Charter arms .44 SPL Q's

[wonderwolf]

I like .44 spl in my 29's and have been kicking around the idea of picking up a charter arms .44spl carry gun double/single. For use as a carry gun and something just to mess around with 44spl loadings in. I can't afford a Lew Horton gun or I would already have one. They look nice but at the cost of one of those I could buy at least 3 of these charter arms guns.

What length is the cylinder, I would like to use skeeter skeltons load of unique and a keith style in the gun but my fear is the cylinder could be short for a loaded round.

I know this is a carry often/ don't shoot so much gun but how many people actually go out and really shoot the snot out of this gun?

Would it be worth it to get the target version and have the barrel shortened up so adjustable sights could be had or are the fixed sights not that bad?....shame ruger doesn't make something in this package size for the .44spl :(

[leadeye]

I have an old Charter 44 Bulldog and you are right, it is a carry often and shoot rarely gun. The light weight and design don't make for pleasent shooting with heavy loads but mine has digested an lot of reduced loads with no problem over 25 years.

[JDL]

Yep, they were ment to carry and used only in emergency. Mine really hurts my palm, with it's sharp recoil, whenever I get much above 800 fps with 250 grain boolits. Naturally, not as painful when downloaded circa 600 fps. Mine has the wood stocks and I'd imagine that maybe the Pacmeyer rubber grips would be more pleasant.
JDL

[DanWalker]

Bought a new charter arms 44 this spring. Shot around 150 rounds through it and developed a TERRIBLE flinch from the sharp recoil. I was using 240's over mild doses of Unique, and it was just miserable to shoot for more than 3 or 4 shots in a row. Blast and sharp recoil made this probably one of the least favorite guns I've bought in a while. Sold it to a friend who wanted a gun to carry in his truck while he travels. I warned him about my flinch from it, and he just shrugged and said,"I flinch with everything I shoot, so I might as well have the power of a 44."

[Catshooter]

Yes, the Charter's cylinder is long enough for the classic Skeeter load. At least mine were, back in the '70s.

If I recall correctly the four inchers had an aluminum barrel shroud so shortening them is a little difficult. If you want sights anyway.


Cat

[sagamore-one]

I am on my third Charter bulldog 44. Yes I shot the first two to pieces, but it took several thousand rounds to do them in. My standard load was much too hot to list on an open forum. I currently shoot a 185 grain full wadcutter at around 800 fps. Any thing heavier than 200 grains shoots high.Does a great job on anything I hit....

They are a great carry piece. I kept one in my first aid kit for years.

[Ghugly]

1.588" is the length of my Bulldog's cylinder. My current carry load is a Buckshot hollow pointed Keith that drops at 240 grains over 13.2 grains of 2400. I was using 7.5 grains of Unique with the same boolit. Due to an inexcusable and embarrassing brain-fart on my part the Bulldog's strength saved me from 50 rounds of 250 grain Keith's loaded over 9.3 grains of Unique (way, way more than it was meant to handle and a really uncomfortable load to shoot). The Bulldog hurts my son's hand with heavy loads, so his hasn't had as many rounds through it as mine. For whatever reason, I seem to be immune to the Bulldog's recoil and have shot a lot of pretty hairy loads through mine. There is no noticeable wear on either gun.

I don't really know what "a carry often and shoot rarely gun" is. I have a lot of fun with mine and shoot it a lot. My son shoots his enough to keep the cobwebs blown out.

I've finally settled on a favorite range load for my Bulldog. I'm having the best time with that stupid little gun (my son just kind of shook his head in sadness and disapproval as I performed a little happy-dance at the range yesterday). I got one of the .44 Slim GB molds from one of the members here and have been slowly working up a load for it. It drops a 161 grain boolit from my alloy (about Lyman #2). Over 7 grains of Bullseye it goes supersonic and in fading light produces a ball of flame damned near a foot in diameter and easily a foot and a half long. Add the shock-wave, and the crack from going supersonic to that ball of flame and you get quite a show. The little .44 Slims are so light that there is very little recoil, the primers show a lot less flattening than even rather mild 240 grain loads, and the empties extract really easily.

