Logan 840 10" lathe. Of any use for gunsmithing and general home projects?

[corbinace]

Logan 840
Quick change
10" swing
43" bed
flat belt
25/32" spindle bore
1-1/2"-8 x #3 M.T. spindle nose
Lever Turret, tailstock/turret
On legs with chip pan
595# plus three bins of steel that goes along with it.
A bunch of rests, dogs, chucks, spare three jaw and other stuff, no taper attachment.
Pictures look like a bit of rust on ways and in general. Maybe outside for a year???


This is on an online auction. Currently $170 with 1.25 days left.
It is also a 15 hour each way drive to pick it up. That is a net positive for me in these lock-down days.

What say you?? Can this be a good starter machine, that will also be of use to me if I last 20 years?

[john.k]

Sounds ideal for gunsmithing......i suspect the price will advance on the quote,though.

[JimB..]

I bought my first lathe to learn about lathes rather than to learn to use them. It was interesting tearing it down, replacing all the felts, chasing down worn and broken bits and tooling, and basically getting it back to new. It was not a good economic activity, but it was enjoyable and informative. I did actually turn a few things before selling it.

I wouldn’t buy an old lathe to learn about turning, you probably don’t know enough to evaluate the condition and then you’ve probably got 6 months to a couple years worth of work on the lathe before you really start learning to use the lathe. I’d suggest that you’ll be happier if you invest in some formal education first, then go looking for a machine.

[kens]

I have 9" Logan 9B-17. it has same 25/32 bore and 3MT taper.
with that spindle bore you are limited in the barrel work you can do, you have to insert muzzle into the bore and steady the breech end. you may or may not actually see any added length between centers because the turrett tooling takes up space.
Many parts are still available from Logan, and ebay.
as far as wear on the machine, look closely at the carriage ways near headstock, look for the inverted vee to be worn leaving a ridge on the vee way. this is one of the first places it will show any hard use.
the play in crossfeeds can be dealt with, not as big a deal as with the bed itself.
Don't worry about flat belts, they work fine, and new belts are available.
look at the back gears see if any broken teeth there, also look at spindle gears for bad teeth
does it come with thread dial & center rest?

[kens]

is this it?
https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucalsrh/?sl=91QSCI21003312

[SweetMk]

I have a similar one, mine is a little newer, the motor is directly under the head, instead of behind,,
I have a REAL hard time getting it to do anything accurate,, I believe mine is just too worn,,

It will do some stuff,, but, do not expect to hold a couple thousandths tolerances,,

[Jeff Michel]

Should be a decent unit, Logan made pretty good stuff and parts are available through Logan Actuator. A bit small in the spindle but the quick change gear box is huge. Hard to determine wear but most of the government surplus machines that I've encountered received very little use. I have a Bardons and Oliver # 2 turret lathe that was aboard a navel repair vessel, as far as I could tell it was never used. I doubt you will snag one any cheaper and 15 hours is just a nice days drive:mrgreen:

[MrWolf]

The travel time is what hurts me when looking for a lathe. I can't realistically drive more than an hour before pain starts getting bad and that is with heated seat on. I keep saying someday. Good luck with yours.

[country gent]

The logans were pretty good solid machines Th smaller spindle bore is restrictive but can be worked with. Is this machine a tail stock engine lathe or a turret lathe. (this has a direct bearing on how its ran and capabilities ) A standard tail stock has adjustments to take out or make taper in turned parts that are easily adjustable. The turrets adjustments are much harder to get to and usually affected all the stations. Tooling for the turret machines can be harder to find and may be proprietary even. The plus to the turret is 4 6 or 8 tools can be set up at 1 time depending on the turret. For the home shop / gunsmith not a big a deal as in a production shop where a couple hundred parts may be made in 1 run.

This sounds like an old production machine from a shop. If so moving it may become an issue also A older machine in this size range can easily go in the 2000 lb - 3500 lb range for weight and with head stock length and bed length be more than the average pick up can handle safely. The the tooling also takes room and adds weight. This is a big thing to consider plan for. Do they have a means of loading it where it is, And do you have a means of unloading moving it when you get it home.

15 hours each way with 3-4 hours for loading makes or a long day and the trip back with the truck trailer loaded may become 17-18 hours maybe even a little longer. When I moved my equipment I hired a local rigging company for the move. They came in at 9:00 by 11:00 both lathes the mill and surface grinder were on the semis trailer. and headed for my home. 12:30 they were there and by 2:00 machines tooling were set in place on blocks and ready to be fine tuned in placement and leveled.They brought with them a semi tractor and flat bed trailer, A fork Lift, a 1 ton pick-up and 4 men. Along with the tools of their trade chains blocking plates for getting over soft / rough surfaces. Final bill for the day was $800.00. The weights of the machines were as follows Nardinni lathe 14 x 40 = 3500 lbs,, smaller lathe 12 x 40 = 2000 lbs, Bridgeport mill 2500 lbs, Surface grinder 800 lbs. Tooling and stock was probably another 2000 - 3500 lbs.

