Corrosive ammo shoots better than today's ammo.

[Terryrm1-03]

My nephew got a German Mauser from me a year ago.
He's a crack shot hunter/shooter.
He just informed me, that the corrosive ammo he's got shoots much better groups than uncorrosive.
Anyone have an answer why this would be????
Just really curious!!
Thanks so much!!

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[OS OK]

One ammo is shooting on a 'node' or at least closer to a node than the other ammo.

[William Yanda]

Sounds like time to ladder test some handloads.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Look at it this way, Terry. A nation develops and issues the best weapon/rifle that they can design and produce at that time in history. For the Germans, it was the Mauser. The '98 Mauser was the culmination of several previous models, redesigns, and cartridges/loads. They experimented with case length, caliber, powder, and bullets. They found which rifling produced the best results with the results of these experiments, and rolled it all into one package. So it's not at all surprising that the rifle, given original ammo, will perform well. But, one must also consider that older corrosive ammo is probably no longer at it's optimum performance due to age and storage conditions, and some careful handloading can likely equal and perhaps surpass the performance of the old ammo, especially if one sticks closely to the specifications of that original ammo. Be sure to tell your nephew to clean his rifle after using the corrosive ammo with hot, soapy water or a water based cleaning solvent.

[Texas by God]

I wonder if the non- corrosive ammo that he is shooting is mild factory Remington/ Winchester with the 170 grain .321” bullets?

[MostlyLeverGuns]

+1 on the underpowered, undersized American 8mm Mauser (8x57) FACTORY ammo. It is not hard to improve on American 8mm Mauser ammo. I have a bunch of very old military corrosive 8x57 . It does shoot OK, but it is easy to improve upon without special reloading techniques. Time spent with full-diameter bullets, .324/.325 cast boolits easily match the accuracy of the corrosive military ammunition. The fast twist 1-9.5 of most 8x57 must be considered for boolits. Jacketed .323 bullets can match factory '06 ammunition for velocity and accuracy, weight for weight, in sound rifles.

[Terryrm1-03]

Thanks for the knowledge guys!
He's in college in Montana, and currently Elk hunting now.
I won't get a response from him, about what new ammo he's using.
I'm curious also!
I'll pass on this info to him!
I know he doesnt reload.
Thank u, again!

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[Terryrm1-03]

Got ahold of him! Here's my nephews texts!

Put many different types of ammo through it. Loves nasty turkish and romanian. Hates federal and ppu. S and b is okay but groups high and left. REALLY hates ethiopian. Good thing I bought one of those giant crates of romanian. Just gotta put water through the barrel after I shoot and give it a very thorough lube afterwards. Rifling is still pristine! Better shooter than a few scoped rifles of mine. Love it though!


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[Winger Ed.]

There's more going on that is affecting his accuracy than just the old school primers.

There's several cases of GI issue ammo being noticeably different than its civilian counterpart.
Like modern civilian .30-06 being hard on a M1 Garand.
Or USGI 7.62NATO stuff being hotter than the Europeans load it to.

[303Guy]

I wonder whether the bullet used in that ammo has something to do with it? One particular bullet shoots very well in my two-groove #4. Just a thought. If one was inclined, a few bullets could be pulled and tried in hand loads. Just a thought.

[Uncle Grinch]

Make sure your son also cleans the bolt face with water. It’s often overlooked and will quickly go bad.

[Thunder Stick]

My Mauser is a Turkish refurb German GEWER model 98 in 8X57, made in the 1930's. The rifling is poor and looks like a sewer pipe. However, with the Turkish corrosive ammo, it shoots fine groups.

https://i.imgur.com/lW1UmAM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pPcmRss.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PRq5GQQ.jpg

Remington 8X57 ammo is loaded pretty weak with a 170 grain jwords running around 2350 FPS. I found a box of PMC 8X57 ammo at a gun show that pushes a 170 grain spitzer much faster. I need to test it some day.

https://i.imgur.com/bPCwnxP.jpg

[Terryrm1-03]

Thanks for the tips guys! And REPLIES!

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[beltfed]

Winger Ed,
The hottest 7.62 Nato ammo I ever shot was not US, it was Indian Ball. And some Hirtenberger was quite up there .
beltfed/arnie

[Shiloh]

I would like to think that the primer has little to do with it. Any ammo, including surplus, will vary from lot to lot.

Shiloh

[Winger Ed.]

Winger Ed,
The hottest 7.62 Nato ammo I ever shot was not US, it was Indian Ball. And some Hirtenberger was quite up there .
beltfed/arnie

I got a big can of German surplus NATO awhile back. It grouped OK, but hit a few inches low at 200,
and had a comparatively light recoil.

