What in the world do I have here? Soft lead with zinc?

[Rickf1985]

A while ago I posted about a home made tester using a punch but then I ended up getting the Lee tester. I was looking to find out what some big home made weights are that I have that are many, many years old. So I cut off a chunk and it came out to plain soft lead, a 10 on the scale on the chart. No problem, I will melt them down into ingots to make them more manageable. This is where it gets strange. I spent hours cutting this monster down to pieces that would fit in the Lee melter and once in there it melted quite fast but even at 600 degrees it had a heavy layer of crunchy goo on top that scooped off very easily. I do all of my smelting at less than 700 degrees so that any zinc that finds it's way in there will not melt. So I am thinking this might be zinc but wouldn't that make the lead hard? I was pouring this into my ingot molds and as the day went on I noticed that it was getting harder and harder to get the ingots out of the mold. I thought this was a bit strange since the lead usually just about falls out. The last couple loads I did I was paying close attention to the melting temps, I put the thermometer in before I added more lead and let it solidify around the thermometer and noted the temp at which it did so, 500 degrees. As it warmed up I watched very closely for it to start to melt and noted as soon as it melted at the thermometer and again, right at 500 degrees. This seems very cool for something alloyed with zinc? In the last load as I was fluxing and scooping the trash off the top I felt a big chunk and scooped it out and apparently it was a chunk of zinc. Once it cooled I could dig into it and it would break off and look like pot metal. I emptied the pot by turning it upside down so it was completely empty and I put that chunk back in and it would not melt at a laser indicated reading of 750 degrees. I put it on a piece of metal and hit it with a torch and it melted very easily that way, again, looks like zinc. All of the ingots made with this mix came out frosted if that means anything. SOOOOO. Do I have 55 lbs. of ingots that are good for nothing but sinkers?

Here are some pics to show what I have. Feel free to ask any questions you may have. I have htree more of these weights but I wam thinking they are probably not good for much else than weights.

https://i.postimg.cc/dQysgnjt/IMG-20201026-155758424-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/MXzJQ7Lh)

https://i.postimg.cc/QC1j5xdW/IMG-20201026-160419055-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/kRMrPC8n)

https://i.postimg.cc/021kvmVG/IMG-20201026-160442068-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/6TzJL7JT)

https://i.postimg.cc/9QWcR25r/IMG-20201026-161148891-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/bsF7WKvh)

https://i.postimg.cc/VL9Yk6hx/IMG-20201026-161205034-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ykdqfVsj)

https://i.postimg.cc/k4VJJyrs/IMG-20201026-161209832-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/dkYPnrVZ)

https://i.postimg.cc/0ycP74PZ/IMG-20201026-161249307-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/18nkQJgN)

https://i.postimg.cc/PxBtP8Tj/IMG-20201026-163004734-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/Q9JLzCF4)

https://i.postimg.cc/hP0BqYzg/IMG-20201026-163016390-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/N5LV6pkP)

https://i.postimg.cc/Gm7n4sx5/IMG-20201026-163019347-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/HryhKnKw)

[Rickf1985]

Last three pics.
https://i.postimg.cc/t4CHRzW6/IMG_20201026_163447371_HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/jL91ZP8q)

https://i.postimg.cc/jjD0Pd8d/IMG_20201026_163453752_HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/hJR5qgWH)

https://i.postimg.cc/cJPqmyj7/IMG_20201026_165144797_HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/B85wSyJt)

[poppy42]

Probably has zinc in it. 10 is a little hard for pure soft lead (6 to 8 for pure lead). Put a few drops of pool acid (muriatic) on it. If it bubbles and fizzes, it’s got lead in it. No reaction and it’s lead. No worries if it does have zinc, it’s probably not a high percentage. You can use Garden sulfur to remove zinc from lead. Especially in small percentages. Search the stickies I’m sure there’s a thread explaining it to use.

