Rossi 92 reassembly issue (half cock issue)

[PerpetualStudent]

So I very carefully took a rossi 92 apart (https://youtu.be/rKAucKBnbes and http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/field_strip.htm) were the resources I used.

Cleaned it. But now that I've got it re-assembled I find the the hammer wants to drop into half cock on the initial pull. Instead of the normal, smooth pull into full cock, then pull the trigger and ease the hammer into half cock. Now it is happy to stop in the half cock.The trigger also doesn't feel like it did before I cleaned it. The obvious thing to do is to take it apart again and re-assemble it again and hope that sorts it but I was hoping one of you more experienced guys could tell me what I likely screwed up. Throwing in the towel for tonight.

[PerpetualStudent]

I took it apart again. And I think the bolt and lever weren't quite correctly joined. It seemed to be going back together better and easier. I'm at the stage in reassembly after you put bolt pin in. And the bolt seemed to fine, ejected the brass I was using to guide it in but now the bolt is locked in the open position. I then backed up removed the lugs and then put them back and then the bolt closed. I removed and put the pin back in but now it's locked open again.

The locking lugs were black when took it apart. I cleaned them in hoppes part of me wonders now if that was a graphite like lubricant and without that it's just bad? Or maybe I bent something when I improperly assembled it. I'm planning on taking it to a local gunsmith tomorrow. I just don't know what I did wrong.

edit: after more fooling and research the culprit seems to be the pin that joins the lever and bolt. I didn't drive it far enough so there is a tiny amount of of the pin that wasn't flush. It was close enough to squeak by and open but sticks out too much to go back. I can see the problem but I can't find a way to fix it. I just can't push it flush. Hopefully a specialist tool will.

It seems I just have trouble finding the goldilocks amount of persuasion. Obviously I used too much force the first time re-assembled. And this time I didn't use enough.

[indian joe]

So I very carefully took a rossi 92 apart (https://youtu.be/rKAucKBnbes and http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/field_strip.htm) were the resources I used.

Cleaned it. But now that I've got it re-assembled I find the the hammer wants to drop into half cock on the initial pull.
thats how an original 92 is sposed to work

Instead of the normal, smooth pull into full cock, then pull the trigger and ease the hammer into half cock. Now it is happy to stop in the half cock.The trigger also doesn't feel like it did before I cleaned it.
Does it have a coil mainspring ? (my old Rossi did) It easy with some of the coil spring guns to put the spring and strut in upside down
goes together but it wont work

The obvious thing to do is to take it apart again and re-assemble it again and hope that sorts it but I was hoping one of you more experienced guys could tell me what I likely screwed up. Throwing in the towel for tonight.

......

[indian joe]

I took it apart again. And I think the bolt and lever weren't quite correctly joined. It seemed to be going back together better and easier. I'm at the stage in reassembly after you put bolt pin in. And the bolt seemed to fine, ejected the brass I was using to guide it in but now the bolt is locked in the open position. I then backed up removed the lugs and then put them back and then the bolt closed. I removed and put the pin back in but now it's locked open again.
?? use a neat sized pin punch through the access hole in the right hand side to locate everything properly before you try to tap the lever pivot pin home
The pin should have a bevel on one end of it - the bevel end goes in first
dont force things - if you havent got things lined up correctly and you put the lever pin in back to front you can break the firing pin - the sharp end of the reversed lever pivot pin will(can) foul and catch on the stepped part of the firing pin and a good whack with a hammer at that point will snap the firing pin - the lever pin goes in, everything looks ok - the gun might work ok afterwards for days months or years - one day it will quit or you get an out of battery discharge and when you pull it down there will be a fracture through the firing pin right above the lever pivot pin - everybody wonders why they break there ?
so tap the lever pivot pin in gently until its fully home - if it binds a little on the right hand side of the frame - just a tiny tap back until it clears - then put the retaining screw in on the left side and its done.

I suppose it is possible that if the lever pivot pin is loose and sloppy fit that it could jiggle sideways and foul in the locking lug slots when you open the gun but I have worked on 92's for 50 years and never saw that EVER!
Check the fit and function of the mainspring that it is not fouling on the recessed part of the hammer and the hammer works its stroke properly - if you got that in aot that will be your problem


The locking lugs were black when took it apart. I cleaned them in hoppes part of me wonders now if that was a graphite like lubricant and without that it's just bad? Or maybe I bent something when I improperly assembled it. I'm planning on taking it to a local gunsmith tomorrow. I just don't know what I did wrong.

edit: after more fooling and research the culprit seems to be the pin that joins the lever and bolt. I didn't drive it far enough so there is a tiny amount of of the pin that wasn't flush. It was close enough to squeak by and open but sticks out too much to go back. I can see the problem but I can't find a way to fix it. I just can't push it flush. Hopefully a specialist tool will.