My son was showing his Bulldog to a young police officer at the range yesterday afternoon and I wandered over and asked him if he would like to shoot mine. He was very eager to give it a try (good for him! People usually look at me with horror and clutch their Glocks). I told him that the little range loads put on quite a show but had little recoil. The look on his face told me he just wasn't expecting what he got when he pulled the trigger. He loved it. I stood there grinning from ear to ear. My son just gave out a disapproving sigh and shook his head.

[MT Gianni]

I have an older on in the 3" version and enjoy it. Pachmeyer grips and a recoil glove for range time are standard. I don't shoot Skeeters load in in but scale it down 0.5 grains. It is meant to pack and shoot not shoot and pack but I wouldn't give it up easily. Gianni

[bobk]

I had the 4" way back when, and finally dumped it. Had a set of Pachmayr's on it, so the recoil wasn't too bad, but the crane arrangement was downright flimsy. Eventually the hand would tilt the cylinder enough that the front of the cylinder would drag on the rear of the barrel. I gave up on it. Plenty of good .357s out there.
Bob K

[NoDakJak]

I have owned a couple of the Bulldogs and they just weren't any fun to shoot at all. My standard load was the 240 grain Taurus version of the Keith semiwadcutter. I had a friend that worked under narcotics and he came down to the house one night after being released from the hospital. He had been attempting to make a bust when the guy pulled a knife and came at him. He said that he shot the guy twice with his 25 auto hideout gun and the guy dropped the knife and proceeded to take his gun away and almost beat him to death. My friend said that the guy would have succeeded if he hadn't finally dropped him with a piece of 2" x 4". He said, Neil, I've got to have that 44 before I get myself killed. I told him that it recoiled bad but he insisted. A few days later he came back and showed me his new "Chiefs Special". He had traded the Bulldog in on it. When I asked him about it he stated that he would rather chance another beating from that guy than pull the trigger on the Bulldog again. I think that he made a wise choice. You need to have confidence in your sidearm.
For the last twenty years I have had the "Target Bulldog". The larger grip makes it easier to control but it still isn't any fun. I normally carry it with two shot loads backed with three modified 240 grain Keith slugs. I chuck the loaded round in the lathe and turn the nose off, back to the front drive band. I have never put any of those loads on target but they should certainly make good effective bedside loads. The shotloads are great. They just flat take the kinks out of any Rattlesnake. My other 44 was a Lew Horton special called the "Astra Terminator". It is a "N" sized gun with 3 1/2" barrel and "K" sized round grips. Another hard gun to shoot but I have taken scads of prarie rattlers with it and one coyote. I just bought the Lee, 200 grain, RFP to try in these revolvers Neil

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a Ruger BH in .45 Colt with a .45 ACP cylinder. The full house 260 GR LRN's have kinda lost their appeal as I pile on the years. The shorter, lighter and slower boolits from the spare cylinder are a hoot to shoot. I load them for my Taurus 1911 w 3.5 Gr of Clays topped with a 200 LSWC boolit and I get great accuracy with them in both guns. As the Ruger is heavier the recoil is minimal.

However I have another Ruger BH that really snorts, roars and throws out a long flame you can BBQ a small vulture on. It also kicks a mite but not really too bad, like a weak version of a .357. This is a 30 Carbine Ruger BH with a 7.5" bbl.

When that baby goes off it attracts a crowd real quick. Load up some 2400 or Unique over a cast boolit and it is fun. For a real treat I load the Holy Black with SPG lube and I also get a great cloud of white smoke along with jolts of thunder and lightning.

My dad had an ancient Smith 5 screw .44 Special with a 5" barrel. That thing was a tackdriver and beautiful with that old time great bluing that Smith did back in the 20's.

