Reloading primers with toy caps - results

[AndyC]

I decided to quantify the results of "reloading" a Large Pistol primer with toy paper caps obtained from Amazon.

I levered out the anvil with a small nail, flatted the firing-pin dent as much as possible by using a flat punch inside the cup. 2 caps were used per primer, cut out with a leather punch.

https://i.imgur.com/8eL2vhG.jpg

I then dropped the cap-primed cup into my priming tool, raised it up a bit and dropped the anvil into the cup - and gently pressed the primer up in place in the brass to let the anvil find its own center in the cup.

Case primed:
https://i.imgur.com/Xj39fSc.jpg


I shot regular Win LPP versus these toy caps a few weekends ago - load was 4.1gr Clays under a 230gr RN cast. Here are the chronograph numbers:

https://i.imgur.com/4hzbF3Q.jpeg


No failures to cycle or fire - but other than the obvious smell difference (caps are very distinctive), I did notice a very tiny delay between the click and actual bang, which I guesstimated at 1/20th second:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW01Zb8Ev_Q

So, I saved the audio from that video as an MP3 and opened it in an audio editor, Audacity - using that I was able to zoom in on the timeline and clearly saw the sound of the hammer-fall followed by a delay then the gunshot:

https://i.imgur.com/vUJFseq.png

0.04 sec delay = 1/25th of a sec, so I was close with my earlier 1/20th guesstimate.

In conclusion, this can be done if needed - not a quick method but it's doable.

[wwboolitmaker]

Man that velocity spread isn't much considering... Good work.

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[Iwsbull]

Thanks again and that is a real surprise. Wonder how it works with other powders.

[RyanJames170]

Still would like to know if the priming compound made for reloading 22LR cases by 22lrreloader.com is corrosive or non corrosive. Kinda wanted to try this out with that stuff if it is non corrosive.

[AndyC]

I'd treat all of it as corrosive - the caps I used definitely are. Not a big deal; scrub with Hoppes #9 as normal (same day if possible) and carry on.

[gwpercle]

That is a most interesting test . The results were surprisingly good and if this shortage continues might offer an answer . Several different types of caps are out there and more testing might reveal something we can easily use .

Awesome Job AndyC
Gary

[Darth Jäger]

Very impressive, especially the chrono results.

[AndyC]

Thank you - I'm hoping the info and numbers will be useful to someone.

[scattershot]

Great info, thanks for posting.

[tomme boy]

Use WATER first then clean as regular. Water is what neutralizes a corrosive compound.

[Rightbrained]

That was very interesting .
Back when I was a kid caps and cap guns were “ cool”.

[MUSTANG]

Love the detail Data and Analysis. May have to lay in a few cases of "Cap Pistol" caps in the future. Grandkids are beyond Cap Pistols; they are now into Pellet and 22LR when they come visit.

[rancher1913]

very good write up. one thing that you might try is to put a little black powder between the caps, will give it just a little more ummmph.

[lar45]

Very interesting test for sure. Thanks for posting the results.
I had an idea about the delayed ignition. What if you cut the caps out with a slightly smaller punch, so the spark could go around the paper faster. I don't know how large the spot on the caps are, or if they is feasible, but it might be worth trying to see if the delayed ignition would shorten up, or go away.

[Texas by God]

I love it when I learn something first thing in the morning. Good knowledge to have.

[Uncle Grinch]

Very inventive there. I like your ingenuity. I’m surprised caps are available on Amazon. Do they ship ORM-D?

We used to take several and lay them on a flat surface and hit them with a hammer. Not exactly safe, but back them it sure was fun!

[cstrickland]

well looks like I need to buy and stock caps before the great 2021 run on caps !! Hey maybe I can sell them for like $500 a roll !!! :kidding:

Nice work on this. I have seriously been contemplating getting some caps and trying this. I have also be looking at the primeall compound that is available. Now I have seen a version of this where two caps are used with a gun powder kicker in-between, it seem to remove the delay ( or at least the guy did not report any) , but If I recall the ES was like 150 for so FPS

[Hanzy4200]

Very cool. I posted a thread on this several years ago. I was a bit more sloppy and rushed, but even then achieved decent success.

[bedbugbilly]

Very interesting!

[ofitg]

One of our members named "Traffer" has done a lot of work with the paper roll caps - he prefers to separate the powder from the paper, so more powerful charges will fit into the same space - see post #10 in this thread -

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?335497-22-Rim-Fire-reloading-swaged-bullets&highlight=caps

[AndyC]

Oh, very neat - thanks!

For additional info, these were the caps I bought on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VN763XX/

1,200 caps for $6.50 (free shipping) - would make up to 600 primers ("up to" because you may pop a few accidentally). Very inexpensive and might be handy to keep on-hand just in case...

