Lighter/Faster Deer Load

[Win94ae]

I was going to use a Lee 240gr RN, but thought I would want more hydrostatic shock, so I got a lot lighter, flat-nosed bullet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zwUpgADlwk

Hopefully this bullet will do the job!

[dangitgriff]

22-250 is faster, if that’s what you’re after.

[Win94ae]

22-250 is faster, if that’s what you’re after.

It doesn't fit in a straight walled chamber... which I need to hunt in Ohio. :p

[dangitgriff]

Touché.
I counter with:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201016/11d57a3fb0d7956c56c3a5afb6c32b9d.jpg
[emoji1783]

[bmortell]

did you mention alloy? i just got done making my deer bullets for the same gun but doing kinda the opposite of you with a soft nosed 300gr

[The_Eccentric]

LOL.

A friend has a BHA Model 89. 500SW Mag in a levergun just a bit bigger than a Winchester 1892. Expensive for sure, but an heirloom quality example of functional art in steel and walnut. BHA is about 15 minutes drive from me. Slowly saving my pennies for a Model 89. That'll take a while. For now I have my Henry H010X and Rossi M92.

[dangitgriff]

Well, the OP could just go cheap and get himself a 444 Marlin. Problem solved!

[gon2shoot]

I was going to use a Lee 240gr RN, but thought I would want more hydrostatic shock, so I got a lot lighter, flat-nosed bullet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zwUpgADlwk

Hopefully this bullet will do the job!

Will the 240 not kill deer?

[The_Eccentric]

Will the 240 not kill deer?


A 240Gr bullet out of a .44mag levergun will kill any deer with good shot placement at reasonable distances. Doesn't need to expand either. A flat nosed 240gr bullet is preferable to a round nose 240gr.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Something like this perhaps?
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-165DG-D.png

I have the non gas checked version and it works great out of my Glenfield.

[Texas by God]

The 44-40 Winchester 200gr flat point has been used to kill Deer for a long, long time. As well as you shoot that Marlin .44 mag,no worries! If all goes right this season, I hope to christen my 44-40 on a deer with the same type bullet.

[Win94ae]

did you mention alloy? i just got done making my deer bullets for the same gun but doing kinda the opposite of you with a soft nosed 300gr
I don't know the alloy. I made some a long time ago, it was harder than I liked and I kept adding soft lead until the bullets performed like I wanted.


LOL.

A friend has a BHA Model 89. 500SW Mag in a levergun just a bit bigger than a Winchester 1892. Expensive for sure, but an heirloom quality example of functional art in steel and walnut. BHA is about 15 minutes drive from me. Slowly saving my pennies for a Model 89. That'll take a while. For now I have my Henry H010X and Rossi M92.
Yeah, I don't really like Marlins, but it will do... hopefully!


Well, the OP could just go cheap and get himself a 444 Marlin. Problem solved!
That would be $1000 more expensive than a mold. :/


Will the 240 not kill deer?
A 40gr 22lr can kill a deer, recovering it is the tricky part. People here were saying that a round nose may not leave a blood trail, so that really isn't what I want.


A 240Gr bullet out of a .44mag levergun will kill any deer with good shot placement at reasonable distances. Doesn't need to expand either. A flat nosed 240gr bullet is preferable to a round nose 240gr.
Yep, just wanted more hydrostatic shock, and a more dynamic wound cavity.


Something like this perhaps?
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-165DG-D.png

I have the non gas checked version and it works great out of my Glenfield.
Kind of, but a lot shorter with a tangent ogive.


The 44-40 Winchester 200gr flat point has been used to kill Deer for a long, long time. As well as you shoot that Marlin .44 mag,no worries! If all goes right this season, I hope to christen my 44-40 on a deer with the same type bullet.

I have high hopes for this rifle come deer season, thanks! I hope your season fills the freezer!

[dangitgriff]

[emoji1783]

[MT Gianni]

I don't often watch videos but hydrostatic shock is the last thing I want near edible meat. Put two holes in the chest, let some cold air in and some warm blood out and it won't take long to drop.

[Drm50]

I have never shot a deer with 44mg carbine. I have shot many with Ruger SBH. Shooting 240gr Hornady JHP and switched to XTPs. Same charge 22.5gr of H-2400. Only gun I load hot because that’s it’s sweet spot. All my pistol kills 40-50 yds. The 240HP puts them on the ground, never had one make it further than I could see from point of impact. I have a nice 1894sr that I was fooling with lighter bullets, it likes the 240s and they are more that enough for deer. I hate it we have to use straight case/ 38 minimum in Ohio. Guys obsess over bullets for these big bores, the deer were wiped out of Ohio with muzzle loaders less than 40cal shooting patched balls. Any 38cal or larger going 800 FPS is more than enough for deer. Of course you have to make the shot. Big bullets don’t make up for poor placement.