I learned how to shoot a revolter with that piece 10 years prior to becoming a LEO in NYC.

The training and shooting I did with the required M & P 4" .38 was a very easy for me but I did not like the crappie boolits we had to use. I pulled the powder and put in a healthy charge of Unique and it always got the job done.

Of course these rounds were never fired at the Police Range as the report was abnormal compared to the 750 FPS rounds everybody else used and I did not want to get caught. They were real anal in those days.

The load was kinda warm as I usually had to smack the ejector rod with a blackjack to get out the empties. If I needed more rounds than 6 I always had a "New York Reload" strapped to my ankle w/6 more.

[wonderwolf]

1.588" is the length of my Bulldog's cylinder. My current carry load is a Buckshot hollow pointed Keith that drops at 240 grains over 13.2 grains of 2400. I was using 7.5 grains of Unique with the same boolit. Due to an inexcusable and embarrassing brain-fart on my part the Bulldog's strength saved me from 50 rounds of 250 grain Keith's loaded over 9.3 grains of Unique (way, way more than it was meant to handle and a really uncomfortable load to shoot). The Bulldog hurts my son's hand with heavy loads, so his hasn't had as many rounds through it as mine. For whatever reason, I seem to be immune to the Bulldog's recoil and have shot a lot of pretty hairy loads through mine. There is no noticeable wear on either gun.

I don't really know what "a carry often and shoot rarely gun" is. I have a lot of fun with mine and shoot it a lot. My son shoots his enough to keep the cobwebs blown out.

I've finally settled on a favorite range load for my Bulldog. I'm having the best time with that stupid little gun (my son just kind of shook his head in sadness and disapproval as I performed a little happy-dance at the range yesterday). I got one of the .44 Slim GB molds from one of the members here and have been slowly working up a load for it. It drops a 161 grain boolit from my alloy (about Lyman #2). Over 7 grains of Bullseye it goes supersonic and in fading light produces a ball of flame damned near a foot in diameter and easily a foot and a half long. Add the shock-wave, and the crack from going supersonic to that ball of flame and you get quite a show. The little .44 Slims are so light that there is very little recoil, the primers show a lot less flattening than even rather mild 240 grain loads, and the empties extract really easily.

My son was showing his Bulldog to a young police officer at the range yesterday afternoon and I wandered over and asked him if he would like to shoot mine. He was very eager to give it a try (good for him! People usually look at me with horror and clutch their Glocks). I told him that the little range loads put on quite a show but had little recoil. The look on his face told me he just wasn't expecting what he got when he pulled the trigger. He loved it. I stood there grinning from ear to ear. My son just gave out a disapproving sigh and shook his head.



Thanks! It seems like the opinion on these guns is like 80% dislike I'll hafta think it over a lot more
What barrel length are you shooting with and what is a buckshot hollow pointed keith?

[JesterGrin_1]

No I think most like them for what they are meant for. They are a small light weight gun meant for carry with good stopping power. Not really meant to go out and throw a 100 rounds down range lol. I call them OH SHEIT GUNS lol. If you have to use it that is what you are thinking. lol. :)

I have the BULLDOG for carry. :)

[Ghugly]

Thanks! It seems like the opinion on these guns is like 80% dislike I'll hafta think it over a lot more
What barrel length are you shooting with and what is a buckshot hollow pointed keith?

I have the 2 1/2" barrel. Buckshot is one of the moderators of this forum and is an artist at converting existing molds to hollowpoint molds. He was kind enough to convert an old Ideal 429421 mold for me. He did an outstanding job for litttle money and the mold drops beautiful boolits. I'm not convinced that a hollow-pointed 240 grain .44 would do any more damage than a non-hollowpointed 250 grain boolit at these velocities, but it looks intimidating as hell. I guess that's worth something.