I sure hope the use of these doesn't become any kind of norm as it would, of course, mean that our country is going down the tubes - but rather have this ability in one's back pocket than nothing.

Also, I'm aware that others have done this before me and all due credit to them - I just wanted to quantify numbers, velocities, etc and make them public.

[kevin c]

Neat stuff, and thanks for the numbers and purchasing info especially.

I'm guessing the same could be done with small pistol primers, or is cutting down the caps to fit problematic?

[AndyC]

I haven't tried SP yet - I'll get to it at some point, but ex-wife going through leukemia right now cuts into a lot of my free time.

[sw282]

Good to know ammo is still available for my 1955 Mattel Fanner Fifty:Fire:

[Four-Sixty]

I did this with some 45-70 cases a couple years ago. I dropped a freshly primed case to the floor by accident, and the cap was set off. Yes, I had flattened the dent in the primer cup. So, if you go this route I would strongly suggest testing your primed cases for safety's sake.

Then, a couple years after the prior panic I bought a boat load of primers on sale. I still have a couple rolls of the caps I bought, but they won't be used for reloading primers.

[elmacgyver0]

The last time I did this was over 50 years ago.

[Markopolo]

i purchased a bunch of the german made "magnum" toy caps durring the last shortage. never did get around to using them, but they are sealed up.

[max it]

So where do you get toy caps these days?


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[ofitg]

AndyC - I came across a video on a different forum - the guy seems to be doing the same thing you are doing, except he is adding a pinch of fast powder (from a .22 cartridge) between the two caps. When he test-fires a shot with the re-cycled primer, it sounds practically instantaneous -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WRWpoJ_5DI&feature=youtu.be

[AndyC]

Thanks for the info :) He's using the same brand of caps - Super Bang - so we're comparing apples with apples.

You're right - while the audio isn't the greatest, I viewed it in Audacity and there's no noticeable delay between hammer-drop and ignition:

https://i.imgur.com/QmVI4AH.png

Seems like adding some powder between the 2 caps is a good idea.

[LouB]

Adding gun powder to caps

Anyone have any experience with what kind of powder and quantity to use between the two caps?
LouB

[charlie b]

There have been black powder folks using home made caps for many decades. Toy caps have always been the easiest way to go about it. And yes, there can be safety issues with them, especially in the reloading process. They are also sensitive to static electrical discharge.

[MUSTANG]

Seems Amazon has removed all listings for Caps or refill caps (for toy guns). There are one or two where one can get the "Plastic Speed Loader" style caps, not the Roll Caps.


Did find a source called Civil War Stuff that has Roll Caps in Stock, 1200 caps at $3.99 per roll plus $6.00 shipping (Ordered 6 rolls - still only $6.00 shipping for 6 pckgs of caps; they are fare on their shipping rates). In case someone is looking, and still not available on Amazon or other sites; The Web address is: https://www.civilwarstuff.com/product/roll-caps/


I have quite a few primers on hand for Rifle and Pistol; but decided to spend $30.00 on small insurance plan - besides I might try this technique for remanufacturing Primers just for giggles and bragging rights of "I have done that".

[gnappi]

Oh my... now the Dems will be going after toy caps, that link by the OP is already gone!

At a gunshow this past weekend a guy was selling 100 packs of primers for $25 and change!

[Texas by God]

I ordered from the link AndyC provided, and they came today. Heck yeah, 44-40 here we come!

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[yeahbub]

That was a well done test with impressively thorough reporting! Well done. With the willingness to go to the trouble you have, there are much better priming compounds/formulations online which are fairly simple and reasonably safe. In fact, I had a .pdf with half dozen or so formulas I found on a link someone posted on this site, IIRC. The one I was most intrigued with is a two-part compound which is unreactive when dry and non-corrosive. The two constituent elements are finely mixed dry, a small amount pressed into the primer cups and they are wetted with water, which activates the compound and causes it to become a solid puck by crystalizing action of some sort. Once dry and the anvils are in place, they're ready for use. As with many things, I plan to experiment with that once I get to the end of a list of to-do stuff which I haven't see the end of in a few years. But it's out there.

BTW, roll caps contain Armstrong's mixture which is definitely corrosive, but the corrosive elements are water soluble and should be removed with the usual hot soapy water cleaning routine used for potassium chlorate primed eastern bloc corrosive surplus.

Hey, I think I found that primer-making .pdf here: http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/homemadeprimercourse.pdf

[photomicftn]

The Super Bang roll caps can be found here, with plenty in stock at the moment:

https://www.tintoyarcade.com/super-bang-roll-caps-1200.html?search=super%20bang%20roll%20caps&description=true

[abunaitoo]

Interesting project.
I use the plastic cup caps for my Needle gun.
We used to call the paper shot.
I have to see if I can find some here.
If you can find them on evilbay, most sellers will just mail them.
That's how I got the plastic caps.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Suggestion, don't mix Armstrong's mixture dry. Wet each component till it's at least moist and ONLY then mix them gently together. Unless you like the stuff exploding in your face that is.

