What am I doing wrong?

[walker77]

So I haven't cast in about 6 years. I got a silencer and figured I would try casting subsonic 300 blackout.

The mold I got is the NOE mold 311-247. The mold has been cleaned 3 times now with alcohol, brake cleaner and dish soap (tonight). But I keep getting wrinkled bullets. The picture below is the best looking one.

I'm going to powder coat. So does these imperfections even matter?

Also my lead is 750 degrees and my mold sits on a hot plate on Med for about 20 mins.



268930

[Tripplebeards]

Doesn’t look like your mold is hot enough. I rest my mold on top of my lee pot for a good 20 minutes before casting and I still have to cycle a couple dozen boolits or more to get hot enough.

[toallmy]

Possibly restricted flow of alloy while casting . If you’re casting at 750 with a preheated mold .

[leadhead]

You should heat and cool cycle the mold at least 3 times.
Buy this I mean, heat to operating temperature then let it cool back
to room temperature. Do this 3 different times.
By the way.... isn't shooting cast bullets thru a silencer bad
for it. Heard it will load it up lead. I don't know for sure.
Denny

[walker77]

You should heat and cool cycle the mold at least 3 times.
Buy this I mean, heat to operating temperature then let it cool back
to room temperature. Do this 3 different times.
By the way.... isn't shooting cast bullets thru a silencer bad
for it. Heard it will load it up lead. I don't know for sure.
Denny

I sure hope it doesn't mess up the silencer. I dropped $1,500 on it! :shock:

Ive been talking to a guy on another forum that uses the same mold with no problems with his silencer. He also powder coats his.

Ill try heating up the mold a few more times. Anyone know what temp I should shoot for on the hot plate?

I appreciate everyone's help!

[toallmy]

You can heat cycle your mold in a oven , but remove the handles first . Start out room temperature mold and oven Heat to 350-400 for a half hour And let completely cool before doing again NOE makes nice molds you shouldn’t have any trouble casting with your new mold if it’s preheated , and alloy is up to 750 .
Brass or aluminum just asking

[Wayne Smith]

What I've read it is the lube that is the problem with silencers. PC is fine. I'd toss that one back and find out why your mold isn't working as you want. Heat and rapid refill to maintain heat is the issue for most. We want to admire rather than immediately refill the mold. Thus the mold cools and we get wrinkled boolits. Empty the mold, refill, let the color of the sprue change, wait three seconds, cut the sprue and dump, refill, and repeat until you have more boolits than you think you need. Then when they are cool start tossing back the ones that look like the one you posted. I think you will find you keep more than you toss back.

[walker77]

Brass or aluminum just asking

5 cavity aluminum

[ascast]

when all else fails ( IF ) add more tin to improve fluidity. Maybe your mix is just a bit off. Maybe cast at 800.

[dangitgriff]

Wrinkles? Maybe you’re using old lead...[emoji1783]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201007/29329beba2ff66c34c9ccda04b8da9ab.jpg

[Texas Gun]

My guess would be he did not clean the mold well enough

[BK7saum]

I have and cast with that mold in solid and hollow point form. It is likely that your mold is still a little cool and your flow into the cavities is probably a little slower than it needs to be.

[Larry Gibson]

Possibly restricted flow of alloy while casting . If you’re casting at 750 with a preheated mold .

^^^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^^^

You're not getting the alloy into the cavity fast enough. Open up the spout on the bottom pour or pour faster if a dipper. With long skinny bullets like that one pour fast enough that the alloy boils back out of the cavity and a good sprue forms even if some runs off the mould. No need for 750 degrees with a 5 cavity aluminum mould. Suggest 710 - 725 as measured with a thermometer.

[Bashby]

How many boolits did you cast and how fast were you casting them? I just started casting for 300 bo also. I got a 31-215E mold from Accurate. My first boolits were wrinkly like that. I tried smoking them, but I think what worked was to get them good and hot. At first my spues were hard to cut (mold too cold). I cast 20-30 pretty fast, a few times I poured a bunch extra hot lead on the sprue plate, let it sit for 3-4 seconds, then cut the sprue. Eventually I got it hot enough to cast mostly keepers.
Here’s my mold.
268939
Here are some boolits with PC.
268940

[megasupermagnum]

I do not think it is a cleanliness problem. If it was, it would be over most of the bullet. Even if it was, it would burn out eventually. No, your problem is either heat or flow. Assuming you are using a thermometer, 750 degrees should be hot enough for the melt. It wouldn't hurt anything to try it a little hotter, but probably not needed. The big concern is your mold temperature. The mold temp is controlled by your casting pace. Sometimes it helps to start with the melt hot, say 780, and then turn it down once your mold temp is where you need it to be. The other way is to cast as quickly as possible, within reason, until it is casting good.

