Smokeless Powder for .45-70

[Aggie_Gunner]

I am new to reloading for the .45-70.

For the .45-70 I am casting a 405 grain hard cast (WW + 97%/3% tin/antimony solde, quenched in water), flat nosed chunk of death.

Any suggestion on smokeless powder to use?

I've heard that fast powders are better for the .45-70, and after perusing my reloading manuals, I am leaning toward Accurate 2015...

I've used this extruded powder before (in .223) and a light to moderate charge should almost fill the case.

Any other suggestions?

TIA,

- AG

Also, I have been looking at the Lee mold for 500gr semi-pointed boolits... any experience with these?

[wiljen]

what velocity are you hoping to achieve?

[August]

I used 2015 in the 45-70 and was unimpressed with the consistency. I felt that I had to load heavier than I cared to shoot with that powder.

4759 is THE powder for the big, ol' cases in my experience. I've also used 5744, and it is consistent. The 5744 doesn't seem to burn completely at low loading densities. The 4759 proved to be consistent and burned completely at the 1300 f.p.s. velocities that are the holy grail, IMHO.

I am going to try to use the 2015 up in one of my black rifles. I won't use it again in the 45-70.

[Aggie_Gunner]

what velocity are you hoping to achieve?

1600 fps or less...

I use ALOT of Varget. I'm thinking of trying this.

- AG

[firemen 164]

sr 4759 works great. i've also used imr 3031, but for 405gr lead loads use 27gr of sr4759 and it will do the trick. i don't have any experience with the lee 500gr boolit, but wasn't impressed with the 450gr.( i could never get very accurate loads no matter what i tried) the lee 400gr seems to work fine thou.

[Kraschenbirn]

I've experimented with AA2015 under the RCBS 45-405-FN with better than average results in my H&R Trapdoor Carbine. Fairly accurate but even the recommended starting loads generated a bit more recoil than I cared to tolerate for punching paper or ringing steel. For under 1600 fps5744 or 4198 might be better selections.

Bill

[chaos]

Imr 4198

[TCLouis]

What gun are you going to shoot this out of?

[dale2242]

I shoot 4198 in my 1884 Trapdoor.---dale

[big boar]

I use the RCBS 45-405FN in my 450 Marlin. (slightly less capacity than the 45-70) I've had very good results with 3031 and H4198 but the best of the best has been using 4759 at close to top charges. Same with the 45-300FN 4759 has been a top performer, again at the upper velocities. For an easy to shoot load with very good accuracy I've used 11-12gr 700X with the 300 gr slug.

[jack19512]

I really like 4198 for the 45/70. I just switched from the 340 gr. boolit to the 405 gr. HB boolit. Here is a pic of a target I shot just the other day. Load was with 405 gr. HB boolit and 27 gr. 4198 and distance was 59 yards. This was 6 shots, I don't know the velocity but will chronograph it next time out. Flier was probably me.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a63/jack19512/1895CB.jpg

[Aggie_Gunner]

What gun are you going to shoot this out of?

CVA Optima Elite Single shot...

[skeet1]

One other powder that should be considered is H322. Good loads can be had from Hodgon's Reloading Data Center on the web at http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp Hope this helps.

Skeet1

[Shooter6br]

I have used Varget H322, 4064 Traio Boss Universal Clays Red Dot 4759. I find Varget and 4759 the best for 1350 t0 1500 fps using 350 g Ranch Dog in my Ruger NO 1

[Jeffery8mm]

4064 work well for me in the 45-70
Jeff

[largom]

49.5 gr. of VARGET and the RCBS 405FN shoots great in two 1895 Marlins. I also load IMR 4198 but find it to be position sensitive.
LARRY

[NHlever]

I used IMR 4198, Unique, and AA 5744, and had good results with all three in appropriate loads. The AA 5744 did leave particles in the barrel, but it didn't seem to affect accuracy, or function.

[wmitty]

Didn't see anyone else mention it... Re 7 works great with RD's 350 gr. Marlin 95.

[gon2shoot]

Another vote for IMR 4198 in the 1300/1600 fps range.
I thought I had a good load working with 3031, but the 4198 load came together much faster. And I'm lazy [smilie=1:

[hunterns]

I use H4198 with my 405 flat base and use RL7 with my 350 and 425 gas check bullets. I have used 3031 but found it to leave a lot of unburnt powder. I use Trail Boss for my light loads for fun.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm another vote for Reloader 7

[Jon K]

5744 or 4759.................

Jon

[mooman76]

I don't know about the modern 45-70 but the older ones like softer bullets better. Softer than WW's like 50/50 WW and plummers lead.

[Ken O]

I use 3031 and RL7 for both the PB and GC bullets. FFFG works very good also if you don't mind the cleanup.

[Aggie_Gunner]

49.5 gr. of VARGET and the RCBS 405FN shoots great in two 1895 Marlins. I also load IMR 4198 but find it to be position sensitive.
LARRY

How stout of a load is this? Pushing over 1700 fps?

- AG

[john66]

here just a few with ADI powders 2207 27 gr /dackron/win brass/fed mag primers/CBE330 gould mold/ 25gr 2205/ and 40 gr 2206 no dackron with 2206/
make shure you get the right lube size die457 458 459 all thes loads i have shot 1'' .''1 1/2 groop at 100 meters . make sure the dackron weigh all the same john

[stillhunter]

I like 3031 as it shoots well in my Marlin 1895. The top end is 56gr behind a 300 gr J-word bullett. For light loads I get great results with 4227 and various cast bulletts. Check your LoadBook or Lyman Reloading Manuel and be sure not to use hot loads if you are shooting a trapdoor. Good luck!!.