[frogcement]

I decided to quantify the results of "reloading" a Large Pistol primer with toy paper caps obtained from Amazon.

I levered out the anvil with a small nail, flatted the firing-pin dent as much as possible by using a flat punch inside the cup. 2 caps were used per primer, cut out with a leather punch.

https://i.imgur.com/8eL2vhG.jpg

I then dropped the cap-primed cup into my priming tool, raised it up a bit and dropped the anvil into the cup - and gently pressed the primer up in place in the brass to let the anvil find its own center in the cup.

Case primed:
https://i.imgur.com/Xj39fSc.jpg


I shot regular Win LPP versus these toy caps a few weekends ago - load was 4.1gr Clays under a 230gr RN cast. Here are the chronograph numbers:

https://i.imgur.com/4hzbF3Q.jpeg


No failures to cycle or fire - but other than the obvious smell difference (caps are very distinctive), I did notice a very tiny delay between the click and actual bang, which I guesstimated at 1/20th second:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW01Zb8Ev_Q

So, I saved the audio from that video as an MP3 and opened it in an audio editor, Audacity - using that I was able to zoom in on the timeline and clearly saw the sound of the hammer-fall followed by a delay then the gunshot:

https://i.imgur.com/vUJFseq.png

0.04 sec delay = 1/25th of a sec, so I was close with my earlier 1/20th guesstimate.

In conclusion, this can be done if needed - not a quick method but it's doable.

Nice experiment, it might come to this....

[shooterg]

Similar was done by a now-passed friend with the "white" part of strike anywhere matches - but those if you can find 'em are nothing like the old ones from back then. Guess the government thought they were too dangerous after the first 150 years of use....

[WheelgunConvert]

The German mfg. caps mentioned in Dr. Thompson’s paper can be purchased from Bass Pro & Cabellas in their toy section. WM, $tree, and the like don’t seem to stock the Un-PC items anymore.

[Castaway]

RyanJames170, the priming compound to reload 22’s is corrosive as it contains potassium chlorate. I’ve used it to make percussion caps and it works well. It leaves a reddish-orange deposit of salts around the outside of the cylinder and barrel and washes of readily with a little soap and water.

[trapper9260]

Have any one added FFF or FFFF black powder to the caps when you load them , I have and found it work on almost all but center rifle you need to have the powder to the flash hole.Uesd the German caps , Did try the ones from China there was not many good ones on the roll.

[HoustonMaker]

This is pretty slick. I appreciate the info!

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if these caps from BassPro work? They’re made by Parris Manufacturing in TN.

Thanks again!

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/parris-toys-cowboys-roll-caps-for-cap-gun-toys

[AndyC]

I'd sure try them :happy dance:

[MUSTANG]

RyanJames170, the priming compound to reload 22’s is corrosive as it contains potassium chlorate. I’ve used it to make percussion caps and it works well. It leaves a reddish-orange deposit of salts around the outside of the cylinder and barrel and washes of readily with a little soap and water.


Most of the Toy Caps use a Potassium Chlorate formula as stated in super small writing on the packages. This would make a corrosive primer similar in use through the 1930's. Proper cleaning after firing will remove the corrosive residue. Better a corrosive primer - than no primer at all.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

That was very interesting .
Back when I was a kid caps and cap guns were “ cool”.

Back when I was a kid we would smack a whole single roll with a hammer. My ears are still ringing.

[GregLaROCHE]

This is a very interesting subject. Hats off to you for the great documentation. Have you tried with more than two caps? Four or six, just to see the results?

[dondiego]

Back when I was a kid we would smack a whole single roll with a hammer. My ears are still ringing.

I did that in the 50's as well and do believe that I got some audio damage from it! Fun though.

[GregLaROCHE]

I did that in the 50's as well and do believe that I got some audio damage from it! Fun though.

As a kid, to get the best bang for buck, we would take a needle and carefully push it through the center of each one aligning each them, so they would be sure to go off all together. They did!

[Wolfmanjack]

You can use regular match heads along with red phosphorus to make primer compound. Where can you get red phosphorus? Right on the match box. The igniter on side the matchbox has the red phosphorus. Take a sharp blade and just scrape it off. Mix a tiny bit of the red phosphorus with crushed match head and fill up the primer cup. Adding tiny bit of fine black powder can help. It works very well and you can get matches anywhere!

http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/Homemade%20Primer%20Course%20Update.pdf

Link has all kinds of primer recipes

[PAndy]

I thought my brother invented the whole-roll-hammer method. Apparently not! It would wake up the neighbors.