Also very likely is you are getting poor flow into the mold. The most likely culprit is as mentioned above. You are not filling the mold fast enough. You don't want a trickle into the mold. You want to fill it up quick. You want that in rush of metal to force its way in there under gravity, and overcome surface tension of the metal, so it fills the entire mold. I fill as quick as possible, and keep it flowing on the hole until there is a generous puddle on the sprue plate.

[walker77]

The pour out of my Lyman pot looks good. But ill take a look at it this weekend to see if the spout needs cleaned.

This is also the first time I've cast rifle bullets. I've always cast pistol in the past.

[LenH]

When I first started with rifle bullets in an NOE Aluminum mold. It took a couple of times to get good bullets. I found that the small diameter bullets molds like
to be rocket hot and I push the melt to about 725 and cast fast and make sure the stream is directly under the spout. Don't stop to examine the bullets keep casting
and sort later. You can also lay the mold sprue plate down on the hot plate and make sure it is up to temp.

[6622729]

Possibly restricted flow of alloy while casting . If you’re casting at 750 with a preheated mold .

Exactly. Too slow of flow and/or not directly going into the hole.

[6622729]

^^^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^^^

You're not getting the alloy into the cavity fast enough. Open up the spout on the bottom pour or pour faster if a dipper. With long skinny bullets like that one pour fast enough that the alloy boils back out of the cavity and a good sprue forms even if some runs off the mould. No need for 750 degrees with a 5 cavity aluminum mould. Suggest 710 - 725 as measured with a thermometer.

Agree with this as well. I don't see need for anything above 725 for this bullet. I don't see the need to heat cycle the mold or to clean it further. I don't see a need ffor more tin. That defect in the picture is a typical one for not filling the cavity fast enough or directly enough. I can duplicate it in any mold if I just dribble the lead into the cavity or if I fill the cavity but miss the center of the hole and the lead just rolls in. Easy to duplicate, easy to fix.

[BK7saum]

Bullets that are as tall as they are wide are much easier to cast without wrinkles. As stated, long skinny bullets need a much quicker flow rate in order to fill the cavity before the alloy starts to solidify. I battled wrinkles with these molds for a while before I figured that out and cast much quicker and open my Lee pot up to the maximum flow from a full pot

[Jpholla]

If you look closely, you can see what happened is that the small incoming stream of lead touched the side of the mold and solidified. As the lead filled the mold, it formed around the solidified part rather than incorporating it wholly into the mass. In my experience, a little more heat can fix this, as can a faster fill rate, a faster casting cadence, smoking the mold, pressure casting, changing distance of drop from pot to sprue-plate, angle of mold, or where the stream hits the sprue-plate. There's more than one way to skin a cat. The edges of the driving bands are kind of rounded and frosty, which will likely clear up when you solve the other problem, but the suggestion of more tin to balance out the antimony may not hurt. I've noticed some molds simply like to do this. I have a Lee .45 truncated cone 230gr mold that has always wanted to do this in all six cavities. I don't know why, it just does. I just experiment to find a mold's particular personality, until I find out what works best.

[Tripplebeards]

I always end up pouring to hot. But when I do I slowly rotate my handle from side to side “ agitating in little circles some times like a beaker” while the lead is still completely melted to make sure I worked our any air pockets in my boolits.

[Four-Sixty]

My opinion is that there is a contamination problem. From the picture, the grain structure is well defined, so I think the mold and melt temperature were adequate. From the appearance of the driving bands, it appears they are even a bit too frosty making them less sharp than they could be. It could be you were even a bit too hot.

I'd try casting over a longer period to work the oils out of the pores of the cavities. Don't clean with the brake cleaner anymore, and experiment with smoking the cavities when the mold is hot, after you've tried running it awhile and find the wrinkles have not quite gone away.

[bakerjw]

I am new, but when I see that, I think cold mold.
My last batch of 45s took a few seconds for the sprue to completely harden on the sprue cutting plate. After that, all of my bullets started coming out real good.
I'd recommend running a dozen or so through the mold and let some mold sit on the sprue cutter to heat it as well. After all, you can just melt them again.

