44Mag Bullet Fit

[Mal Paso]

Fit is King! Bullet diameter has been well covered but other dimensions affect accuracy too. Fit is important to Firearms and Bullet Mold Manufacturers too but not always in a good way. Ammo MUST FIT THE GUN! Forward drive bands on bullets get reduced (Elmer's Complaint) and cylinder throats get moved forward so the two can't interfere with each other. If you are looking for accuracy you might want the forward drive band Inside The Throat so there was No Jump to the throat or chance of misalignment. Lots of us have been happy with the H&G #503 with a little over .010" of Full Diameter Drive Band ahead of the case. There is now a Hollow Point that goes deeper with approx. .140" of Full Size Drive Band ahead of the case. The MP-Molds-Larsen-C432-250-RF. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?410509-Another-44-Hollow-Point Here are pictures of unsized dummy rounds (4325") chambered in an Anaconda, Redhawk and S&W 629 with throat marks at .08", .12" and .14" from the end of the (Starline) brass respectively. Throats are .4313", .432", .4313". I have several hundred loaded and will put them up against the #503s and 432-640s next trip to the range. Could be a winner.

[William Yanda]

Keep us posted.

[megasupermagnum]

I've tried various amounts ahead of the case. I size bullets to what I call a slip fit, meaning they won't just fall through, but don't push hard through either. With a Keith .100" long front band, cartridges always fall freely right into the charge holes. I've got another mold that is a tangential RNFP, very similar to the bullet you have pictured, except the front band as cast is .100" long. The thing is, the front band gets longer as you size it. When sized, that bullets front band is closer to .120" long. Those too will fall right in under gravity. I've also tried seating certain bullets longer, and find that around .140", the cartridges don't just fall in every time, and need a swipe of my thumb to seat. This is going to vary by gun, and by sizing, but this has been the case in 3 of my revolvers now. I think .100-.120" is the sweet spot. .100" should be slightly into the throat of most revolvers, as can be seen by seating an unisized bullet backwards with .100" proud of the case.

One design I've been rather proud of is the Accurate 31-148CG. You will see that I gave it a section of reduced diameter. These fall right in the cylinder. Upon firing, the bullet sets back, and that whole front section becomes the diameter of the throat. It is essentially a .220" long front driving band. These have proven exceptionally accurate in 327 federal. I've recently done a scaled up version for 44 magnum, and I hope they do as well.

[bluejay75]

Seems like we were looking for the exact same thing, good sir. And... if you have to go a little deeper into the case to get the fit in the cylinder correct, you have a good place to taper or collet crimp on.

[Mal Paso]

Seems like we were looking for the exact same thing, good sir. And... if you have to go a little deeper into the case to get the fit in the cylinder correct, you have a good place to taper or collet crimp on.

If your bullets are sized to fit the throats, there is no need to crimp out of groove. The lube groove is far enough back there is room to play and you can crimp however works best for you.

Thanks for Honchoing this mold. I think it was slow to run because there were other 44 RNFP HPs in production. Miha made a comment on the large number of different designs. The Terminator which was the last 44 HP to run has a reduced front band, maybe good for rifle but of no use to me. The Larsen was the one I wanted to play with. Thanks!

[bmortell]

what should i do in a 44 rifle that dont have a throat and just a taper to the rifling? should i try snugging the boolit up closer and deal with single feed from long length, cause im stuck at 4moa+ even though im sized right for the bore

[megasupermagnum]

what should i do in a 44 rifle that dont have a throat and just a taper to the rifling? should i try snugging the boolit up closer and deal with single feed from long length, cause im stuck at 4moa+ even though im sized right for the bore

Ideally you would have the rifle throated. I'm not sure if that is as easily done as with a pistol barrel though. If it were mine, I would try the bullet slightly engraving the rifling. If the OAL is too long, you can try a bullet with an extremely long front band, but that would be a custom mold.

[DougGuy]

I just got done explaining this fitment into the throats in triplebeard's thread, yes you get the best accuracy when the bearing surfaces/sides/front driving band of the boolit is centered by the throat.

However... Don't assign the priority to the throat diameter, assign the priority to the boolit diameter, that is the more important one of the two, then size the throats to half thou over boolit diameter. It's more important to deliver the boolit to the bore at the desired diameter, than it is to fit it to a throat that may not be large enough to do so.