[AndyC]

This is a very interesting subject. Hats off to you for the great documentation. Have you tried with more than two caps? Four or six, just to see the results?
Thank you kindly - I knew the concept worked due to those who did it long before me, but they never seemed to show actual velocities so I decided to do it this way.

4 or 6 caps, not yet - noobie shooters and my other experiments are keeping me busy. I'm not sure how many would fit in the cup - I think I'll stick with 2 caps and add a little powder between them next time to try and reduce the delay.

[10-x]

LOL, a buddy and I used 2 bricks back in 50’s( old solid) to set off roll(s) next to the country road we lived on. All those that stopped got to check for blow out. Even got a county Sheriff, once he saw no blow out he called us out of our hideout hole. He said no problem as he was laughing. Did it today end up in juve’ie hall? We even had a fake black snake we'd pull across the road, what fun.

[Oyeboten]

Very inventive there. I like your ingenuity. I’m surprised caps are available on Amazon. Do they ship ORM-D?

We used to take several and lay them on a flat surface and hit them with a hammer. Not exactly safe, but back them it sure was fun!

We used to use 'Greeny Stick-Um Caps" on the bottoms of our Teachers Steel Chair Glides...Hardwood Floors, and when the Teacher came in to the Classroom and sat down, "Bang-Bang-Bang!" or depending on how many of the four Glides got the Caps, Lol...worked great!

[TyGuy]

Using this thread as inspiration I just successfully reloaded my first primer! Ordered some cap rolls online and they showed the Super Bang brand mentioned above but sent a different brand. I tried 2 caps in a small pistol primer but no joy, just a click. Tried 3 caps and my boolit found it’s way down range, my brass jumped out and vanished into a pile of leaves, and the slide locked back on the now empty mag! It was dark by this point so I’ll be running some more tests tomorrow. Thank you for posting your research so that lemmings like me can shamelessly copy!

[AndyC]

Excellent :-D :drinks:

[AndyC]

Back when I was a kid we would smack a whole single roll with a hammer. My ears are still ringing.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/BT4ygwV9vgwAU/giphy.gif

[Abidingguy]

Hey, I think I found that primer-making .pdf here: http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/homemadeprimercourse.pdf

Thanks much! Like others have said, info and snap caps(!) serve as good insurance against what the new regime's policies will likely bring.

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[TyGuy]

Just went 5 for 5 on reloaded primers this morning. Clearly more testing is required (need to cast some more boolits first) but 3 caps seems to result in consistent ignition with the brand of caps I have. They are made by Replicas by Parris and are called Cowboys Roll Caps. They come in 2 packs of little 600 shot “barrels”. I have only tried them in small pistol primers for my Makarov. More testing to come!

[MUSTANG]

Tried to reload some Primers today with Caps and then Test in a .223; Tried 10 Small Rifle primers and was only successful with 8 primer "reloads". The anvils on two of the primers were damaged/would not seat correctly. I used a set of 1/8" hand held paper hole punches to cut the cap "Bubble" containing the primer element off the paper cap roll. Used two 1/8" caps per primer cut from the roll. The firing pin indentations were removed using a 1/8" pin punch. Most of the 1/8" caps were oriented with the blister facing the primer body. Placing these very small 1/8 circles into the Small Rifle primer cup is exceptionally difficult - particularly with my large hands on a 6'4" frame. I had one primer "Phssst" off loading into the .223 was - so reloaded it again.


I loaded the .223's with a jacketed 60 Grain bullet that I swaged from 22LR brass. For powder I loaded 26 grains of W748.

Bad news: only 1 of 8 Rounds ignited and fired. The round that fired had a noticeable delay, reminiscent of firing my 50 caliber percussion cap Hawken Rifle with Black Powder Substitute.

Good news: Did not chronograph the single round that ignited; but the feel was that it was similar velocity as with a standard CCI Small Pistol primer ignited round (despite the delay. The single round seemed to be accurate as it hit at 1 o'clock at the top of the 1" round circular bull I was shooting at (100 arcs). Rifle used was my wife Colt AR-15 with heavy barrel (Present for her during the Clinton Magazine Ban and AR Bans in some states). My real purpose in the outing was to determine if the Toy Cap Rifles would generate an adequate ignition to result in sufficient gas to cycle the AR-15. The one successful round cycled well and smartly ejected the brass. Encouraging that if I can master reliably reloading the primers - they should do well in the AR-15 Gas system. Obviously this is not an issue in the .223 bolt guns we shoot a lot.

