tree stand hunting?

[Franklin7x57]

I have a ruger #1 45/70 that I want to shoot a deer with. I know Unique isn't position sensitive, how about at angles from a tree stand where most of the powder will be up against the bullet?
Thanks.

[richhodg66]

I haven't tested that, but I don't think you'd have a problem. I have a range on my own place and might be able to figure out how to test this. Sounds like a good project to under take.

Most people on here don't seem to think tree stands are real hunting and picture guys in tower stands over looking bean field. I use tree stands a lot, and hunt like a bow hunter, most of my shots are real close because I plan it that way. To me, it takes as much or more hunting ability to learn movement patterns, set up an ambush plan accordingly and then be there when the deer shows up than just walking around with a rifle hoping you can see one before it sees you.

[Omega]

I haven't tested that, but I don't think you'd have a problem. I have a range on my own place and might be able to figure out how to test this. Sounds like a good project to under take.

Most people on here don't seem to think tree stands are real hunting and picture guys in tower stands over looking bean field. I use tree stands a lot, and hunt like a bow hunter, most of my shots are real close because I plan it that way. To me, it takes as much or more hunting ability to learn movement patterns, set up an ambush plan accordingly and then be there when the deer shows up than just walking around with a rifle hoping you can see one before it sees you.Meh, I've hunted all kinds of ways, and they all take some knowledge and a bit of luck. Well, I've never hunted a high-fence operation, but to each their own.

As to the loads; why not use some fill to keep the powder up against the primer, just in case?

[richhodg66]

My standard loads for .45-70 have been 12 grains of Unique or Herco with 350-400 grain bullets and is as accurate as I can hold at 100 yards with a good rifle and target sights. With lighter bullets, 10 grains of 700X seems to do just as well. I get kinda nervous about the idea of fillers with loads like that. There's a sticky thread on here where there's a lot of good advice on the use of fillers, and light charges of pistol powder isn't one of the scenarios where it's recommended.

I have a good sized cottonwood close enough to my shooting bench that I could likely set up some kind of an elevated platform to test this theory, it kind of has my curiosity up now.

[slownsteady22]

Not much of a treestand or rifle hunter but I am very interested in seeing the test result. I tend to hunt in areas where shots are 50 yds or less, and the option of sitting in a treestand with my 45 70 would be welcome.

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[Norske]

If Unique doesn't work, Western Powder describes 5744 as not being position sensitive. My 1895 shoots the "factory equivalent" load of 400 gr bullet over 38.5 grains of IMR 3031 very accurately, and the case is reasonably full.

[Franklin7x57]

I haven't tested that, but I don't think you'd have a problem. I have a range on my own place and might be able to figure out how to test this. Sounds like a good project to under take.

Most people on here don't seem to think tree stands are real hunting and picture guys in tower stands over looking bean field. I use tree stands a lot, and hunt like a bow hunter, most of my shots are real close because I plan it that way. To me, it takes as much or more hunting ability to learn movement patterns, set up an ambush plan accordingly and then be there when the deer shows up than just walking around with a rifle hoping you can see one before it sees you.

I hunt the same way, most of my kills are less than 20 yards now with a bow. Hunt the same stands with gun so 50 yards is a long ways.

[ascast]

your stand will be, what 10 feet up? I doubt you'll see any real difference in point of impact, with that load-off hand. I suggest you wipe off-degrease the bullet bases prior to seating. This will prevent powder from sticking to the base. I think someone on here just recently said they wipe them in acetone to remove grease.

[richhodg66]

I usually get them higher than ten feet. They say deer don't look up and I believe that to generally be true, but have had them bust me before while in a stand even when I know I didn't make any noise. I've shot several from straight down before. When hunting with a bow, the height will make a difference with your point of impact, a rifle, not so much and since I mostly rifle hunt nowadays, I like them higher.

[slownsteady22]

Maybe if you end up shooting down at a close range (with a light load of powder) it may make a difference with the rifle.

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[MT Gianni]

I would definitely practice from a stand. I met someone a while back who was convinced his load failed when he shot straight down from a stand. I had him hang a clorox bottle at 3 feet and fire down from his stand. @ 15 feet with his scope sighted in at 100 yards, [medium or high rings I don't recall] he was 3" low on the clorox bottle. That comes out to a broken jawed deer. IMO the best shot out of a straight down stand is between the shoulders going away from you.

[Static line]

I haven't tested that, but I don't think you'd have a problem. I have a range on my own place and might be able to figure out how to test this. Sounds like a good project to under take.

Most people on here don't seem to think tree stands are real hunting and picture guys in tower stands over looking bean field. I use tree stands a lot, and hunt like a bow hunter, most of my shots are real close because I plan it that way. To me, it takes as much or more hunting ability to learn movement patterns, set up an ambush plan accordingly and then be there when the deer shows up than just walking around with a rifle hoping you can see one before it sees you.

Being 74 now and hard to get around , I admit to hunting from my tower blind overlooking my hayfield and woods. To heck with those nimrods that don't think that is hunting. Wait till they get old and crippled up. I have not had any cartridges not go off from my angles because of
being position sensitive. That includes Unique.