[44MAG#1]

I think a test by someone who would do the test in a well informed fashion would be good. Say work up the best loads with each bullet variable and then shoot a couple 10 shot groups with each bullet and post the targets. No 3 or 5 shot groups. I feel two 10 shot groups would show more worth as far a showing what the bullets would do with all testing done at a minimum of 50 yards.
Then do the same test shooting offhand at say 50 yards and shoot 2 ten shot groups with each load and see if the most accurate load would makes a difference that would actually be called dramatic enough over the others to move the shooter into a level not yet achieved before the test.
It would be interesting to see the results.

[Mal Paso]

I think .100-.120" is the sweet spot. .100" should be slightly into the throat of most revolvers, as can be seen by seating an unisized bullet backwards with .100" proud of the case.

As I look at the SAAMI drawing there should be about .088" from the end if the cartridge to the beginning of the throat including the tapers. Only the Anaconda has that. In my guns, Ruger and S&W moved theirs forward of that as you can see on the unsized chambered dummy rounds. The Ruger throats start .120" ahead of the cartridge and the Smith .140".

SAAMI lists cartridge maximum and Chamber Minimum sizes so I guess the manufacturers are free to make the chamber longer. I just hate chasing throats. LOL

[megasupermagnum]

SAMMI is only a voluntary thing anyway, that's how so many rifles end up without throats at all. I've tried my two GP100's and one Redhawk, and all three seem to have the throat start about .090" past the case. I am checking this by seating an unsized bullet backwards, and leaving .090" proud of the mouth. I just tried another method of using a fired case, and an unsized bullet that tightly, but freely slips into the case backwards. I then slid the cartridge into my GP100 and used my thumb to fully seat the cartridge, and thus the bullet. Again I got about .090". One factor I did not think about was headspace. Using said GP100 and an empty case, I have .010" of headspace, meaning a .100" driving band would only be flush, not into the throat with the cartridge against the frame.

[bluejay75]

Did you make it to the range?

[Mal Paso]

Did you make it to the range?

Nope, work. After a totally dead third quarter I have work. Will try to get there after work tomorrow.

[Mal Paso]

It's a conspiracy. There were unbelievable production delays with the mold and then THEY closed The Range the last 2 weeks to prevent testing. Someone is afraid this bullet will upset the balance of power and lead to world domination.

Or it's just a lousy run of luck. LOL I've got a batch of water dropped Larsens now and I'll load some of those today. I have 100 air cooled over 10g of N350 to shoot against the 432-640 but the #503s with 20g of 2400 were water dropped so I'd like to shoot WD Larsens at that speed along with air cooled. I'm looking for accuracy not expansion.

[bluejay75]

I shot the MP 432-255 GC against the MP 432-250 Beartooth Clone as a plain base. I was shocked that the Beartooth Clone outshot the GC SWC by a full inch at 80 yards. And both were outshot by a 432-280 NOE WFN.

Then I shot the Hammer at 270 and the NOE 280 SWC and both outshot everything else. I’m confused now.

All loads were worked up and batch loaded. Was trying to see what was the best for pistol and rifle use. Best in pistol is the GC SWC. Best in rifle is the 434 Hammer.

[Mal Paso]

I got a chance to shoot the Larsen today. It was a nice day at the range both weather and people. They let me warm up on Steel while I waited for a paper target lane. I had no trouble with 2-3 inch targets at 25 yards. The load was 10g N350 for maybe 1000 fps. The deep hollowpoint is about 237g. They were hitting right where the full power 260g #503s do. I managed to flip 2 of those multi target "trees", I had just blown the top target of tree 2 out of it's socket when they called me for paper. Good time to move. LOL The gun is a S&W 629 6" half lug with a patridge front sight and a Rough Country rear that is locked down right where a full power #503 hits. I shot a 2" 6 shot 25y group right away. That seemed to be the limit of my shooting today with iron sights. I forget I don't have a chrony or a scope again yet. The guy 2 lanes down had Lab Radar, not a bit jealous, I spent that money on powder. I had 100 air cooled Larsen's over 20g of 2400 and I shot those at 25Y from the 4" Redhawk. The lube groove is small but there was no leading in the Ruger. The smoke is definitely less than the #503.

