Opinions on 700X for handguns

[Cargo]

I'm wanting to consolidate the powder locker and was considering 700X for handguns and shotguns. My current calibers are .38sp, .357 mag, .9mm, .40 s&w, .45acp, .45lc, 12g and 20g.

What is the general opinion of it?

[Hick]

I've used 700x for 38, 357 and 9mm. Worked very nicely. However, with my powder measure it did not meter well. Metering was the only drawback.

[BigAlofPa.]

700x was the 1st powder i used. Same here did not like how it metered. When i used up the bottle i never replaced it.

[charlie b]

I use it too, 9mm, .45acp and .357. I will try it in my shotgun next time I load for it.

It meters ok in my Lee disk measure, about+/-0.1gn. In the 45acp using 4.9gn as target and Lee 200SWC, got 820fps avg, 50 extreme spread and 15sd.

[USSR]

700-X and Red Dot; both great for both handguns and shotguns. Not the best metering by any means, but I can live with it.

Don

[C.F.Plinker]

I too tried it for 38 and 45 many, many moons ago. I didn't like it because it didn't meter well so I went to WW230 (I said it was a long time ago). My powder or mid-range loads has been 230, later reformulated to 231 ever since.

[dimaprok]

I tried drum type (RCBS and Hornady) and Lee "perfect" powder measure. I will get three or four drops that are within .1gr and than it would throw a .4gr curve ball! I gave up. Why bother, unless I want to weight each charge I got another 10 powders I can use. Its the worst powder for metering. I loaded in electronic measure and use it for 300 blk subsonic rounds with light bullets :) lots of fun and I hear its not position sensitive so I don't get high SD.

PS. I always found flakes left inside pistol barrels.

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[megasupermagnum]

I tried drum type (RCBS and Hornady) and Lee "perfect" powder measure. I will get three or four drops that are within .1gr and than it would throw a .4gr curve ball! I gave up. Why bother, unless I want to weight each charge I got another 10 powders I can use. Its the worst powder for metering. I loaded in electronic measure and use it for 300 blk subsonic rounds with light bullets :) lots of fun and I hear its not position sensitive so I don't get high SD.

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That is about what I see from 700x. While the flakes are not that big, it seems like it doesn't flow as well as some powders. It almost has a grayish look compared to say Unique, which makes me think it has very little graphite compared to some other powders. It is not the worst powder for metering, not even by a long shot. Just about any old rifle stick powder is worse. 800x is even worse yet. Alliant STEEL is the worst of the worst of anything I have tried yet.

I've used 700x quite a bit in handgun rounds. It works very good in light target load applications. For the most part I'm phasing it out in favor of American Select, which seems to be 700x improved, and it meters much more reliably. 700x is a target shotgun powder, and I do still use it a lot in that role, as there is many decades of load data that can only be matched by a couple other powders.

[tankgunner59]

I've used 700X in 9mm and 12 gauge and it worked well with both.

[Dale53]

Many years ago, a good friend who was a reloading business (furnished reloads to various police departments, told me most of the commercial loaders had "red lighted" 700X because it was prone to bad metering. It had a reputation of serious variations. I magnified the 700X of the day, and discovered the reason for poor measurements. The powder grains looked like a "doily" - having ragged edges which caused the problem. I immediately quit using it after it failed to measure properly in a variety of measures. I have never used it since then.

FWIW
Dale53

[P Flados]

700x is a darned good choice for what you want. However, for about the same use I went with Promo.

I have used 700x, Red Dot and Promo (lower cost bulk version of Red Dot, uses the same load data) for handguns and shotguns. All functioned well and do great. All meter about the same and metering is worse with really small charges. I think Promo / Red Dot has an advantage when it comes to load data and/or the ability to get experience based info from actual use.

For most loads, Red Dot / Promo will use a little less powder to get the same velocities as 700x (slightly more rounds per pound). For the Alliant and Hodgdon products, these three plus bullseye and clays are pretty much the best for number of rounds to expect per pound.

I gave up buying small containers of powder long ago. My stash of Promo jugs is part of my plan to get through any shortage.

Promo only comes in 8 lb jugs, but you save a lot compared to Red Dot and a little compared to 700x. Current Powder Valley 8 lb jug prices:

Promo $126.36
700x $134.00
Red Dot $149.34

[dimaprok]

700x is a darned good choice for what you want.
...........
Promo only comes in 8 lb jugs, but you save a lot compared to Red Dot and a little compared to 700x. Current Powder Valley 8 lb jug prices:

Promo $126.36
700x $134.00
Red Dot $149.34

Titegroup is only little bit more $138.50 but I would pick that any day over 700x. When I just started reloading I looked at powders that required the least amount therefore more economical. Later I learned that 1lb of pistol powder goes a long way and ease of metering and consistent ammo is more important than trying to save few bucks. I am not loading pistol ammo on single stage press with a trickler LOL! Progressive press with case and billet feeder!