[Rickf1985]

When I said 10 that was a little misleading, that was 10 on the Lee scale in their microscope which equates to 6 or below on the hardness scale. Thanks for the acid tip, I forgot all about that one and I do have some acid. Will have to try to find the sulfur thread. I am thinking that is probably something I would want to do when the neighbors are working!

[poppy42]

I have a Lee hardness tester. 10 in not pure soft lead! When I make Wheel weight ingots I get anywhere from 11 to 13, unless I mix in a bunch of stick on’s! Then 10 or 11 is not uncommon. All of which I simply add about 2% tin to come up with my pistol alloy. I have no need for anything harder for my pistol Boolets. Others needs may vary but for me they are perfect

[Rickf1985]

Ok, I have the Lee chart right here in front of me and it only goes to .079 which is 8.0 hardness and my lead is showing up at .10. every .010 is 1 full digit on the hardness scale so I am jumping .020 which would be 2 digits on the scale hence 6.0 hardness. Unless you are working off of a different scale?

[poppy42]

OK I’m not exactly following what you were doing I am looking at the Lee hardness scale chart. If the size of the demple is .079You have a hardness on the BHN scale of 8.0. If the size of your dimple measures .071 you would have a BHN of 10.1. Pure soft lead has a BHN of around 6 to 8! All I’m trying to say is that a BHN of 10 is not pure soft lead. I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. Lol Technically all the sources I find that say pure lead has a BHN of five I’ve never seen any for our purposes that soft as I don’t purchase pure soft lead.

[Springfield]

First off, if you are going to melt larger pieces like that you need a bigger pot. Second, fluxing at 600 degrees is not hot enough to return all the stuff that floats to the top back into the mix, in my experience. Third, what are you fluxing with? And fourth, if all the metal is coming from one big piece why are you worried about "zinc getting into it" ? If the zinc is already in the chunk chances are you will not manage to get it out, at least not just by melting and skimming. I betting if you up the temp and flux a bi more that crunchy stuff will disappear.

[poppy42]

+1 on that also

[Conditor22]

https://i.imgur.com/kYj6BjW.png

[Rcmaveric]

BHN of 10 is my normal mix for almost everything.

Just some oxide. Flux the crap out of and then cover the top with borax to prevent it from corroding. No real way to say. What's in. Doubt its zinc though. Zinc issues show up more as being a real pita to cast with and the spout freezing over and horrid bulketfill out.

That skum was just oxides from. I get that some times if I don't do a good job fluxing. I flux with saw dust and let it cook lol. Then finnish off with a couple good bee wax or smell good candles. Wifes stolen smell good candles is the secret ingredient to homing bullets if you didn't know.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[Rickf1985]

First off, if you are going to melt larger pieces like that you need a bigger pot. Second, fluxing at 600 degrees is not hot enough to return all the stuff that floats to the top back into the mix, in my experience. Third, what are you fluxing with? And fourth, if all the metal is coming from one big piece why are you worried about "zinc getting into it" ? If the zinc is already in the chunk chances are you will not manage to get it out, at least not just by melting and skimming. I betting if you up the temp and flux a bi more that crunchy stuff will disappear.

Believe it or not with those large pieces in there it melted down in five minutes or less. That pot works great. I don't generally do large stuff like that so getting a larger pot is not worth it for me unless I can find a turkey fryer cheap. Then I will cut down a propane tank I have and smelt in that. But I have always had good luck with smelting at lower temps and keeping the zinc wheel weights out of the mix. They just float with the clips. I did take it up to 750 0n a small run to see if the mush would melt and it did not. it did not change at all. Now that the pot is completely empty I might take all that sludge and put it in there and run it up to 800 and see if it melts. Like I said, the one chunk in the mix I fished out that would not melt at 750 did melt easily with a propane torch. I just did not want to ruin a 20 lb. pot of lead just to find out that, yes, zinc will alloy at 800 degrees and now I have junk. I may have junk anyway but at least I didn't push it.