I like this bullet! I'll see if I can scrounge a scope.

[bluejay75]

Thanks sir!!! Will try the 20 grain 2400 load in my rifles.

[Petander]

Here are two MP 432-640 dummies loaded to touch the throats. I may try half a thou larger bullet... these are .432", my bore is .431" but everything is still in testing phase. These rounds take almost all of my 629 cylinder length. The third round is NEI 335 grain.

I'd love an NLG version of this MP mold, can't really crimp here in the lube groove I use NLG:s and collet crimp for 500 with a good success snug fit.

Miha is busy, does not even reply to NLG question emails so I'm looking somewhere else now, in terms if NLG. It's so good to be able to crimp wherever you like.

https://i.postimg.cc/tTKV1LfZ/IMG-20201117-113438.jpg

[Mal Paso]

Thanks, that got me thinking.

Early on I had a bullet pull (roll crimp) and tie up the cylinder so I've always used a firm crimp in the groove. Buffalo Bore uses a collet crimp for their heavy loads and I had no problem with those. I may just get a collet die. I'd like to seat the #503 .050" further forward to catch the throats of all my guns.

[bluejay75]

Collet die is worth its weight in gold. It’s the only crimp I use on full power ball powder loads. Made all my loads more accurate in 44 and 357.

[Mal Paso]

Is Lee the only one with a collet crimp die?

[DougGuy]

Buffalo Bore uses the collet crimp on the heavies yes. I use a modified collet crimp that works great. The thing with the collet is that the crimp band is too wide. I covers the end of the case mouth and then also crimps any of the boolit ahead of the case once it is closed fully. I mod them to make the crimp band much narrower, and I shorten the collet to bring it down on the case mouth where crimp is needed, and it doesn't crimp the boolit ahead of the case mouth where crimp is not needed.

Here is a thread with a lot of pics explaining the mod to fine tune the Lee collet crimp die:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315

I find that the collet crimp provides enough resistance to give the powder a tad bit more time to ignite and build pressure before pulling crimp, it cut down my ES tremendously and loads over the chrony were all 1180 - 1200, groups were shrunk appreciably because ignition became much more consistent than a roll crimp would provide. Load was the Lee C430-310-RF over 17.0gr 2400 in Starline brass with WLP primers. Alloy was cast as 50/50+2% but it scratched with a thumbnail very easily. Best hunting load I have ever shot out of a SBH, and had to regulate the rear sight with a belt sander and file a new notch in the center to get it low enough to shoot to the sights.

[Don Purcell]

Doug Guy, I've lived a sheltered life and have never used the collet crimp dies and from your photos of the crimp am I wrong in thinking that it would reduce the effect of slightly different case lengths? Different lengths would be in the .005 to .007 range.

[DougGuy]

Doug Guy, I've lived a sheltered life and have never used the collet crimp dies and from your photos of the crimp am I wrong in thinking that it would reduce the effect of slightly different case lengths? Different lengths would be in the .005 to .007 range.

It would certainly remove case length as a variable, yes. The collet closes from the sides, and if it's a few thousandths different it's still going to apply the same amount of crimp, where a roll crimp or a taper crimp will vary with each change in case length, shorter cases would get less crimp, longer cases would get more crimp.

[Don Purcell]

That's what I thought. A friend of mine loaded his ammo on Star reloaders and the crimp looked just like your photos and I assumed he was cranking down a hell of a roll crimp. For whatever reason I never asked him about it. Since he was using a Star with Star dies I'm curious now if Star had these or if he was like I said really cranking down on the crimp. John Ross may be able to clear this up but I believe I will order one of these to try and use your suggestions on modifications. Thanks.

[Petander]

Is Lee the only one with a collet crimp die?

Redding Profile Crimp is good too. It is tight though, made for j-bullet size ammo.

I'm using a Redding Profile Crimp for full power 500 S&W NLG (NOE) and 45-70 (MP) loads with NLG bullets.

Doug is right here with the modification,again.

[Mal Paso]

Thanks DougGuy! I have a collet die coming, How did you trim it? No lathe, I have a mini mill and a 6x48x9 belt/disk sander 36-320 grit.

