Pure Lead & PC

[mehavey]

Just for grins....

Last evening I took my `86 Miroku out to see just how fast I could push pure lead (PC'd) through it:

https://i.postimg.cc/gc3x1b4K/1886-Gould-Fast.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/L5f0VQBD/Lyman-457122-Gould-Pure-Lead.jpg

post-1: Mirror bore on dry patch
post-2: Being "Extra Light," also fast/heavy enough to be headache material off a bench.

[cwlongshot]

YUP

People Will tell ya your untruthful. They wont believe. I know whats true as I have done it too!

PC can do much for our "cast bullet world". Im glad I have found it!

CW

[redhawk0]

I have the same boolit and I PC mine with Traffic Red....but I've never cast them with pure Pb. That's some mighty fine shootin. Looks like you found a winning combo for a load. A bit too fast for whitetails...(IMHO)...but it would do the trick for sure.

redhawk

[cwlongshot]

Yup its a fav I have the mold as well!

I havent used pure either but I have sent a pile of 20:1 down range!!

CW

[Conditor22]

I believe that the 45/70 was designed for pure.

Nice job, a little scope tweaking and you've got it made.

[kreuzlover]

Why doe's your info look like a 1950's movie ransom note? :mrgreen:

[mnewcomb59]

I am currently shooting up some pure lead powder coated 357s with awful results. The load is 7.7 gr Power Pistol with the Lee 158-rf. The load should be about 25k psi and it leads like crazy. A few recovered bullets from my revolvers show skidding based on the rifling engravements being wider than the rifling and wider on the first driving band. They are doing something funny in my slow twist rossi 92 also because I am getting leading in the middle of the barrel and they shoot a 6' not " group at 50 yards. I think they are so soft that they are obturating sideways and stripping the powder coat making much more friction than a harder bullet that doesn't slump as bad and scoots out the barrel. My softer bullets that shoot well show powder coat ground off of the base driving band and a hollow base forming.

I had high hopes for the load because I use lead barely harder than pure all the time with great luck. I resized the cases with the factory crimp die so the bullet doesn't get sized when seating.I had about 150 loaded up before I found out they shoot like a warm dog turd. I got about 50 left to pull or shoot and it sucks. I might dig a hole and bury them to be rid of them.

[cwlongshot]

Bullet diameter is largest contributor to leading. ESP IN REVOLVERS where you have barrel dia AND CYL diameter!!!

I shoot 20:1 @ 1400+ in my revolvers with no issues.

CW

[fcvan]

I was on a grins and giggles kick and bought plain base gas checks for 35 and 45 caliber. I have this pair of molds from Lee that are tapered base for percussion revolvers. One being a single cavity HP mold, the just RN, both dropping a 200 grains. I shot a bunch of lubed before I just went full on powder coating everything.

Having a 20" H&R 1871 Classic Carbine in 45 Colt I decided to warm things up a bit with IMR 4227 and quit at 1950 fps. I shot some checked, shot some just PCd and didn't notice a change in accuracy or perceived leading with dead soft lead. Let me tell you, the color case hardened crescent steel but plate is fantastic a transferring maximum perceived recoil with minimal loss to the shoulder. That little carbine is a bruiser! But, it really liked .454 LRB over a light charge of Bullseye for 950 fps. Soft round lead balls really mush on impact!

[facetious]

I am currently shooting up some pure lead powder coated 357s with awful results. The load is 7.7 gr Power Pistol with the Lee 158-rf. The load should be about 25k psi and it leads like crazy. A few recovered bullets from my revolvers show skidding based on the rifling engravements being wider than the rifling and wider on the first driving band. They are doing something funny in my slow twist rossi 92 also because I am getting leading in the middle of the barrel and they shoot a 6' not " group at 50 yards. I think they are so soft that they are obturating sideways and stripping the powder coat making much more friction than a harder bullet that doesn't slump as bad and scoots out the barrel. My softer bullets that shoot well show powder coat ground off of the base driving band and a hollow base forming.

I had high hopes for the load because I use lead barely harder than pure all the time with great luck. I resized the cases with the factory crimp die so the bullet doesn't get sized when seating.I had about 150 loaded up before I found out they shoot like a warm dog turd. I got about 50 left to pull or shoot and it sucks. I might dig a hole and bury them to be rid of them.

You say "I am getting leading in the middle of the barrel'' . Is there any roll marking on the barrel in that spot? If so firelaping might be something to look into.

[mdi]

I kinda think of PCing as "adding a soft jacket" to my cast bullets. Copper condom bullets normally have very soft, pure lead cores, so why wouldn't a "soft jacketed" bullet work with PC? Haven't tried pure, yet, but I have some pretty soft "Mystery Metal" alloy (8-9 BHN?) that I have cast and PCed with good success...