NEXT: (1) Will orient ALL the CapGun primer dots "UP" as they are placed in the primer pocket. (2) Will try placing 1 or 2 flakes of Unique, or Red Dot, or Green Dot, or 700X between the two 1/8" dots of Toy Caps to see if that will reduce that Phsst - Bang cycle when pulling the trigger.
(3) Will explore and develop some new ideas on seating the anvil piece on top of the Cap disks. I seated them as described by XXX in post #1. I would rather explore some way that the anvil is securely seated before inserting the reloaded primer into the hand tool for priming the case. Too much wiggle and play, and use of a chop stick to ensure the anvil is properly oriented before squeezing the priming arm and hoping it all lines up and is seated flush for me. (4) Retest operations with the AR-15 to ensure no problems generating a reliable pressure to eject brass and cycle the next round using Toy Cap reload Primers.

[ofitg]

Mustang, here's an idea I've been playing with - place a single cap "dot" in the bottom of the primer cup, with the blister side up. Pour in fast smokeless powder to fill up the cup, then skim it off level/flush with the open end of the cup. Use a flat-ended 1/8" rod to compress the powder down slightly, so that the cup appears to be around 80-90% full. Next, add one drop of acetone on top of the powder. Allow 60 seconds for the acetone to seep all the way down through the powder, and then seat the anvil flush with the open end of the cup.
To seat the anvil, I set the primer on a block of metal and use my drill press (turned off, of course) to push a 1/4" steel rod down onto the anvil.
I have found that it takes three days for the acetone/nitrocellulose "goo" to completely cure/harden (it helps to leave a small fan blowing on it), and then the primer can be installed in the cartridge case in the normal manner.

[MUSTANG]

Mustang, here's an idea I've been playing with - place a single cap "dot" in the bottom of the primer cup, with the blister side up. Pour in fast smokeless powder to fill up the cup, then skim it off level/flush with the open end of the cup. Use a flat-ended 1/8" rod to compress the powder down slightly, so that the cup appears to be around 80-90% full. Next, add one drop of acetone on top of the powder. Allow 60 seconds for the acetone to seep all the way down through the powder, and then seat the anvil flush with the open end of the cup.
To seat the anvil, I set the primer on a block of metal and use my drill press (turned off, of course) to push a 1/4" steel rod down onto the anvil.
I have found that it takes three days for the acetone/nitrocellulose "goo" to completely cure/harden (it helps to leave a small fan blowing on it), and then the primer can be installed in the cartridge case in the normal manner.


offing:

Thanks for the process description. I will try this in the next few weeks as this is a winter project - have primers now; but if several of the staff at stores I shop at are correct - we could be a year out before we see primers returning to shelves if we return to "Normal".

To ALL:

When hammering out the Firing Pin indention on a small primer; it looks like the inside is flattened, but when viewing the outside there is still a slight firing pin indentation. Any observations on the processing of firing pin indentations? Using the flat pin punch I smack them lightly about 5 times; not a hard hammering. Any comments on how others are removing firing pin indentations?

[trapper9260]

This is pretty slick. I appreciate the info!

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if these caps from BassPro work? They’re made by Parris Manufacturing in TN.

Thanks again!

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/parris-toys-cowboys-roll-caps-for-cap-gun-toys

I say they should work for what I see on the link. they look like the ones of the ones made from Germany . Give them a try .

[trapper9260]

This is a very interesting subject. Hats off to you for the great documentation. Have you tried with more than two caps? Four or six, just to see the results?

I have not used more then one cap since I added the black powder as a booster . I also do it the same way with shotgun primers. Works with that too .

[trapper9260]

Mustang I use the flat punch that fit inside the cup and just hit it that you lucky to see the dent. also as for add smokeless powder ,I have not try that , just used the black powder that is FFF,FFFF , as for rifle I understand about shoot like a muzzle loader it is because the powder in the case is not close to the flash hole I found in the past when I tested on rifles . as for regular hand gun and shot gun no problems going off and shoot for how I load the primers. I will have to do some testing also with the smokeless powder to see how it works out also unless some one posted on there test before I do my .

[chickenpot]

Looks like jungle store nuked link to the caps... not surprised. I'll try out the ones from bass pro. I attempted this with straike-anywhere match tip material put into a paste then loaded into old primer. had consistent results with standard bullseye load in 38spl cases, didn't take any chrono data but they seemed normal, though I only did 5 cause it was a PITA

[TyGuy]

The ones from Bass Pro are the ones I’ve been using. Trapper9260 is correct, they are made in Germany and seem to be decent.

[oley55]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/BT4ygwV9vgwAU/giphy.gif

I keep waiting to see where/when the sledgehammer lands.

[Alferd Packer]

with so many reloaders of primers around,
now I wonder if I am buying reloaded primers at a gunshow????
Never thought I would be saying THAT!