[bluejay75]

Thanks DougGuy! I have a collet die coming, How did you trim it? No lathe, I have a mini mill and a 6x48x9 belt/disk sander 36-320 grit.

I modified mine with a disc sander in a drill. Doug Guy’s instructions were pretty easy to follow. I ruined a few cast boolits to get it to my liking. Lee collet is cheap enough that I bought 3.

I thought I was wearing them out, but from time to time spread the collets back out with a thin knife and they bounce back good as new.

[bluejay75]

271712

If you expand the pic...You can see that theres 4-5mm of crimp that goes up into the full diameter of the WFN Boolit. Sanded down it makes the collet thinner and it gives a clean crimp at the top of the case as in the SWC boolits on the left. I used Starline as a reference. So RP/ PMC brass crimps down on the case a little but still makes a solid crimp. And short brass, like the pile of GFL brass still scores the boolit. But not as bad as in the pic. I have a 1000 of those loaded and they shoot great. Thats the NOE 44 WFN 280. One hell of a killer behind 22 grains of H110.

Hope that was clear. Its hard to explain. But to save you some trial and error...dont set your modified crimp to your shortest or longest brass.

[Mal Paso]

Cool! I have a stationary belt sander that shapes metal just fine. I'm guessing the collet spaces off the shell holder.

[DougGuy]

Thanks DougGuy! I have a collet die coming, How did you trim it? No lathe, I have a mini mill and a 6x48x9 belt/disk sander 36-320 grit.

My first one I used a drill press with a big 3/4" chuck.

I do these in a lathe for customers that want to send them, only prob is min shop charge is slightly more than the die but you get back something you can't readily order online so, you pay only for the tweak really..


I'm guessing the collet spaces off the shell holder.

It does. All I require is a measurement from the top of the shell holder to the case mouth so you use one of your average length cases to measure from. I like to set the crimp band down just below the case mouth so there is an ever so slight bit of case mouth sticking up above the collet.

For a 44, I have noticed that a .432" boolit will sometimes shave a tad bit of lead in 4 places very very slightly IF it is a soft alloy, like scratchable with a thumbnail, harder alloys don't shave. Also, the collet is set for factory ammo dimensions, and it may force the collet open if you use .432" which is no big deal but if you push it all the way until the collet closes fully, it will crimp the dog **** out of the assembled round, it helps if you fit the collet in a lathe and open up the inside of the crimp band just enough so that when all 4 fingers are fully closed, it doesn't over crimp. Sorta like opening up a Lee sizing die .001" only a little more tedious to do.

[Don Purcell]

Doug Guy I received my Lee Collet Die yesterday and made up a dummy round with the #503 Keith at .432 and as you said it crimped the rear half of the front band down to .427. I tried to send an email to you but for some reason I have the worst luck on sending emails from this site to some folks but can usually receive them O.K.. Since you already have done this modification I would like to send my die you and have it done, I just need the particulars on sending it to you. Thanks, Don.

[Don Purcell]

One question I have is how the devil do you get the collet out of the die body? Is it pressed out? Didn't want to force it.

[DougGuy]

One question I have is how the devil do you get the collet out of the die body? Is it pressed out? Didn't want to force it.

The collet is easily damaged by trying to remove it. I use a pin that fits the bore of the shell snugly and drive it out. I put a Lee hex nut on the die shell and hold it loosely in a vise while I knock the collet out.

Look for a PM.

[Don Purcell]

Got it, thanks Doug. Will be sending my die next week. Thanks, Don.

[Petander]

For a 44, I have noticed that a .432" boolit will sometimes shave a tad bit of lead in 4 places very very slightly IF it is a soft alloy, like scratchable with a thumbnail, harder alloys don't shave. Also, the collet is set for factory ammo dimensions, and it may force the collet open if you use .432" which is no big deal but if you push it all the way until the collet closes fully, it will crimp the dog **** out of the assembled round.

Here we have a (Mihec #503) bullet, front band is .432" and base is .433". Cases were expanded with NOE .431". BHN ~13.

The left round was crimped with a stock Lyman Taper Crimp die, I like it for the crimp for mild target ammo but.. you can actually see how it squeezes the front... the bullet inside goes down to .4285" about. Coating gets damaged when pulled/fired.

