Shoulder dents in 223 cases

[Steve Steven]

Just got back into reloading, son and grandson are shooting NRA Highpower matches with 223. I just finished resizing 80 cases and had a lot of shoulder oil dents. I am using Bag Balm for lube, applied by wiping on with fingers, a generous amount. I learned early not to lube neck or shoulder, that reduced number of dents but did not eliminate them. I think the lube is migrating up from the case body. The relief hole is in the body of my press, about 1 1/2 threads down, so I cut a relief groove from there to outside the lock ring. no grease showed up yet.

What tips can you give me to stop these dents. I tried less lube and got a stuck case, so I am leery of that.

I guess I should clean out the die (RCBS) and see if that helps.

Thanks for any comments.

Steve

[Winger Ed.]

I've had good luck with my .223's using a clean die and the new generation spray can lubes like Hornady's 'one shot'.

Spraying it from an angle that it goes into the case neck has greatly extended the life of my expander balls too.

[nhyrum]

Either switch to an alcohol/lanolin lube or imperial wax.

It sure sounds like still to much lube/liquid in the die, causing the dimples. Any less and you get stuck cases. To me it just sounds like what you're using isn't cut out for case lube. I know people use all sorts of anything semi slippery. With imperial lube, I usually lightly wipe every 3rd case with just what's on my fingers. With alcohol/lanolin, spray a squirt or two in a gallon bag or tupperware container, and give them a shake. With liquid lubes, you have to wait for the solvent to flash off, which can take a few minutes, so just keep that in mind

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[Minerat]

I use the one shot lube but put 50 or so cases in a zip bag and give them a couple of spritzes and then rub them around to get good coverage. Here is a thread I found some time ago that may give you some Ideas.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?256530-Best-way-to-lube-223-brass-for-sizing

[scattershot]

You don’t need much lube at all. Try decreasing the amount of lube on your fingers, and I’ll bet the dents go away.

[nhyrum]

You don’t need much lube at all. Try decreasing the amount of lube on your fingers, and I’ll bet the dents go away.He mentioned he tried using less lube, and he got a stuck cases.

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[Taterhead]

Too much lube. There is a happy medium between stuck cases and hydraulic dents.

I have tried a few things. I don't trust Hornady One Shot for rifle cases.

My current practice is RCBS case lube and a lube pad. The pad is almost dry so that a very modest amount is applied. Grab a handful, roll them a touch. I don't find it necessary to lube neck interiors for 223.

[Bazoo]

I use Hornady one shot for both 30-30 and 30-06. I also use imperial. I find that a moderate smear on the case body, down from the shoulder about 1/4"-3/8" is the happy spot without dents.

[44magLeo]

Perhaps you have the die adjusted to set the shoulder back a bit too much.
This pushes the shoulder too tight to the die so lube can't flow.
Leo

[Three44s]

Oil dents mean too much lube.

Stuck case means too little lube.

I would say your distribution of the bag balm is lacking.

I use the tub of Lyman Unique wax lube. I get my thumb, index and middle finger treated with a fairly thin amount of the Unique lube and fairly well cover the entire exterior of the case to be FL sized. The exception being the shoulder it self.

Three44s

[Shawlerbrook]

Easy fix.......Imperial Sizing Wax

[Wayne Smith]

I use Bag Balm and have for years. A very light sheen is all that is needed. With clean 30-06 cases I can frequently lube every other case as long as I have been using the die for a while. I have never (knock on wood) stuck a case using it. I do use a medicine bottle full of shot and graphite to lube inside the necks though.

[Land Owner]

You certain that some of those dents were not on the case already from hard extraction by the rifle? In any case, the dents will be removed through fire forming.

As others, I use RCBS case lube (like Brill Cream, a little dab will do ya), and roll about 15 cases at a time between the palms of my hands for uniformity of lube. Drop in a bucket, pick up another 15, etc. Wash hands, then size the lot of them. Handloading is a "full contact" hobby...

[robg]

dont lube the shoulder ,just the sides and every few inside the neck.i find it easier to roll cases on a lube pad.dont forget to trim the cases.