[Green Frog]

Country gent’s second sentence is the my main concern... I would be looking for at least a 1 1/8” bore, with bigger being better. I like the commonly available #5-C collets if possible, since 3-Cs are too small for many tasks, and 4-Cs are relatively rare and somewhat expensive.

The other caveat I would raise for the lathe buyer is to be aware of the tooling you get with it. Getting a “bare lathe” tooled up can easily turn your bargain buy into a money pit. Don’t ask me how I know this! :???:

Froggie

[rbuck351]

I'm not familiar with logan lathes. Do they use roller bearings in the head stock? If so, good, if it has babbit bearings you need to check for play in the head stock bearings as rebabbiting is expensive. The small bore size can be worked around for any barrel except a full bull barrel. Tooling is expensive if it doesn't come with it. If you can't go inspect it with a partner that knows what to look for, it's a crap shoot.

[corbinace]

is this it?
https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucalsrh/?sl=91QSCI21003312

Yes, Ken, you have sleuthed it out. Good work!

Thank you gentlemen, one and all. Great things to know about. I am pretty ignorant about machine work, having only gotten to mess around with a lathe very little.

Unfortunately, I will not get to inspect it before purchase, so the condition will be a bit of a "pig in a poke". However, as Jeff Michel mention, being government may make it less used than a for profit shop might be.

To one of the questions from Country Gent, I believe this one is a "tail stock". My ignorance is showing again. It is only designed to hold a center in one position, sliding in and out.

The drive is one of the positives for me, as I get to get out and away.

[corbinace]

Country gent’s second sentence is the my main concern... I would be looking for at least a 1 1/8” bore, with bigger being better. I like the commonly available #5-C collets if possible, since 3-Cs are too small for many tasks, and 4-Cs are relatively rare and somewhat expensive.

The other caveat I would raise for the lathe buyer is to be aware of the tooling you get with it. Getting a “bare lathe” tooled up can easily turn your bargain buy into a money pit. Don’t ask me how I know this! :???:

Froggie

From what I have been able to see, getting the larger bore makes a lot of the machines larger in general and "hobby space" starts being more of an issue.

I do have a bit of left over tooling from a smaller worn out piece of junk lathe that I gave away years ago.

[country gent]

Re working babbit bearings is getting to be a lost art now. There are some tricks to this. 1) if its not to bad a shim under the bearing allows it to be re scraped. But this is only good to a certain point. A lot of old hit and miss engines had this done to rod bearings. With a mandrel they can be repoured but this is a bigger job than most want to take on. Conleys book on rebuilding machines cover a lot of this very well.

To me the bigger issue is the lathe bed itself. Almost all lathes get most of the work done at the chuck this results in a low spot in the bed at the head stock making accurate work hard. Ive seen this "low spot" as high as .060 on some machines. Having to shim a tail stock up to do accurate drilling gets old fast. Having a lathe bed re ground is expensive and there are few shops that can do it. Even on this lathe a grinder would need around 6' of table travel to do bed and head stock section together. Then since most beds are case hardened removing the belly would also remove the hardened surface.

I would definitely want to hear the machine run before buying it. Gear train issues will show with it being louder than normal.

[Scrounge]

Logan 840
Quick change
10" swing
43" bed
flat belt
25/32" spindle bore
1-1/2"-8 x #3 M.T. spindle nose
Lever Turret, tailstock/turret
On legs with chip pan
595# plus three bins of steel that goes along with it.
A bunch of rests, dogs, chucks, spare three jaw and other stuff, no taper attachment.
Pictures look like a bit of rust on ways and in general. Maybe outside for a year???


This is on an online auction. Currently $170 with 1.25 days left.
It is also a 15 hour each way drive to pick it up. That is a net positive for me in these lock-down days.

What say you?? Can this be a good starter machine, that will also be of use to me if I last 20 years?

Not ideal for gunsmithing, but not terrible, either. It's pretty close to the Atlas TH42 (AKA 10F) lathe I paid $750 for a few years ago, and will use many of the same accessories. Same spindle thread, same MT3 spindle. If the spindle is meaty enough, you might be able to ream it to 13/16". I've done that to my little HF 7x10, which also has an MT3 spindle. Unless you're already an expert machinist or an absolute beginner, it's a good learning lathe, and if you can get if for anything close to the current bid, a great price! It will do anything the 7x HF and similar lathes will do, and generally do it better. Other good comments down the thread a bit, too.