[Larry Gibson]

How stout of a load is this? Pushing over 1700 fps?

- AG


Here is a target (100-9X) I fired with my Siamese Mauser 45-70. The range is 100 yards and the reticle (Leupold 2.5X w/heavy duplex) covers more of the target than the group does. Load is a commercial 413 gr bullet over 43 gr of 4895 with a 1 gr dacron filler. Velocity is 1572 fps (at 15 ft) with an ES of 42 for the 10 shots.

A milder load is 36 gr 4895 with the same 1 gr dacron filler. Velocity is 1391 fps with an ES of 38 fps for 10 shots. Accuracy is also excellent and the psi(m43) is only 22,400 making it quite safe for use in Trapdoors and other BP rifles.

Larry Gibson

[watkibe]

IMR 4198 and SR 4759 work well for me with bullets from 300 to 400 grains.

[largom]

How stout of a load is this? Pushing over 1700 fps?

- AG My alloy casts at 410gr. and the chrono. Vel. is 1584fps.
One large White-tail deer shot this season and she ran 30in.
Straight down!
LARRY

[MtGun44]

Unique or 2400 will save you a lot of money on powder and
shoot accurately in most rifles.

Bill

[Aggie_Gunner]

My alloy casts at 410gr. and the chrono. Vel. is 1584fps.
One large White-tail deer shot this season and she ran 30in.
Straight down!
LARRY


Are you having any problems with unburnt powder?

[schreibwy]

The powders that I burn the most are 4198 and reloader 7. I have also used 2400, 3031, 4064, Unique, and 5744 to a lesser extent. All the powders had their good loads and their bad loads. I remember once being told 322 would be good in my contender 45-70 and it didn't work it all. So, what I would do is go through this string and see what gets mentioned the most and give it a try. In my rifles I usually start with 4198 or RL 7, and seldom do I have to try anything else.

For blackpowder practice loads with out the mess I use 5744.

With 340 to 350 hunting loads I use reloader 7 and 4198.

For play time and varmints I use Unique and 2400.

For paper patch loads which are pretty hot I use 3031 and 4198.

[charger 1]

1600 fps or less...

I use ALOT of Varget. I'm thinking of trying this.

- AG

Found varget makes much heat. Try RL7. From 36-50 under that slug

[Larry Gibson]

Are you having any problems with unburnt powder?

I woulldn't call it a "problem" as such. There is some left but near as much as with 5744 or 2400 at these low end pressure loads. I can up the load and still stay within TD pressures and the pretty much solves the "problem" of unburned powder. However then the load isn't regulated to my trapdoor M1879 sights. I use 43 gr of 4895 with the dacron filler with this bullet out of my Siamese Mauser. It runs 1575 fps and leaves no unberned powder at all. That is also a very accurate load. Going above 1600 fps with this PB bullet destroys accuracy BTW.

Larry Gibson

[HCL]

Benchmark is what i have gone to, used imr-4198 for a long time but found benchmark much better for the large temp swings we get. It is cleaner than Varget.
Mike

[largom]

Are you having any problems with unburnt powder?

There are a FEW grains of partially burnt powder on a cleaning patch. I checked these under a microscope and they are partially burnt. Does not affect accuracy. I am going to try magnum primers with my next loading, after it warms up a bit.
LARRY

[Slingshot]

I just picked up the lee 500 gr. spire point mold (90577) .459 3 ring to shoot out of my Pedersoli sharps replica. Any suggestions on a target velocity load? I mainly use IMR4198, RL7, IMR3031 for my 45/70.

Curious about fillers, are they really needed?

Thanks for any help,

Slingshot

[waco]

varget is good in my .45-70???
love it in my .22-250, and .308
i also have the rcbs 405 fn
i have a marlin lever gun
what is the starting load...........max????
please help!
would love to use this powder in three rifles instead of two....
ANY info would be much loved by waco......


Waco:drinks:

[Aggie_Gunner]

varget is good in my .45-70???
love it in my .22-250, and .308
i also have the rcbs 405 fn
i have a marlin lever gun
what is the starting load...........max????
please help!
would love to use this powder in three rifles instead of two....
ANY info would be much loved by waco......


Waco:drinks:


I tried several Varget recently with 405gr from LEE moulds in my CVA Optima Elite. I used 48.5 grains over CCI 200's with no crimp. I got excellet accuracy at 50 yards, with velocities in the 1450-1500 fps range. However, there was ALOT of unburnt powder.

Maybe a heavy crimp and magnum primers would fix this... don't know. I have since begun experimenting with Reloader 7.

Hodgdon's online reloading data list full data for the .45-70 and Varget.

- Good Luck!

[missionary5155]

Greetings Aggie Gunner
Before you start popping caps on some great listed loads... SLUG YOUR Chamber area.
My 1884 trapdoor Has a chamber area that measures .462+. If your chamber is FAT also you NEED a FAT bullet for Smokeless. If you try an undersize boolit it is going to skid and lead your bore. So please do that first. I bought a Rapine oversize mold (.464 with 30-1 mix)
If you already have slugged your chamber then you should know to size/cast your slugs .001+ larger. In .45´s I am very happy with boolits .002 Oversize using smokeless.
15 grains Unique will get you about 1200 fps... A load I use in my 84 Trapdoor. My old Lyman (1973) shows 13-16.5 grains with a 405 boolit.
A Great old Caliber in a fine old rifle !
God Bless you.