[Bret4207]

I have 1 CA Bulldog and am looking for another. Mine is far more accurate than it should be, even factory holds 3" at 20 yards and that's with me shooting which isn't a real test of any guns accuracy! I have no qualms about them, provided you can look at the gun prior to buying. The newest ones I'm not familiar with, I like the old blued models. They are about perfect as far as I'm concerned for a truck gun, carry gun, farm and woods gun. They aren't so fancy or expensive you worry about mud and blood, they're dead reliable and they can handle most any sane 44 special load you'd care to use. They aren't a target gun and the quality isn't up to S+W standards, but then you aren't paying S+W price either. I'd have no hesitation suggesting you give one a try.

[Tom Herman]

Save your money and buy something better, no matter what it costs.
I also thought of picking up a Charter Arms. This was after I bought the S & W 624 6" bbl... I thought the Smith was [I]cheaply[I] built, then I actually handled a Bulldog!
Since then, I've grown to love the Smith, and hopefully will eb able to pick one up with a 4" bbl at some point.
The Smith is very lightweight (compared to my Redhawks), and the Charter Arms seems like half of the Smith... The 624 was unpleasant with the Skeeter Skelton loads, even with the Pachmayrs installed. I simply couldn't imagine running the Bulldog with a 7.5 grain Unique loading!
I share your sentiment on Ruger manufacturing a .44 SPL. I'd buy a .44SPL Redhawk in an instant!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom


I like .44 spl in my 29's and have been kicking around the idea of picking up a charter arms .44spl carry gun double/single. For use as a carry gun and something just to mess around with 44spl loadings in. I can't afford a Lew Horton gun or I would already have one. They look nice but at the cost of one of those I could buy at least 3 of these charter arms guns.

What length is the cylinder, I would like to use skeeter skeltons load of unique and a keith style in the gun but my fear is the cylinder could be short for a loaded round.

I know this is a carry often/ don't shoot so much gun but how many people actually go out and really shoot the snot out of this gun?

Would it be worth it to get the target version and have the barrel shortened up so adjustable sights could be had or are the fixed sights not that bad?....shame ruger doesn't make something in this package size for the .44spl :(

[Heavy lead]

Smith still make the 696? GP-100 in a 5 shot 44 special would be cool. Maybe with Rugers offset cylinder lockup notch they could use a 6 shot on the GP-100, that would be awesome in a 3" gun. Seems like this would work for sure in a 41 special.

[Ghugly]

Save your money and buy something better, no matter what it costs.
I also thought of picking up a Charter Arms. This was after I bought the S & W 624 6" bbl... I thought the Smith was [I]cheaply[I] built, then I actually handled a Bulldog!
Since then, I've grown to love the Smith, and hopefully will eb able to pick one up with a 4" bbl at some point.
The Smith is very lightweight (compared to my Redhawks), and the Charter Arms seems like half of the Smith... The 624 was unpleasant with the Skeeter Skelton loads, even with the Pachmayrs installed. I simply couldn't imagine running the Bulldog with a 7.5 grain Unique loading!
I share your sentiment on Ruger manufacturing a .44 SPL. I'd buy a .44SPL Redhawk in an instant!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

I guess we are all a little different. I not only can imagine Skeeter's loads in the Bulldog, I've fired 3 or 4 thousand of them through mine with no noticable wear on it or me. My son carrys his with the Skeeter loads but doesn't shoot them much because of the recoil. I also wear mine every day in an inside the waistband holster (in the summer, under a tee shirt).

Please don't misunderstand. I have had and still have a few Smiths (my personal favorite, at the moment, is a little .32 Hand Ejector that looks like it was built by a watchmaker). Compared to that, the Bulldog feels and looks like it was built in a boiler factory. If I break my .32, I'll probably burst into tears. If I break the Bulldog, I'll shrug and go buy another one. But, so far at least, it doesn't look like that is going to be a problem.

