block is clearly higher than yours.

[mongo40]

yes it is, thats how I would expect it to look where the hammer is clearly making good contact with the firing pin pusher, Thanks.

[txbirdman]

Mike Harvey ( the owner of Cimarron Arms) has a YouTube video featuring his original McNelly carbine. Close ups of the gun is featured in the video. Might be interesting for you to look at that rifle.

[ndnchf]

Something else to look for is to see if the firing pin is centered in the chamber with the block in that low position. If it is low, it may just need a longer link. But if it is centered, then there is a bigger oriblem.

[Drydock]

This is normal. Chiappa uses a shorter 1874 style firing pin striker, not the taller 1868 conversion striker. THey then extend the nose of the percussion hammer to make contact. It looks awkward, but works fine. It is the only thing I really do not like about the carbine. Better would have been a proper striker and hammer, but they took this short cut. I keep hoping someday they'll update to the proper parts.

It's odd that it's the reverse of the original conversions, which installed the block with the taller striker, then shortened the percussion hammer to accommodate. In both cases it was done to clear the percussion lockplate. This would not be needed on the later 1869/74s, which got a lower, more streamlined hammer, in turn allowing a lower, shorter firing pin striker.

[mongo40]

txbirdman, I've viewed that video a dozen times before I ever made the purchase but thanks.
Chris

[mongo40]

Well I went out and shot it, at first was a little worried as the firing pin was not centered and striking the primer, it wouldn't fire, unlike the other sharps I have the linkage on the lever to block is some kind of eyebolt that is screwed together in the middle allowing the lever to be spun around giving different positions for the block in the reciever. So kept pulling it out turning it in and trying again till I had the firing pin centered and it would fire! Another design I could do without, love to hear the reasoning for that one! Anyway once I had that figured out I put about 10 Rds of Hornady Leverlution through it and it shot fine. Then I tried my reloads that I had for my 1895 Marlin, they wouldn't chamber. Liked about a 1/16th" to fully seat, so gave up and came home. Checked some of my brass without a bullet and it would chamber fine but anything I had reloaded was a "No Go" at this station, got to checking and it was the bullet hitting the lands and not letting it seat, I don't have this problem in my Marlin. I pulled some bullets and reseated them to where it would chamber and seems to work ok but I guess I'll save those tapered flat nosed 405grs for my marlin only. The Carbine seems to like a very rounded nosed bullet anything else must be seated a little deeper in the brass to work. I'm wondering is some kind of tapered reamer could fix this as it seems to go from straight chamber to tight rifling, maybe this is normal I don't know but my other 74 Armi Sharps chambered all this ammo just fine.

[missionary5155]

You could consider resizing the nose to fit.
Contenders can be a real pain with throat issues. So we resize or throat ream.

[KCSO]

Years ago my buddy had an original in excellent shape and we shot it with loads from Dixie Brass and black powder. The first 5 or 6 shots were just fine and a hoot to shoot but by the time you f=finished a 20 round match your shoulder really felt it. I got a repro in 45-70 and loaded it with carbine loads and it wasn't bad at all. Nowdays my eyes wont focus on the carbine sights at all and I have a fiber Optic on the front of my sharps rifle and may have to go to a scope.

[mongo40]

Drydock, I'm tempted to order one of the longer pushers from one of their other sharps models and see if it wouldn't fit. Not an expensive experiment and would know real quick it was going to work or not.

[Drydock]

That's the problem, no one is making the taller pusher, they all use the short one. I can get a proper hammer, but not the striker, and you have to have both. I think IAB might have used one 30 years ago, but those are long gone, and they were the old one piece large pin style as well. I wish someone would make an aftermarket striker+hammer package, I'd buy one yesterday. It annoys me, Chiappa is SO damn close to getting it all right.

[Drydock]

Also, military pattern chambers have NO throat, the rifling starts right at the end of the chamber. That's the way the Armory liked it, and why the government pattern bullets have tapered or undersized noses. I suspect it was easier and cheaper to cut, always a consideration for the 19th century US Army.

[mongo40]

I do have a government pattern mold so I guess I'll just use those in the carbine.

[Drydock]

Frankly, in the carbine the Government 450 grain bullet is the flat best there is. No real need to load anything else. (Lyman 515141 or Lee 515-450) Even in my 30" Shiloh, while I have a heavy long range bullet, for most things I just load that good old 450.

Oof! Of course, YOUR gun is the .45-70. (price is right failure tune . . .)