Thinking of Working Up A WildCat

[Johnch]

Ok Between calming my lady down and dealing with a Headache I was sorting brass today

As a friend has a new .25 x 45 barrel for his AR15
So I was sorting him out a few hundred PMC 223 cases

This is a idea of fighting the lack of ammo and needing a project to work on
Yes I know this wouldn't be free ....But

I got to look at a loaded round and started thinking
223 brass is easy to get and I have a good supply

So keep the neck the same length
But shorten the overall length a bunch , not sure how short would be correct yeat
That should allow me to push a .257 dia 65 or 70 gr RF ( like the Lee 30 cal soup can bullet )
At about 1200 to 1600 fps with about a 100% loading of a powder like 2400 at good cast bullet pressures

I would think that the nice flat nose at about that speed would be a great small game bullet
I am sure if I shortened the case that much
I would have to inside neck turn the brass to allow the bullet to seat correctly
Also if the case was that small
Less chance of people trying to turn the round into the next 25 cal super mag round

I am sure a 223 length action could be shortened
Working the feeding , I am sure could also be chopped down from the same 223 action
But I am sure I would have to make my own stock to fit the short action

What do you think ?
Am I thinking correctly ?
Or off my rocker with a total money pit of a idea ?

John

[BK7saum]

The Rem 700 functions with 17 and 221 remington fireball cartridges with a 1.365 and 1.4" case lengths. They use a block in the rear of the mag box. Of course, they also clock the extractor a bit higher so the case doesn't fall off the extractor in the bolt lug recess.

[adcoch1]

Yes, you are off your rocker, just like me! I have a set of dies that someone had made up back in the 60s by RCBS that are a 221 fireball necked up to 6mm. So a 6x35. I took a 357 brass and sized it with the sizing die to make a rimmed 6x35 for the exact purpose you are talking about. When I build up a rifle I will probably chamber to use 223 cut down, but to follow your idea, 1600fps is a perfect target velocity for small game, and yours being 25cal will make it even easier to cast for and find molds. It's a fun kinda crazy....

[Nobade]

I used to make 256 win mag out of 223 cases. It works. You will have to turn or ream the necks.

[country gent]

Right know you have a idea and theory, How important is it to you to prove it out. :smile::smile:

Sizing the shoulder back will be forming the neck out of thicker brass on the caxe, sizing the existing shoulder down to a 25 cal neck will thicken it more, look for reformed necks in the .015-.017 range . This is a plus in a way as it is enough to allow both a neck ream and neck turn for truly consistent neck wall thickness.
Leaving a slightly longer neck will be a plus with cast boolits and may help increase barrel life. The venturi effect.

The thing to remeber is that the nevk wall can be what you want it to be since you are specing the reamer when its ground.

I would form a few cases to what you want check water capacity and possibly even seat a few bullets. for some dummy rounds. These come i handy as you can send them to the person making the reamer to get dimensions from and input.

My last wildcatt was a shortened and necked down 300 wsm. It is shortened to make a 6.5 X 284 in a shorter fatter package. I first made a make shift set of dies and formed some cases complete. Measured water capacity and compared to some 6.5 X 284 cases I had. Since everyone shooting the 284 told me it was 5-10% overbore I shot for 5% less water capacity. The round looks like a fat 6 ppc. I get 2750-2800 with a 142 grn berger bullet. SD and ES are very low. At one of the testing sessions it put 16 of 20 rounds into 1 1/2" spotting disv at 600yds. I built the test rifle up on a savage 110 action to prove round and idea before going to a true long range action

I then made 500 cases for it and figure that will be enough to burn out the barrel. I loaded 1 case 30 times testing with no loss of accuracy or apparent damage to the case.
These projects van be very rewarding and fun, but be careful when the loading comes up there is no real data or info to work from. In what your wanting try to get some 256 win and 25-20 cases to get water capacity from.

[rockrat]

Sounds like you could take 300 BO/221fireball cases and run them into a 256 win. die and trim/ream and make you a 256win rimless. Another route if too much powder capacity, is to possibly use 30 mauser/7.62x25 brass and neck down. Might be able to cut down 256 win. dies and make it work. Second one seems that it might be what you really want for the velocities you are looking for.