[Four-Sixty]

I would like to explore making new primers. If someone would manufacture just the cups, I'd buy some for experimentation.

I know brass is harder than gildng metal, but a guy like Larry Blackmon has been making Gator Checks. How far off are we to having someone make and sell primer cups?

[jonp]

Use WATER first then clean as regular. Water is what neutralizes a corrosive compound.

Ballistol in water 1:10 or Windex and I'd clean as soon as possible

[Burnt Fingers]

with so many reloaders of primers around,
now I wonder if I am buying reloaded primers at a gunshow????
Never thought I would be saying THAT!

It would be easy to tell.

If there's a small mark left on the cup they are reloaded.

I'm surprised that many here are asking basic questions that are covered in the linked documents.

http://aardvarkreloading.com/primers.html

Take a few minutes and read through one of these.

[Scrounge]

Well, "hold my beer" as they say. Ordered some caps from Cabela's, should be here in 5-8 days. 1200 caps, in two rolls of 600, for $2.99 per package. We'll just see now! ;)

[ofitg]

After some more experimenting, I have settled on using a single "paper cap dot", then topping off the primer cup with a mixture of 2/3 potassium chlorate and 1/3 antimony sulfide. The powder can be pressed down slightly, and one drop of liquid binder (5 drops of clear nail polish dissolved in 1/2 ounce of Acetone) is added on top of the powder. It takes a couple of minutes for the liquid binder to seep down through the powder, and then the anvil is seated. I let the primers dry for 3 days (a small desk fan helps), and then they are ready to install.

These primers with potassium chlorate/antimony sulfide are more powerful than the "Bullseye" primers I described above (my 11-29-20 post), and they seem to be much more reliable - more than 100 tested so far, with no "duds".

[trapper9260]

If the caps are made in Germany you should be ok ,if made in China get rid of them they not worth it. When I first started to test with caps and used both and found the ones from Germany the best. I did pick some up at the Cabelas to see how they look and made and they should work , I have enough to hold me off a long time when if I run out of the factory primers . Ofitg where did you get the additives you stated from.

[ofitg]

Trapper9260 - I'm still using a one-pound bottle (about half-full now) of Antimony Sulfide I bought in the 1990's. According to the label, it came from a company called "CHEM-LAB SUPPLIES" in California.
For the past several years I've been synthesizing my own Potassium Chlorate.... but you can mail-order it from companies like Pyro Chem Source - they also advertise Antimony Sulfide (they call it trisulfide) -

https://www.pyrochemsource.com/Chemicals-A-Z_c_11.html

[MisterStyx]

Thank you for the link ofitg. I just ordered a pound myself.

When you clean you gun from these homemade primers, you have to do the whole thing in soap and water or just the barrel?

I don't mind hosing down my sig or my glock, but my python is another matter...

[Traffer]

Just saw this thread:
Yes indeed I have developed a way to do this that you guys would like to see. I thought I made a video of it a couple of years ago but couldn't find it on my computer so I just did a quick one for YOU guys.
Now I ask that no one will copy and post this on any public place like youtube. In fact I am going to take it down in a couple of days (maybe less) because I don't want it getting spread around. So if you want to copy it for your own use do it right away.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dezhasvk8l6mu3k/CapRemoval.mp4?dl=0

[ofitg]

I've been scrubbing the barrel with hot water, and using brake cleaner to flush out the other innards.... I guess I'm lazy.... I use an old cheap 9mm Star for most of my testing, and I don't worry about keeping it in "pristine" condition.

[Traffer]

Still would like to know if the priming compound made for reloading 22LR cases by 22lrreloader.com is corrosive or non corrosive. Kinda wanted to try this out with that stuff if it is non corrosive.

It's corrosive....not maybe as bad as toy caps or match heads but it is corrosive.

[Traffer]

More good stuff for you fellas:
http://www.aardvarkreloading.com/primers.html

[Traffer]

I would like to explore making new primers. If someone would manufacture just the cups, I'd buy some for experimentation.

I know brass is harder than gildng metal, but a guy like Larry Blackmon has been making Gator Checks. How far off are we to having someone make and sell primer cups?

Another project that I have not gotten around to is making the drawing dies for making primer cups. I know someone in a restricted country that has made that process AND the punch dies for making anvils. That's all you will find out here. BUT I also have made hydraulic Berdan depriming sets. Berdan primers are JUST A CUP...the anvil is in the case. Fellas SAVE your BERDAN cases....it's relatively easy to load/reload the primers .Edit: One of the difficulties in making cups (especially Berdan) is that the metal used is very carefully dialed in for the application. You have to start with the exact thickness of copper AND as most know copper has lot's of different hardness capabilities. Too soft and they will blow out etc.