It seems I just have trouble finding the goldilocks amount of persuasion. Obviously I used too much force the first time re-assembled. And this time I didn't use enough.

.....

[Froogal]

At one time I was ready to fully disassemble my R92, but then decided to just give it a thorough cleaning. I removed the butt stock and then liberally sprayed brake cleaner into all of the moving parts. Lots of black, nasty looking stuff came running out. I sprayed until the nasty stuff was all gone and then let it dry out. Followed up with a liberal dosing of Ballistol. THAT solved the issues I was having and there was no need for disassembly.

[PerpetualStudent]

If I had just put the main spring in wrong and then gave myself a real problem....well that's about the size of my luck.

About the pin wiggling out, I guess I'm this generation's "better idiot" because I am darn sure that's where I am right now. I removed the locking lugs and I can just see the pin sticking out on the left (bumpy nonchamfered side of the pin) and see where it is catching. I fiddled with a few trying to pop it flush so the bolt can close but it won't.

My working theory is that the screw cap that keeps the pin in was too long (I thought it seemed more flush with the receiver on reassembly). So the screw cap eased the pin in for a quick open but since the pin was wrong it popped back out as soon as the pressure was gone. I'll see if I can get some pictures up tonight or tomorrow. I can see it, I just have no clue how to fix it. And stevegunz has a year backlog and my local gunsmith thinks it's out of his depth and suggested talking to Rossi. But I've heard horror stories of getting things fixed from rossi proper. I don't know. I wanted to try my hand hunting with that this year but that seems...utterly unlikely now.

[indian joe]

If I had just put the main spring in wrong and then gave myself a real problem....well that's about the size of my luck.

About the pin wiggling out, I guess I'm this generation's "better idiot" because I am darn sure that's where I am right now. I removed the locking lugs and I can just see the pin sticking out on the left (bumpy nonchamfered side of the pin) and see where it is catching. I fiddled with a few trying to pop it flush so the bolt can close but it won't.

My working theory is that the screw cap that keeps the pin in was too long (I thought it seemed more flush with the receiver on reassembly). So the screw cap eased the pin in for a quick open but since the pin was wrong it popped back out as soon as the pressure was gone. I'll see if I can get some pictures up tonight or tomorrow. I can see it, I just have no clue how to fix it. And stevegunz has a year backlog and my local gunsmith thinks it's out of his depth and suggested talking to Rossi. But I've heard horror stories of getting things fixed from rossi proper. I don't know. I wanted to try my hand hunting with that this year but that seems...utterly unlikely now.

pm sent .......................

[JoeJames]

I did the same thing, like an idjit, when I was replacing the trigger spring (from Steve's Gunz), when actually doing that did not require taking it all the way down. I fiddled with it again and again, and and again. That's when I learned about using a slave pin to hold everything together when re-assembling it. By then I think the screw cap was half buggered up when I tightened it all the way down; so I put a little Loctight Red on the screw and eased it down just enough for everything to work right, then called it good enough.

[PerpetualStudent]

So here's the picture. I mean on the bright side after fooling with it this long I have a much better idea of how it all comes together.

270360

270361

The space is so tight I don't know how to push that pin in. And I can see the pin hit the side where the receiver thickens. Maybe I ought to put some penetrating oil around the pin end I can see and try again after it's been there overnight.

[indian joe]

So here's the picture. I mean on the bright side after fooling with it this long I have a much better idea of how it all comes together.

270360

270361

The space is so tight I don't know how to push that pin in. And I can see the pin hit the side where the receiver thickens. Maybe I ought to put some penetrating oil around the pin end I can see and try again after it's been there overnight.

All I can suggest at this point is to make a wedge shape punch from a piece of brazing rod and tap that through to push the pin back so you can close the bolt - soon as you have it closed (one locking bolt in to hold it ) then tap the pin out the left side so you can get it apart - take the bolt and lever out of the gun - re assemble the bolt and lever (including ejector) outside the gun so we can figure out what the heck is wrong here.

Cant put this right until you can get the bolt closed and the lever pivot pin out !!

Sorry but your picture is not clear enough for me to see whats wrong - it looks like the lever is down in the action outside the bolt instead of in the slot in the centre but thats impossible so it must be an optical illusion.

