Zinc contamination with stick on wheelweights

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

I know about clip on zinc wheelweights, but I did not know about stick on zinc wheelweights. Somehow it never occurred to me. It should have.
I have been separating and saving my stick on wheelweights for 3 years and I had about 10 gallons of them. I do not have a muzzle loading firearm so I did not have a use for them until I decided to try a 50/50 mix of stick on wheelweights and clip on wheelweights. So I started melting my stick on wheelweights into ingots. My mistake was using two propane torches to melt the stick on wheelweights faster. I must have melted some zinc stick on wheelweights. I got all the signs of zinc contamination, but I did not recognize it because I had never had it occur previously. There was a mushy metal floating on the melted lead alloy. It was impossible to flux the alloy properly. When pouring metal out of the dipper onto the surface of the lead, it turned frothy. Bullets did not fill out well. When the lead level got low, the alloy turned purple. The most frustrating part was the spout freeze even at 850 degrees F. I would unclog the spout by heading it with a propane torch. That worked, but even better was to put a drill bit (held by vice grips) up the spout and turn it slightly. This always worked, but I could not keep the spout from clogging. Finally I realized what was going wrong. I decided to throw away the 40 pounds of zinc contaminated lead alloy. The bullet moulds cleaned normally. I cleaned out the electric furnace. There was a glob of metal on the end of the rod which closes off the bottom pour spout. I pulled that off with pliers. Now I know to set the electric furnace on 700 degrees F. and do NOT use the propane torches. I posted a photo of the zinc stick on wheelweights. All the weights in the bottom row have "Zn" in the upper right hand corner. The other weights do not. Yes I checked all of them with a magnetic and these are not magnetic. I can sort out the magnetic and zinc wheelweights before melting, but with the furnace set on 700 degrees F. and not using a propane torch, I do not have to worry about making a mistake.
10053

[grumpy one]

I think you may be underestimating the zinc hazard, though it is more troublesome with clip-ons than stick-ons. I find lots of unmarked zinc WW, both stick-on and clip-on, and I have melted some into pots of WW without the pot temperature appearing to go above about 720*F. Because zinc will alloy with lead, and the melting temperature of the alloy is below the melting point of zinc, dissolution (rather than melting) can be a problem. I've lost a couple of pots of WW that way recently.

I've only had the problem occur at 720-730*F, rather than 700*F, but if I were you I'd be reluctant to trust my thermostat that precisely. Furthermore I think zinc will disslove into lead at 700*F, it will just be a slower process than at higher temperatures.

Be afraid - be very afraid.

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

Years ago I tested if clip on zinc wheelweights will melt in my RCBS pro-melt with the thermostat set at 700 degrees F.
I tested:
1. let the zinc wheelweight rest on the surface of the lead for 10 seconds.
2. Use the dipper to hold the zinc wheelweight under the surface of the lead for 10 seconds.
3. Put in another batch of clip on wheelweights, melt them, cast into ingots and still the same zinc wheelweight had not melted.

Recently I tested if stick on wheelweights would melt using #1 and 2, but not 3.
I will give it a test. So far the 700 degrees F. setting is working.

[DLCTEX]

If you could retrieve the contaminated alloy, I would like to have it. I have reclaimed contaminated lead by reducing the heat slowly and skimming off the mush that forms on top. This doesn"t remove all of the zinc, but removes enough to cast perfectly good boolits for my uses. I have tested the boolits for maleability by hammering them on an anvil and firing them into various mediums and can not detect any difference from pure WW. It produces a boolit that looks like Silver.

[grumpy one]

My "test" (really accident rather than test) had the wheelweights heating unattended for half an hour, with nearly all of them already melted at the beginning of that period and the pot temperature initially at regular WW melting point of something under 600*F over a Coleman stove. When I returned the temperature had climbed to 720*F and the zincers had already dissolved. Hence it may take up to half an hour of immersion for dissolution to occur.

Most (not all) zinc stick-ons are painted, and the paint may retard the dissolution process. I don't know whether whatever did the damage to my pot-full was a clip-on or a stick-on. The very next time I smelted WW, the same thing happened again. Since then I've been much more attentive to what I put in the pot. I bend the suspect weights in the vise (look how culturally sensitive I am - I just used an American spelling!) Zincers are very difficult to deform and seem to snap rather than bend.

[grumpy one]

Dale, I've skimmed and cooled and remelted and skimmed some more. In the end I got to where the residue (I'd scraped off about 70% by then) looked like proper WW, but when I poured it into ingots the radius on the top edge was larger than normal. Since then I just toss the whole pot straight into the skip rather than waste time. I did keep a couple of ingots (marked "Contaminated") to use to warm up my impact test rig.

