Deer hunting with an original 1873 44-40

[Joe C]

Hi

I'm going to spend a little of my whitetail hunting time this year with an original (1884 mfg ) 1873 .

Using a 30-1 cast 220 gr roundnose/flatpoint bullet Black powder load ,chrono around 1300 fps .

Just a curiosity question , if you had that perfect broadside shot , would you go for a shoulder shot . or place the shot
behind the shoulder just through the lungs ?

(Meat damage is not going to be an issue with a shoulder shot , not using a 300 Win mag ).

Given the velocity , expansion ,( or lack of ? ) with the 30-1 bullet , how do you think it will perform on a double lung shot ..

I know it will be a dead deer regardless , but in heavy cover with no tracking snow, and most times not that far to the neighbors property , just wondering .

thanks

Joe

PS this is not my first year hunting , that was over 50 years ago

[Outpost75]

The 30:1 bullet will expand fine at woods ranges, but in heavy cover with no tracking snow I would do the shoulder shot to anchor the deer where it stands.

[444ttd]

a perfect broadside shot, i would go for the shoulder. but(always but...) since deer are uncooperative, i go behind the shoulder shot. i have killed many deer with both(behind and shoulder) and the shoulders shot (i say both of the shoulders) are rare. i know only of guy(my dad) who killed a doe with both shoulders shot out(tc contender 14" muzzle brake in 7x30 waters with 115gr speer hp). we hunt in close cover were a 60 yard shot is long range. 30ish yards is more like it. half the time the deer only runs after the shot about 20-40 yards. the other half is drt. this goes for both behind or shoulder shot.

i only do bubba-up scientfik reeseerch. :killingpc

[versa-06]

I'm an old man & seen a lot of deer shot but only recall 1 deer making it 200 yds. with with a properly placed shot behind the shoulders in & out. That's pretty good odds to me & I don't like ANY wasted meat if I can help it. Anything can happen while hunting, rarely is everything the way you prefer it to be especially if a runner is a situation. I think Outpost gave a good opinion depending on your situation at the moment of the shot.

[versa-06]

444ttd; I wasn't duplicating your thoughts which I agree with, I was hunt'n & pek'n while you were post'n.

[smoked turkey]

I only once shot a small buck in the shoulder with a fast paced cartridge and honestly can't remember the caliber and if it was a boolit or j-words projectile. But I do remember it was a mess to deal with. It was a DRT alright, but I usually go for a behind the shoulder shot and expect the deer to make a mad dash for 35-45 yards before the oxygen and blood are pumped from the heart/lung area. Since I am a meat hunter, I greatly prefer the shoulder to remain intact and go for maximum meat. My hunting is on the home range and close in and tracking has not been an issue for me unless I bungle the shot.

[Castaway]

I’d do the double lung/heart shot. You do that and the tracking job should be easy and short. Even if only halfway through, the boiler room is disrupted. I’d be afraid a shoulder shot would have limited penetration after expansion of such a soft bullet and not provide a clean kill.

[Mk42gunner]

I'd personally go for the shoulder and try to break bone to anchor the deer.

Yes you might loose a little bit of meat, probably not much with your stated ballistics, but I would rather loose a few pounds of shoulder meat than the whole deer.

Robert

[Shawlerbrook]

I’ll side with the behind the shoulder, double lung shot. Better chance for a pass through and finding it in short order shouldn’t be a problem. I guess my long career as a bow hunter has influenced my thinking.

[smkummer]

Keep us posted. A 240 gr. 44 mag at 1600 FPS makes a “whomp” sound when it hits the deer. Yours should do the same with enough range to hear both the boom and “whomp”. Your bullet will most likely completely penetrate the deer. Dead is dead.

[DougGuy]

My first buck was a heart shot, he dropped SO fast where he was standing he bounced when he hit the ground. Then he stuck his head up and looked around trying to figure out what that loud noise was.

If I had a broadside shot with a 73, I would take a heart shot.