[kens]

seems like 45-70 is a lot of horsepower for a tree stand.
deer is a thin skinned animal and it really doesnt take much horsepower to bring one down.
My favorite tree stand gun is a mauser98 in .308 and I load it to .30-30+P power.
a 30-30 bullet on top of a light 308 load and it is deadly, and light to handle

[richhodg66]

seems like 45-70 is a lot of horsepower for a tree stand.
deer is a thin skinned animal and it really doesnt take much horsepower to bring one down.
My favorite tree stand gun is a mauser98 in .308 and I load it to .30-30+P power.
a 30-30 bullet on top of a light 308 load and it is deadly, and light to handle

Uh, a .45-70 doesn't have to be a fire breather and the guy even said he was loading it with Unique which pretty much maxes out at Trapdoor capabilities.

I shot a doe from a tree stand, maybe 40 yards, with a 330 grain cast bullet and 30 grains of 5744, wimpy even by Trapdoor standards. She took two steps and fell over, no real damaged meat at all. Never have understood why people felt the need to hot load it, the .45-70 is one of those combos that just plain works.

[Franklin7x57]

seems like 45-70 is a lot of horsepower for a tree stand.
deer is a thin skinned animal and it really doesnt take much horsepower to bring one down.
My favorite tree stand gun is a mauser98 in .308 and I load it to .30-30+P power.
a 30-30 bullet on top of a light 308 load and it is deadly, and light to handle

It was my Father in Law's rifle and would like to use it. My loads are probably around 50 cal. muzzleloader power so I don't think I'm really overpowered. The ruger is heavy for sure. I've got a contender with a 30-30 rifle barrel that's nice and light that I need to break in too.

[OldBearHair]

While you are standing in a tree stand, draw your bow to full draw hard against the stop, then bend at the waist, aim, shoot. Your arrow will go where you want. Very old advice from a very old bowhunter. Shot my 5x5 elk Sept. 2020 from an elevated stand at 41 yards. Picture on Western elk hunt post.

[gumbo333]

I've shot deer out of a ground blind with a 45\70. Reduced loads of either red dot or blue dot. Very mild loads, little recoil, little noise. But never nearly straight down, even practicing at my shooting table with my Henry. Get up on a step ladder and fire a few into the ground. I bet they all go bang just as they should.

[siamese4570]

I shoot unique in my 4570. I use a little dacron filler to hold the powder in the back of the case. Works will, no problems to date. If the filler makes you nervous, you can use 2400. It's not supposed to be position sensitive either.
siamese4570

[megasupermagnum]

Who says tree stands aren't hunting? They are likely the most popular structures for all hunting in the world right now. I've tried all kinds of blinds. Pop up ground blinds, burlap blind, layout blinds, tree stands, ladder stands, and various permanent stands. Pop up blinds are great for hiding your movement, and keep you out of the elements. The drawback is that you never know how an animal will react to seeing it. Ideally they don't, which ground blinds are best used with a decoy or bait. Tree stands, as mentioned have to be high. The higher the better. They don't protect you from the elements at all, infact you are far more exposed in a tree than you are standing on the ground. You are also exposed visually, the only defense being that unaware animals probably are not looking up at you. Some claim being high keeps your scent up too. I've had mixed results with this, and personally don't believe they offer all that much scent wise. What they can offer is a high vantage point, which can offer a wider field of view. Sometimes your shooting lanes are great, but a lot of times it seems there is always a branch in the way. If you put them up well ahead of time, you can simply trim the branches with a saw or shotgun. If not, you can't do anything about them. Ground blinds kind of suffer the same thing, as brush can often be in the way. The benefit here is you can simply walk over and break the brush over. Ground blinds being low to the ground can be limited in view, but also offer better shots at animals. I don't like ladder stands at all. The ones I've tried have only been 8 or 10 feet high. They are heavy, and don't offer any real benefit to me. Hunting straight from the ground can be a good way to go too. I would not recommend sitting right on the ground, you are not as tough as you think you are. Ground pads might work for short sits, but if you intend on sitting a full 12+ hour day, you will need some kind of support. "Turkey" chairs are fantastic. They are light, portable, and very comfortable. Hunting from the ground offers just about limitless areas you can sit. Ground blinds are somewhat limited, although there are usually work arounds. Tree stands require a nice straight tree, in the right spot, with minimal branches, and that can be a little challenging to find in the exact spot you want to be (That's got to be really tough in Kansas). Ground hunting leaves you completely exposed visually, so I like to get into some brush, and like to sit against a tree at least shoulder width, but any thick brush, including grass does work. Being so low, visibility can be limited, it definitely makes you rely on more than just sight alone. I do like that being so low often feel warmer. You are still exposed to rain and snow, but often wind is not bad. I also find that animals, particularly deer, don't seem to smell me until they are just about on top of me when I'm on the ground. My thinking is that air/scent doesn't travel well through thick grass. I've also noticed that they don't always see you, even if they "see" you. Up in a tree stand, if you are spotted, it is only a matter of time before they realize that is a human silhouette in a tree. On the ground, all they see is a torso and a head, as long as you sit perfectly still. They stare you down, until they come to the conclusion you are just another clump of something, but not a human.