To the right is a stock Redding Profile Crimp -round. I like that crimp too. This die doesn't squeeze the bullet as long way but it shaves the .432" front band most of the time. And the squeeze (down to .430") is enough to completely ruin your size and fit.

These dies work good but usually need mods for oversize bullets. Measure your ammo before and after crimping.

https://i.postimg.cc/B6z8YgMM/IMG-20201128-172256-935.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/TPVjyZ2g/IMG-20201128-171553.jpg

[Mal Paso]

I've been using the Hornady Custom Grade seat/crimp die, roll crimp. The Larsen doesn't have much of a crimp groove. I give it.036" crimp, about all it will take. The #503 will take almost .050".

[Petander]

I've been using the Hornady Custom Grade seat/crimp die, roll crimp.

I have a Lee and Lyman.

Lyman seater is tight, it often scratches a .432" bullet like the #503 front band here.

I have some fine tuning to do here - the whole 44 thing sort of jumped on me after a break and I like it a lot. Need to modify some dies etc.

https://i.postimg.cc/W3TWxFcx/IMG-20201129-164652-833.jpg

Some more room in that Lyman seater would be nice - my Lee doesn't scrape. But I like that lee for seating, I don't like adjusting dies back and forth ....so a dedicated crimper is needed... open up my Redding or Lyman hmm...?

I wonder what a cowboy die set would do? Size everything less?

https://i.postimg.cc/yNvp466d/IMG-20201129-150222.jpg

[Don Purcell]

Malpaso, It looks like the Larson has quite a bit of front "band" in front of the case to line everything up in the throat. It also appears to have increased powder room in the case as well.

[Petander]

Malpaso, It looks like the Larson has quite a bit of front "band" in front of the case to line everything up in the throat. It also appears to have increased powder room in the case as well.

Don, those two are the main reasons for my purchase. She just came in and is heat cycling now.

I'm becoming addicted to casting...

https://i.postimg.cc/QCH7QPX0/IMG-20201130-172028-569.jpg

[Don Purcell]

66 years old now and been casting since I was 9 years old. Guess I was addicted and didn't know it, just thought it was a way of life.

[Petander]

The stars were aligned good with this Larsen.

I made a tad harder alloy than usual, 16 BHN about, ended up with .433" bullets and a snug fit like this:

They won't push through by hand. They all stop at the same place.


https://i.postimg.cc/5yNZYng4/IMG-20201201-012932.jpg

Lots of sizing / coating options for my .4325 throats.

Getting the throats equal and right to the bore make life so much better. This is my first reamed 44.
I have a 500 with s great fitting 420 LBT, all by luck,it's never leaded with any alloy or coating. But if your brass is just a tad long it won't chamber.

[megasupermagnum]

Doug Guy I received my Lee Collet Die yesterday and made up a dummy round with the #503 Keith at .432 and as you said it crimped the rear half of the front band down to .427. I tried to send an email to you but for some reason I have the worst luck on sending emails from this site to some folks but can usually receive them O.K.. Since you already have done this modification I would like to send my die you and have it done, I just need the particulars on sending it to you. Thanks, Don.

I never have mine size down the bullet, so it can be done without modification. You simply can't use such a deep crimp. Back the die off 1/8 turn, and it will likely be ok. If you do want to use that tight of a crimp, then by all means, modify your collet.

The method to remove the colllet that Dougguy describes works. I find a much easier way is to thread the die upside down in a single stage press. I find a bolt or pin that just barely fits in the top of the die. I think I last used the head of an allen bolt, possibly ground to fit. I then use the ram of the press to push that punch into the die, and push the collet out the bottom. There is nothing but the spring tension of the collet holding it in the die, and they push out rather easily if using a press.

[Don Purcell]

I never have mine size down the bullet, so it can be done without modification. You simply can't use such a deep crimp. Back the die off 1/8 turn, and it will likely be ok. If you do want to use that tight of a crimp, then by all means, modify your collet.

The method to remove the colllet that Dougguy describes works. I find a much easier way is to thread the die upside down in a single stage press. I find a bolt or pin that just barely fits in the top of the die. I think I last used the head of an allen bolt, possibly ground to fit. I then use the ram of the press to push that punch into the die, and push the collet out the bottom. There is nothing but the spring tension of the collet holding it in the die, and they push out rather easily if using a press.