[Rickf1985]

OK I’m not exactly following what you were doing I am looking at the Lee hardness scale chart. If the size of the demple is .079You have a hardness on the BHN scale of 8.0. If the size of your dimple measures .071 you would have a BHN of 10.1. Pure soft lead has a BHN of around 6 to 8! All I’m trying to say is that a BHN of 10 is not pure soft lead. I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. Lol Technically all the sources I find that say pure lead has a BHN of five I’ve never seen any for our purposes that soft as I don’t purchase pure soft lead.

My dimple is .10

[Rickf1985]

BHN of 10 is my normal mix for almost everything.

Just some oxide. Flux the crap out of and then cover the top with borax to prevent it from corroding. No real way to say. What's in. Doubt its zinc though. Zinc issues show up more as being a real pita to cast with and the spout freezing over and horrid bulketfill out.

That skum was just oxides from. I get that some times if I don't do a good job fluxing. I flux with saw dust and let it cook lol. Then finnish off with a couple good bee wax or smell good candles. Wifes stolen smell good candles is the secret ingredient to homing bullets if you didn't know.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I usually flux with paraffin wax since that is what I have. I prefer beeswax but at the price of it right now I will stick to the paraffin. I do have regular flux made for this purpose but to me it does no better than the wax and it is sloppy and makes a mess of the pot. I have used sawdust before but then my neighbors think I am burning down my garage. LOL. I will throw a few of the ingots from this stuff back in the pot along with the scum I dredged off and see if it will clean up. What have I got to lose?

[poppy42]

My dimple is .10

I think you have a problem someplace, if you’re coming up with a dimple size of .1. Considering a dimple size of .079 gives you a bhn hardness of 8. That would mean you’re measuring something that’s so soft it’s off the chart. are you sure you’re testing lead and not cheddar cheese? Lol

[fredj338]

It isnt zinc, melt temp is too low & zinc looks more like oatmeal. You have a mystery alloy but maybe have someone with a better tester test it? if it melts at 500deg, it could have a high tin content, like solder?

[Rickf1985]

Ok, This stuff is out to get me! I just tested the nuggets I set aside for that purpose and they came out to 6.2 on the Lee scale which is 13.4 BHN. So I grab one of the full size ingots and test that, 6.2. 13.4 BHN again. I have no idea what is going on but I still have the samples I tested the other day that tested at .10 which is off the BHN scale. I like the new numbers much better but I would like it better if I understood what was going on. I cannot picture the metal hardening that much in one day.

[Rcmaveric]

Testing ingots is unreliable. Best to cast a bullet and test that. Time, voting, and work affects hardness.

Depending on the age of that ingot it could have age softened or work softened. Once remelted you have your base hardness back. Then the hardness will stabilize in about two weeks.

Becarefull, oatmeal or grainy alloy doesn't always mean zinc. High Antimony leads do the same thing. Flux it and crank up the heat. Contamination is only problem when it affects spout freezing and mold fill out. Just keep the zinc level under .12%.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[Rickf1985]

I am having a problem with my mold filling out BUT, it is a new Lee 6 bullet mold and I have never used an aluminum mold. I have tried filling from a bottom pour and from a ladle and neither are working for me. I dipped the end of the mold in the lead for a while like they say to do to bring it up to temp but I keep getting the same exact pattern of wrinkles every time. I have gone from 600 to 850 degrees on the lead temp and all kinds of methods of pouring and I get the same exact look every time. I find it hard to believe it is me with all that I have tried but I also tried several different types of lead, pure, straight WW and this mix. I am going to dig out one of my one or two cavity steel pistol molds and try that. I am told that starting to learn on smaller than 38 caliber is tough and this Lee mold is 30 caliber. Remember what I said about the lead sticking to the ingot molds? Anything to that? What would cause that to happen? This is a 75 year old Saeco mold that worked perfectly up til this point. I even smoked it and that made no difference at all.