[Savvy Jack]

270119270120270121270123270122

25gr Reloder 7, 240gr Hornady LSW HP, 1,200fps. 10% to 20% more power than a 200gr bullet at the same velocity....a bit over-kill at 65 yards


As soon as the full shoulder was in view, I squeezed off the shot. The buck was hit just above mid shoulder and dropped straight down...he never took a step.

By now it is dark. It was time to drag him out and get him to the processor. Over the next few days the processor gave up looking for the bullet. It was obvious that it did not pass through but it could not be found. Finally, while processing the hind quarters, it was found lodged in one of them. The bullet had penetrated the shoulder, turned 90 degrees (from a broadside shot) and traveled down the spinal cord to lodge in the hind quarters....travailing about 24"...obliterating everything in it's path.

[Jedman]

You said if you had a perfect broadside shot, When I have that I aim for a golf ball sized spot where the top of the heart is. I know that sounds stupid but I can picture where that point is when looking at a deer at fairly close range and I have had many drop on the spot and some that went a short distance but it is a double lung shot plus sometimes complete destruction of all the plumbing going in to the heart. It has never let me down and if you have a calm deer and aim small for that spot you will have a clean quick kill.

Jedman

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Been firing off pre 1899 Winchesters in 44WCF with 220 grain 40-1 pushed with 3F for near half my life. Those slugs will go through alot of tough stuff and keep on going. 10 inches of live cactus root will not protect a 50 pound wild dog hiding behind it.
I still am a believer in busting the heart and taking a lung or both. But there is alot to write about being over 70 and not much enjoying crawling about on hands and knees looking under leaves for red squirts.
Bust a shoulder then take out the heart lungs and there is not much scouting work needed. Your load will handle it all very well

[koger]

Like stated in previous posts above, I am very partial to lung shots, due to being a die hard bowhunter of 30+ years. I have shot the hear out of a deer, and had them run 250 yds on adrenaline. Never had a deer make it over 60 yds, with a lung shot. I dont like to mess meat up either. Either one will do the job, but I would take a lung shot behind the shoulder.

[725]

I'm in the broadside group. When I can, I like to wait for the deer to start to take a stride, thus exposing the heart side of the chest. I've been lucky to have this present several times and my shots have been on the mark. Shoulder isn't wrecked, heart hit and both lungs deflated. I don't usually track too far. Day before yesterday in western Maryland, I took this shot and the deer didn't go 15 yards.

[missionary5155]

Of course it might also depend on what that corn cruncher was hit with.

[Jim22]

FWIW, an old timer once told me that the perfect broads de shot on deer type game is to shoot just behind the shoulder, aiming for the off-side shoulder. Admittedly you are not exactly broadside but the animal is facing slightly away from you.

[Savvy Jack]

Like this Jim22?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SqY3JJheNk&feature=emb_logo

[skeettx]

GREAT footage, the bullet sure did zip on through !!

You can even see the bullet/blast heading towards the deer :)

Mike

[rodwha]

Like stated in previous posts above, I am very partial to lung shots, due to being a die hard bowhunter of 30+ years. I have shot the hear out of a deer, and had them run 250 yds on adrenaline. Never had a deer make it over 60 yds, with a lung shot. I dont like to mess meat up either. Either one will do the job, but I would take a lung shot behind the shoulder.

I don’t see how this stands up to reason though. A deer without a functioning heart cannot push oxygen through to the brain, whereas a lung shot just reduces the amount of oxygen they can receive, and I can tell you as one who has twice had a lung spontaneously deflate that my oxygen levels, though unique, were still in the 98% range, and had everyone doubting a deflated lung as I could easily walk and talk, most can’t do either. So how would a deer with even just 30% do vs one getting nothing because the heart can’t work properly? I think your results were circumstantial.