[Steve Steven]

Thanks for all the help, it's appreciated.

Heres my plan of attack:
First, demount, disassemble and clean die, ir has been a long time if ever since it has been done.
2nd Make a riser for my case holder so the die can be mounted higher in the press, so the air vent can be above the lock ring.
3rd get and use some Hornady "One Shot".
4th try less lube again.
5th see what results I get from these ideas.

Thanks again,

Steve

PS I do trim after sizing, and before priming. Using Lee Quick Trim, motorized with China screwdriver.

[jsizemore]

I'd chuck a brush in the drill and at a SLOW speed give the die a good scrubbing. Good bore solvent should help dissolve any deposits. Slick up the inside and you'll need less lube to size those cases. Might need to clean out the vent hole with a piece of wire out of a wire brush. I think you have a good plan of attack. I love that imperial sizing die wax.

[ukrifleman]

dont lube the shoulder ,just the sides and every few inside the neck.i find it easier to roll cases on a lube pad.dont forget to trim the cases.

+1 for the above advice.

ukrifleman

[country gent]

When you clean the die use soft cloths around a nylon brush by hand. Clean the die good and make sure he bleed hole is clean and clear, if it is plugged the air and excess lube cant bleed off causing dents. Hoppes 9 or bore solvent is good for cleaning dies.

[Steve Steven]

Heres what I've done so far: Step one, disassemble and clean die. Was surprised how clean it was. used soft cloth wrapped around an Allen wrench, soaked in brake cleaner (this brand is mostly various alcohols) and then sprayed down with brake cleaner. Air vent hole was filled with soft, discolored lube, easily cleaned out with small probe.

Step two, started making a riser for the shell holder, not finished yet. I might not be able to make this idea work, the die has to be up inside the threaded hole and the shell holder will go up inside, but leaves no room for set screws to hold it in place. Thinking about that.

Steve

[lightman]

I keep a rag in one hand and wipe off the neck and shoulder before putting the case in the shellholder. My method has me loading the press with my left hand and working the handle with my right so I hold the rag right handed.

[1hole]

... I just finished resizing 80 cases and had a lot of shoulder oil dents. I am using Bag Balm for lube, applied by wiping on with fingers, a generous amount. I learned early not to lube neck or shoulder, that reduced number of dents but did not eliminate them.

Cases get stuck in the lower (thicker) parts. You're almost certainly making the new guy mistake of lubing the upper case too much and the lower part too little. A THIN film of lube on the neck and shoulder is helpful and only a very little more on the lower case is quite sufficient.

A clue to how well you're doing is the effort required to jam the cases into the FL sizer. If it's hard to do then withdraw it and apply more 'slick-em' to the lower case and do it again; do that and you'll never have another stuck case.

I doubt there is any commercial case lube that's actually "better" than others when correctly applied. The real working difference between lubes is how they are best applied; determine how you wish to lube your cases (roll, spray or finger rub) and get a lube that works well that way.

To each his own but I tossed my messy old lube pads decades ago and will never go back and I hate the mess of over spray AND the lube that's wasted. But I love the finger applied soft waxes (Imperial, Unique, Kiwi Mink Oil, bag balms, etc); done right they are super fast to apply with just fingertips and they leave my hands, dies and ammo clean.

[Steve Steven]

Latest report: Well the extended case holder did not work, the Lyman case holder I am using is 70 thousands to big to go up inside the threads, I don't have a tool post grinder to cut it down, besides its my only 223 holder. Wonder if a Lee one is softer and could be cut down with lathe tooling?

On another note, boys are shooting my M1 Garand next match in a "as issued" M1 match, so I pulled out some R-P factory primed brass I had. Checked cases in my FORSTER case length gage, they were 3 to 5 thousands too long. I resized them using the Bag Balm and was surprised at how little was required. Maybe I was using too much lube on the 223 cases.

Next step is to get some Hornady "One Shot" and try that.

