H&R Action Opening

[brad925]

Just got my new H&R BC in 45-70. I havn't shot it yet but have heard of some having problems with the action opening when fired and wondering if anyone else has. Also if they had and had it fixed what the problem was and what was done.

[IcerUSA]

Haven't had that peoblem with mine yet , but I have less than 300 rounds thru it , 20 of them being factory loads for brass .

Keith

[garandsrus]

Brad,

There is a very active H&R forum at http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/. There is a FAQ section that answers most any question you could have about Hand Rifles.

I have several Handi's and several additional barrels. I have the 38-55 Buffalo Classic and like it a lot. I think I have only had a rifle open once when I was firing it. I probably didn't close it securely...

John

[SwedeNelson]

Have a good friend that had the problem.
He also has bear paw hands. His thumb would hit the barrel release
on recoil and open the action ejecting the spent case.
Changed his hold and the problem went away.

Swede Nelson

[OBXPilgrim]

If the barrel locking lug does not have very much engagement it can happen.

If you mark the face of the barrel lug with a black marker, then open & close the action, you'll be able to see the amount of engagement. Seems the amount varies considerably, but you should have around .080"-.125". Hopefully it engages all the way across as well. If it only touches on one side, be sure to tell us how it shoots - seen a few the had terrible accuracy that only locked up on one side.

Also, make sure there isn't any oil on the lug.

[Tom W.]

And don't do as I did. I failed to trim my brass on my .270 and the thing would pop open almost every shot. Trimmed the brass and the problem left. I dunno what I was thinking...

[brad925]

Thanks for the replies, i appreciate the information.

[brad925]

If the barrel locking lug does not have very much engagement it can happen.

If you mark the face of the barrel lug with a black marker, then open & close the action, you'll be able to see the amount of engagement. Seems the amount varies considerably, but you should have around .080"-.125". Hopefully it engages all the way across as well. If it only touches on one side, be sure to tell us how it shoots - seen a few the had terrible accuracy that only locked up on one side.

Also, make sure there isn't any oil on the lug.

I checked mine out and it appears to engage aboue .050". It also engages all the way across so i have my fingers crossed. It might wear in aswell. My o/u shotgun was the same.The more i shot it the more engagement of the lug.

[725]

I had the problem OBXPilgrim described. I marked it to show me the trace contacts, figured out that it need more and VERY judiciously polished / filed the lug engagement area until I got more. Now it locks up as tight as can be. Too little engagement and recoil would pop it open. Unnerveing. You can test the action, of sorts, by an open handed slap under the hinge area. At least it worked for me.

[brad925]

I checked the egagement on mine and it seemed to be a little shy but i ran 40 rds through it anyway. No problems with it opening. I checked it again and the engagement improved. I went to Greybeards site and was told to make sure that the lug area is kept dry. Any lube here can also cause the same problem.

[littlejack]

Mine flew open with heavy loads, with the lug dry. I fixed the problem though; (I unloaded it. )As, got a refund.
Jack

[Gunfreak25]

I have a 12 gauge Parder model. Fired hundreds of shells through it with no problem. Months ago I fired it for the first time in over a year. I was using some shells a friend gave to me. They weren't reloads they were factory ammo, labeled "Universal" by Winchester.
I fired 2 shells but stopped after that because the action was opening up after firing.

I did notice this ammo had substantially more recoil than the normal skeet loads I'd been using with zero issues. My guess is that's what caused the barrel to open up.

[Cap'n Morgan]

did notice this ammo had substantially more recoil than the normal skeet loads I'd been using with zero issues. My guess is that's what caused the barrel to open up.

You're right about the recoil. The recoil causes the gun to move backward, and when the gun is stopped by the shoulder, the inertia force yanks the locking lug out of engagement - especially if the gun is worn or the spring is weak.
My trusty ol' Winchester mod 37 punt gun - mounted on the deck of my sneak boat- does it every time. Makes for a faster reloading :wink:

[Blammer]

I had that happen on my NEF, when it was brand new! 2 shots later it was back to NEF. They fixed it and sent it back, no problems at all now.