[John Boy]

Sometimes it is not a good idea to be a kitchen table gunsmith... lesson learned the hard way

[JoeJames]

One other point the NRA Firearms Disassembly Guide for Rifles and Shotguns has one on the Winchester Model 1892 which works just fine for the Rossi R92.

[Froogal]

One other point the NRA Firearms Disassembly Guide for Rifles and Shotguns has one on the Winchester Model 1892 which works just fine for the Rossi R92.

Is this available on-line? Or is it available in printed form?

[JoeJames]

Is this available on-line? Or is it available in printed form?

I have the hardback here at my office. Title is The NRA Guide to Firearms Assembly; Rifles and Shotguns, Pistols and Revolvers - copyright 1980, and I have the two volume paperback set at home, one volume on Rifles and Shotguns, and one volume on Pistols and Revolvers. Just looked in my hardback and it does cover the Winchester Model 1892. I don't know if it is available online, but it is on Amazon:


Firearms Assembly: The NRA Guide to Rifles and Shotguns, Revised and Expanded Edition Paperback – June 1, 1993
by Joseph Boxley Roberts (Editor)
4.6 out of 5 stars 15 ratings
See all formats and editions

Paperback
$21.00
15 Used from $9.99 5 New from $44.00

[Froogal]

I have the hardback here at my office. Title is The NRA Guide to Firearms Assembly; Rifles and Shotguns, Pistols and Revolvers - copyright 1980, and I have the two volume paperback set at home, one volume on Rifles and Shotguns, and one volume on Pistols and Revolvers. Just looked in my hardback and it does cover the Winchester Model 1892. I don't know if it is available online, but it is on Amazon:


Firearms Assembly: The NRA Guide to Rifles and Shotguns, Revised and Expanded Edition Paperback – June 1, 1993
by Joseph Boxley Roberts (Editor)
4.6 out of 5 stars 15 ratings
See all formats and editions

Paperback
$21.00
15 Used from $9.99 5 New from $44.00

Thank you!! I will look for it on Amazon.

[indian joe]

Sometimes it is not a good idea to be a kitchen table gunsmith... lesson learned the hard way

yer right but this aint perticularly helpful at this point..........................

[JoeJames]

yer right but this aint perticularly helpful at this point..........................No, but I reckon he ain't the only one that has kind of painted himself in a corner. I got in about the same situation with a 32 S&W HE, and had to get back to the books and figure it out. Sometimes you just have to hit the books until you understand how it all works and fits together.

[PerpetualStudent]

"The burned hand teaches best" ~ Gandalf

I did manage to fix it. It's all back together and seems to be functioning.

What I wound up doing to get the bolt forward was squeezing slowly but strongly the tang and the lever. That slow steady pressure got the bolt forward. Once there, I drove the pin out, removed the bolt. And did the assembly again from that point. The pin didn't want to go in but playing with some side to side motion of the lever it fell most of the way. I drove it all the way in this time. Checked function. And then kept going. It's all together again. Dry fire seems fine.

I appreciate the thoughts and advice. I'm much more familiar with how the internals of the rifle work now.Thank you all.

[Froogal]

"The burned hand teaches best" ~ Gandalf

I did manage to fix it. It's all back together and seems to be functioning.

What I wound up doing to get the bolt forward was squeezing slowly but strongly the tang and the lever. That slow steady pressure got the bolt forward. Once there, I drove the pin out, removed the bolt. And did the assembly again from that point. The pin didn't want to go in but playing with some side to side motion of the lever it fell most of the way. I drove it all the way in this time. Checked function. And then kept going. It's all together again. Dry fire seems fine.

I appreciate the thoughts and advice. I'm much more familiar with how the internals of the rifle work now.Thank you all.

You tackled it yourself, and made some mistakes, but you learned, and you will be willing to try it again if needed. Pretty much the same way I do things.

[PerpetualStudent]

I've noticed in dry fire that the trigger is fine if worked immediately but if left cocked for several seconds and then pulled there's a tendency for the hammer to hang. Sometimes I can see a tiny movement, and then it hangs, and then drops.

Is this normal for the 92?

[Froogal]

I've noticed in dry fire that the trigger is fine if worked immediately but if left cocked for several seconds and then pulled there's a tendency for the hammer to hang. Sometimes I can see a tiny movement, and then it hangs, and then drops.

Is this normal for the 92?

Be a little more generous with whatever lube you are using. Both of my Rossi's like to run "wet".

