first casting attempt NEED HELP

[HVACscott]

I will start with everything i did...melted WW "fluxed" with wood shavings and skimmed once, candle once (caught fire and stirred till fire went out) skimmed, borax once and skimmed, poured into muffin pans...loaded LEE 20/4 and turned to 9 all melted and got to 900F, added another muffin and temp fell to 720F. forgot to preheat mold (MP, aluminum, 6 cavity, 115 gr, 9mm) so i put on top of furnace and waited 15 min (drop of water sizzled and turned to steam)...started first pouring, sprue cut a little hard left bullets in mold to heat up mold, bullets came out wrinkled (no surprise), poured second cut sprue as soon as color changed still harder than i thought it would be but it is a 6 cavity, third pour all 6 filled good but sprue was very tough to open all 6 looked good...4 th pour and where i need advise... sprue would not open tried so hard i bent sprue handle and had to get hammer and flat punch to get open, 2 bullets heavy wrinkle and 4 looked great.

big question is whats up with the sprue.

[harm]

How long were you waiting between pouring and cutting the sprue? They'll cut easier when they are still hot (you don't want still molten, but a few seconds after the sprue puddle frosts over).

I don't have any MP 6-cavity molds myself, but have only heard good things..

[HVACscott]

THANKS for the advise

i was thinking that may be my issue, being new at this i need to get my tools especially the sprue "hammer" in more convenient and same place , i was searching for it a few times costing me seconds i guess i don't have

[44Blam]

This seems odd. I cast generally with 2 and 4 cavity molds but I always open them up with my gloved hand. Occasionally, the 4 cavity ones (when the sprue plate is still cool) require a little coaxing with a 1x2" that I have on hand. But generally, I open the sprue with my hands...

To bend a sprue handle is a little concerning.

[reddog81]

It’s hard to cut through cold lead... I only fill one or two cavities at a time until the mold has warmed up some.


Fill one cavity and then cut, fill next cavity and cut, fill third cavity and cut fill fourth cavity and then cut and dump out sprues and bullets. Next time I’ll do 2 cavities at a time. I don’t even look at the bullets for the first couple pours. Go as quick as possible while still don’t safe. The longer you wait between pours the more the mold cools down. Inspecting bullets wastes time.

[Conditor22]

hard sprue cutting can bcaused by several things

1 letting the lead cool too much
2 the holes in the sprue plate aren't sharp enough
3 start filling from the sprue hinge out
4 filling the cavities too slowly

wrinkled boolits always start by scrubbing the mold again with hot water, dawn dish soap and either a denture brush or toothbrush

720° is a good temp to cast at. adding a little tin/pewter will help with fillout often smoking the cavities lightly with a butane lighter.

occasionally I have had to polish the cavities to get them to fill/drop nicely.

what alloy were you using?
how cold was the room/area you were casting in?

[DHDeal]

Waiting too long to cut the sprue. I don't use any 6 cavity molds, but a 4 cavity can need a little extra smack with a leather hammer for me when it's not to temp. Don't forget to preheat the mold. When you fill, pour some extra over the sprue plate to get it up to temp too. A too hot/cool mold can cause issues, but a too cool sprue plate will cause issues.

[Czech_too]

I always pre-heat the mould, even going so far as to flip it over on the hot plate so that the sprue plate is pre-heated. When filling any mould, let it overfill so that the melt helps to keep the sprue plate up to temp.
With a 6 cavity I expect the first pour(s) to be rejects and also cut the sprue right after filling the last cavity. If using a bottom pour pot, get a good flow out of the spout, not a trickle, that'll cause wrinkles. So will to cold of a mould though.

[Land Owner]

You didn't say how long you have been casting. From the heavy handed angst that you posted, I assume - not very long. Starting "right off the bat", I think, with a 6-cav aluminum mold is aggressive, not foolhardy, but will take some finesse, even a few bad experiences before it irons itself out. You are learning On The Job and mistakes happen. Unintended consequences they're called. They happen to all of us. Don't feel too bad about that.

The Spru Plate MUST BE HOT, screwed "relatively tight" (not loose) to the mold (needing a tiny bit of lube to make it smooth and to preclude a "large" spru puddle forming between the bottom of the plate and the top of the mold, and sharp too!

If you fail to get the mold, its HANDLES, and spru plate nearly as hot as the melted alloy (there is a LOT of mass there), and a 6-cav mold needs a lot of pre-heat, you are going to get negative results. The srpu should take 5 to 10 seconds to cool "sufficiently", glaze over, frost even, prior to cutting. It should cut easily. If the mold and spru plate are sufficiently hot, the wrinkles will also disappear.

From experience with a similar Ranch Dog, TL358-100-RF, 6-cavity, aluminum, 100 grain, 380ACP mold, start at one end on the first pour. Start at the other end on the second pour. Pour one or two cavities at first. Let the entire mass of mold/handles/spru plate metals heat up before trying three, four, or up to six cavities at one time. If it isn't hot, it is going to bind. Better to bind (a little) on two cavities rather than six.

Don't try to ride that horse until it is HOT and ready. Your mold will tell you when it is ready. Do not force it to behave.

[Wayne Smith]

And wait until the sprue has hardened - changed from glossy to less glossy, count a slow count to three, cut sprue and dump bullets. Immediately refill and repeat. Do not inspect boolits until you are done casting and they have cooled - don't ask how many times I've burned my fingers - but I'm ADHD to boot. When you have a pile of boolits they keep one another hot. Spread them out to cool while you are waiting for the sprue to change appearance.

If you get a small divot in the base of the boolit you need to wait another second before cutting the sprue.