[Nobade]

My 45-70 BC used to do this. It never opened with smokeless loads, (never loaded it very hot) but would do so with black powder loads. I could fire a few and then it would start to open. Once I cleaned it, it was fine for a while and then would start to open again. I'm pretty sure it was due to fouling and bullet lube on the locking surfaces. I finally got tired of that and sold it, and haven't looked back since.

[EMC45]

Never had it happen on my 45-70, but on my .223 it did when I loaded an 80gr. Jacketed. It flattened the primers and had a good bit of recoil for a .223. Kinda hot. Never did it with 50-55 gr. bullets. I have loaded my 45-70 to the gunnels to the point of painful recoil and it never did open once.

[Ben]

At one time, I thought that I'd like to own an H & R, the more I read about this issue, the less I think I want one ...........

[Junior1942]

At one time, I thought that I'd like to own an H & R, the more I read about this issue, the less I think I want one ...........I've fired 100s of 45-70 and 12 ga rounds through mine and never had a problem.

[Freightman]

I've fired 100s of 45-70 and 12 ga rounds through mine and never had a problem.

Me to!

[brad925]

I have 100 plus rds through my B.C now without a problem.

[leftiye]

Stronger lockimg lug sprink. (to fight recoil) I think that I read on a guy's treatise on accurizing Handis that the stronger locking lug spring helps out in that department too. Deeper, more consistent lockup.

[MikeP]

I've had a .30-30 and presently have a 12 gauge and two .45-70s. None has ever opened on me during the past 40 years.

I also have a Thompson-Center Contender, and although it has never opened on me, I've read that some others have had them do so. All were easily fixed with barrel adjustments.

I think it's just the nature of the break-open beast. They are simple, reliable, but not flawless, just like any other manmade thing.

[Lucky Joe]

You want to keep the locking lug (shelf) as oil free as possible. At least that's what I've been told and that's what I do. I have no problems, I like the Handi's.

[dualsport]

Ditto. I have several, never had any problems opening up on me, rifles or shotguns. They're good cheap fun, can be very accurate.

[JIMinPHX]

The latch up on a Handi-Rifle always seemed a bit hokey to me. If you don't snap them shut smartly, then the latch usually doesn't engage all the way. That scares me a bit. I'm always sure to make sure that I snap them shut with a crisp, positive move every time. I've never had one open up on me, even when shooting 7mm Rem Express, which is a fairly hot cartridge.

The first time I fooled with a Handi, I thought that it wasn't fit up right. Then, when I sent it back to the factory to get another barrel fit to it, the new one showed up fit the same way. I guess that's just the way that they do them. If it were me fitting the gun up, I think that I'd leave an extra 3 or 4 thousandths of clearance so that it would lock up more reliably, but I'm not the factory guy on that one. They may know something about the design that I don't. There may be a reason that they do things the way they do.

I thought that maybe over time, the breach latch might break in, but after more than 20 years of use, I don't see any real change in the fit.

[northmn]

Owned a few and never remember any trouble with them, still have a 20 gauge that woeks well even with 3 inch. Only complaint of sorts i ahve ahd with Handi-rilfes is that I had my chimes rang by an ejcted case until I learned to look out for it.

Northmn

[Gelandangan]

I have a BC 45/70
if I use the Trail Boss recipe from Hodgon it will ALWAYS pop open.
If I use "THE LOAD" (13gn of RED DOT) the same is happening.

Using any other load they are OK, even hot loads 2000fps+ on 500gn projectile.

I think it is due to sharp recoil on faster burning powder on the lug that made it pops open.

[nicholst55]

I've fired about 250 rounds through my BC .45-70 - all with (real) black powder; it hasn't popped open to date.

Personally, I don't think these guns would be as popular as they are if this represented a serious problem. But that's just me.