.25 Bullberry?

[jason280]

I'm in the process of picking up a 14" T/C Contender barrel in .25 Bullberry, hope to have it end of next week. For those unfamiliar, its simply a .30-30 case necked down to .25 caliber....which means forming/finding brass shouldn't be an issue. I have no idea what I am going to do with the barrel, but should be fun to play around with. I have several hundred 117gr BTSP .25 cal bullets I can load up to try, but looks like the case is really better suited for 87-100gr bullets.

Anyone familiar with the round, or at least load for it? Load data seems to be pretty limited, which isn't too unexpected for a relatively uncommon wildcat. Good thing is, it likes powder in the 4895/4064 burn rate, which I have plenty of on the shelf.

[Kylongrifle32]

Bullberry has load data on there site. I had a 6mm Bullberry for awhile. I'm a big fan of IMR powders and 4064 is what I use primarily in my 7-30 Waters. I just reduced load data for the 7-30 Waters by 10% to use as a starting base for the 6mm BB.

[jason280]

Interesting on the 7-30, I also have one in a Super 14 Contender barrel that I haven't started loading for. I found a deal on 5x boxes of old stock Federal 120gr flat points, but will eventually load some 120gr ballistic tips.

[Rick Hodges]

I use Nosler 120 BT's and Speer 130 gr. spbt and plain base spitzers in my 7x30 Waters in a 21" Bullberry barrel.

[SOFMatchstaff]

30/30 necked down to .25?? Sounds like a 25/35 win to me.I have had a factory T/C 25/35 Win barrel for years and it doesnt seem to care what bullet weights I use, shoots them all well. Lots of load data for the 25/35, I use mostly 3031 and 100 gr spire points.

[Kylongrifle32]

SOFMatchstaff I was going to refer OP to the 25-35 comparison also but did not want to disappoint him. Looking up load data for a 25-35 would compair to me like when I was looking for 32-20 loads data for a T/C Contender. All I could find was low pressure loads for older weaker lever action rifles shooting 80-95 grain bullets at 800-950 fps. I was pleased to find that in a modern day firearm and pistol powders you could squeeze so much out of the little 32-20. Just like the 25-35 has more to offer like what the other 25 diameter based 30-30 wildcats have.

[35remington]

Hopefully you have the G2 frame.

[jason280]

Hopefully you have the G2 frame.

Why do you say that? Its not a requirement based on Bullberry themselves, and I've seen no other mention anywhere else claiming you needed a G2 frame for this barrel.

[35remington]

As an owner of both frame types, I said that because the original has some limitations that are oft not discussed. Pressure testing for wildcat cartridges is hard to find.

The original has thin frame sidewalls, and it is often not discussed enough with wildcatting. Cartridges of 30-30 head size are often handloaded in Contenders with wildcat cartridges that have no standardized pressure spec, as this one does not, and it is possible to load them to higher levels than the frame can take for long term use.

The G2 gives more room for error when loading for a cartridge where pressures developed are guessed at when other than listed bullets are used and when in an overall sense little to no pressure tested data is available. It is possible to exceed the frame limits without being aware things are going south unless you are attuned to subtle indicators.

The G2 frame was the best thing that happened to wildcat Contender chamberings ever, and TC developed it because fixing sprung frames was a tiresome thing. The standard frame is no longer offered which is something to ponder.

In any event the 25 Bullberry in a pistol length barrel should fall well short of 25-35 rifle ballistics. I have considerable data on it from a past Handloader article. The 7-30 Waters is a little much for the standard Contender frame in my opinion, being a semi wildcat with not much data extant. And I own a 7-30 Waters barrel and handload for it extensively. It is easy to get into too much pressure for the standard frame with it for the mentioned reasons.

Just an opinion expressed by an owner of Contenders in standardized and wildcat calibers. I like extra margin when I am loading cartridges that don’t have much cross referenced data.

Since the G2 became available it seems to be especially dicey to push wildcat cartridges in standard frames well beyond the SAAMI pressure specs of the factory cartridges on which they are based when housed in the original Contender frame. The 30-30 is held to a SAAMI spec of around 42,000 psi. If the wildcat data is developing pressure well above that, and some of it is, best to contextualize and tread carefully. I do that when using the G2 for wildcats.

I own several Bullberry barrels myself.

[jason280]

I understand your hesitation, but my intention isn't to push the envelope with the .25 BB (or any other barrel for that matter). In fact, Bullberry themselves speak of this at some length on their page, so staying within the limits of a pre-G2 frame shouldn't be an issue.

https://www.bullberry.com/bullberry-cartridge-loading-data

[35remington]

Note that the pressures listed “do not exceed 48,00 psi.” At least with the equipment they used, which was calibrated in a way that was not elaborated upon, so I have my doubts to some degree about whether those psi figures are corrected to actual or not.

Even if accurate this is 6k more than SAAMI spec, which is a lot, for the 30-30 case. Throw in possible experimentation with bullet weights they do not list and ultimately not knowing what the actual pressure is for these and other loadings is the reason for liking the G2 option.

The velocities they claim for the 25 Bullberry are well in excess of what the 25-35 gets in the same barrel lengths and there has to be considerably more pressure in so doing. At a minimum they already admit there is.

They do not make anything but the G2 frame anymore, so my standard frames get relegated to non wildcats held to lower pressures in the larger diameter cartridges and the small cartridges like 25-20.

When little data is available not intending to push the envelope and pushing the envelope may be the same thing. Not saying it will happen every time, but that it may occur.

I shoot a lot, experiment with loading non standard calibers such that pressures are not precisely known (little in the way of exact loadings to follow) and this policy seems prudent to me. If something more durable is available it is on my must have list when uncertainty is involved, but that is me doing me.