I am ok with stick powders for a rifle and single stage, I won't be blasting a ton of .308 but for mass 223 production I switched to ball powder.

If there was nothing on the shelf - 700x would be my last choice. I was lucky to get Win 231 in a trade and wow this thing meters very consistent! I loaded 1000's of 9, 40, 45 and 38spl, for 357 I use H110/W296 for max velocity with FMJ

PS. Speaking of all these powders makes me want to go and reload some ammo :) I got this couple 1lb cans of this spanish powder $10/lb to try. Worked fine, clean burning and single digit SD, a little bulky for 9mm though but should be perfect for 38SPL, the guy wanted to sell $8/lb if I bought all 15-20 cans. I didn't, that's OK, got more powder than primers anyway :)


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[megasupermagnum]

Titegroup is only little bit more $138.50 but I would pick that any day over 700x. When I just started reloading I looked at powders that required the least amount therefore more economical. Later I learned that 1lb of pistol powder goes a long way and ease of metering and consistent ammo is more important than trying to save few bucks. I am not loading pistol ammo on single stage press with a trickler LOL! Progressive press with case and billet feeder!

I am ok with stick powders for a rifle and single stage, I won't be blasting a ton of .308 but for mass 223 production I switched to ball powder.

If there was nothing on the shelf - 700x would be my last choice. I was lucky to get Win 231 in a trade and wow this thing meters very consistent! I loaded 1000's of 9, 40, 45 and 38spl, for 357 I use H110/W296 for max velocity with FMJ


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I take it you you have never tested metered 700x vs metered titegroup? I'm not saying titegroup is bad, but I have never been impressed with it one bit. 700x, even with .4 grain swings shoots better than titegroup in most cases for me.

Since the Op specified for handguns and shotguns, I would not recommend titegroup or 231. While there is some titegroup data in 12 gauge, it is very limited. I'm not aware of any 231 loads for shotguns. There are a lot of powders the pull double duty very well, and 700x is near the top of that list. American Select is right up there, as is Red dot. Even Green dot could suffice.

[smkummer]

It will work in all those cartridges. I first got started on 700x when it was sold as surplus 50 cal. blank cartridges. So in addition to all those cartridges, it works as a blank powder to simple fill that cartridge case and applied a card wad. Enough pressure that the primer doesn’t back out.
I went through about 8 lbs. a year when my son was on a trap team. I still use it a lot in 45 acp lead bullet for subguns, 12 and 20 gauge. 38-40, 44-40, 44 special, 45 colt cowboy loads. 9mm lead bullet loads. It works for reduced lead bullet loads for .357 and 44 magnum.
I don’t use it anymore for 38special as my lee auto disk doesn’t meter well below about 3.6 grains, which would work for 38 but I use bullseye, 231 and Win 540 for 38.
Did I say I like 700X?

[ioon44]

I have just used up a 8 lb jug of 700X with 9mm, .40 S&W, 38 spl .44 spl & .45 acp. I load on a Dillon 550 and didn't have much more than a .2 grain swing and shooting off hand properly didn't make any difference.

How any powder meters depends on the powder measure and the skill of the reloader as to how consistent the press is operated.

I am now using Alliant Sport Pistol and get less than .2 grain swing.

[RJM52]

Have been using 700X since the 1960s when I started loading shotgun shells with a Lee Loader... Also loaded tons of .38 Special and 9mm with it...zero issues...

Since it is not the type of powder I "top-end" with the fact that it isn't the greatest at metering is of no concern.... And since my favorite power for every caliber I own is Unique, and we now how badly that one meters", 700-X is just fine...

Bob

[FergusonTO35]

Doesn't meter well, but good practice powder which is usually cheaper than others. Seems to produce more recoil and fouling than others too.

[Cargo]

I picked up two bottles today, so now it's time to experiment. Thanks for the info and opinions, this is a great community.