[Mitch]

oops!

[Traffer]

Yes because alloys change hardness with time it will drive you nuts.
I had a heck of a time when i first started. Every time I went back to some alloy it tested different.
So I quit testing hardness and went to the old fingernail test. For my work I only need to distinguish between hard and soft alloy,. as I only use two harnesses. Soft for 22lr and hard for pistol bullets (10-12 bhn)

[Rcmaveric]

Try preheating the mold for about 5 to 10 min. See if that helps. Hot plate proffered. If you use the edge of the pot dunk the edge into molt for 2 to 5 seconds before casting with.

If its a brand new mold try smoking it with match or lighter. You will be surprised how long it takes to cook the oil out of even if you cleaned it well with boiling soapy water and brake cleaner.

Take your pot temp up to about 900 to 950. See if that helps.

When I get super irritated with stubborn mold/alloy. Pressure fill that bad boy and run that mold hot. Frosted bullets are fine.

If you have a bit of tin adding 1 to 2 oz to a full pot may help aswell.

That's my trouble shooting tree for stubborn casting session.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[bangerjim]

Zn + HCl = bubbles. Period! Use the acid test to detect Zn, not all that messing around with melt temps and carp in you pot.

[Lloyd Smale]

BHN of 10 is my normal mix for almost everything.

Just some oxide. Flux the crap out of and then cover the top with borax to prevent it from corroding. No real way to say. What's in. Doubt its zinc though. Zinc issues show up more as being a real pita to cast with and the spout freezing over and horrid bulketfill out.

That skum was just oxides from. I get that some times if I don't do a good job fluxing. I flux with saw dust and let it cook lol. Then finnish off with a couple good bee wax or smell good candles. Wifes stolen smell good candles is the secret ingredient to homing bullets if you didn't know.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

I agree. Doesnt look like zinc to me.

[Rickf1985]

Well, I tested the samples I made and then I tested an ingot from the same load of lead and I went back and looked at a bullet I tested but I don't remember if it was this lead or the wheel weigh lead but they all came out to .062 on Lee's scale which is 13.4 BHN. I will take that with no problem. I am still perplexed at the mush in the pot but that lead was pretty dirty and originally poured into metal coffee cans that rusted away so there was all kinds of contamination there. I will get the acid out and see what that shows. Rcmaveric, isn't 950 getting up into the range you do NOT want to get into with lead? I do not want vaporized lead, I have ventilation but I don't want to push my luck.

Here is a pic of the ones I tested. All of the ones on top test at .062 and the bullet at the bottom is sheet lead and tested at .10 You can see on both bullets the fill out problems.

https://i.postimg.cc/vB78d5VZ/IMG-20201028-141543158-HDR.jpg (https://postimg.cc/8J5gRJ42)

[Rickf1985]

Acid test had zero fizz, nice clean spot on lead but no fizz. cool and damp in garage meant smoke vapor as soon as lid came off the acid! Forgot that part, NOW I am awake and sinuses are clear!!!

https://i.postimg.cc/SKMKNJPH/IMG-20201028-144653520.jpg (https://postimg.cc/t19bBCpz)

[Rickf1985]

Now I feel like the real horses tail end! So I got no fizz on the lead I was working with. I decided to check the dross I pulled off the pot since there was a lot of it and there was a lot of metal in it. Very little fizz and what I saw I attributed to the dirt fizzing so I put all of the dross back in the pot. (after washing off the acid) Fired it up and waited to see what happened it started melting about 550 and kind of fell off until around 750 and then I was able to break it up like crystal. After it got to the same point it was at before on top of the melt I started chopping at it with the blade and breaking it all up and that was when I saw what I actually had......................... Dirt! Worked at it for a while and when I was done I had a pretty fair sized pile of dust and dirt and no metal in the dross pile and probably 10 ounces of lead in the pot. I shut the pot down and once it is cool I will drop out that piece and test it and I am betting it will come out the same as the rest of them did and all along my problem was I just did not break up the chunks and separate the dirt from the metal. If that is the case then I am happy since I have another 150 lbs. of this stuff to smelt down. Very labor intensive to cut it into pieces that will fit into the pot but hey, Free is not always without labor. Now if I could find a big burner.....................;-)