[walker77]

I believe the problem is heat or pour rate. How hot should I have the mold?

[Tripplebeards]

I don’t measure the heat of the mold. I just keep pouring some test boolits till get complete fill out. Some times it takes a good 20 plus frustrating minutes to starting getting good fill outs. Do you add any pewter or tin to your mix? I do as I’ve been told it aids in complete fill outs. Some times I pour lead into the mold abs let it sit and heat up before dumping boolits. Hot lead sitting in the cavities for a few minutes heats my molds up pretty fast. A couple times of letting bullets sit in the mold a few times in row speeds the heating process up for me.

[JoeJames]

Bullets that are as tall as they are wide are much easier to cast without wrinkles. As stated, long skinny bullets need a much quicker flow rate in order to fill the cavity before the alloy starts to solidify. I battled wrinkles with these molds for a while before I figured that out and cast much quicker and open my Lee pot up to the maximum flow from a full potI have not been doing it long, but I really noticed the stream was weak when I gave up and drained the pot into an ingot mold. Instead of nice solid ingots, I was ending up with what looked like the result of a lava flow. Then I bit the boolit (figuratively speaking) and cleaned the fire out of the pot and the spout. When casting again, I first increased the amount of alloy to about 6 pounds in my 10# pot, got the pot temperature up enough that the excess was kind of frosty on top of the sprue plate, and then I'd wait a few seconds after that. Finally I started getting boolits that looked like they were supposed to look. Also used a small allen wrench in a pair of needle nose vice grips to keep the spout cleaned out while casting. I know this is old hat to most of y'all but it is still mighty fresh in my mind.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Long skinny boolits are the most troublesome to cast.
You have been given many good tips. Hot mold and strong stream from Pot should get you in the right direction. Keep trying, practice makes perfect...you'll soon learn what that particular mold wants...be sure to keep good notes, so you'll have that info next time.

[JoeJames]

I may be wrong on this, but it also appears to me that you don't need to be miserly on the amount of alloy in the pot. Seems to me the more in the pot the stronger the stream. I already stated that above but it sure worked better for me when I had 6 pounds or more in there than just a couple of pounds.

[Conditor22]

Anytime I get wrinkles in a new mold I wait until it cools, them scrub it out with dawn dish soap and a denture brush/tooth brush.

IF you didn't heat cycle the mold that is another good place to start.

were getting to the nitty gritty now.
what alloy are you using?
"sits on a hot plate on Med for about 20 mins." I pre warm my molds to 400°
are the wrinkles/inclusions always in the same place?
To help limit inclusions and incomplete fill-outs pour a little lead into the catch container under the spout (to clear the spout so you don't get the cooler drip into the cavity) every time just before you start filling the mold

How cold is the area your casting in? the colder the surrounding temperature the faster the spout cools/plugs up

I found that the spouts on my lee pots cooled off faster than on my RCBS. not sure about Lyman

I love that NOE 311-247 mold

"I'm going to powder coat. So does these imperfections even matter?" for close-range handgun boolits --- not so much, for rifle longer-range higher velocity YES!!

As Larry mentioned, I also do all my casting between 680° and 720° ( except pure where I go 750°)

make sure the alloy is clean fluxed several times with both sawdust and wax before putting it in you pot

You could try pressure casting (hold the sprue hole up to the spout, pour lead for a few seconds then lower the mold to get a puddle on top of the sprue). this way guarantees the best fill out I only do this with new to me molds and just a few times.

make sure the flow of lead is going directly into the center of the hole.

back to the alloy, you can toss .5 oz of pewter/tin in the pot to help get a better fill

Go back to the beginning:
clean pot and spout
clean alloy
clean mold cavities
heat cycle the mold 3 times (read NOE instructions)
heat clean alloy to 720° use thermometer or PID
heat mold to 400° use IR thermometer to check
see where the mold lines up centered directly under the spout (adjust guides if your pot has them)
Flux the alloy in your pot 1 time with sawdust (burn it off and stir it in) and once with wax (stir it in)

**I leave this on top of the alloy in the pot to act as a vapor barrier **
https://i.imgur.com/iVILHTi.jpg

bring the preheated mold to the pot, clear the nozzle and start your first pour. :)

Let us know how it turns out with answers to any questions. You will get this!!!!!