Thanks for the info and have made arrangements with Doug already to modify my die but will keep your suggestions in my microchip like brain. When I pressed against the collet piece it felt like it hit something solid so didn't want to push it with what I had to work with.

[Targa]

The stars were aligned good with this Larsen.

I made a tad harder alloy than usual, 16 BHN about, ended up with .433" bullets and a snug fit like this:

They won't push through by hand. They all stop at the same place.


https://i.postimg.cc/5yNZYng4/IMG-20201201-012932.jpg

Lots of sizing / coating options for my .4325 throats.

Getting the throats equal and right to the bore make life so much better. This is my first reamed 44.
I have a 500 with s great fitting 420 LBT, all by luck,it's never leaded with any alloy or coating. But if your brass is just a tad long it won't chamber.

Very nice! Looking forward to getting home to try out my Larsen.

[Petander]

I made a box of coated Larsens, mild loads without GC.

I did not size the .433" bullets,neither loaded to the max OAL yet, used the crimp groove and Lyman taper crimp which suits this small tiny groove very well,without squeezing the bullet. My Redding crimper can't handle a .433" bullet,scrapes and squeezes...

I also sized less than before,I let the Lyman crimper do the final sizing. Less back and forth work for the case mouth area this way, expander works less when you size less. No idea if it really matters but it feels good.

No leading at all. Smoke's excellent Carolina Blue.

https://i.postimg.cc/cCwDY6nM/IMG-20201203-152958-299.jpg

[Don Purcell]

OK, you guys broke me down and ordered the Larsen in 4 cavity brass about 30 minutes ago. Just checked the mailbox, not here yet.

[Targa]

Nice !! You’re going to be impressed by it.

[Don Purcell]

It looks like a winner and at 250 grains will be great all round bullet in my magnums and specials around the estate.

[Mal Paso]

OK, you guys broke me down and ordered the Larsen in 4 cavity brass about 30 minutes ago. Just checked the mailbox, not here yet.

Good for you! Without a group buy some designs will never run again. This is a good one!


It looks like a winner and at 250 grains will be great all round bullet in my magnums and specials around the estate.

I think an estate might require at least 2 bullets even a lower case estate.

Is there an archive of MP designs somewhere?

[Don Purcell]

Just received my order from Miha for the 250 grain Larsen .44 mold. Ordered it on Dec. 21st and got here today the 24th, three days. From Slovenia, incredible.

[Targa]

Yep.....mine took 3 days as well. If you think that’s incredible (I do as well) let us know your thought when you cast with it.

[Don Purcell]

Yes, I have MP molds for my two John Ross 5" .500's. The cavities are so beautifully machined you almost hate to pour lead in them but SOMEONE has to do the dirty work.

[Petander]

Do you people nose size for the extreme fit?

I noticed that some PC colours coat so thick that Larsens nose grows too large for my "new" Redhawk.

Smoke's Carolina Blue is just about a perfect fit,some non-TGIC -paints are too thick. Hi Tek is always thin and predictable.

I'm just about to order a PB Larsen... my 629 shoots a PC:d GC version just fine (for plinkers) without GC but Redhawk doesn't like that base shank at all.

These PB bullets are better.

https://i.postimg.cc/QdRBZwqX/IMG-20201225-150716-344.jpg

[Teemu]

Nice place You got there Petander. You can shoot 25.12 without problem. I wish I lived some place like that. Snow and all :D

[Petander]

You can shoot 25.12 without problem.

Make that 26 as well. Yep I live in Nowhere.

Gotta stay alert,the enemy often attacks on holidays.

Mihec 432-640 here,hitting that 75 meter bullet trap all the time when I do my part. Not a snug fit at all but it works...

https://i.postimg.cc/65GHr85Y/IMG-20201226-150040-712.jpg

Thank you for the Redhawk,nice Santa!

[Don Purcell]

Just finished my first cast with the Larsen. At 14 Bhn alloy it weighs 250 grains and .433 diameter. Perfect. Will try out next week hopefully.

[762sultan]

After reading this info on the cramer 250 I felt that I needed one. So I just ordered one...they have 3 remaining.