[Old Ironsights]

Contaminated alloy poured into catfood/tuna cans makes great doorstops... ;)

That's why I take the time to hand sort each bucket of WWs into Big, Small, Stickon and Crap.

[AZ-Stew]

I bend the suspect weights in the vise (look how culturally sensitive I am - I just used an American spelling!) Zincers are very difficult to deform and seem to snap rather than bend.

There's the best clue! A 12 year old school girl can bend a strip of pure lead stick on WWs with her hands, but the "zincers" (culturally sensitive spelling) are hard as a rock. I have a hard time bending the thinnest of them without resorting to tools.

Regards,

Stew

[shotman]

In the past [last year] I have gotten a few good deals on ebay[not anymore] but 2 of those adds of-- PURE WW -- were true but they were not pure lead alloy WW. they had zinc in the mix. I found that if you melt the ingots in the cast furnace and dont try fluxing right away the zinc will tend to float if you dont let temp get to high. I dont have any problem with boolits but making shot is a whole other game.

[Leadforbrains]

Hey Roger I have a question. What has lead ( no pun intended) you to believe that the unmarked ones are zinc? The reason I am asking is that I have some of the unmarked ones in my possession that are similar in appearance to your unmarked ones in the photo. I have already sorted through my stickons and thrown out all tne ones that are marked zn.
Thanks in advance for any additional info.
steve

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

LeadforBrains,
The lead stick on wheelweights are easily scratched with a thumb nail. The zinc stick on wheelweights cannot be scratched with a thumb nail. The zinc wheelweights are much more difficult to bend. Try dropping wheelweights on a concrete floor. The zinc will give a slight ringing sound, the lead will not. The zinc stick on wheelweights are look shiny and the lead stick on wheelweights are look dull. Try breaking open a zinc wheelweight and putting a drop of muratic acid on the exposed part. If zinc it will quickly form large bubbles of hydrogen. No smoking please. Also zinc wheelweights will not melt in my furnace (RCBS pro-melt) when the thermostat is set on 700 degrees F. True I did not test the wheelweights in the photo with all these tests. Most of the time I can tell by appearance of the wheelweights. If I make a mistake the electric furnace will not melt the magnetic or zinc wheelweights when set at 700 degrees F.

[Leadforbrains]

Hey Roger thanks again for the info. I have been fortunate so far. No zinc contamination as of yet. Informative threads like yours has helped me quite alot.
Thanks again,
Steve

[EchoSixMike]

I'm thinking the easiest way to sort out the zinc WW's will be chemically.

5gal pails seem to be the easiest, fill with water until amost covers all WW's then pour in a bottle of muriatic acid (which is hydrochloric acid). Let work for a few hours(outside obviously), this will generate hydrogen gas. After it's worked for a few hours, pour in a few boxes of baking soda to neutralize the acid and then drain. HCl + NaCO2= CO2+H2O+NaCl(salt) so no big deal as far as nasty chemicals go. Zinc chloride is a useful flux and is not particularly toxic either. Zinc WW's will be dramatically corroded and black in color, lead WW shoud be pretty much inert lead color with corroded clips and any steel clips.

Allow WW's to dry prior to smelting, or heat from top with burner.

People use muriatic acid to clean their drive ways, so I doubt there will be any huge enviro issue unless you have neighbors out to get you. S/F....Ken M

[grumpy one]

Quite a lot of zinc WW are painted. I'm not sure the HCl will cut through the paint coating - may depend on what kind of paint it is.

[copdills]

I have always used a thermometer and never go over 700 degree's when I am smelting and never had a problem pulling out the zinc that didn't melt, zinc melts at 787 degrees , ww's at 521 and pb at 621

[randyrat]

There is one more method that is 100% but slow. Use a hand held wire cutter and snip an edge of each one. Zink or iron WW you won't be able to score, lead WWs you'll be able to score. It's real slow but 100%. I just watch the melt and stir a little to spread the heat out evenly and scoup out zink turds and steal. My last batch of 800 lbs i pulled about a dozen zink and some steal.

[Chunky Monkey]

There is one more method that is 100% but slow. Use a hand held wire cutter and snip an edge of each one. Zink or iron WW you won't be able to score, lead WWs you'll be able to score. It's real slow but 100%. I just watch the melt and stir a little to spread the heat out evenly and scoup out zink turds and steal. My last batch of 800 lbs i pulled about a dozen zink and some steal.