I'd read somewhere about our allies complaining US GI 7.62 was hard on their rifles.
For ours, it might be too, I don't know; but for us- if you trashed a rifle from shooting it, ya just turned it in and got a new one.

[savagetactical]

There's more going on that is affecting his accuracy than just the old school primers.

There's several cases of GI issue ammo being noticeably different than its civilian counterpart.
Like modern civilian .30-06 being hard on a M1 Garand.
Or USGI 7.62NATO stuff being hotter than the Europeans load it to.

To be fair USGI M2 Ball is usually hotter than the advertised specs because of how they took readings. The chronograph technology of the day necessitated that the be 78 feet from the muzzle hence the specification 2,740 feet per second minimum velocity, measured 78 feet from the muzzle.

Almost all of the USGI M2 ball I have chronographed has been significantly hotter than this . My goto M2 ball duplication load is 47 grains of IMR 4064 with a 144 grain FMJ BT that runs close to 2800 feet per second at the muzzle.

Modern civilian ammo is not really harder on a Garand there is a perpetuation of myth that port pressure generated by slower burning powders damages op rods , but that has really been debunked . There was a good article in the GCA about this, what actually ends up happening is that slower powders more likely cause more receiver battering as the bolt cycles.

[perotter]

I could be that it's the more perfectly matched powder and not the primer. But the US military match ammo did use corrosive primers after the standard ammo was changed to non-corrosive. If I remember right, with most corrosive formulas the lock time is shorter for one thing.

Plus the chemistry is much simpler with corrosive formulas, so the consistency primer to primer is better. As of a 20 years ago some of what is in a modern non-corrosive prime, it isn't known it it will work until after it is made and tested. See G. Frost's book.

[Eddie1971]

My Mauser is a Turkish refurb German GEWER model 98 in 8X57, made in the 1930's. The rifling is poor and looks like a sewer pipe. However, with the Turkish corrosive ammo, it shoots fine groups.

https://i.imgur.com/lW1UmAM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pPcmRss.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/PRq5GQQ.jpg

Remington 8X57 ammo is loaded pretty weak with a 170 grain jwords running around 2350 FPS. I found a box of PMC 8X57 ammo at a gun show that pushes a 170 grain spitzer much faster. I need to test it some day.

https://i.imgur.com/bPCwnxP.jpg

That is a nice group. The ammo is not Turk but Yugoslavian Ss ball from 1950's.

[Shiloh]

My guess is worked up hand loads will be equivalent or better.
The Turk ammo I have kicks like a mule and has a fireball like a naval gun.
Not to mention 6-8" high at 100 yards.

Shiloh

[Texas by God]

The Yugo ammo featured above shot best of all the corrosive primed 8x57mm ammo I've tried over the years. But the 1970's FNM non corrosive 8x57mm ammo from Portugal was better in my Danzig 98, Egyptian Hakim, BRNO/ E.R.Shaw, and Tikka T3 8x57mm rifles.

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[Jack Stanley]

Something to consider is that some surplus uses a 197 grain bullet and some might be a 150 grain flat base . Comparing that to commercial and not knowing what the surplus bullet weight is Leave you with "what does the rifle shoot best" . That doesn't really answer the question "are corrosive primers more accurate"

Maybe pull down some corrosive ammo and load it back with known powder and bullet and do the same with modern primers .

Jack

[rockrat]

I have some Yugoslavian M-80 ball ammo that clocks near to 3100fps IIRC. Corrosive, but accurate as anything,usually giving sub. 1" groups @100 in about any gun I have used it (except for my xp100:))

[Eddie1971]

The Yugo ammo featured above shot best of all the corrosive primed 8x57mm ammo I've tried over the years. But the 1970's FNM non corrosive 8x57mm ammo from Portugal was better in my Danzig 98, Egyptian Hakim, BRNO/ E.R.Shaw, and Tikka T3 8x57mm rifles.

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My Hakim and Hakim's I owned in the past used to love that Portuguese 8mm. It was funny because I would have lots of duds when using them in my 98 Mausers, but I would save them and run them in the Hakim, and they would all go off. I was looking for one of those T3's you mention in 8mm but they have been discontinued from what I see.

[jaysouth]

The best and most accurate ammo I ever got my hands on was a stash of FA NM 36 that came from a National Guard marksmanship unit a long time ago. I assumed it was corrosive and cleaned my rifle accordingly. Don't know if it really was corrosive primed or not, but it shot lights out in a star gauged 1903.