[PBaholic]

I kinda think of PCing as "adding a soft jacket" to my cast bullets. Copper condom bullets normally have very soft, pure lead cores, so why wouldn't a "soft jacketed" bullet work with PC? Haven't tried pure, yet, but I have some pretty soft "Mystery Metal" alloy (8-9 BHN?) that I have cast and PCed with good success...

I also PC, and try to get BHN 10 when I smelt, but often get down to 8 and 9. I'm shooting .38, .357, .45ACP and .45LC. All shoot fine.

I've tried pure lead in 230gr .452, but had trouble getting it out of the molds.

Since pure lead has a higher melting point than alloyed metal, I probably didn't have it hot enough.

[cwlongshot]

Your right "pure" lead for us casters is really MOSTLY pure as ya simply NEED some tim so the lead flows and fills proper like.

CW

[mattw]

I am going to have to try this... I am thinking 32 H&R and 38/357. I am not sure I would want to try it in a 41 Mag yet. I have wondered about the "soft jacket" concept and I does look like there may be some validity to it. Would make for a great hollow point or WFN for hunting.

[Rightbrained]

I’ve been wondering about this as I’ve just ordered my first mold ( H&G 503 clone).
I was about to ask a question about this.
Thanks for the info .

[wgaynor]

I have a 5 gallon bucket of stick on wheel weights. I think i may do this with Hi-Tek coating for my 9mm. Will be fun to check out the expansion in water jugs.

[THG]

Cast 125 grain 9mm using pure stick on WW.
PC Smoke Signal Blue
Loaded over American Select
Fired a 50 round test.
Excellent results at 5, 10 & 15 yards.
Bore shinny clean. Pushed a patch through to confirm.

[cowboy4evr]

For several yrs I have bought alloy from the guy @ Action Bullets in Quinter Kansas . His alloy was pure lead w/1% tin . I water cooled them . I have shot them from mild to wild with good accuracy . People have said I didn't gain much water cooling . When I asked him he said I was gaining a lot more than you might think for hardness . But , over a month ago I sent in an order and haven't received it . I have called about a dozen times and just got the answering machine. I have left messages --- no response . So , now it's back to looking for a supplier of alloy . Regards Paul

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I use pure lead hollow points in my revolvers. Never had any leading with PC.

In rifles I shoot up to 1800fps with BHN 8 lead with no leading. It's so soft my seater dies leave marks on the boolits.

[SoonerEd]

MEHAVEY,

I've got that mold and I can get it to around 1,700 PC'd and the accuracy holding together with RL +2%.

[firefly1957]

I cast bullets for 30-30 & 45-70 from pure lead then coat the bullets both guns are Marlins. The bullet averages 184 grains (Lee 170 mold) in 30-30 shots great at 2040 f/s I am shooting a 354 grain (Lee340 mold) in 45-70 at average of 2168 f/s . Both loads shoot well under two inches at 100 yards.

Accuracy was not great but I have an old set of swage dies for .224" bullets I made a few 55 grain coated lead bullets and loaded them to 3000 f/s my dies left a terrible burr on the bullet base but there was no leading in the bore and the loads functioned my Mini -14 well. I made some more this time putting the coated lead .185" wire in a spent large primer cup which filled out to a gas check in swaging these bullets shot a lot better without that burr. Again no leading I did not do more with it as the dies are made to use empty .22 rim fire brass as a jacket and I have lots of them .

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Why doe's your info look like a 1950's movie ransom note? :mrgreen:

I was wondering the same thing. I can't understand most of it. Except it looks like he's shooting pure lead over 1800 fps. Paper patch can do that and more.

[RogerDat]

I find PC has allowed me to use softer lead to good effect. Generally COWW +2% Sn cut 50/50 with plain lead is as far toward plain soft lead as I have tried. This makes me think maybe I should be thinking plain lead plus a couple percent of tin would be a good alloy.

I can tumble lube the WW + 2% Sn cut 50/50 with plain and do tumble lube sometimes instead of PC so a softer lead alloy would need to be planned to be PC as soon as it is ready. I was encouraged by the post listing pistol calibers shot using soft and PC as that would cover much of my needs.

For full power rifle I still favor Lyman #2 alloy with PC I have pounded a bunch of .223 through a Ruger Mini-14 with that recipe and no leading or clogging of the gas port or action.

Plain lead is by far the most common to find at scrap yards so anything that expands that resources use is a good thing. Not finding printers lead or solder or COWW's nearly as often as plain lead sheeting or plumbing scrap.

[mehavey]

What PC does (that ALOX can't) is protect the base as a quasi gas-check.
Discovered this "undocumented feature" early-on....
:-D

(Gas guns not quite so much because of trailing edge stress passing the gas port.)

[murf205]

Your right "pure" lead for us casters is really MOSTLY pure as ya simply NEED some tim so the lead flows and fills proper like.