[Scrounge]

Yes, Ken, you have sleuthed it out. Good work!

Thank you gentlemen, one and all. Great things to know about. I am pretty ignorant about machine work, having only gotten to mess around with a lathe very little.

Unfortunately, I will not get to inspect it before purchase, so the condition will be a bit of a "pig in a poke". However, as Jeff Michel mention, being government may make it less used than a for profit shop might be.

To one of the questions from Country Gent, I believe this one is a "tail stock". My ignorance is showing again. It is only designed to hold a center in one position, sliding in and out.

The drive is one of the positives for me, as I get to get out and away.

Yes, it has a standard tailstock. It may be wired for 3phase power, which would add to the expense, unless your shop is wired that way, too. It's not going to be over 2000lbs, though it could easily run 1000 pounds or more. My South Bend Heavy 10L is similar to that, and weighs about 1067lbs, plus the stand. My 1-ton HF engine hoist handles it nicely. The Logan and SB lathes are rough equivalents though mine has the larger spindle through hole mentioned earlier. There is an SB 10K lathe that has the same size spindle this one and my Atlas have, as well as many of the 9" SB lathes.

[elmacgyver0]

If its 3 phase you can swap out the motor for a single phase, no big deal.
Or better yet a DC motor with speed control.

[kens]

at that price I would jump on it.
never mind if it is 3phase, I just got a rotary phase converter and I like it.
If you got a phase converter, then 3phase doesn't matter anymore.

[bangerjim]

Excellent lathe. But will go for MUCH MUCH more than that at the end!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want it, be on-line and snipe the price during the LAST 6 seconds to get it. That is the only way to win things on evilbay or other thiefdom auction sites. I hate them!

Remember do not buy a lathe for just gun stuff. You will find TONS of uses for a good metal lathe other than silly gun stuff.

good luck.

[Deadeye Bly]

It looks like it will clean up fairly well with lots of elbow grease. It appears too short for much barrel work but it will be ideal for screws, pins, bushings and much other lathe work. Once you have one you will wonder how you ever got along without one, kinda like a pickup truck. My 11" Logan has ball bearings in the spindle but I don't know about this one. There are lots of goodies in those bins, even looks like an almost complete apron. It needs a 4 jaw chuck for precision work of any sort. Looks like a decent starter lathe. If you get it you will want a bigger one in a few years but then you will have it fixed up and worth more should you sell it. You can take the chuck, tailstock, motor and other stuff off to lighten it for moving. Even take the lathe off the stand to move it.

[ulav8r]

That would be a nice light gunsmithing lathe once repaired and cleaned up. There is a steady rest in one of the crates, that would be useful for rifle barrel work. May or may not be a 4 jaw chuck inlude, none was visible. Expect to spend 40 to 80 hours repair/cleaning to get it running good. Even if worn, it could still produce good work, would just require more skill from the operator.

If at all possible, get some training in operating, such as community college or vo-tech.

[Scrounge]

That would be a nice light gunsmithing lathe once repaired and cleaned up. There is a steady rest in one of the crates, that would be useful for rifle barrel work. May or may not be a 4 jaw chuck inlude, none was visible. Expect to spend 40 to 80 hours repair/cleaning to get it running good. Even if worn, it could still produce good work, would just require more skill from the operator.

If at all possible, get some training in operating, such as community college or vo-tech.

I'll second the training. I've been going very part time for over 5 years, life and medical issues confusing and interrupting things, and I've still learned a whole bunch of good stuff, and made some pretty cool stuff.

269896

One of the left is a factory .310 Lyman sizing and lubing die. One of the right is a prototype in mild steel of a .316 sizing & lubing die. Pin in O1 steel. I need to bulldoze a bit more path to the reloading bench and try it out to see how well it works, if at all. Then I'll have a better idea of what to do with the stressproof stock I bought. If it works well, I may just caseharden it. This was made on the school machines, but using the tooling and such I have for my Atlas and HF lathes.

Speaking of tooling, you'll need a bunch! I have a number of hobbies, including rebuilding machine tools, for which a lathe is essential! Yeah! That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. ;)

[kens]

Did you get it??

[corbinace]

:cry:

No, I had a personal limit of $700 and it was beyond that amount. The winning bid was not too far over that though. $741 or 744, I do not remember exactly.

Maybe if I had broken my limit, but who knows. I can rest easy knowing I held my ground and there will be another one another day. I am a bit wiser know, with all of the help and maybe I will be ready with a bit higher limit when the next one shows up.

Thank you one and all for the help, enabling and general good will.

Tim

[bangerjim]

Remember................it only takes 2 people to REEEEEEEEELY want something at an auction. I hate auctions. Never participate at all. Avoid them like the China Virus!