[Cosmic_Charlie]

My bet is those chunks have some antimony in them. Up the temp and flux. Wheel weights look even worse than that until you get it well mixed and fluxed. I just smelted 113 pounds of wheel weights in the garage this morning and it was pretty grody until I got it cleaned up and mixed/ fluxed well. There were a few zinc ones in the melt but they stayed on top with the steel clips and dross and were strained out. Over time you will get used to smelting.

[Rcmaveric]

Nope.... danger zone is way higher. You have to boil it before its bad. Boil point is 3180 °F.

Higher temp just causes faster oxidation rate. You can off set the by coating the surface with borax. It will form borax glass and lock out oxygen.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[bangerjim]

Yea, let me know the mods you did to get your Pb pot to reach 3,160F - - - - the boiling point of Pb! No vaporized/Pb steam present in the low temps we work at.

[jonp]

Cast a boolit and test it. Ingots will harden over time. I vote against zinc. What you got is dust and crunchy stuff from a not so clean chunk of lead

[Rickf1985]

Dirt is exactly what I had. I will take a pic of the pile I mined out of the pot when I remelted the dross I had taken out and I broke it all up and all the dirt separated out. Been fighting a really bad headache all day and the meds I have to take for that leave me a bit foggy so I don't do anything technical or dangerous until the next day. But I will try making some bullets from this alloy, I just need to get them to form better. What is the average pour temp and what is the upper limit for pouring? I went to Lee's site and watched one of their videos on using this very mold and guess what? The damn bullets look exactly the same!!!! All wrinkled. Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the mold. I have already tried the dipping the mold in the pot, made no difference.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I run my pot at 700 degrees. Works very well. I do preheat my molds on the glass top,stove until they are too hot to touch. Get good bullets right away.

[Mitch]

Pm sent

[Rickf1985]

Ok, I am going to resurrect this old thread instead of starting a new one so everyone can see the whole backstory. After Mitch on here got together with me on a couple phone calls plus I purchased a PID for both of my pots from Hatch, also on here, I got the lead cleaning and consistency down pretty good. I have been tied up with other things since and have not had time to do any boolit making but today was a good day for it so I got to work. I my past threads I had that lead that was questionable and that was what I was using today to start. It has a BHN of 15-16 so it is perfect except that it has a strange look to it. It looks crystalized. I did an acid test and nothing at all so no zinc. It melts right at 600 degrees so a low melting temp. I can tell you it does not fill out a mold worth a crap!! I tried taking the temp all the way up to 800 and no joy. Tried heating the molds very hot and also smoking them. Nothing. Emptied the pot and put in some WW lead I had that tested at 14 BHN and lowered the temp to 750 and BINGO! Perfect boolits! Lowered it to 700 and still good boolits. So I am including some pics of the old lead and the WW lead in the form of the boolits as they were made today. Lighting was tough but I tried to get the crystallization to show. All of the bad boolits are on top in the pics except the one where there are 4 boolits on the table and 2 on the lid, in that shot the bad ones are on the left. Let me know what you think.
The first pic are the bad ones and the second pic are the wheel weight ones. One other thing I need to mention, The wheel weight lead is heavier, On these bullets shown the bad ones are 170 grains and the good ones are 174.5 grains. That is measured over 10 boolits of each.