[Joe C]

Hi folks .
First off I would like to thank everyone for their replies
Secondly , I would like to apologize for taking so long to get back to this thread. I haven't had much of a chance in the last week to get access to a computer

One reason for asking this question , was that I wasn't sure what kind of results I would get from this bullet .
It has a flat on the nose , but it is nowhere near the size of some of the wfn bullets I have .
Even at a 30-1 alloy I was not sure if it would expand at all on a double lung shot, and maybe just "pencil thru" the lungs without doing the type of
damage I would like to see.
I have shot quite a few deer over the last 50+ years and the lung shots worked well, but I was mostly using a high velocity round with expanding bullets.

I know that a double lung shot will kill the deer , but without knowing how much , if any, expansion I might get with this 30-1 slug I was concerned about how far a deer might run after being hit with this round.

again ,Thanks for all the responses

Joe

[Joe C]

Hi All

Just thought I would update this post .
I did manage to get a deer with the 44-40 last day of the season .
It was a small doe, but on the last day you can't be too fussy .
I didn't just want a deer , I wanted a deer with this particular 44-40 .
Like I mentioned the the original post, it was made in 1884 , and it would be real interesting to know how long it has been since it was hunted with .

As it turns out I did not hit it in either the shoulder ,or make a good lung shot on it .
The shot was only about 60-70 yds or so .
I didn't exactly have a "text book " shot at it, and either between me pulling it a bit ,or hitting some brush on the way to the deer the bullet ended up going through the liver .

The deer ran maybe 100 to no more than 150 yds and dropped.
It did leave a pretty good blood trail in the snow .

The liver wasn't destroyed , like it would have been with a high velocity round , and you could probably have salvaged some of it .

I was happy with the outcome , the old 44-40 with black power and lead bullet did its job, I doubt the deer actually ran for more than 10-20 seconds before dropping .

I don't know how long it has been since this rifle has harvested a deer , I believe it has probably been a " safe queen " for quite a while , but it will be back out again
this next deer season to try for Buck this time .

thanks

Joe

[versa-06]

Congrats on the deer! Glad you had a good result with gun, boolit & deer. As I said earlier (Post#4) we don't always get the shot we want, but we're thankful for the one we get. Now don't quit hunt'n take that fine instrument & create some coyote funerals.

[ChristopherO]

Very much appreciate the follow up report. And congratulations on the deer. Keeps this game engaging, doesn't it?

[pls1911]

Late to this thread, and congratulations on the deer.
The last thing most of us needs is another caliber.... I spent the last few years narrowing my component inventory.

Through unfortunate circumstances, in the collection bought as a favor to an old Marine friends wife, I should have a nice shooting 44/40 Uberti yellow boy, along with at least two new Colt SSAs (44/40 and 38/40).
I know the stash of brass, bullets, and dies (and likely molds etc too) is extensive (same for 38/40).
So, assuming I have the opportunity, next year's hunting will be 45/70, 44/40, and 45 Colt.. and of course 30/30.
All will get a workout on pigs and Hill Country rocks before then,

[M-Tecs]

I don’t see how this stands up to reason though. A deer without a functioning heart cannot push oxygen through to the brain, whereas a lung shot just reduces the amount of oxygen they can receive, and I can tell you as one who has twice had a lung spontaneously deflate that my oxygen levels, though unique, were still in the 98% range, and had everyone doubting a deflated lung as I could easily walk and talk, most can’t do either. So how would a deer with even just 30% do vs one getting nothing because the heart can’t work properly? I think your results were circumstantial.

Not going to try to explain the how's or why's since I fully admit I don't the why. I do know that I have heart shot deer and antelope that have gone way further than I would have believed possible with the heart destroyed. Back in the 70's when I started deer hunting I used a 30-06 with 150 grain soft points. After maybe 1/2 dozen animals that went between 250 and 500 yards missing there heart I went with shoulder or lungs shots. In maybe 175 shoulder or lung shots I don't every remember one making it a hundred yards with the exception of a couple of times I used bullets designed for much heavier game. They acted as FMJ's and I got very lucky I didn't lose them.