I threw this together to clean the spout on my pot
https://i.imgur.com/dwEOWn5.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/x1e6BFy.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/TeKDX5B.jpg

often you can clear/open up the flow through the spout bu just heating the spout with a lighter or small tourch

[megasupermagnum]

One extra tidbit I should have mentioned. I like to pour as close as possible to the sprue plate. Ideal is about a 3/8" gap. Any closer, and the puddle hits the spout. Farther, and it seems to produce worse results.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

JoeJames,
Be sure to read and re-read everything that Conditor22 posted for you.
There are many gems in that Hints, Tips, Tricks list he posted.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

SNIP...

https://i.imgur.com/x1e6BFy.jpg


That might very well be the ugliest DIY tool I ever saw :holysheep :redneck: [smilie=l:

...but I have no doubt it is effective
and likely safer than the extra long allen wrench I use.
:cbpour:

[JoeJames]

JoeJames,
Be sure to read and re-read everything that Conditor22 posted for you.
There are many gems in that Hints, Tips, Tricks list he posted.I cut and pasted his comments and printed them out for my notebook. Made a heck of a difference. One thing I don't think he mentioned probably because it should have been evident was my thought on not being miserly with alloy in the pot. I was doing that and in combination with everything else the results were not very good. Let me clear though, I sure ain't posing as an expert. Just that many of my mistakes are still fresh in my memory. I learned ages ago that whenever I got cocky, I'd usually get my head handed back to me.

[GregLaROCHE]

My vote is the flow rate is set too slow or possible partial blockage.
PCing the boolits should prevent lead buildup in the silencer, certainly better than naked lead. I’ve shot Lee’s 320 grain boolits PCed through an M1A with a silencer without any problems. Only a hundred or so trying to get it sub sonic and cycling. Couldn’t do it with different powder loads and didn’t want to modify the gun, so abandoned the project. If you will be shooting thousands of hot rounds, your results may be different.

[Conditor22]

That might very well be the ugliest DIY tool I ever saw :holysheep :redneck: [smilie=l:

...but I have no doubt it is effective
and likely safer than the extra long allen wrench I use.
:cbpour:

It was made in hurry with what I had at hand. It worked well so I felt no need to make it pretty (IF you saw me you'd understand :) )

when you PC your boolits make sure you follow manufacturers bake instructions
they all read (somewhere on the site) bake for XX minutes in an oven preheated to XXX° after one of 2 conditions is met
(1) the PC flows out on the boolit (2) the boolit reaches XXX°

Test your oven with a thermometer to confirm it is actually reaching XXX°, if not adjust the setting until you do.
I recommend a convection type oven because you get even heat distribution but toaster ovens will work, just don't do too many at one time.

[Larry Gibson]

The pour out of my Lyman pot looks good. But ill take a look at it this weekend to see if the spout needs cleaned.

This is also the first time I've cast rifle bullets. I've always cast pistol in the past.

If you have a Lyman you can adjust the flow rate by screwing the spout lift stop up or down. I've been using a mag20 for some years but it was the same on my old Lyman 10 lb bottom pour. I leave the lock nut loose as i adjust the flow as the alloy goes down in the pot.

[walker77]

So it was a pour issue. I didn't realize how stopped up it was.

But now I have a new problem. The spout is dripping....... a lot!

I just drained the pot. Ill take another look at it this weekend to see what the problem is now.

Any ideas in the mean time?

[megasupermagnum]

So it was a pour issue. I didn't realize how stopped up it was.

But now I have a new problem. The spout is dripping....... a lot!

I just drained the pot. Ill take another look at it this weekend to see what the problem is now.

Any ideas in the mean time?

I'm not familiar with Lyman pots, but a quick fix on a Lee, you adjust the flow by threading in or out the rod. First would be to make sure it is threaded such that it can seat. If it is, it likely got some crud in the seat. Often you can take a screwdriver, and while pushing down, turn side to side to break up and clear the junk.

[walker77]

I'm not even sure which Lyman pot I have. All the markings are gone. Id say its 15 - 20 years old (bought it used).

The Lyman has a screw at the top too but it didn't seem to do much except increase or decrease the flow.

[Bashby]

I was watching some quick tip videos the other day, I think they were on NOEs site. One of them showed rubbing a block of wax on the spout while it’s hot to clean it. I guess the wax is supposed to wick it’s way inside to clean it. Might be worth a shot.

[abunaitoo]

I like to clean it with hot water, an old tooth busch, and plain soap.
Then dry it off with a propane torch.
Then smoke with a butane lighter.
Never failed me yet.