I use this method as well as the drop test and haven't had a problem yet!

[Blackhawk Convertable]

You can sell the zinc ones to the salvage yard rather than throw them away. Might as well get a little money back for them, you know....

[mikenbarb]

Do a forum search for cannon balls because some guys here buy them to make zinc cannon balls with.
What I do with my ones in question is scratch them on my concrete patio. If it scratches its zinc and lead just leaves a streak.

[TexRebel]

keep your smelter below 700 deg and the zinc ww float to the top, if you do melts some zinc it to your mix , as long as it is less than 5 % you will not have a problem, some of the older loads called for 5 % zinc in the lead to make it hard, it just needs to be cast hotter

[nighthunter]

Lately I have been finding quite a few stick on WW's that don't melt with the rest of the WW's. If my WW's are up to temperature and the stickons are floating along with any clipon's that aren't melting they go into the pile of clips and dirt that surround my smelting set up. I don't need the aggrevation or the problems that come from zinc contamination. A few WW's lost are nothing compared to a 75 pound pot of good WW's lost because of trying to be that cheap. If it doesn't melt I toss it.

Nighthunter

[leftiye]

I melted a pot of wheelweights yesterday. There were zinc and steel wws in the bucket. I sorted first, but some got past me - unmarked, and looked just like the others. I use 600 degrees as a safety heat, and have no problemo. The lead melts, nothing else does. Use a thermometer IN the lead, don't trust your pot temp gauge.

[Brother_Love]

I have stopped fooling with the wheel weights. The only source I have is the scrapper and they are 70 cents a pound and they are not sorted for zinc. None of my local tire dealers sell or give them away, they re-use them. I started ordering my lead from John Walters and it is trouble free and makes beautiful bullets. It costs a little more, but there is no work except casting the bullets.
Malcolm

[j20owner]

I found some zinc stick-ons in my assortment that I've gotten form work. They look like the ones on the OP's post. I took a pic of them and will add it here. I think it's a good idea to have a visual reference available to help and try to weed out the zincers.
http://xaclan.com/Heinrich/heinrich/Gun%20stuff/DSCF0969.JPG

[part_timer]

I was sorting through the 2 buckets I got on Thursday and found some painted clip on WW's that were marked AL-MG. They "ring when dropped and wont bend without pliers. Aluminum???

[PatMarlin]

They probably are OK if you can scratch them with your nail after removing the paint. (Correction after I reread your post). If they were aluminum they would be real light compared to lead or zink even.

Set zinks inside the top of your radiator. They make a great sacrificial annode.

[OldBob]

I was sorting through the 2 buckets I got on Thursday and found some painted clip on WW's that were marked AL-MG. They "ring when dropped and wont bend without pliers. Aluminum???


I did a 5 gallon bucket yesterday and found about 10-15 lbs of these ( they were AL-MC or just MC) painted a silver gray. They would cut with pliers, but were hard and somewhat brittle. I kept them out and at the last end I melted them with about 5 lbs of soft lead...... cast some 358429's this AM and the mix worked very well, nice smooth castings, quite hard.

[badgeredd]

I was sorting through the 2 buckets I got on Thursday and found some painted clip on WW's that were marked AL-MG. They "ring when dropped and wont bend without pliers. Aluminum???

Mosy of the WWs I have gotten that "ring" were iron or zinc. If I use a magnet to check them about 60% have been iron but I also noticed that MOST of the clip-ons that are painted also had a rivet head type affair on the back side. Like said above, if in doubt, throw it out.

BTW save the zinc WWs like said above, right now scrap zinc is bringing a couple cents more than lead WWs at scrap metal yards. I've been saving mine and I want to try to melt them down to make zinc ingots for ease of storage and sale later.

Edd

[badgeredd]

There is one more method that is 100% but slow. Use a hand held wire cutter and snip an edge of each one. Zink or iron WW you won't be able to score, lead WWs you'll be able to score. It's real slow but 100%. I just watch the melt and stir a little to spread the heat out evenly and scoup out zink turds and steal. My last batch of 800 lbs i pulled about a dozen zink and some steal.

BOY!!! That is so simple and I am shaking my head here wondering why it hadn't occurred to me. GOOD idea RR.

Edd

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
This may sound crazy, but---
I just did 330 Lbs. of ingots.
Campfire, # 10 cans, channellocks, welding gloves, NO SORTING, Real long handeled cast iron spoon, tree branch stirrer/fluxer.
Big pile of clips , bullet jackets, & zinc/steel WW, dirt & ashes.
CHEAP--NO PROPANE, NO ELECTRIC BILL.
Seems to work.