[Mal Paso]

I noticed the Gas Check 4c is sold out.

[Targa]

I believe this thread and Mr. Petanders pics contributed to that...:bigsmyl2:

[Forrest r]

FWIW:

I have a beater 629-4 with .4295 cylinders & the leade in the cylinders as already stated is pretty far forward. Years ago Brian Pearce did an article on this very subject when he was reloading 45lc's. His picture not mine, he wrote about moving the bullet forward into the leade for accuracy.
https://i.imgur.com/cXoGpNh.jpg

The .4295" cylinder holes are a plus compared to the .432" cylinder holes in a 29-3 that I own. Playing around with wc's in the 629 I get excellent accuracy with the type III wc's with the tapered noses. The bullets are crimped in their crimp grooves (200gr & 245gr). The strait sided wc's do better when they are seated out either into or next to the taper of the leade.
https://i.imgur.com/iMopAGs.jpg?3

Like others I have a lot of different 44cl molds and the issue I have is if I load the bullets long to get then to sit in the leade of the cylinders there isn't much left for case neck tension/crimping. Myself I try to have a minimum of the bullet's diameter in the case for neck tension/crimping. Most of my 44cal bullets don't do that when loaded long into the leade's of the cylinders.

IMHO:
Bullets with the smaller front drive bands tend to do better with seated back (freebore) from the taper of the leade's. Rounded shouldered fn/wfn tend to be more accurate when driven hard. I can only assume it's because in both cases there isn't as much distortion as the tapered bullets align in the leade's. It's actually pretty hard finding a bullet that's long enough in the body to fit into the leade of the cylinders of that 629 and still have enough left in the case for neck tension/crimp. The end result is either heavy long bullets or extra with wfn's. Those long bodied 220gr hbwc's do extremely well when crimped in the top lube groove. The nose of the hbwc has a slight bevel designed for a crimp but it also aids in aligning in the taper of the leade's. I made these home made jacketed bullets for the 629 and a 44mag contender. The top crimp groove is for the 629 & the bottom crimp groove is for the llllloooonnnnnngggggg throated contender (looks like 10" of throat & 4" of rifling when looking in that 14" bbl). The wfn nose is designed for the taper of the leade in the 629's cylinders.
https://i.imgur.com/QOZKxm4.jpg?2

Getting the bullets out into the leade's of the cylinders in nothing new, the long bodied bullets makes it a lot easier. 357mg's loaded with wc's.
https://i.imgur.com/h3YS3YJ.jpg?1

Testing loads for accuracy in a .432" s&w 624 using those 220gr hbwc's sized to .432"
https://i.imgur.com/VorIu2C.jpg

Between the pc increasing the nose diameter of these mihec 640's and crimping the bullets long/bottom crimp groove in 38spl cases. They have a good fit in both my 38spl & 357 revolvers along with limited distortion from the standard pressured 38spl loads.
https://i.imgur.com/AL4WBux.jpg

When loading the same bullet in 357 cases I still use the bottom crimp groove.

To me the issue with getting the bullets out there in the 44cal's is there isn't a lot left for case neck tension and crimping.

[Don Purcell]

Petander, I have been considering to try coatings and you mention that Hi Teck is "Thin and predictable". Is the process with Hi Teck the same as with the other coatings? You have said it doesn't really change the diameter of the bullet to any degree which would be very interesting when bullets come out of the mold at or close to the desired diameter. Thanks for any info.

[Petander]

Petander, I have been considering to try coatings and you mention that Hi Teck is "Thin and predictable". Is the process with Hi Teck the same as with the other coatings? You have said it doesn't really change the diameter of the bullet to any degree which would be very interesting when bullets come out of the mold at or close to the desired diameter. Thanks for any info.

Don, you may want to take a look at the giant Hi Tek thread and post there. Hi Tek is not PC, it's applied in liquid form , then let the bullets dry, then bake.

Hi Tek adds about .001" with two coats. It's always the same because the recipe is always the same. I find my PC varies quite a bit especially between different powders/colours,no matter what.

Smoke's Carolina Blue looks very repeatable and can be coated quite thin when you weigh powder and bullets every time.

[Don Purcell]

OK, thanks, will check it out.

