Gas check to big?

[BUFFALOW RED]

I got a new Lee double mold throw's 184 gr .313 for 303British.
First session cast around 500 nice boolits , got out the Hornady 30 cal gas checks and they seam to big to grab shank.
Do I have wrong checks?
Are there different size .30 cal check s?
I searched for ansers but post I found were a bout checks to small

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I size my 303 boolits in a 0.316" die and use 8mm gas checks. They really crimp on.

[BUFFALOW RED]

So 8 mm checks would be bigger than 30 cal Hornady I think.
The base of my boolits is to small for 30 cal

[mehavey]

Have you actually installed the GC and sized the bullet... and the GC is still loose/comes off?

[BUFFALOW RED]

Not sized,
as Cast is .3125 so I don't want it smaller in diameter

[Dusty Bannister]

Do the bullet shanks have sharp well filled out bases or are they slightly rounded? If your bullets are shiny and not completely filled out, that could result in an undersized shank. If you are sizing the bullet to .313" and use a check intended for a .310" application, it might not be crimping the check enough to grip the shank.

[BUFFALOW RED]

If you are sizing the bullet to .313" and use a check intended for a .310" application, it might not be crimping the check enough to grip the shank.

I think this might be the problem. Check seems to small on outside while to big on inside at same time.
Maybe there are checks for 312-313 . I need to check on this possible solution
THANKS for your input

[megasupermagnum]

Not sized,
as Cast is .3125 so I don't want it smaller in diameter
You have to size them, that is the only way I know to make gas checks fit. They are supposed to fit on easy, then crimp onto the shank. Sages sells both .015" thick and .017" thick 30 caliber gas checks. I've used both to good effect on .314" sized bullets.

Try a .313" sizer.

[Larry Gibson]

You have the right GCs. I've 2 of those moulds [older original design single cavity and newer design double cavity] and have never had a C fit problem. I agree with post #5, the bases are probably not filled out leaving the GC shank too small. Years ago when I started casting I found the same problem. I found it was not the GCs or the moulds fault but my own in not casting correctly.

What alloy?

Dipper or bottom pour?

Alloy temp?

[mehavey]

Not sized,
as Cast is .3125 so I don't want it smaller in diameterNo GC is going to stay on until sized on.
As MegaSuper suggests, run it through a 0.313 sizer and you'll get the GC to crimp/stay on.

[BUFFALOW RED]

You have the right GCs. I've 2 of those moulds [older original design single cavity and newer design double cavity] and have never had a C fit problem. I agree with post #5, the bases are probably not filled out leaving the GC shank too small. Years ago when I started casting I found the same problem. I found it was not the GCs or the moulds fault but my own in not casting correctly.

What alloy?

Dipper or bottom pour?

Alloy temp?

WW + 6" solder added per 20 lb pot bottom pour. droped in water as coming out of mold . turkey thermometer go's to 550 i have good results on pistol casting when needle is 1/2 way past 550 going towards 0. pretty much strait down

[BUFFALOW RED]

well im going out to measure have to reply back later with more info
THANKS

[mehavey]

The colder you (successfully) cast, the larger the eventual diameter all round.
Be that as it may, however, you're going to have to size ( .313") those gas check on to stay.

[Bookworm]

I had a problem with copper checks not staying on after being crimped.

Annealing the checks prior to installing solved the problem.

I just put the checks on a piece of ceramic tile, and heated them with a propane torch. Got them glowing, back to dead soft.

Problem went away.

[Larry Gibson]

WW + 6" solder added per 20 lb pot bottom pour. droped in water as coming out of mold . turkey thermometer go's to 550 i have good results on pistol casting when needle is 1/2 way past 550 going towards 0. pretty much strait down

Try turning up the temp a bit more. Allow the alloy to boil back out of the sprue hole and let a good sprue for....even I alloy rolls off the mould.

[Screwbolts]

What Larry says above /\ crank up the heat and let the alloy boil out.