https://i.postimg.cc/v8WzqRnv/IMG-20210101-165459726.jpg (https://postimg.cc/6TpnqmY7)

https://i.postimg.cc/QxmqDp09/IMG-20210101-165529373.jpg (https://postimg.cc/bsGnH2Xp)

https://i.postimg.cc/K8YD8RH9/IMG-20210101-165707024.jpg (https://postimg.cc/9rv7xFVT)

https://i.postimg.cc/K8srkmXm/IMG-20210101-165842269.jpg (https://postimg.cc/XrdytS7P)

https://i.postimg.cc/9fRPysVZ/IMG-20210101-170038683.jpg (https://postimg.cc/LqSZpCJ8)

https://i.postimg.cc/5NbmDPqW/IMG-20210101-170140722.jpg (https://postimg.cc/7bt72nWK)

https://i.postimg.cc/yxXyk9KG/IMG-20210101-170226147.jpg (https://postimg.cc/9w07kDrP)

[Centaur 1]

Since no one knows for sure what you have, I'll give you my best hunch. Cast bullets using this alloy weigh less than the ones cast from wheel weights, so there's probably less lead in the mix than clip on wheel weights (coww). The mold isn't filling out as nice as the wheel weight, so my best guess is that it's not tin that's making them lighter. Now there's always the chance that you have something in the babbitt or bismuth families. By any chance did you have an uncle who replaced engine crankshaft bearings, or work in a babbitt mine? If not then it's not very likely that you have something exotic. Coww's have 2.5-3% antimony and .5% tin, and people still add tin to help with fill out in some molds. Rumor has it that really old (pre 1980) coww's had upwards of 6% antimony and .5% tin. If this is what you have, then adding tin would not only work, but most likely it'll be a requirement. In reality, no matter what alloy you have, adding tin will probably be the answer.

I would try mixing small batches of it with other lead you have, then cast some bullets and see how they shoot. Your bullets really don't look as bad as you make them out to be. Try mixing 5lbs of this alloy with 5lbs of coww, then add just enough tin to fill out the sharp corners and make beautiful bullets.

My guess is that this will work just fine for casting bullets. And with either a good lube or a powder coated finish, you'll have no problem reaching 2200+ F.P.S. velocity.

I really hope this helps and doesn't make the confusion any worse.

Mike

[P Flados]

There are a couple of things going on.

You indicate a hardness close to pure, but a melting point of 500 degf.

The normal additive to drop the melting point of lead from 621 to 500 degf would be tin.

I found Rotometals sells a 40:1 (97.5% - 2.5%) lead tin alloy that has a hardness of 7-8 BHN and an 30:1 (97% - 3%) that has a hardness of 9 BHN.

Melting point of both of the above is well above 500 degf (see chart below).

So unless your data points are off quite a bit, the reduced melting point is probably not due to tin. Lead - Bismuth alloys melt at lower temps than Lead - Tin alloys. I am guessing that a small amount of bismuth could drop the melting point quite a bit. I am not sure how bismuth affects hardness. As long as you can get the alloy to work (see below), some bismuth should not hurt anything.

Now for the stuff you removed. Most anything with a melting point over 700 degf is probably best left out of casting lead unless you know what it is and can control the percentage. If you really want to you could try to blend small amounts back into large batches over time. Very small amounts of even the dreaded zinc actually increase hardness a little bit without causing any real problems.

Regardless of all of the above, you seem to have some sort of mystery lead alloy. I would not be reluctant at all in trying to using it. As long as it is heavy and melts decent, at worst it can be blended with other sources of lead to "fix" it.

Try to cast a small batch of bullets. Flux well and confirm you get a smooth liquid alloy (not lumpy or slushy) at a normal casting temp. If not you probably should consider blending this batch with some lead from another source until it becomes more "normal".

See how hard it is to get good fill out and wrinkle free bullets. If needed you can add tin (or pewter) to your small batch to help getting good fill out and no wrinkles.