[AndyC]

Watching the video now - downloaded it and thank you. You have my word it won't be shared.

[ofitg]

Traffer, thanks for the video, that's a nice technique for separating the "dots" from the paper. It looked like the roll was in the water approximately 30 seconds before you pulled it out again.

[Traffer]

Traffer, thanks for the video, that's a nice technique for separating the "dots" from the paper. It looked like the roll was in the water approximately 30 seconds before you pulled it out again.

Yes, I forgot to say but you probably realized that you have to do it right away before it dries out..Or you have to re-wet it so the clumps come off correctly. I could have soaked that one about 10 to 15 seconds longer.

[MrWolf]

Thanks Traffer.

[Traffer]

I have a compilation of accidents in history that happened with armstrong mix. It is by far the most dangerous thing you will have in your house. You MUST not put more than about 15 rounds worth in a container. I don't even put 10.
As I recall one incident was in London in the 1800's where it blew a building up. Unbelievable explosion. I will see if I can find that. It would be good to warn all the noobs playing with the stuff. I couldn't find the compilation so I looked on the net and found this, Not as many examples of accidents but a good article:
https://yarchive.net/explosives/armstrongs_mixture.html

[GasGuzzler]

Well, "hold my beer" as they say. Ordered some caps from Cabela's, should be here in 5-8 days. 1200 caps, in two rolls of 600, for $2.99 per package. We'll just see now! ;)

I had a hard time finding caps online yesterday but I finally found some. Today I checked Cabela's after seeing your post. 2400 caps for $5.98 + $5.00 shipping + $7.84 tax? Yeah, the tax is high because Cabela's added $84.00 in special handling charge. Their price this morning is $102.82 shipped for two packages of 1200 roll caps. I thought the $19.98 shipped I paid yesterday was high...

[Traffer]

https://youtu.be/KYySwlsqV5I

[Traffer]

I thought my brother invented the whole-roll-hammer method. Apparently not! It would wake up the neighbors.

When I was a kid we used to do the whole roll thing. One kid who wanted to join in the fun (8 yrs old?) got a box of 22 shorts out of his dads stash and was on the porch hitting them with a hammer. I will never forget. I guess the kids around here were just a little crazy.

[Goofy]

Apologies if this has been posted previously.


https://youtu.be/smtrbjBPFE8

[firewhenready7]

Awesome test with surprising results...I need to try this, I also see a toy cap shortage coming..LOL

[dougader]

Apologies if this has been posted previously.


https://youtu.be/smtrbjBPFE8

Is this stuff corrosive as well?

[ddixie884]

Good report. Thanx for the chrono data...........

[Scrounge]

I had a hard time finding caps online yesterday but I finally found some. Today I checked Cabela's after seeing your post. 2400 caps for $5.98 + $5.00 shipping + $7.84 tax? Yeah, the tax is high because Cabela's added $84.00 in special handling charge. Their price this morning is $102.82 shipped for two packages of 1200 roll caps. I thought the $19.98 shipped I paid yesterday was high...

I picked mine up in the store, and it was free of any hazmat fees. You might want to call their customer service number and ask them what they're smoking.

[Scrounge]

Is this stuff corrosive as well?

Per Traffer's post #82, yes. So far as I understand it, you need you use water (hot water was traditional for black powder guns, IIRC) as part of your gun cleaning process. Wash out the salts that form, before drying and oiling.

[MUSTANG]

Is this stuff corrosive as well?

Yes. See my post for ongoing experiments with this product: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?418245-Reloading-Primers-using-Prime-All-Mixture-(Testing-Results)

[Traffer]

OK, I am reposting the veejo on removing toy roll caps for BEST toy cap repriming of primers and Rim Fire cartridges:
https://youtu.be/5MRomp4wq28

[Doughty]

Any help on how to copy this video onto my computer?

[AndyC]

I use a Firefox add-on called "Easy Youtube Video Downloader Express" which adds a Download button by the video.

[fcvan]

I saw where a guy made a paper hole punch sized for the cap, left the paper on. He was using a 'tap-a-cap' to make percussion caps, something useful for folks who make their own powder, round balls, and don't worry about brass failing. My brother always said a flintlock shotgun and a percussion revolver would be his bet. One for table fair, one to keep unwanted guests from coming to a table not set for them.

We both have 1858 Remington copies, both still think a nice double flinter, one bbl rifled the other smooth would be the ticket. Happiness is knowing folks with those skills who are willing to teach, in exchange for learning from those who know what he does not. I have been playing with metal forging, forge welding, and many other things needed in a small community . . . you know the rest.