[BUFFALOW RED]

the Boolits seem to be filled out well i feel. they measure .313. my bore is .3135- .314 , im concerned that starting out 1/2-1 thousandth smaller than barrel might be a problem.

the boolit shank measures .283 from the new double mold
the gas check inside measures .2855
the boolit shank measures .288 on the old single mold

[BUFFALOW RED]

269565
from new double mold
shank measures .283

[BUFFALOW RED]

so i'm looking at the Lee sizer do i want the .313 or the .314 sizing die?
as my barrel is .3135-.314
seems like the boolit should be .314 or biger before sizing or im i thinking wrong here?
THANKS FOR ALL Y'ALLS HELP

[BUFFALOW RED]

269566
FROM OLD SINGLE MOLD
note the height of shank compared to double mold
shank measures .288

[45workhorse]

I had a problem with copper checks not staying on after being crimped.

Annealing the checks prior to installing solved the problem.

I just put the checks on a piece of ceramic tile, and heated them with a propane torch. Got them glowing, back to dead soft.

Problem went away.

Another way, cast iron skillet on top of a turkey fryer. Drop in wait for them to change color, dead soft. YMMV

[BUFFALOW RED]

Ordered a Tell Tru thermometor today

[Texas Gun]

Your mold might be messed up if it’s a Lee I ordered a Lee one time and it was undersized it was supposed to drop a .324 but dropped a .314

[BUFFALOW RED]

I m sure you are right will contact them Monday

[fcvan]

I have several checkmaker dies and use a different thickness of Amerimax Aluminum to make checks depending on the mold. I cut the strips of aluminum (usually 10) grab the strips with vise grips, and dunk them in the lead pot. 15 to 20 seconds and strips are annealed, then I make checks.

I don't shoot a lot of rifle right now except .223, and that is a plain base boolit designed for powder coating. The little buggers kill tin cans. I hated making 22 gas checks so much I bought a bunch from a vendor here. I've got about 10 pounds of Lyman 225-415 cast and PCd, and about 20 pounds of the NOE 225-62 RN cast and coated.

All of my .308 W and 30-06 is loaded, and I have a stockpile of boolits cast. I also have a 7.65 x 53 Argentinian Mauser that needs testing. I already have cast and coated for that, just waiting for the opportunity. The 7.65 boolit has a fat shank so I used thinner aluminum.

[megasupermagnum]

Not sized,
as Cast is .3125 so I don't want it smaller in diameter

Am I missing something? Are you, or are you not running these bullets through a sizing die?

[mehavey]

We've already suggested a .313 sizing die to crimp the GC (but not further size the bullet itself)
....but have received no answer.

[BUFFALOW RED]

I have not ordered a sizeing die yet need to decide if I need a .313 or .314 die. My barrel is .3135-.314
The mold throw's .3125-.313

[BUFFALOW RED]

Got new Tru thermometor Wednesday.

[Conditor22]

OK, bore .3135-.314. mold throw's .3125-.313, you need .3145-.316

1) you could (should lap/polish your mold to increase its diameter by several thou.)
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/MoldMods/LeementingKitDocumentation.pdf
you say the GC is too big so increasing the mold diameter will help that also. I'd shoot for at least .315 or take up powdercoating (which is an easy way to add .002+ in diameter

2) hotter alloy produces more shrinkage and smaller boolits (better fill out) adding more tin will also improve fill out at a lower temperature

[megasupermagnum]

I have not ordered a sizeing die yet need to decide if I need a .313 or .314 die. My barrel is .3135-.314
The mold throw's .3125-.313

Then you don't have a problem with the gas check. They are supposed to fit on easy, then the sizer crimps them down to size. You will need a bigger bullet though. The first thing is to follow the previous advice to make absolutely sure you are getting the best fillout possible. If that doesn't work, look up beagling a mold, which is simply adding aluminum tape to shim the mold apart. You should be able to pick up .002". I would start by sizing .316".

[BUFFALOW RED]

so i called
lee they said to apply notebook paper to mold surface useing lube as adhesive to get a bigger boolit they said the out of round would not matter. sounds crazy
should i get a 314 sizer r what youall think

i see now were you recommened a 316 sizer sorry i mised that first time

[BUFFALOW RED]

i think ill try the lapping first.
got enough alox for life time {4 bottles} so didnt realy want to invest in shake & bake

[charlie b]

I lapped my Lee molds to get a better fit to my bore. Worked well, even though the bullets were slightly out of round. They fit the bore and that was what made the difference.

[megasupermagnum]

No, do not try lapping first. It is irreversible. If you try anything, try beagling, which is 100% reversible. I'm sure they come out somewhat out of round, but you can gain .002" and still be relatively round. They will be perfect after sizing.

See the link below, post #12, a picture worth 1000 words. That is aluminum tape with adhesive on it. It works great.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?94568-how-do-you-beagle-a-mold

[mehavey]

PLEASE.... before the OP does ANYthing at this agonizing point.

- CAST the bullets at as low a temp as you can to get sharp fillout.
- BUY a cheap $19 0.314 Lee sizer (https://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-90044-SIZING-314/dp/B00162RTXW)
- SIZE the gas check on and lube it w/ whatever you wish....

SHOOT it.
and then tell us the results.

[BUFFALOW RED]

Ok I'll try that first

[BUFFALOW RED]

with new tru temp thermometer i cast Boolits at 650 and again at 700 degrees both came out at .313 so i gained .0005-maybe .001 in diameter.
im still .001 smaller than bore.
called Lee they said put tae in mold & cast out of round boolits.
sounds inaccurate to me. ordered a .314 sizeing die now waiting.

[megasupermagnum]

with new tru temp thermometer i cast Boolits at 650 and again at 700 degrees both came out at .313 so i gained .0005-maybe .001 in diameter.
im still .001 smaller than bore.
called Lee they said put tae in mold & cast out of round boolits.
sounds inaccurate to me. ordered a .314 sizeing die now waiting.

No it isn't. It is referred to as Beagling a mold around here. I posted a link above. You can gain at least .002" doing it, and bullets will NOT be .002" out of round. It is the #1 recommended way to gain a small amount of extra diameter.

[Conditor22]

I never could wrap my head around where "Beagleling" (putting foil tape on the mold surface (s) to make the cavity bigger could:
1) produce round boolits
2) not have major finning

it's too easy to polish the mold to your desired size (this take a little time, go a little, warm the mold cast some boolits measure them then go more (If needed)

aluminum will polish faster than steel. I usually use Flitz polish

[megasupermagnum]

I never could wrap my head around where "Beagleling" (putting foil tape on the mold surface (s) to make the cavity bigger could:
1) produce round boolits
2) not have major finning

it's too easy to polish the mold to your desired size (this take a little time, go a little, warm the mold cast some boolits measure them then go more (If needed)

aluminum will polish faster than steel. I usually use Flitz polish

Well... it does. I'm sure they are slightly out of round, but we are talking less than .001" here, unless the mold was worse than that to begin with. I've done it on a few molds. They grow concentrically, and I have not had any finning.

Lapping out a mold on the other hand is not easy. I tried on a nice old NEI mold. I took my time, thought I did a good job. I now have a "mold" that casts bullets .007" out of round, and even with sizing the low spot still isn't as big as I need it to be. That mold is *****. I sure wish I had just left the aluminum tape in there. Lapping is an art best left for a talented hand, not a beginner.

[BUFFALOW RED]

Got sizer in today .314 puts gas checks on & barely touches boolits made with single mold.
The double ones boolits slide- fall through .
I gas checked several from single mold & rolled in alox letting it dry tomorrow I'll put more lube on to load some. Still have the double mold to try with tape bugleing.

[BUFFALOW RED]

The low temp boolits from single mold will size 314 should work, body is under size of bore though. pushing a tapered punch in to open up case to get gas checks in. Lee die stops at 311
Found out 4759 is done guess ill use up what i have left trying different boolits.
then do it again with some replacement powder.

[BUFFALOW RED]

Loaded today to get book length of .293 had a land and lube Grove hanging out

[mehavey]

...rolled in alox letting it dry tomorrow I'll put more lube on to load some....You do not have to apply more ALOX at this point.
Even the thinnest coat is more than enough... just "greasy fingers"
More... just takes longer to dry .... and is actually counterproductive.