[Petander]

It's nice to have different coating options to fine tune bullet / cartridge fit.

Is anyone nose sizing 44's?

[Forrest r]

yup made 2 different nose sizing dies.

1 for a 450 lymn sizer

1 for herter's 9-ton swaging press

[Petander]

I wonder how NOE nose sizers work with coated bullets...?

Any scraping or do they just swage when done right?

[Mal Paso]

I wonder how NOE nose sizers work with coated bullets...?

Any scraping or do they just swage when done right?

I don't understand why you would size just the nose. Wouldn't that leave the tail of the bullet larger than the throats? I size the whole length of the bullet to the diameter of the throats. I've also tailored the brass sizing dies to match .4313 bullets.

[Petander]

I don't understand why you would size just the nose. Wouldn't that leave the tail of the bullet larger than the throats? I size the whole length of the bullet to the diameter of the throats. I've also tailored the brass sizing dies to match .4313 bullets.

Some PC can get a bit too thick. Body sizing won't fix the oversize nose, think MP Larsen for example.

By sizing the nose down a bit they chamber again, regardless of the body diameter,and you may be able to get a perfect fit that way.

Another good option is to cast and coat the perfect size to begin with - I'm there already with several colours- but I'm a hopeless tweaker... Always interested in making things more complicated than they need to be.

[Mal Paso]

I would like to test these bullets against each other and have gone as far as I can with iron sights. I've never had much luck with machine rests (ransom) for 44 Mag so I ordered a 7 power scope today. Also rings and a rail for my 6" Smith. Forgot to order sandbags. They all disappeared from the range with covid.

[Don Purcell]

Finally got around to loading some 250 grain Larsen slugs. My full load with the 503 Keith is 25 grains of 296 with CCI -350 Magnum primer. Measuring from the crimp to the base reveals at least an extra 1 1/2 grains of powder room to for the Larsen. I loaded the 25 grain charge and used my new Doug Guy modified Lee Collett crimp die. Hope to shoot and chronograph next week as this weekend is handgun deer season and don't want to be shooting back into my woods.

[Petander]

I loaded the 25 grain charge and used my new Doug Guy modified Lee Collett crimp die.

I got this when I ordered a Lee factory crimp die:

https://i.postimg.cc/SKfh5cJg/IMG-20210117-074045-514.jpg

The store said Lee only makes one. Well, a quick Google shows three different 44 mag Lee crimpers. This is 90863, collet is 90930 and taper is 90784.

[onelight]

Lee , in my imho made confusing goof when they labeled both the collet crimp and the carbide crimp dies "factory crimp dies" .
If you want to see if the carbide die is going to post size , load one and crimp with the seating die and see if the cartridge will slip past the carbide ring in FCD by hand if it will it's not post sizing. None of my revolver FCDs do with the diameter bullets I use.

[Petander]

Lee , in my imho made confusing goof when they labeled both the collet crimp and the carbide crimp dies "factory crimp dies" .
If you want to see if the carbide die is going to post size , load one and crimp with the seating die and see if the cartridge will slip past the carbide ring in FCD by hand if it will it's not post sizing. None of my revolver FCDs do with the diameter bullets I use.

Yes this may or may not work with .432". And very slight post sizing may not ruin my mild loads because... :

I have a strange way of loading MILD 44 mag, I only size the brass with a Lee sizer very little so that I hardly need the NOE .431 expander. Just so-so neck tension. I seat with a Lee and then use a Lyman taper crimp to size enough to chamber... it also taper crimps, obviously... yes there is springback risk but my last step is a little roll crimp with a Lee seater die.

This way the brass gets worked minimally and lasts forever.

My hot loads everything is tighter. I size and seat with Redding etc... Redding is generally snug tight, better for j-bullets.

I might replace that last crimp step with Lee collet like I do 500. 357 works fine with a Redding profile crimper. In 44 and 500 the Redding profile crimper scrapes my coatings.

So many sizes and dies to combine. And I have a Hornady 44 cowboy set coming...

[Petander]

Lee crimp is nice. But I'll cut the carbide sizer part out.

It didn't ruin my ammo but even with the small squeeze it is causing unnecessary bullet & case sizing / brass spring back / neck tension looseness.