[Buckshot]

.............I've shot a couple Bulldogs. One was with factory (mild) loads and the other time was with the guy's reloads which were a bit stiffer then factory. Or at least the it seemed so but a year or so seperated the events. You put a big fat bullet like that in a revolter of that size and most any load that will completely eject the slug from the barrel will cause recoil. Ain't no 148gr WC in a K frame Smith :-)

A retired CHP friend has a daughter who is also a CHP officer and 2 Christmas's ago he'd bought her one of those S&W 357 hide-out revolvers made of scandium and titanium (or whatever). Two weeks later she'd given it back to him with thanks, but no thanks! He was laughing as he related the story and asked if I'd like to try a few shots.

I fired a cylinder full and my fingers were numb. It was like holding your hand out open palmed, and having a pro ball player smack it like he was swinging for the left field wall. It STUNG!

...............Buckshot

[EMC45]

You may want to look into getting a Taurus 44 SP. They make it in a snub and a 4 in. Fixed or adjustable. I had the 4 in Fixed and it was neat, but the forcing cone was rough and collected lead badly. My buddy has it now and said he'll never part with it. Also saw one in a pawnshop a few years back and it was the snub. That thing was big! I too have shot one of the ultra lightweight Smith J frames. Unpleasant! 38 Sp +P+ 158gr. Golddot. 5 was enough for me!!!

[Bret4207]

I've shot the Skeeter laod in my BD. No big deal IMO. I also have a Smith 24-3 Lew Horton Special. It's much more pleasant, no more reliable, a lot prettier and costs a lot more money.

To each their own.

[biggome]

My Dad bought a Bulldog back in the mid 70's when they came out with the big grips. It was the only centerfire we didn't load for so it was only shot with the weak factory stuff which was OK for what little is got shot.

When I inherited it in '94 a friend of mine loaded me up some Keith loads with all my saved brass which were way too much for me after a couple of cylinders full so I made him shoot the rest so I could get my brass back, he didn't complain though I could tell he would have much rather shot them up in his 44 Mag. had he had it there. I quickly got a couple of molds (240 and 214 grain) and some dies and went to work on a good shooting load.

When I slow my 240 grainers down to user friendly levels they start to keyhole even with some Pachmayr grips to soften the blow. I can get the 214 grainers to do pretty well though it is a round nose and I would much prefer a SWC or better yet a full WC of even lighter weight. That way I can slow a short, light boolit way down and still have target accuracy.

I would really like to shoot mine a lot more without beating it (or me) up. It is so far from a Ruger that I do worry about wearing it out with even factory level loads. The 44 Slim mold sounds ideal for such a lightduty application.

Paul

[Tom Herman]

I take my hat off to you for handling the Skeeter skelton loads out of the Bulldog!
That's the nice part about shooting and reloading: We can all shoot what we want to, and what we are comfortable with.
I enjoy midrange target loads: Not too hot, not too weak. I admire people that can take the full house loadings and do well with them!
And I share your sentiments should the Bulldog break: They are comparatively cheap so you don't shed tears should one break!
Best of Luck to you and your son!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom


I guess we are all a little different. I not only can imagine Skeeter's loads in the Bulldog, I've fired 3 or 4 thousand of them through mine with no noticable wear on it or me. My son carrys his with the Skeeter loads but doesn't shoot them much because of the recoil. I also wear mine every day in an inside the waistband holster (in the summer, under a tee shirt).

Please don't misunderstand. I have had and still have a few Smiths (my personal favorite, at the moment, is a little .32 Hand Ejector that looks like it was built by a watchmaker). Compared to that, the Bulldog feels and looks like it was built in a boiler factory. If I break my .32, I'll probably burst into tears. If I break the Bulldog, I'll shrug and go buy another one. But, so far at least, it doesn't look like that is going to be a problem.