[Ole]

I'm saving all my zinc weights. Someday I want to make a big cannon ball out of them.

:mrgreen:

[SciFiJim]

Ole, What are you going to use as a mold?[smilie=1:

[Ole]

Ole, What are you going to use as a mold?[smilie=1:

Drill a hole in a block of wood?

If I don't make cannonballs, plan b is to borrow some of my buddy's HCl and fizzle it away with pool acid.

[Brick85]

So it's safe to say that if you manage to keep your pot below 700 degrees you won't have to worry about zinc contamination?

Seems like sorting every weight by hand would be awfully tiresome.

I'm looking to buy a friend's propane setup, hopefully cheap, rather than buying an expensive electric pot (and having to use an extension cord outside). I figure I could put the pot over a campfire if I wanted to, as well. I suppose with a thermometer it would still be pretty easy to keep things at the right temperature even if I don't have an electric.

[mold maker]

Save your contaminated lead to trade to the scrappy for soft lead or WWs.
To him its "Mixed Lead" and is worth more than WWs. (because of the clips)
Race car crews can also use it (contaminated) as ballast to balance their cars.
If melting range lead, the jacket material is Red Brass" to the scrappy, just keep it clean. Even the dross is sell-able to the scrappy.
Be sure to ask him if he has any lead flashing, which is usually really soft lead.
Any lead that you can scratch with your thumb nail will likely work. Just keep different sources of lead seperate till you've proofed it.
Avoid lead objects that have yellow oxide or the tell tell blue color. These are likely contaminated.

[SciFiJim]

What would the yellow oxide or blue color indicate?

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Monday used campfire & made 150 lbs. of ingots
Wed. made 185 lbs of ingots.
Man I am sore.[smilie=1:

[Fugowii]

I melted a pot of wheelweights yesterday. There were zinc and steel wws in the bucket. I sorted first, but some got past me - unmarked, and looked just like the others. I use 600 degrees as a safety heat, and have no problemo. The lead melts, nothing else does. Use a thermometer IN the lead, don't trust your pot temp gauge.

+1. Works like a charm. Melted over 300 pounds of WW over the last couple of
days. I kept the temp at just around 600 and I was surprised by the number
of zinc and steel I had missed. I was using the visual and cutter method to try
to rid the buckets of the zinc. Some still got by me.

[fredj338]

+1. Works like a charm. Melted over 300 pounds of WW over the last couple of
days. I kept the temp at just around 600 and I was surprised by the number
of zinc and steel I had missed. I was using the visual and cutter method to try
to rid the buckets of the zinc. Some still got by me.
Only issue w/ 600deg limit is many of the pure lead stickons won't melt until they get above 650deg. Zinc still floats @ that temp.
I sort anyway, too much junk in the bucket to just throw in & smelt (I live in the city). You get where you can pretty much spot the zinz or steel wts. Any that you aren't sure of can be checked w/ wire cutters then all gets discarded. I still get the occasional zinc wt. into a smelt, but it's easily skimmed off.

[shooterg]

Out of curiosity I checked online for sources of new wheelweights. The d--n people are now selling ZINC COATED weights. So you could ding 'em with the side cutters but still be putting zinc in the mix - enough to matter or not ?

[techlava]

Please keep your zinc because every sea going boat needs huge amount as sacrificial metal to keep corrosion at bay. If you cast it into the right shapes you can get good money.

[sargenv]

In the past when I got a box of mixed WW's, I hand sorted them.. Stick on lead in one bucket, lead ww in another, and I got to knowing what Zinc, Iron, and aluminum weights looked like. The Zinc weights are larger for their respective weights.. and sometimes there are odd looking markings on them. I suspect some of these came off of BMW's.. I use side cutters to test each weight I had a question about. Lead crushed easily, zinc or other metal generally hurts my hand when I squeeze since it doesn't give at all. I found some lead weights that I thought were zinc simply based on size of the weight. I got curious since they seemed heavier than the like sized Zinc weights, used the side cutter trick and discovered I had more pure lead weights. I will continue to save any zinc weights I find.

[Stick_man]

Has anybody tried casting zinc into small round balls (buckshot sizes) for use with a wristrocket type slingshot? I would imagine that IF you could get a nice smooth fillout it would work pretty well in that application. Of course, it would take a whole lot of castin' to use up just a little of the alloy.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Stick_man you do know that they used to cast boolits out of zink, right?
And no I am not yanking your chain.