[swheeler]

You won't have a problem putting any deer you see down. Good hunting to you!

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Post a picture of your very dead deer!

[Win94ae]

I don't often watch videos but hydrostatic shock is the last thing I want near edible meat. Put two holes in the chest, let some cold air in and some warm blood out and it won't take long to drop.

I want my deer to drop immediately, I'd rather die very close to where I shot it and at the least, stay on my property. I'm not so worried about an area of bloodshot ribs.


I have never shot a deer with 44mg carbine. I have shot many with Ruger SBH. Shooting 240gr Hornady JHP and switched to XTPs. Same charge 22.5gr of H-2400. Only gun I load hot because that’s it’s sweet spot. All my pistol kills 40-50 yds. The 240HP puts them on the ground, never had one make it further than I could see from point of impact. I have a nice 1894sr that I was fooling with lighter bullets, it likes the 240s and they are more that enough for deer. I hate it we have to use straight case/ 38 minimum in Ohio. Guys obsess over bullets for these big bores, the deer were wiped out of Ohio with muzzle loaders less than 40cal shooting patched balls. Any 38cal or larger going 800 FPS is more than enough for deer. Of course you have to make the shot. Big bullets don’t make up for poor placement.

I want the heart to be destroyed; at the least, like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arPwQd2Kyp0
They usually don't go anywhere when I hit them like that.
I've shot a few deer with my 357 using a 158gr HP-XTP at 1050fps; and yes, I've had pass through heart/lung/ shots where I had to track it in the dark, with next to no blood trail.
So yeah, I'll go with the 95% immediate drop method. I don't see how this is a problem.


You won't have a problem putting any deer you see down. Good hunting to you!
Yes, I have much confidence in this load. Thank you!


Post a picture of your very dead deer!
I will, I will show at least the heart damage also. :)

[Static line]

I am just the opposite. I choose my 275 gr. WFN cast bullet over my 240 gr. WFN cast bullet for deer hunting. I like heavy versus light.

[sharps4590]

How dead is dead? I don't like light for caliber bullets or hollow points but deer hit with them are just as dead as the ones I shoot with heavy for caliber, large meplat bullets. I like penetration, others like the expansion and lesser penetration. Others worship at the alter of velocity, which really is overrated, but the deer are just as dead. Everyone's experience is different and some have restrictions others don't have to contend with. Shoot what you're confident with and puts a smile on your face.

[Hickok]

The 44-40 Winchester 200gr flat point has been used to kill Deer for a long, long time. As well as you shoot that Marlin .44 mag,no worries! If all goes right this season, I hope to christen my 44-40 on a deer with the same type bullet. I second that fact. That 200gr RNFN will work. WIN94AE has that carbine shooting pretty good with that reload. Hope he gets a nice buck!

[Nathanj]

You've got a great rifle and load combination there. I've used everything from 180's to the 310 in my dad's old lever action Marlin and it kills every time. No telling how many deer, pigs, coyotes, and bear that gun has taken. Post up a pic when you knock one down. Hope you have a great season this year

[Win94ae]

I am just the opposite. I choose my 275 gr. WFN cast bullet over my 240 gr. WFN cast bullet for deer hunting. I like heavy versus light.

Actually, I planned on using a 300gr bullet at first, that wouldn't stabilize, then I went for the 265gr soft nose bullet; but that bullet didn't stabilize either in the 1 and 48 twist. So I have to use what works.


How dead is dead? I don't like light for caliber bullets or hollow points but deer hit with them are just as dead as the ones I shoot with heavy for caliber, large meplat bullets. I like penetration, others like the expansion and lesser penetration. Others worship at the alter of velocity, which really is overrated, but the deer are just as dead. Everyone's experience is different and some have restrictions others don't have to contend with. Shoot what you're confident with and puts a smile on your face.

I want an ethical kill, that I will recover. I weird that way. :/

[Win94ae]

I second that fact. That 200gr RNFN will work. WIN94AE has that carbine shooting pretty good with that reload. Hope he gets a nice buck!
Thank you!