[Ghugly]

My Dad bought a Bulldog back in the mid 70's when they came out with the big grips. It was the only centerfire we didn't load for so it was only shot with the weak factory stuff which was OK for what little is got shot.

When I inherited it in '94 a friend of mine loaded me up some Keith loads with all my saved brass which were way too much for me after a couple of cylinders full so I made him shoot the rest so I could get my brass back, he didn't complain though I could tell he would have much rather shot them up in his 44 Mag. had he had it there. I quickly got a couple of molds (240 and 214 grain) and some dies and went to work on a good shooting load.

When I slow my 240 grainers down to user friendly levels they start to keyhole even with some Pachmayr grips to soften the blow. I can get the 214 grainers to do pretty well though it is a round nose and I would much prefer a SWC or better yet a full WC of even lighter weight. That way I can slow a short, light boolit way down and still have target accuracy.

I would really like to shoot mine a lot more without beating it (or me) up. It is so far from a Ruger that I do worry about wearing it out with even factory level loads. The 44 Slim mold sounds ideal for such a lightduty application.

Paul

It would take a pretty loose definition of "target accuracy" to include the Bulldog, even with supersonic .44 Slim boolits. But, they are the best I've found. 40 yards is the most that my pistol range offers and I can easily do deadly damage to a villain at that distance. It seems that the Bulldog's barrel likes velocity. I can, and do, get useful accuracy with the 240 and 250 grain Keiths but I have to drive them hard to get it. I tried the Lee 200 grain round nose, flat point with all kinds of powders and velocities and could never get it to shoot for spit. Damned shame too, it sure seemed like a good boolit for the Bulldog. I bought the .44 Slim mold from MDK. I've done a bunch of searches for it and hove found out almost nothing. As best I've been able to figure out, it was designed with the black powder shooter in mind as it has a huge capacity for lube. If anyone else is having luck with it, they seem to be keeping it to themselves.

[C1PNR]

I bought one of the 3" Bulldogs when they first came out. After shooting a box of factory, I started reloading my own.

That pistol weighs 19 ounces empty, with stock grips. I put on a Pachmyer grip and now load 6.5 Unique behind the 429215 @ ~ 220 grains.

That's light enough recoil with enough weight and velocity to do terminal damage at 3" barrel range.

It's my "Urban" carry choice. I have others that go with me into the wolf filled woods.;-)

[biggome]

It would take a pretty loose definition of "target accuracy" to include the Bulldog, even with supersonic .44 Slim boolits. But, they are the best I've found. 40 yards is the most that my pistol range offers and I can easily do deadly damage to a villain at that distance. It seems that the Bulldog's barrel likes velocity. I can, and do, get useful accuracy with the 240 and 250 grain Keiths but I have to drive them hard to get it. I tried the Lee 200 grain round nose, flat point with all kinds of powders and velocities and could never get it to shoot for spit. Damned shame too, it sure seemed like a good boolit for the Bulldog. I bought the .44 Slim mold from MDK. I've done a bunch of searches for it and hove found out almost nothing. As best I've been able to figure out, it was designed with the black powder shooter in mind as it has a huge capacity for lube. If anyone else is having luck with it, they seem to be keeping it to themselves.

I'm sorry for using the term "target accuracy" too freely without a footnote or some other clarification, the term has a far different meaning depending on the firearm being discussed. My 222 may someday only be able muster a pattern at 100 yards that would otherwise be a prized group at 10 feet from my 90 year old .25 ACP so I should keep it in perspective as to size and distance.

For such an arm as a .44 Special Bulldog, 5 rounds into 5 inches at 25 yards would be what I would call "target accuracy". All rounds are actually on target and not too terribly far from each other at a good "working distance" for what it is.

Though I don't carry my Bulldog, I would like to be able to expect the reasonable level of accuracy that a carrygun demands though target loads are rarely comparable with carry loads though they really should be.