[SciFiJim]

Has anybody tried casting zinc into small round balls (buckshot sizes) for use with a wristrocket type slingshot? I would imagine that IF you could get a nice smooth fillout it would work pretty well in that application. Of course, it would take a whole lot of castin' to use up just a little of the alloy.

I have a .45 round ball single cavity mold. I will have to try that. I already have about 250 balls of pure lead cast up for just that purpose.

[PatMarlin]

Drop a chunk of zink inside your radiator, on top of the core. If the zink is painted, sand it or grind it down to bare metal. It works great and will save your core, plus what ever else that would normally corrode in your coolant system.

Take it one step further and add soluble oil to your antifreeze. It will also lube your water pump.

If you run a flood coolant system on your lathe or mill, drop some in that tank as well.

[Springfield]

So what exactly is soluable oil? Water soluable, I assume. Any brand names for us so it will be easier to find? Anything to keep my 200,000 mile Ranger going longer.

[SmuvBoGa]

Try using Ballistol - mix it with H2O & you got Moose Milk - great muzzle loader cleaning solution, doesn't hurt the wood, prevents rust, OFTEN keeps THE WIFE away.

[PatMarlin]

Ballistol is heavenly-

Use about 6-8 oz per gallon in your rad system.

I have done extensive machining comparisons with Ballistol and cutting/machinging oils and machine soluable oils, and Ballistol out performs in all areas of machining including turning, drilling, and flood coolant.

It also out performs Mobil Vactra way oil, as it is slicker and stays on the surface longer. I have completely detoxed my machines and run only Ballistol now.

I was getting sinus problems and skin reations to the other oils, plus the soluable for flood coolant leaves a nasty varnish when it dries. Ballistol does not and keeps everything shiney.

I spent days scrubbing and draining my tanks and resiviors on all the machines with Purple Power cleaner. Now they are all spot clean and running Ballistol.

Even straight as a drilling oil, it works at least 40% better than rapid tap and other toxic cutting oil I've been using over the years. Steel and aluminum.

[acemedic13]

I have been having a hrad time sorting the ww with zinc from those that are "pure" ww. I am quite sure that i have shot a lot of cast ww/zinc boolits. Other than obvious barrel damage, whats the big deal about it? I might sound naive and a little dumb, but I am just curious. there are a lot of schools of thought on this topic, and i am still learning here. I obviously wont have to worry about any of that until this deployment is over, but i would like to go home armed with the knowledge so I can hit with a fevered frenzy when I get home!

[JohnE]

Please keep your zinc because every sea going boat needs huge amount as sacrificial metal to keep corrosion at bay. If you cast it into the right shapes you can get good money.

what are the preferred shapes?

[willyboy]

Bullets.

[wistlepig1]

Dumb Question 101, is zinc magnetic? thanks

[azcruiser]

So is zinc bad for your barrel or does it just make ugly bullets .My pot get a lot of that blue green purple color floating around in it .Guess that i shouldn't be putting any of those new shiny Lincoln cents in my pot .Have been doing that to make the lead a little harder ?? should i stop

[David2011]

I got to knowing what Zinc, Iron, and aluminum weights looked like.

Sarge,

The weights I've gotten marked AL were not aluminum. They were plastic coated WW alloy and worked just fine. There's not much point in making lightweight wheelweights and aluminum is expensive compared to most other common metals.

David

[David2011]

So what exactly is soluable oil? Water soluable, I assume. Any brand names for us so it will be easier to find? Anything to keep my 200,000 mile Ranger going longer.

You wouldn't want to use soluable oil in your engine. Soluable oil is mixed with water to use as a coolant and lubricant for machining operations. It's the white fluid you see cooling parts on a lathe, milling machine or drill press.

David

[trapper9260]

I was sorting through the 2 buckets I got on Thursday and found some painted clip on WW's that were marked AL-MG. They "ring when dropped and wont bend without pliers. Aluminum???

I seen the being ask and the AL-MG is not be the make of the WW it is what type of rim it gose on and auto . I did a check on WW in the past to see what the writtien was about . ZN is zinc . but not all a mark .It depends on the maker of the WW. The orther Letters is like I wrote the typ of rim and auto they go on. I do the same as some post I slow melt the WW and the zinc float. I have not problem. Since I see to check the ones not sure of to use cutters to check I will do that also.

[sagacious]

Dumb Question 101, is zinc magnetic? thanks

Zinc is not attracted to a magnet.

[Eagles6]

I've always used side cutters. Zinc and steel are obvious. Run across some tougher lead ones but I throw them aside and smelt separately to test. Have never had a problem yet.