Steve

[oldhenry]

For me Hornady Unique used sparingly (just a slight amount on my finger tips) for the outside & a slight amount on a Q-tip for the neck inside.

I haven't used my RCBS lube pad in 30 years.

[gnappi]

Either switch to an alcohol/lanolin lube or imperial wax.
>>SNIP<<

Agreed 100%

[Wayne Smith]

Bag Balm is an alcohol/lanolin lube with a touch of antibiotic added.

[Fireball 57]

SteveSteven: While I use Imperial Sizing Wax for all rifle case sizing, I use it sparingly as It can cause shoulder dents. After sizing the case, I take a clean cotton cloth and put a few drops of lighter fluid on the cloth, wipe the case in fluid and by the time I put the sized and wiped case in the loader block, the case is dry! Be careful, no smoking while reloading and NO SHOULDER DENTS, EVER!! Have a good day. Fireball

[SweetMk]

I hope the case dent problem is resolved,,
and, I hope that you are not tossing the damaged 223 cases,, :holysheep

Any friend that has a 300 AAC Blackout would love to have dented shoulder cases.:idea:
The process of making 300 AAC brass cuts that shoulder off first, so, those brass surely would still be useful.

[Steve Steven]

Latest on my case dent problem:

I needed 20 more cases to fill out a box of 50, so I broke out some commercial once fired brass (Winchester) I had, it had been deprimed, citric acid cleaned and bagged up for 6 months.

I sized it using a Lee die I just bought (RCBS was involved in case holder work) using less case lube as several here had advised. Worked great, only 2 minor dents out of 20, these were early in the task as I was learning how to apply less lube.

Think thats the answer, the amount of lube I had been using was based on my previous work with '06 and 308 brass, and was clearly too much for the smaller 223 cases. large case, large lube; small case, small lube

Thanks for the advice and thoughts, its appreciated!

Steve

[Bazoo]

I have found myself not lubing far enough down the case sometimes if I wasn't paying attention, those are hard to size regardless of how much lube is on the upper half.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I've used the case lube pads a lot in past; It helps to occasionally clean the pad thoroughly, then re-apply the lube.Yes - they do get looking nasty grungy otherwise, LOL

[brstevns]

Easy fix.......Imperial Sizing Wax

Been using it for almost 40 years, the best case lube I found.
A tin will last thru 1000's pieces of brass. a little goes a long way. I use to get those shoulder dents whenever I used any of the liquid lubes.

[Steve Steven]

Got the Lee #4 shell holder and tried cutting it down in the lathe, it cut easily and clean with a carbide tool. Finishing up now, the air vent hole is an 1/8" above the lock ring.

Steve

[Bazoo]

I think I'd have tried drlling a hole in the lock ring at the vent hole. Course I ain't got a lathe though.

[wv109323]

I use Hornady case lube and a lube pad. No stuck cases and very, very few dimples over 7000 resized cases.

[Thin Man]

To avoid lube dents in .223 brass I smear a modest amount of RCBS lube on a pad. I first size a lubed case, then an unlubed case. Repeat this cycle until all brass is sized. If I find occasional stiff sizing with the unlubed brass I switch over to 2 lubed cases and one not lubed because the amount of lube on the pad has reduced to cause the need to go this way. The RCBS lube is very easy to removed from sized cases, something I really enjoy.

[JeffG]

I roll mine in a lube pad, which takes care of the main body. When I take them off the pad, I spin the neck and shoulder between thumb and fore finger which lubes and removes any excess. No lube dents.

[Steve Steven]

Just finished sizing 50 .223 cases, no dents! Used a minimum amount of lube with my Lee sizer, no stuck cases. Thanks to all who recommended to use less lube, it worked!

Steve

[Three44s]

With the Hornady Unique lube, I use it sparingly like the Imperial.

I place a tiny bit on the neck as I spin it in my fingers but AVOID getting any on the shoulder. I then transition to the case body, preferably starting at the base and work towards the shoulder but again stopping short of it.

Even getting too much lube on the outside of the neck can lead to shoulder denting so go easy on the neck lubing.

Three44s