That $750 price range was VERY good, if it was not totally worn out. Lathes DO wear out, you know! Even good ones like that one.

Years ago when I used to bid at live auctions in the Midwest, I would set a price limit like your $700, and always have a couple $100 bills in my sock! You just never know what might come along.

There will be others. Just keep looking.

banger:guntootsmiley:

[country gent]

The auctions get interesting, especially the "in person" ones.Went to an uncles estate auction a few years ago.I was interested in his lathe a very little logan 6x12 or so bench top, change gears for feeds and threading. A dead center full set of gears, a couple lathe dogs and a face plate, the only chuck was a 1" jacobs threaded for the spindle. It was a low use machine and in very good shape. I gave the opening bid and ran to $500.00. Lack of tooling and size this was about what it was worth. The other 2 bidding ran it up to $2300.00. A new Jet 12 X 40 with stock tooling package. I only gave $2000.00 for the clausing style 12 X 40 with all its tooling included. 2 3 jaws a 4 jaw several live centers follower and steady rests. Vollets and lever collet actuator. A full set of 5c collets by 64s. Along with aloris tooling tool holders and cutting tools.

Watch and be patient get word out to people what your interested in and it will turn up

At $750 it wasnt a bad buy if inspected and in good shape. Unknown condition Its on the high side I think.

Ideally the machine is under power and you can hear it run and take a pass or 2 on a piece of stock.

[ulav8r]

Snip I gave the opening bid and ran to $500.00. Lack of tooling and size this was about what it was worth. The other 2 bidding ran it up to $2300.00. Snip


Never place the first bid at a live auction, or the second bid. Wait til the bidding stops and the auctioneer is begging for another bid, then bid if the price is still acceptable.

[Buckshot]

...............If you REALLY want a lathe, let as many of your friends know as possible. Be sure they know what a lathe is! :-) Another thing is that you should be prepared to 'JUMP' if something good comes up. Also be prepared to possibly have to pay a bit more then you want to. I really don't know how many places around anymore even HAVE a lathe. So much today is manufactured in such a way that the only way to get it repaired is to ship it back to the manufacturer.

http://www.fototime.com/B42999491991D09/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/D6F506031937D20/standard.jpg

I was very lucky to have found an 11" Logan Lathe, actually made by Powermatic as they bought Logan. Even better was that it came with a bunch of stuff, such as a bed turret, a 6 jaw Buck adjust tru chuck in addition to face plates and other odds and ends. When looking at a lathe, the most important area to pay attention to is the first 24" in front of the head stock, as that will be the area having the most wear.

I used to practically live on E-Bay and a couple other similar sites. One time there was a school district back east that was getting rid of a bunch of stuff. They had 3 BRAND NEW 11" Logan lathes, still in their original shipping crates sitting in their warehouse. Since they were no longer going to be offering any manual arts classes in their high schools any longer, these 3 new lathes were excess to their needs. I do not recall now what they sold for but it was a good enough deal that had I not already had a used/good enough unit I'd have been on a round trip from California to eastern Pennsylvania in a hot second.

................Buckshot

[john.k]

I used to buy lots of machines,condition from the worst of school training lathes,to lathes from the military ,unused ,but dismantled for some reason known only to the military mind.....A couple of years ago I was given a lathe in pieces that had been bootlegged out of an air force base.....not a tiddler either ,a 13x36 Colchester roundtop.......Yes ,the mysteries of the military mind.(snoozing in the gatehouse?)

[country gent]

Several places to look and watch. 1) local tool shops and s machinist supply shops. they may actually deal i used equipment or they hear about it. 2)The local machine shops in your area. They have what you are looking for and may know of excess machinery. 3) There are several online vendors auctions that deal with machinery Bid Spotter . com is one that is auction sites all over but there is a lot of things showing up. I subscribe to this site and Im getting 4-6 auction notifications a day. 4) As mentioned friends and family. 5) The local gun shops and ranges. Here there is again a lot of chatting and bartering. The original owner of our local gun shop had leads on machines quite often

The more eyes and ears you have out there the better. Watch the estate auctions there a lot of equipment forgotten about in basements, garages and barns.

Also keep in mind lathes are some what regional by maker. Monarch, Sheldon, Logan, Hendi, south bend, Atlas, clausing, Hardringe, Cincinnati, warner and Swasey. Lodge and Shippley were all makers and more popular in some areas than others.

Also buying a new machine offers some advantages over used. 1) You can get just the machine you want. 2) most come with a basic tooling package that gets you started out. 3) delivery cam sometimes be bartered as part of the deal. 4) You know what your getting. Here look at the grizzly machines , jet machines. Also keep in mind the support equipment you need or want a drill press, bench grinders for sharpening tools, bench, along with storage cabinets tool boxes and measuring equipment