With mine living in a drawer just to the right of my easy chair (loaded with super wimpy WW Silvertips), I hope I can come up with a similar shooting load for fun and practice to get it out of the drawer a lot more!

Paul

[Bret4207]

Aw jeeze. My memory tells my I was getting 2-2.5" groups at 20-25 yards with facotry stuff. Now I'm going to have to do some shooting to see if my rememberer is working right....

[sd5782]

I don't know why everyone insists on the Skeeter load with 7.5 of Unique. This is too stiff for the 5 shooters. Most loading manuals don't get near that stiff.
That load is OK for the 44 specials that are built on the larger frames, but for the Charter, Taurus, and Rossi 5 shooters I would stick with published velocities. That also makes these smaller guns fun to shoot; like a 45 acp that you don't have to chase brass for.
My Taurus 441 with 6 gr of unique is in the 700-750 fps range with 240 grainers and is very pleasant to shoot. Lighter bullets with 5.3 of 231 go about the same. Fun plinking that doesn't hurt.
I can shoot my SRH mag if I want more power.
I guess to each their own

[wonderwolf]

I don't know why everyone insists on the Skeeter load with 7.5 of Unique. This is too stiff for the 5 shooters. Most loading manuals don't get near that stiff.
That load is OK for the 44 specials that are built on the larger frames, but for the Charter, Taurus, and Rossi 5 shooters I would stick with published velocities. That also makes these smaller guns fun to shoot; like a 45 acp that you don't have to chase brass for.
My Taurus 441 with 6 gr of unique is in the 700-750 fps range with 240 grainers and is very pleasant to shoot. Lighter bullets with 5.3 of 231 go about the same. Fun plinking that doesn't hurt.
I can shoot my SRH mag if I want more power.
I guess to each their own


A 625 is well known for that :), As far as the 7.5 of unique with the 429421 its a proven load with lots of backers. Out of my various N frames it works very well. I'll just have to add up pennies and see if I can swing a Smith or not before long. :drinks:

I got a chance to take a look at a few genuine Lew Hortons this past weekend, but didn't get to shoot them. I think I'll ponder things a bit longer before laying any money down....

[sd5782]

The Lew Horton or the 696 44's would be very nice if affordable. I think the nicest thing about the 44 special is the way it shoots/feels in the mid size 5-shooters. If one is looking for an N-frame(large), and the Skeeter load, it would seem to be easier and cheaper to buy a 4" mod 29.
Before I found the used Taurus 441, I looked hard at the Taurus 44 mag Tracker, but be warned that the Keith bullet is too long, although I think it would work in Special cases.

[Bret4207]

I don't know why everyone insists on the Skeeter load with 7.5 of Unique. This is too stiff for the 5 shooters. Most loading manuals don't get near that stiff.
That load is OK for the 44 specials that are built on the larger frames, but for the Charter, Taurus, and Rossi 5 shooters I would stick with published velocities. That also makes these smaller guns fun to shoot; like a 45 acp that you don't have to chase brass for.
My Taurus 441 with 6 gr of unique is in the 700-750 fps range with 240 grainers and is very pleasant to shoot. Lighter bullets with 5.3 of 231 go about the same. Fun plinking that doesn't hurt.
I can shoot my SRH mag if I want more power.
I guess to each their own

The Skeeter load isn't my favorite out of the BD, but it can work. I'm much more comfortable using a 200 gr FP at 8-850 fps. Someday I'll try some 180's too. All I was saying is too many folks have never given the BD a fair shake. It's a good deal for the price, and I love mine!

[Tom Herman]

The Lew Horton or the 696 44's would be very nice if affordable.

It's been a while, but when I researched .44 SPL's before settling on the 624, I learned that one of the Smiths (I think the 696) has polygonal rifling, which doesn't shoot shorter cast bullets well. That's why I elected to go with the older Smith with standard rifling... It works GREAT with my Lyman 429421's...
Hopefully soemone can jump in and confirm which model it is.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom