New to 38 Reloading

[TRSmith]

I recently got a Charter Arms 38 Undercover snubby, and I am looking to make my own reloads with a Lee Loader kit. I ordered some casted 148 grain SWC bullets from RimRock, and have some Titegroup and Accurate 2 powder. I want to reload VERY MILD loads to center-of-mass practice on a 30 foot target. I was wondering how many grains of these powders I might use, and how far I am supposed to seat the bullet into the brass. Please advise...:?:

[dannyd]

Go to Accurate web site look up #2 for full wad cutters (DDWC or HBWC)

[Kosh75287]

Unless you have a balance or electronic scale, you are pretty much constrained to whatever charge weight the scoop in your kit will throw. Don't worry, it'll be enough to do whatever you need to do.
If you don't have a vernier caliper, it may also be difficult to judge overall length. Try comparing your first few completed rounds against a factory load with a similar projectile. If you have a small bubble level, and the rounds are flat-pointed enough, you might try resting the level on the nose of the two rounds & see if the bubble goes drastically one way or the other.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Welcome to the Forum, TRSmith! Glad to have another aspiring reloader aboard. Probably the best thing you could do would be to buy one of the new reloading manuals. I started with a .38 Special Lee Loader back in 1966, and acquired a few more in other calibers along the way. The problem is that they come with some suggested loads and a powder dipper, but that dipper may or may not be appropriate for powders that they don't list and bullet weights they don't list, with much more information being listed in a reloading manual. Lee has their own reloading manual, "Modern Reloading Second Edition" by Richard Lee, and that's a good one to have. The information contained in reloading manuals doesn't really change, but they become a little obsolete with the development and marketing of new powders. There are also online reference sources like Hogdon's to find the best load for any given powder. Right now there is a powder shortage, but is you're going to load 148 gr. cast bullets, then 2.5 gr. of Bullseye has always been a good load. I hope you find the enjoyment and satisfaction many of us have experienced in creating your own ammo. Best wishes.

DG

[35remington]

Wadcutters usually weigh 148 grains. SWC usually weigh 158 grains. Which, exactly, do you have? This matters as overall length and load data are very different between the two bullet types.

[C.F.Plinker]

I don't know which dipper Lee includes with their kits these days. BE CAREFUL if it is the 0.3 cc dipper. According to the Lee manual this dipper will throw charges of Tightgroup and Accurate No. 2 which EXCEED THE MAXIMUM CHARGE for either of these powders.

These are double ended wadcutters. I doesn't matter which end goes in the brass first. Seat them until almost all of the crimp groove (that's the groove closest to the end) is in the cartridge case. Then crimp the case until you can see that a little of the case has entered the crimp groove. You want to remove all of the flare that you put on the case when you expanded it plus a tiny bit more. There will probably be around an 1/8 inch of lead sticking out of the case when you are done.

[TRSmith]

I have a digital scale, and the bullets have a lip the brass can't go beyond, so I figure you push the bullet up to the lip. The Hodgdon site suggested 2.7 to 3.3 grains of Titegroup, but RimRock said not to go below 3.1.

[TRSmith]

My SWC are 148, and shouldn't the brass come up to the wider edge that protrudes a bit as the bullet tapers to its flat "point"?

[TRSmith]

That sound helpful...thanks.

[Bmi48219]

I settled on 2.9 grains of Titegroup under a 148 grain HBWC to run through my S&W 52-2 a while ago. Very accurate to 45 feet and easy shooting. Bullet speed is 710 to 720 fps out of a 5” barrel. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison but should work fine for what you want.

[dverna]

If you do have a powder measure, you can make a custom dipper out of a .22 case and put a handle on it.

I have always seated WC’s so the crimp just past the shoulder of the bullet.

[tazman]

Here is a link to a great reloader and shooter's page where he provides some articles and data on the 38 Special as well as other things. The writer's name is Ed Harris.

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/backcreekdiary.htm

[Petander]

Here is a link to a great reloader and shooter's page where he provides some articles and data on the 38 Special as well as other things. The writer's name is Ed Harris.

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/backcreekdiary.htm

Thank you for this,very good read!

[35remington]

A 148 SWC is a bit odd as to weight. That weight is more standard for a wadcutter. If a SWC is what you have, and not a wadcutter, three grains of Titegroup makes a fine load. Actually that load works if you have a wadcutter as well. A wadcutter is crimped in the top groove and protrudes very little out of the case. A SWC protrudes notably. A wadcutter is shaped like a 55 gallon drum. A semi wadcutter is shaped like a cylinder with a smaller cylinder or tapered cone nose atop it.

Any chance you have a link to the exact bullet? Things seem a little vague.

[tazman]

Thank you for this,very good read!

You are welcome. I go back and read it over again every so often. Lots of great knowledge there.

[smkummer]

I shoot about 1K of double ended plain base wadcutters cast in a six cavity mold. 3 grains bullseye is a bit more than the 2.7-2.8 that many use but a female friend doesn’t complain shooting these in a lightweight colt agent 38 with full wrap around cobra wood stocks. Switching to 158 SWC and 4.3 grs. 231 doesn’t cause her to complain either. Wadcutters make such sharp holes on paper but a semi wadcutter does almost as well.

[TRSmith]

I recently got a Charter Arms 38 Undercover snubby, and I am looking to make my own reloads with a Lee Loader kit. I ordered some casted 148 grain SWC bullets from RimRock, and have some Titegroup and Accurate 2 powder. I want to reload VERY MILD loads to center-of-mass practice on a 30 foot target. I was wondering how many grains of these powders I might use, and how far I am supposed to seat the bullet into the brass. Please advise...

First off, thanks to everyone who sent me some info yesterday to my above post-it's all adding to my stock of knowledge.
To clarify: I do have a digital scale and so won't be relying on those Lee Loader measuring cups, and RimRock does indeed make a 148 grain, 38/357 SWC bullet.

New Question: Titegroup suggests a min of 2.7 and a max of 3.3 for a 148 grain LHBWC. Is the 2.7 load a "low normal" or is it a very wimpy load? More precisely, can I go a bit below 2.7 to get even less recoil and whatnot and accurately hit paper at a self-defense distance of 30 feet or so? Do any of you shoot a 38 snubby at 0.2-0.3 grains less than the manufacturers minimum of any powder?

[35remington]

One of the challenges to very light loads is consistency. The shallow seating depth and low pressure of lightly loaded SWC’s makes higher velocity variations apparent, which is minimized when a more deeply seated WC is used.

And Titegroup varies at low charge weight/low pressures as well. In other words, too low will get nonproductive at some point leading to sooty cases and inconsistency with lightly loaded SWC’s.

Loading manuals often suggest minimums based on this sort of thing.

The HBWC can take a lighter charge than a SWC and maintain good ballistic consistency. Do not confuse WC appropriate charges with SWC appropriate charges. The different seating depth is why.

Yes I shoot a little lower than some listed charges with light loads but after extensive trials prefer a wadcutter when doing so.

[tazman]

Not certain if this will help.
I use 2.8 of Titegroup under a 125 grain RNFP for a very light, very accurate practice load. It is about like shooting a 22lr.
The point of impact matches the full power 38 special 150-158 grain boolit loads in my revolver, one of which is a 3 inch model 60 Smith.
This load is substantially under the suggested starting load(4.3 of Titegroup) on the Hodgdon data site.

[TRSmith]

So could using a couple of tenths below the manufacturer's recommended minimum cause any issue besides lousy accuracy? Could the SWC get stuck in the barrel or something?

[TRSmith]

Do you think a Titegroup measure of the minimum 2.7 grains would be OK with the SWC bullet style?

[35remington]

If a lead bullet is used velocity must get very low before a bullet will stick in a short barrel.

[TRSmith]

The bullet is from RimRock, $59 for 900...

.38 SWC 148 gr. per 900 (sized .358)
OAL 0.716, Meplat 0.134, Nose to crimp groove 0.346

I am still curious if manufacturer minimums are generally really wimpy or just the low side of normal.

[Wayne Smith]

Invest in a reloading manual. I would suggest the Lyman 50th as a good beginning. You will get a good primer on the reloading process, some articles about reloading subjects, ballistic information, and loads of tested data. Most of your questions will be answered simply by reading this manual. I'm 67 years old, have been reloading since I was 16, and just downloaded another reloading manual on my Kindle. You can't get too much information.

[35remington]

The loading manual minimums, as mentioned, are on the low side of pressures that yield acceptable ballistic consistency. That is why they stop where they do.

[35remington]

Why don’t you shoot their minimum listed load for the correct SWC bullet (don’t use WC data) and see what you think before doing anything else? Ultimately it is you that is doing the shooting.

A mistake you are making is using data for 148 grain wadcutter bullets and substituting a semi wadcutter without allowing for the very different bullet seating depth of a wadcutter versus a semi wadcutter. The semi wadcutter will get considerably less velocity with identical charges of powder, and the result will be less velocity and pressure than is listed for that load which is using a wadcutter rather than a semi wadcutter..

You might also test with powder near bullet and powder near primer and run that over a chronograph before making any final decision. Light loads with low loading density will show excessive variation when so tested, which is generally known as a clue.

Hodgdon lists 3.2 grains as minimum with a 158 SWC which is actually closer to the bullet you are using in terms of the relevant seating depth than the 148 WC data you were looking at. I have used 3 grains with no issues. Try that and go from there.

[FergusonTO35]

I recently got a Charter Arms 38 Undercover snubby, and I am looking to make my own reloads with a Lee Loader kit. I ordered some casted 148 grain SWC bullets from RimRock, and have some Titegroup and Accurate 2 powder. I want to reload VERY MILD loads to center-of-mass practice on a 30 foot target. I was wondering how many grains of these powders I might use, and how far I am supposed to seat the bullet into the brass. Please advise...:?:

2.8 grains of either one should get the job done just fine. Don't over think this, just find what your gun likes and shoot that. My fave snubby load is the Lyman 148 grain over 3 grains of Bullseye. Accurate, easy to shoot, and can penetrate surprisingly well for defensive use.