You've got a great rifle and load combination there. I've used everything from 180's to the 310 in my dad's old lever action Marlin and it kills every time. No telling how many deer, pigs, coyotes, and bear that gun has taken. Post up a pic when you knock one down. Hope you have a great season this year

I will have a video of the damage and whatnot. Thank you!

[Static line]

Actually, I planned on using a 300gr bullet at first, that wouldn't stabilize, then I went for the 265gr soft nose bullet; but that bullet didn't stabilize either in the 1 and 48 twist. So I have to use what works.



I want an ethical kill, that I will recover. I weird that way. :/

I agree you have to use what works.The 1894 44 mag has a 1 in 38 twist rate. I figure you just had a typo. Yep,I heard that that twist rate isn't good for anything 300 grs. and above so I took a gamble and went with the cast bullet I use for my 77/44 also which is the 275 gr. WFN. Works just fine out of both of my rifles. That's a good bullet,to bad it doesn't work out of yours.

[sharps4590]

Wat did I say that suggested an unethical kill? Everything I mentioned will kill quickly.

[Win94ae]

Wat did I say that suggested an unethical kill? Everything I mentioned will kill quickly.

Why don't you quote me saying you said anything of the sort?

I'll just ignore those of you that can't have a conversation.

[Win94ae]

I agree you have to use what works.The 1894 44 mag has a 1 in 38 twist rate. I figure you just had a typo. Yep,I heard that that twist rate isn't good for anything 300 grs. and above so I took a gamble and went with the cast bullet I use for my 77/44 also which is the 275 gr. WFN. Works just fine out of both of my rifles. That's a good bullet,to bad it doesn't work out of yours.

I'm totally satisfied with my bullet choice. :)

[jimb16]

Last year my buck dropped in his tracks when I hit him with a 260 gr .45 RNFP at 50 yards. Went through the lungs. Found 1 small fragment in the deer. Velocity was around 1200 fps. Dead in his tracks is as dead as any deer needs to be.

[dangitgriff]

Fat bullets need love, too!

[Static line]

I'm totally satisfied with my bullet choice. :)

Well, I'm certain that your bullet will do it's part if you do yours and from what you show on your video, I do think that you are up to the task. Good luck hunting.

[sharps4590]

I agree with you, you are weird.

[Texas by God]

I fired one shot at 40 yards to check my zero. Ready for a close range deer! 200gr fp over 9 grs Unique. 1" target dot. 44 WCF/ H&R Topperhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201101/990dae566fe04afe336c6c98d5f00b60.jpg

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[farmbif]

I been shooting some 432640's from an mp mold in a marlin 1894 solids are 275 grains small hollow point is 265grains and I don't shoot into paper targets they seem to as accurate as 429421's shooting at trees and stumps and blocks of wood and stuff. but 429215's I'm sure would get the job done just as well as the other bullets when loaded to full power.

[OverMax]

180 & 210 gr. are lighter and faster than a 240 but of the three 240 may be the most accurate.
Have a Ruger 44 carbine here although there are a few additional cast bullet weights used. I could only shoot those factory made mentioned prior.
Ruger 44 mag has a gas ported action. Cast lead checked or unchecked can be troublesome when either streaks its gas ported barrel. Than again having a lever action. >No problem. Experiment with them all.

[longbow]

I am surprised the 265 gr. boolit didn't stabilize... unless it was undersize.

If you are not aware, Marlins have large groove diameter so require fatter boolits than .44 mag. handguns. The SAAMI spec is 0.431" groove diameter for rifle where it is 0.429" groove for handgun. My Marlin groove diameter measures 0.4315" as best I can measure it with a slug and micrometer.

I didn't get decent accuracy from my 1894 until I got a "fat" boolit mould. My gun likes 0.433"/0.434" cast boolits and shoots those just fine if they are under about 280 grs. Fit is king! And Marlins have fat bores and slow twist!

I also wanted to used 300 gr. boolits but could not get them to stabilize much past 50 yards. I even tried some Hornady 300 gr. "J" bullets with no success ~ they were keyholing by 100 yards. I found that a fat cast 265 gr. boolit was stable to 200 yards and shot fairly accurately to that range... with lots of elevation. My Mihec 434640 at 270 grs. solid shoots well to 100 yards. It casts at 0.434" with wheelweights. I usually tumble lube and shoot as cast.

My first mould for this gun was the Lyman 429421 because the Keith semi wadcutter got such good press but it cast at 0.429"/0.430" so undersize in my gun and the SWC wouldn't feed well at all in my gun. The RNFP and TC styles feed well.