[Goofy]

Easy platform for such things is a TC Contender. Been toying with such a project for several years with a necked down .357 mag case.....30 caliber/185 gr lead. It shoots well, kills the pigs.

[PositiveCaster]

Shortening a .223 action is....not the right solution. Too expensive for a bolt action, not really possible with an AR. A bolt action can use a modded magazine, no need to chop up the action. A flat-nosed bullet might have feeding issues, although the discontinued Speer 75 FN feeds great in my M 1894 in .25-20. Base the cartridge on the .221 Fireball or .300 Blackout and you don’t need neck reaming. I don’t see a real advantage in using a shortened .223 case, but whatever floats your boat.


.

[square butte]

My mind drifts straight towards the 25-35 Winchester . . . But then I am an old fashioned kinda guy

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Long ago I used 221 Fireball to form 256 magnum rimless. There is/was a wildcat 25 Copperhead (25/222) that was popular before the .223. Bob Milek wrote about it I believe.

[richhodg66]

That .25-45 cartridge is a factory thing now. I have been on the fence about getting MGM to make me a Contender barrel for it for exactly the reasons you state. Kind of a .25-20 with cheap and limitless brass.

[Johnch]

I took a look at the 256 magnum rimless and like it for a first try
I think a 700 action should work
But I know where there is a Model 7 that the 223 barrel was ruined by the first owner
He got something stuck in the barrel and there is a slight bulge about 4" from the muzzle
Groups are in the 12 - 16" size

That rifle is in the back of my safe LOL , I have been thinking of making something with it for years

Nice thing about the 256 Win Mag is dies and reamers are out there
So making a rimless should cost me a lot less

Now I just have to start saving some money

Thanks
John

[Jim22]

That .256 rimless idea sounds ideal for an M1 Carbine.

[Duckiller]

Make sure you REALLY want a wildcat. I have a 257Roberts AI that is a great hunting round but it is a pain in the --- to make ammo for. Unless a gun has some sentimal value stick with standard calibers. I have guns in 30 Rem, 32 Win Spec and 348 Win They are great calibers that I can occasionally buy factory ammo or brass for. Much easier to reload.

[jaysouth]

My favorite money pits are boats, restoring old tractors and wildcat cartridges. Wine women and song would be a lot more fun and a lot cheaper.

[rockrat]

Standard calibers are nice, but there is something about taking your wildcat to the range and punching a sub. 1/2 moa group.

Wonder if I could talk Ruger (new Marlin owners) to make a 7mm Ruger Express using the 338 ME case and necking it down to 7mm??

280 Rem performance in a levergun!!!

Pssst--Ruger---I already have the reamer, you can borrow it:-P

[Johnch]

OK a set of 256 Win Mag dies were just loaned to me
Not sure when he will need them back as he has not used the dies in 10 years

So I will just have to save money for the barrel and chambering

Now I just have to get my disability finalized so I will be getting more $$ a month

John

[nseries]

That .25-45 cartridge is a factory thing now. I have been on the fence about getting MGM to make me a Contender barrel for it for exactly the reasons you state. Kind of a .25-20 with cheap and limitless brass.

What's the difference between the .25-45 and .25 TCU, the shoulder?

[c0wb0y84]

There are plenty of other wildcat options if you want to stick with 223 cases and not a ton of work. The 277 Wolverine comes to mind as does the 257 ocelot. I guess its not technically a wildcat but I cut down 223 cases for a 7.62x40WT that makes me smile when I shoot it.

[skeettx]

PLEASE be careful on selecting twist rate
Maybe a 1 in 12 or a 1 in 14 or ????
Mike

p.s. The 25-45 Sharps shoots long bullets and most have a 1 in 8 twist

p.s.s. John, tell the disability board that you know US and it will instantly be granted :)

[dverna]

Seems like a lot of expense and work to shoot rabbits. I doubt you can build a cast bullet small game rifle any more accurate than a decent .22. If you have to shoot cast, download one of those mini Mausers in .300 BO.

Seems like you are contemplating a money pit that will have little appeal to anyone else if/when you tire of it.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Lots of things make people smile, while others call them money pits. If you enjoy it, and it's ethical, enjoy!

[cas]

Is this a .25 Whisper thread? :)