CW

+1 for the tin, CW. The mix I call pure is range scrap from a muzzle loader only range and although I don't know the exact BHN, it's pretty soft. About 1 1/2% -2% tin gives me the fill out for my 290gr NOE that I shoot in a 15" Encore 460 S&W. 45 grs of 1680 makes 2094fps and when pc'd Ford Blue, there is 'nary a trace of lead anywhere in the bore. I usually clean my stuff after every session but after 15 or 20 of these in a handgun an oily patch is all it needs and that's all of these I need too!

[Tripplebeards]

I’ve ran 16/1 pewter and pure lead flooring alloy that has a BH of 7.5 to 2100 fps in my Marlin 336. The boolots were PC and a hornady GC. No leading and OK accuracy with averaging a 2” 100 yard groups.

[Digital Dan]

Long time ago I had a Ruger 77/44 that shot poorly with J-bullets, so I paper patched 300 gr pure lead and went full throttle. Sub MOA at 100 yds and nothing shot with it took a step. It also shot well in a Ruger .44 Mag revolver.

[catkiller45]

My alloy for 243 is 8/9 bhn. Much harder and they won't chamber. These are bore rider bullets. I have heard if you drop them in cold water right out of the over,they will get a little harder. Any truth to that? Guess I'll do a few and see if they do..

[Charlie Horse]

I am currently shooting up some pure lead powder coated 357s with awful results. The load is 7.7 gr Power Pistol with the Lee 158-rf. The load should be about 25k psi and it leads like crazy. A few recovered bullets from my revolvers show skidding based on the rifling engravements being wider than the rifling and wider on the first driving band. They are doing something funny in my slow twist rossi 92 also because I am getting leading in the middle of the barrel and they shoot a 6' not " group at 50 yards. I think they are so soft that they are obturating sideways and stripping the powder coat making much more friction than a harder bullet that doesn't slump as bad and scoots out the barrel. My softer bullets that shoot well show powder coat ground off of the base driving band and a hollow base forming.

I had high hopes for the load because I use lead barely harder than pure all the time with great luck. I resized the cases with the factory crimp die so the bullet doesn't get sized when seating.I had about 150 loaded up before I found out they shoot like a warm dog turd. I got about 50 left to pull or shoot and it sucks. I might dig a hole and bury them to be rid of them.

Thank you for this post. My Rossi 357 rifle is very, very picky. I keep a Taurus 605, 357 magnum revolver to shoot up the loads that don't work out in the Rossi. It makes for good short range double action practice.

But here is one of the 50 yard loads I've settled on for the rifle. The other uses the Lee 124 grain TLTC, either lubed or powder coated.

310207

[Charlie Horse]

I have learned to depend more on accuracy and shot placement than boolit performance.

[Cast10]

Great thread! Even though old…..

I have been shooting 10mm and 9mm, including a 16” 10mm carbine up to 1600fps w/o leading using PC.

My alloy, using the calculator was arrived at:
1% SN, 2.57% SB, 96.43% PB / BHN 11.3

I now find myself with a new 94 in 38-55. I’m pleased to see this thread as my load ladders will be in the 1400 - 1800 range. I plan on using the same alloy mix above.

I’ve been casting and PCing for two years or so. Had it not been for PC, I would have never been a caster.

Thanks to all!

[charlie b]

My alloy for 243 is 8/9 bhn. Much harder and they won't chamber. These are bore rider bullets. I have heard if you drop them in cold water right out of the over,they will get a little harder. Any truth to that? Guess I'll do a few and see if they do..

They will be a little harder IF your alloy has some antimony in it. It takes a bit longer in the oven to fully harden, about an hour if I remember right, depending on temp.

You many need to nose size your bullets once they are harder. I do that with all of my bore riders.

[Targa]

Pushing 1900 fps and no ill effects? Very nice, thanks for sharing your results Firefly!!

[MT Gianni]

I am currently shooting up some pure lead powder coated 357s with awful results. The load is 7.7 gr Power Pistol with the Lee 158-rf. The load should be about 25k psi and it leads like crazy. A few recovered bullets from my revolvers show skidding based on the rifling engravements being wider than the rifling and wider on the first driving band. They are doing something funny in my slow twist rossi 92 also because I am getting leading in the middle of the barrel and they shoot a 6' not " group at 50 yards. I think they are so soft that they are obturating sideways and stripping the powder coat making much more friction than a harder bullet that doesn't slump as bad and scoots out the barrel. My softer bullets that shoot well show powder coat ground off of the base driving band and a hollow base forming.

I had high hopes for the load because I use lead barely harder than pure all the time with great luck. I resized the cases with the factory crimp die so the bullet doesn't get sized when seating.I had about 150 loaded up before I found out they shoot like a warm dog turd. I got about 50 left to pull or shoot and it sucks. I might dig a hole and bury them to be rid of them.

All pc's are not equal. What brand and color are you using. Even Smokes has some that work better for me than others.

[Toymaker]

Kicked like the Southern end of a North bound mule, eh? Told ya to stay away from them mules, you ain't from Missouri.