I sit on the ground a lot, but often choose a ground blind in bad weather, or any time I know I'll be setting up in a spot for a day. I do not use tree stands as much, but that is likely because I don't deer hunt nearly as much as I bird hunt.

Sorry to take away from this thread, I just found it strange some think down on tree stands. As for Unique, it is position sensitive. Every powder I have ever tried is, some more so than others. It is kind of like how some claim some powders are not effected by temperatures. All powders are effected by temperature, it is just to what degree. Unique is pretty good in handgun, I've never tried it in a 45-70. Personally I would not worry about it, it certainly won't have any effect under 50 yards, and I doubt it would be noticeable at 100. If you really want to be sure, when you go next, check the sight in by aiming the gun straight down, very slowly brining it up and taking your shot (from a bench, with a rest). Repeat until happy. This will replicate powder against the bullet that you would see in the tree stand.

[Static line]

seems like 45-70 is a lot of horsepower for a tree stand.
deer is a thin skinned animal and it really doesnt take much horsepower to bring one down.
My favorite tree stand gun is a mauser98 in .308 and I load it to .30-30+P power.
a 30-30 bullet on top of a light 308 load and it is deadly, and light to handle

We hunt with what we have in some of our states that only allow straight walled cartridges to hunt deer with. Sure the 45-70 is a lot of power. So what ? At least this 74 year old child doesn't have to track them far and drag them. I used to hunt with a 12 ga. slug gun from a stand too, about the same difference and during muzzy season, same thing, big power and no dragging. I know, I know, dead id dead, it's just that I don't want my dead to get back up and run off. The 45-70 can be loaded up or down to make it tame or wild.

[cwlongshot]

Uh, a .45-70 doesn't have to be a fire breather and the guy even said he was loading it with Unique which pretty much maxes out at Trapdoor capabilities.

I shot a doe from a tree stand, maybe 40 yards, with a 330 grain cast bullet and 30 grains of 5744, wimpy even by Trapdoor standards. She took two steps and fell over, no real damaged meat at all. Never have understood why people felt the need to hot load it, the .45-70 is one of those combos that just plain works.

EXACTLY.

Dont get me wrong we all have our "favorite" but most times its simply NOT as universally "great" just what we have found to be best under most circumstances. When that changes WE NEED TO CHANGE to make things work again!!

Try a DIFFERENT POWDER!! I have had great luck with 5744. But many others can be more bulkie and net ya same ballistics and preformance. How fast is your load? Trail Boss ir Tin Star could be the answer if your not too speedy. 3031 works great for many generations as well. I also use alot of Unique but more in 38/55.

CW

[richhodg66]

My standard in the .45=70 is 12 grains of Unique or Herco, bullets weight about 380 grains. Under the conditions I normally hunt, I'd have no problem using that load on deer if the bullet had a good meplat.

I think he's fine, but I am interested in trying a systematic test to find out is shooting down with no fillers would affect things.

[All Kinds]

We hunt with what we have in some of our states that only allow straight walled cartridges to hunt deer with. Sure the 45-70 is a lot of power. So what ? At least this 74 year old child doesn't have to track them far and drag them. I used to hunt with a 12 ga. slug gun from a stand too, about the same difference and during muzzy season, same thing, big power and no dragging. I know, I know, dead id dead, it's just that I don't want my dead to get back up and run off. The 45-70 can be loaded up or down to make it tame or wild.

2nd this - there are a few other straight walls, but 45-70 is still the most common around here, if you go by the advertised specials at the LGSs.

[ChristopherO]

A fellow Buckeye with the 45/70 once they legalized straight walled cartridges for deer hunting. I use 12 grains of Unique under the Lee 405 grain cast and have many times shot at a sharp downward angle about 15' down from the bank overlooking the water way in my back yard. Never had one of those rounds hang fire nor fail to go off and hit the stones right where I am aiming. You should be just fine.
By the way, my hunting loads are Accurate 460C FNGC boolits pushed by 2400. My research leaned toward a light topping of Dacron filler, 1/2 a grain fluffed up, to keep the powder in position. It has been very accurate and deadly for our whitetails. 1,620 FPS is more than black powder velocities, but aren't barn burners, either. The drop is way less than the 12 gauge Lightfield slugs I formally used and the Marlin 1895 CB is much more enjoyable in my hands. As mentioned earlier, for those of us in the Slug Only states to now have the opportunity to finally use rifles, even if only straight walled rounds, we use what is available and catches our fancy. 4570's have become quite popular in these parts. Plus, I can cast, load and shoot to my heart's content. Couldn't afford to consider that with saboted 12 gage slugs.

[Brett Ross]

light load of 3031, with a tuft of Dacron for me (old Larry Gibson load). This has worked for 2 deer in 2 years, one bang flop and one 15 yard run, Accurate out to 200 yds (furthest I have tried it).