[PerpetualStudent]

If it's not one thing it's another. I had to take it apart again to get part of a dowel out of the barrel. While it was all disassembled I put some white lithium grease on the moving parts. I had read this was a preferred lube for the rossis. Aaaaaand I hit a snag again.

This time the bolt locked forward. The bolt pin is out and doesn't want to go back in. But even with the pin entirely out of the firearm the bolt seems locked forward. Doing some research some people have had an issue with a smaller pin inside the bolt drifting out and that causing jams. I suppose that's possible. The ejector did come out of the bolt when I took it apart. But the collar, spring and ejector all went back together.

I'm not sure where to go. Using a fiberglass rod I know will fit inside the empty case in the chamber and using a mallet gently would seem the next step. But since the bolt pin is out I think I need to get that back in before I try that. Otherwise the breech will stay locked. I can attach the lower tang and hammer and trigger and they go together and work fine (better with the lithium actually). But this is how it was when the problem presented.

270855

I've got the bolt pin back in now but it is locked up tight.

[PerpetualStudent]

I have looked at https://www.rossi-rifleman.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6649
as the closest issue I could find. I tried the tapping with a mallet and that didn't work. I may try loosening the guides but I don't know.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

if I'm reading your problem correctly, the bolt is locked forward, but the cross pin that attaches the bolt to the lever is not in place? Assuming that the locking block is out of the receiver, the piece which rises to lock the bolt forward when firing, there should be nothing to prevent the bolt's rearward travel. A dowel down the bore against the bolt face and a good smack with a mallet should send the bolt backward in the receiver (and if you're not careful, onto the floor). As for installation of the bolt and it's cross pin, when inserting the pin through the bolt from the left side of the receiver you must maintain a strong forward push on the back of the bolt with your thumb of the off hand to align the bolt and lever holes. The hole in the bolt is a fairly close fit to the pin, so getting it in there can be a little tricky. I've ground some on a grinding wheel to taper them a bit at the edge so they'll insert easier. This is much the same on all Win. 92's and clones.
I haven't followed this thread until now. If you maybe have some wood fragments from an earlier dowel experience jammed in the works, then you'll have to completely strip the receiver again and start over. Clean any debris out and reassemble from the bare receiver up. The first thing to go in is the bolt, followed by the lever, and then connecting the two with the pin. I see you're talking about removing/loosening the guides. Leave them alone, as they only guide the cartridge into the chamber and have nothing to do with your problem.

[PerpetualStudent]

I did get the bolt pin properly in place. I'll remember about pushing the bolt forward next time.

Unfortunately the lever (and the locking lugs) won't go down at all. Since the pin that connects the two was out and the problem was still there I'm confident that isn't the issue locking up the bolt. Also when that was the issue there was a little travel in the bolt. This is locked solidly in battery. The locking lugs show a tiny bit of downward movement and then there's a click and the lever doesn't move.

It's possible some fiberglass fragments have gummed up the works.

[Old School Big Bore]

After all the ins and outs and ups and downs, I'm corn-fused. Have you bought Steve's R92 video yet? I've had 'real' 92s and 53s and B92s and 53s apart and back together for years. One thing I noticed on my R92 is that the bolt pin's serrations and the hole it's supposed to bind in got loose the first time I drove it out. After that I laid the serrated end of the pin on the anvil and egg-shaped it a bit, then when I drove it in again, it understood the concept of not moving. If you get it back apart and lined up, maybe give it a little stay-in-place persuasion.
I also noticed that Steve's tip to use a dummy round in the chamber to position the ejector/spring/collar prior to inserting the nose of the lever is a great idea. His video is a great investment - I used the action smoothing and trigger job info to slick up a B92 and B53. They were already nice, but the work improved both of them. Good luck with your R92.
Ed <><

[PerpetualStudent]

At this point I'm considering sending the rifle to steve to get it fixed, even with a year's wait time. I've tried to be as careful as I can be and I keep getting into jams. I thought after the first issue that I was getting to really understand the gun. I was planning on getting the DVD and slicking her up myself but my simple "slug the barrel and add some lithium grease" has resulted in a nonfunctioning rifle.

[Old School Big Bore]

You can get the DVD inside of a week. Worth a shot rather than committing to a year in limbo.
Ed <><

[Handloader109]

nra guide is worthless for this. Don't buy if you haven't. I've not taken mine down far myself.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[prs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkjP74rcR50&ab_channel=TargetSuite

Maybe this will help.

prs

[Denver]

Excellent video on You Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0r0l5MRNaU