Once you are getting decent looking bullets, check the weights. If they are a lot lighter than expected, you have mystery alloy that should be blended in with other sources of lead until your weights get reasonable. If they are on the heavy side, you have a high percentage lead. Any high percentage lead alloy can be adjusted to improve it by increasing tin content as needed for better fill out and antimony content (typically by blending in some "hard lead" such as wheel weights, linotype, superhard) to increase hardness.

I really dislike waste, so I tend to try real hard to "do what it takes" for cases like this. I just consider it part of the game.

274463

[Rickf1985]

There are a couple of things going on.

You indicate a hardness close to pure, but a melting point of 500 degf.

The normal additive to drop the melting point of lead from 621 to 500 degf would be tin.

I found Rotometals sells a 40:1 (97.5% - 2.5%) lead tin alloy that has a hardness of 7-8 BHN and an 30:1 (97% - 3%) that has a hardness of 9 BHN.

Melting point of both of the above is well above 500 degf (see chart below).

So unless your data points are off quite a bit, the reduced melting point is probably not due to tin. Lead - Bismuth alloys melt at lower temps than Lead - Tin alloys. I am guessing that a small amount of bismuth could drop the melting point quite a bit. I am not sure how bismuth affects hardness. As long as you can get the alloy to work (see below), some bismuth should not hurt anything.

Now for the stuff you removed. Most anything with a melting point over 700 degf is probably best left out of casting lead unless you know what it is and can control the percentage. If you really want to you could try to blend small amounts back into large batches over time. Very small amounts of even the dreaded zinc actually increase hardness a little bit without causing any real problems.

Regardless of all of the above, you seem to have some sort of mystery lead alloy. I would not be reluctant at all in trying to using it. As long as it is heavy and melts decent, at worst it can be blended with other sources of lead to "fix" it.

Try to cast a small batch of bullets. Flux well and confirm you get a smooth liquid alloy (not lumpy or slushy) at a normal casting temp. If not you probably should consider blending this batch with some lead from another source until it becomes more "normal".

See how hard it is to get good fill out and wrinkle free bullets. If needed you can add tin (or pewter) to your small batch to help getting good fill out and no wrinkles.

Once you are getting decent looking bullets, check the weights. If they are a lot lighter than expected, you have mystery alloy that should be blended in with other sources of lead until your weights get reasonable. If they are on the heavy side, you have a high percentage lead. Any high percentage lead alloy can be adjusted to improve it by increasing tin content as needed for better fill out and antimony content (typically by blending in some "hard lead" such as wheel weights, linotype, superhard) to increase hardness.

I really dislike waste, so I tend to try real hard to "do what it takes" for cases like this. I just consider it part of the game.

274463

What I am working with here with this mix I am using for these bullets comes out to a BHN of 15, far from pure. Melting point is right on 600 degrees and I have melted it several times so I know it is consistent. I think maybe you are looking way back in the beginning at what I was dealing with from the start.

[Rickf1985]

Since no one knows for sure what you have, I'll give you my best hunch. Cast bullets using this alloy weigh less than the ones cast from wheel weights, so there's probably less lead in the mix than clip on wheel weights (coww). The mold isn't filling out as nice as the wheel weight, so my best guess is that it's not tin that's making them lighter. Now there's always the chance that you have something in the babbitt or bismuth families. By any chance did you have an uncle who replaced engine crankshaft bearings, or work in a babbitt mine? If not then it's not very likely that you have something exotic. Coww's have 2.5-3% antimony and .5% tin, and people still add tin to help with fill out in some molds. Rumor has it that really old (pre 1980) coww's had upwards of 6% antimony and .5% tin. If this is what you have, then adding tin would not only work, but most likely it'll be a requirement. In reality, no matter what alloy you have, adding tin will probably be the answer.

I would try mixing small batches of it with other lead you have, then cast some bullets and see how they shoot. Your bullets really don't look as bad as you make them out to be. Try mixing 5lbs of this alloy with 5lbs of coww, then add just enough tin to fill out the sharp corners and make beautiful bullets.