[Doughty]

AndyC, thanks for the help. I don't have firefox but got help here: https://www.techradar.com/how-to/download-youtube-videos

[AndyC]

Super - whichever method works best for you :drinks:

[roverboy]

Has anybody that has reloaded small pistol primers used 1 or 2 caps? I wondered would you need 2 in it or just 1.

[Mr_Sheesh]

You need enough composition that it fires on impact and generates enough hot fire/sparks to consistently fire your round; I'd start at maybe 5 and see if it fired quickly and consistently, or hangfired consistently, caps are cheap enough.

[Bruce A. Frank]

I'd treat all of it as corrosive - the caps I used definitely are. Not a big deal; scrub with Hoppes #9 as normal (same day if possible) and carry on.

The salts created by the combustion of the paper caps is corrosive, but like combustion of standard corrosive primers, the products are water soluble. Hoppes #9 is not designed to remove this kind of chemical. A hot water swab follow by thoroughly drying and THEN the Hoppes would be the best procedure.

[Liberty1776]

Late to this discussion, but very interesting. Excellent original writeup.

I was wondering why I have saved all my spent primers. Now I know.

I got into paper caps when I tried to make percussion caps for my Old Army.

As for pounding out the primer dimple, after removing the anvil, you might try tapping the dimple back using a punch designed to start roll pins. They have a tiny protruding nipple to center the punch on the roll pin.

You should probably have a set of these for normal gunsmithing needs.

286021

286022

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1007362114?pid=392639

[Idz]

I am trying out some new formulas (H42 & H48) for percussion caps without much success and found a box of percussion caps I made in 2015 as part of my post
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?274339-Guide-to-making-percussion-caps&highlight=percussion+caps
The caps still fired 100% with a 2 oz drop weight at 21" !
The roll cap technique seems pretty stable after 6 1/2 years. I must admit in my New Mexico basement I have the perfect "cool dry place" for storage.

[Shanghai Jack]

well looks like I need to buy and stock caps before the great 2021 run on caps !! Hey maybe I can sell them for like $500 a roll !!! :kidding:

Nice work on this. I have seriously been contemplating getting some caps and trying this. I have also be looking at the primeall compound that is available. Now I have seen a version of this where two caps are used with a gun powder kicker in-between, it seem to remove the delay ( or at least the guy did not report any) , but If I recall the ES was like 150 for so FPS

You joke now but . . .

I laid in a supply of caps, plus a supply of chemicals recommended in other threads over a year ago. Never can tell when primers will go missing right? It just so happens that I found my two old tap-a-caps for making percussion caps as well.

At the range last week I mentioned reloading primers and the guy I was talking to says "Everyone reloads, its just hard getting the primers." I reiterated to him that I was reloading primers and then using then to reload my rifle ammunition. He looked at me like I had three eyes. But then I was shooting rifle ammunition that only cost me cents to reload and he was shooting factory ammo at $30.00 or more for 20 rounds.

[Mr_Sheesh]

I'd like to try EPH20 but am not in a huge hurry for some reason LOL

[MUSTANG]

Winter is coming. Soon it will be time to resume experimentation with the Roll caps, the Prime All and load comparisons with traditional Commercial primers - and I too am thinking of getting correct chemicals for EPH20 as it i reputed to be "Non-Corrosive" where the Cpas and Prime-All is corrosive solutions.

I have sufficient Large and Small Rigle Primers; but am seeing the bottom of the shelf on Large and Small Pistol primers in the reloading shed.

[Mr_Sheesh]

EPH20 is high lead but no Chlorates. Just do NOT make it in huge amounts. I'd suggest making maybe 35 grams worth at a time. ~4k SPP worth, if you got all that to go off in your face you would NOT be a happy camper. I'm thinking put it away in 2, under 20 gram, containers. If you make a big batch of it all at once please PM me, and let me know how to stay 3-4 counties away from you!

[Idz]

I bought some Prime-All and determined the probable ingredients and approximate weight percentages of their mix.
L2=KClO3 powder ~325 mesh, 2 L scoops=3.4 gr =52.3%
L*= Sb2S3 powder ~325mesh, 1 L scoop=1.4gr=21.5%
S=sulfur powder ~325 mesh, 1 s scoop =1 gr=15.4%
S=glass+shellac powder ~40-200 mesh, 1 S scoop=0.7gr=10.8%

Tenney's book page 456 gives 50.54%,26.31%,8.76%,12.39%, and 2% shellac so that's probably what Prime-All is aiming for with differences due to small sample sizes and packing density of the powders.

The glass grit size is critical to making Prime-All work.

[AlHunt]

Still would like to know if the priming compound made for reloading 22LR cases by 22lrreloader.com is corrosive or non corrosive. Kinda wanted to try this out with that stuff if it is non corrosive.

It is corrosive, for sure. So are the caps.

Sti;; a good trick to have available.