Not trying to say you should be looking for a heavier boolit, just that if it fits well a boolit of up to around 270 grs. should stabilize in 1:38" twist at max./near max. loads. If you slow it down, maybe not.

Looks like you have a load that works anyway.

Longbow

[smkummer]

I think you are maybe overthinking this. In the 70’s-80’s, it appeared to be a trend to load lighter faster bullets maybe because of the effectiveness of the 357 125 gr. HP. Then a trend years later for heavier than standard weights. I have killed deer with both a handgun/rifle in 44 mag. The 240 grain bullet fired from my Marlin at about 1600 FPS and hitting the deer at a far enough range the hear the bullet hit the deer with a “whomp” was convincing enough for me that that bullet combo is as deadly as any 30-06, 7 mm mag. or 300 win. Mag.. Those kills were in ND and small Texas deer. 2 friends can agree with the effectiveness in the So. Indiana size deer and a Marlin 44 mag. with 225/240 grain bullets.

Sure, 200 gr. bullets will work well also. I am just now working with my cherished RD 265 gr grain mold and now have the lee 431 sizer for it. Accurate and hard hitting.

[Larry Gibson]

A GC'd bullet will best serve your needs. I found the GC'd 429215 can be driven to 1800+ fps safely out of 20 - 24" barrels with excellent accuracy and deadly effect on deer out to 200 yards.

[freakonaleash]

I have killed deer with an 1860 army C&B revolver with a round ball. deer aren't hard to kill

[Kosh75287]

I'm not sure hydrostatic shock becomes an issue until the projectile exceeds Mach II. Can a cast projectile be launched that fast & still stay together?

[David LaPell]

.50-70 Sharps, straight walled chamber, 450 grain bullet, and a heck of a lot of fun to shoot.

https://i.imgur.com/nAupAo8.jpg?1

[Prairie Cowboy]

I have killed deer with an 1860 army C&B revolver with a round ball. deer aren't hard to kill

I once dropped a deer with a stern rebuke and a strongly worded letter to the "Times". Indeed, deer are not hard to kill. ;)

(No offense meant. I couldn't resist it.)

[Prairie Cowboy]

If you don't mind a JSP ( :castmine: ), then a 200 grainer might be the ticket.

With H110 or 296 you can reach over 2000 FPS easily with a 20" barrel.
Flat shooting and lots of shock.

[Texas by God]

To continue, I once easily killed a buck at 70 mph with my Silverado. The problem was that the buck also killed my Silverado......and I hate the taste and smell of airbags;-)

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Shot a domestic sheep once with that boolit in a Rossi 92. Probably ACWW and 6 grains of Promo. Maybe 1100 FPS? He was a wiley one I couldn't get close to, but a shot presented when he put his head down to eat facing me. I shot him in the neck right behind the head. The boolit traveled the full length of his neck and exited his brisket. No doubt you will get plenty of penetration.

[yeahbub]

A GC'd bullet will best serve your needs. I found the GC'd 429215 can be driven to 1800+ fps safely out of 20 - 24" barrels with excellent accuracy and deadly effect on deer out to 200 yards.

Amen! The 429215 has been my go-to boolit for about as long as I've shot a .44, out of SBH's and carbines and I never recovered a boolit from the deer. clean holes in and out. All penetrated completely. The slow twist is an advantage with a 1:1 WW:soft lead expandable alloy, though generally they don't expand.

[Win94ae]

I'm not sure hydrostatic shock becomes an issue until the projectile exceeds Mach II. Can a cast projectile be launched that fast & still stay together?

I have a 1 in 38 twist, I launch 180gr cast bullets faster than Mark2.

RPMs with specific alloy is what is important, not the velocity alone.
RPM Threshold (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-25226.html)
There was a page with that info condensed, but I can't find it.

Also, I have shot deer with the 45-70 well below mark 2 and have turned the heart inside out; purely from hydrostatic shock.

[farmbif]

after many years shooting 44 mag, with several different molds out of rifles and handguns I've come to realize why the 240 grain bullet is the most standard fare. it just works. I guess there is a balance between energy and speed that is just about right with this load. I'm not much of an accomplished hunter so can't really say if the semi wad cutter or the round flat is better but, my most favorites for accuracy is the hg503 design and 432640. I'm sure that with loaded over a full complement of magnum pistol powder like the h110, 296, aa9, 300mp, 2400 will kill just about whatever is within 100 yards as long as you place bullet in vitals.