My guess is that this will work just fine for casting bullets. And with either a good lube or a powder coated finish, you'll have no problem reaching 2200+ F.P.S. velocity.

I really hope this helps and doesn't make the confusion any worse.

Mike

You are calling pre 80's really old?!! LOL I must be older than dirt then! Well, This lead was here when I bought the place and it is in the form of what used to be large metal coffee cans filled with lead and then an eye stuck in the end before it hardened. I am thinking an anchor of sorts. I also have three sledgehammers made the same way with a heavy copper pipe for the handle. These all weigh 65 lbs. each. I also found many very large homemade ingots that are dead soft lead. I figure those old weights are at least 60 years old or more. There is a picture of one of them a ways back in the thread.
Here is a pic of one of the hammers, The weight/anchor is the same thing with an eye on the end for a rope.

https://i.postimg.cc/L8TzvShx/IMG-20190503-174038-1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/NKK9fW6X)

[Centaur 1]

I also used to live in New Jersey back before they invented dirt, it was a bitch growing those tomatoes in straight Watchung mountain bluestone. Lead was a lot easier to get back then, and homemade boat anchors were a common thing. Those "hammers" are interesting, I'm thinking that they'd even be too heavy for Thor. It makes you wonder what they were trying to build with them. Maybe they were used as fence posts to keep rabbits out of the garden? There are a lot of old homes in your area that had lead pipes in them, that could be where the soft lead came from. Regardless of where it came from I'm sure that you'll be able to make good bullets with it. I would try mixing some of your unknown alloy 50/50 with the soft lead, or try combining equal amounts of the unknown alloy, the soft ingots, and clip on wheel weights.

[farmbif]

in looking through my RCBS cast bullet manual a paragraph from the section on cast bullet alloys might be of help here. it says
"unless one is quite certain of the contents of scrap lead, it is best to be avoided. you will save much time and frustration by using a known alloy, even if you have to pay the going rate to a metals dealer to obtain it."

[Rickf1985]

I also used to live in New Jersey back before they invented dirt, it was a bitch growing those tomatoes in straight Watchung mountain bluestone. Lead was a lot easier to get back then, and homemade boat anchors were a common thing. Those "hammers" are interesting, I'm thinking that they'd even be too heavy for Thor. It makes you wonder what they were trying to build with them. Maybe they were used as fence posts to keep rabbits out of the garden? There are a lot of old homes in your area that had lead pipes in them, that could be where the soft lead came from. Regardless of where it came from I'm sure that you'll be able to make good bullets with it. I would try mixing some of your unknown alloy 50/50 with the soft lead, or try combining equal amounts of the unknown alloy, the soft ingots, and clip on wheel weights.

I used to swing one of those hammers! They weigh roughly 65-70 lbs. Over the head swinging at that. The one I used had a galvanized pipe for a handle that was larger and easier to grip. We used them for driving 12 to 20 inch water pipes into the joints among other things. Needless to say that even though I weigh exactly the same 215 lbs. now that I did way back then it was distributed much differently!:-P

The lead from the one weight I did melt down came back at 15 BHN so not very soft and that is the Chrystal look you see in the pics. The soft lead, a lot of it was in the form of sheet lead so I am guessing that was a source for that. But I also have an old junkyard behind my house so a lot of it may have come from there. One thing I never really thought of is the fact that I am located right on the firing ranges of a military base. I know that nowadays you cannot go out and screen for lead on the ranges but who knows 50-60 years ago. I would think lead was abundant enough that people were not going to that much trouble back then.

[Rickf1985]

That is probably good advice if you have 20-30 lbs. of it but I have probably 800-900 lbs. of it so I think I will send a one pound slug away for testing and see what it is. I know it is not zinc since I already acid tested it, I do that with any lead I get before smelting. Once the alloy is know then I will decide whether to work with it or offer it up for sale.