[Kraschenbirn]

700X meters well thru my old Redding drum measure but not for diddly-squat from either of my Dillons...an upgraded 450 and an SBD with factory measures. Years ago, however, I discovered that the issue with small charges of 700X from slide-type adjustable measure of the 450 seemed to be the shape of the cavity. Back then, I was shooting a lot of IPSC/USPAS-style competitions and going through 20K-25K .45 ACP a year and had quite a bit of 700X on hand from shotgun loading. Thinking about the problem (I know...that can often be dangerous!) I milled a strip of bar stock to match the thickness/width of the Dillon charge bar and made up a half-dozen blanks without cavities. Then, I drilled a test cavity in one of the blanks and reamed it (by trial & error) to drop the charge of 700X that I needed. The round cavities - beveled lightly on the upper side and polished inside - dropped 700X +/- .1 gr. until my on-hand 700X was exhausted. Also made up bars for AA#5 and Unique but haven't used any of them since getting an SBD with tooling for .45, .38/.357, and 9mm.

Bill

[charlie b]

Interesting discovery.

I have an adjustable charge bar for the Lee Auto disk so I tried using it with Blue Dot. Normally Blue Dot with a disk (round cavity) does just fine. When the adjustable bar was set to the charge I wanted the shape of the cavity was oblong. Charges varied by half a grain or more. Went back to the std disk and it was throwing +/- 0.1gn again.

[Shopdog]

Maybe not a "lifetime supply" but,have a pretty durn close amt of 700X here.

Meters great out of Lyman Accumeasures with either,factory or custom rotors. It must be the size of the drums. Just sayin,you're gonna get bored checking consistency on a balance scale before noticing any problems.

It has become my go to powder for short range target 45 loads with 200,and lighter bullets. @ just a smidge under starting,book values. It "seems" to give up a little acc @50yds when giving it more throttling. Have several 45's the two 700 standouts are a series 70 GC,and a fully pro built,compensated Colt/Caspian commander. They both prefer midrange loads of 231 and H&G 68's @50yds.

700X does fair to midlin in 38sp target loads. Actually is better here @midrange velocity,going from WC's to SWC's respectively.

[dverna]

When looking to consolidate powders it depends on your expectations.

When I first started down that road I shot CAS, and Clays did a very good job on both .38 Spl and 12 ga loads. I loaded both pistol and 12 ga. on progressive machines and that was important to me. I will NEVER load pistol calibers on anything slower than a Dillon 550.

Once I moved to Trap shooting, Promo was less expensive and i was loading over 15k shells a year. So about 4-5 jugs a year. Promo was about $75 vs Clays at $110. Not much of a saving, but $150 was worth it. As my pistol use declined, I converted to HP38/231 for pistols as it seems a better pistol powder.

I did not consider 700x as it offered no advantages and I had read about metering issues. I think it is a poor choice to "standardize" on...at least for my needs.

In looking at your choices, determine if maximum performance is your goal. I just need the stuff to go bang and be accurate, so maximum velocity is not much of a criteria. If you are trying to make a minimum Power Factor, that needs to be considered.

My advice, is to study loading manuals and see what powders are the best choices for you calibers. Then factor in availability, and cost (not cost per pound but cost to reload 1000) (4 gr of a $150 powder is the same cost as 5 gr of one at $120). Sometimes a more "expensive" powder is not that much more, provides better metering, better accuracy, and/or greater versatility.

One last thought, if you shoot very much, loading pistols cartridges on a single stage press gets old unless you really enjoy reloading. You will eventually move to a progressive press, so metering is something to consider.

If 700x works for you, stay with it for now. I suggest getting a lb of Red Dot to try as an option for both shotgun and pistil applications.
If it works as well, or better, then consider a jug of Promo. Promo is only available in 8 lb jugs. I know Clays works very well in the .38 target loads and 12 ga Trap loads but never tried it in 9mm, 40 or .45ACP.

[black mamba]

There are several fast, bulky pistol powders that are all very similar in burn rate. 700X, Red Dot, Promo, American Select, e3, to name just some of them. They all do a good job of filling up the cartridge case enough to alleviate double charges, and they all produce good accuracy. I have found American Select to be just a tick slower than the others, and consistently very accurate, but they all work well. My old RCBS powder measure keeps them all within about .2 gr. which is plenty accurate enough for pistol cartridges. I bought a large canister of 700X a few years back, so am very familiar with its ways. If that's what you have, you're in good shape for target loads.

[dbosman]

I used to use it in pistol loads. I find it metered fine, for me, in an RCBS Little Dandy dispenser that uses fixed cavity rotors. I switched to Red Dot, though because C.E. (Ed) Harris did testing that I trust, for reduced rifle loads using Red Dot.
I used to use 700-X in .30-06 loads, because it was the only powder I had, for a few years in my teens.