[robg]

what wayne smith said.

[larryw]

Sound advice from all. What Landowner said is gospel. Don't beat yourself up to bad, this a journey, A journey with a ton of learning
& constant, incessant variables. We ALL have had these problems, to some extent or other when we started. Remember, as you have already found out, it doesn't take a Silver back gorilla to cut a sprue, unless your doing something wrong !! Then that beautiful silver
stuff gets pretty dog gone tough...Hang in there, it will all be as clear as mud soon..
Take Care & be safe...

[lar45]

I use a hot plate to pre heat my molds.
If I keep getting wrinkles even when everything seems like it should be good, then I'll lightly smoke the cavities with a butane BBQ lighter. That usually solves my wrinkle problems.
My sprue plate whacking stick is just that a hard wood stick about 12" long and a little over 1" thick, just big enough to be comfortable in your hand.
A picture of the mold might help to see if you need a new sprue plate or if the one you have will still work.
I ruined my first mold in one casting session.
Luckily it was just a Lee 30-170, the bullets kept sticking and wouldn't fall out so I started tapping the side of the mold to smack them out. If the bullets get stuck, tap the handles to jiggle them loose.
Also try running your WW around 750.
I keep an Ingot mold under the spout and before I pour the first cavity, I open the spout for about 1/2 second to get rid of the cold lead drop that is on the bottom of the spout.
Pour a big puddle on top of the sprue plate. Remember that when the lead cools, it will shrink, and you need a molten puddle on top so it will pull the liquid lead in to keep your bases crisp and flat without rounded edges.

[RKJ]

I try to use 2 molds when casting as it helps with my cadence. I start filling the mold, say a LEE 6 cavity 9mm, put it down and grab a 4 cav 357 fill it and then grab the 9mm and dump it then fill again. I’ll do this fill and dump 3-4 times (until the bullets look good to me) then start keeping the bullets. Doing it this way, the bullet is cooled enough but the mold and spruce are still hot enough to cut easy. One thing I’ve found too is an ugly bullet (wrinkled a bit) will still shoot good at the distance I’ll shoot a 9 or 357. Good Luck.

[Wayne Smith]

This is the first time he's cast, let him master one mold at a time!

[bakerjw]

I have 3 Lee 6 cavity molds. 4 and 00 buck as well as .452 230 grain TC.
I've never had trouble cutting off the sprue. I have noticed that it is easier with the .452 mold as there is more lead going into it to keep it very hot.
when I pour, I often run a stream of lead over all of the holes to keep the sprue as one piece. This also helps keep the cutter hot.

ETA... FWIW... I am VERY new at this. But it is very fun when things are clicking properly.

[bangerjim]

Three words of advise:

1. Practice

2. Practice

3. Practice

This is a very easy process, but only time and practice will get you "in the zone" of feeling what is right and what is not.

I ONLY use 4, 5, and 6 cavity molds. I heat the molds to FULL CASTING TEMP (not just warm!) on an electric hotplate, not on the edge of the casting pot. My boolits drop 100% on the 1st drop by preheating. Get yourself a good hotplate.

And your rhythm of filling and dropping just comes with practice. Nice thing is - - - all your mistakes easily re-melt!

Just keep at it and you will figure it out. Remember, we are not putting a man on Mars, we are just simply melting lead.

banger

[ukrifleman]

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_8_IdleMusings.htm

Read this article from Glen Fryxell, a fount of knowledge for a new caster.
ukrifleman

[reddog81]

This is the first time he's cast, let him master one mold at a time!

Heck, I’ve been casting for 5+ years and still get aggravated anytime I try and run 2 molds at the same time.

[gwpercle]

Don't get discouraged , read all the suggestions , refine your technique and keep casting .

We all cast a lot of bad boolits before we learned how to cast good boolits.
The only way to learn how to cast boolits is to cast boolits .

Pour the last sprue puddle , slow count to three and open it up . Watch the block tops for smears , if you see smears , slow count to five and open ... clean off the smears, they will just ruin your mould if left in place .

Read all the chapters 1 - 8 , of "From Ingot to Target" by Glen Fryxell , the link in post #18 ! Great Read .
I printed a lot of it and made a booklet for myself .
Gary

[rockrat]

I heat my moulds on a hot plate for at least 15 min and then put the corner of the mould in the hot lead for 1 min, no more and wait for a count of 10 to let the heat flow across the mould stabilize. I cast at 715 degrees. I watch the sprue and when I see what appears to be the sprue solidifying, I open the mould. With practice, you can tell if you waited too long(hard opening) or opened it too soon(lead smears on the mould).

When I used a Lee, putting it on top just wouldn't heat it enough. Same with my Pro-melt. My old Saeco worked OK. Thats why I went with a hot plate, as I usually use the pro-melt now.

[HVACscott]

thanks all....to answer some questions
i have poured 6 molds total on my own ( poured 10-20 at member jdfoxinc place as a show and do session) … 2 in a 2 cavity a friend gave me, and 4 in my 6 cavity
the room (garage) was about 60 degrees
alloy is wheel weights
lee 20/4 bottom pour furnace
pot at 720
mold is a MP 115gr, RN, 9mm, aluminum 6 cavity, brand new ( i did heat cycle it 6 times as instructed)

im sure at this point i did not preheat the mold enough (i put a drop of water on the sprue and when it boiled off i started casting)

I caused my own issue i thought that the sprue "cut" (like scissors doing all the work, regardless of lead temp) so on my last one i dropped my tapping hammer and by the time i got it and tried to cut, it have been 10-15 seconds and when it did not open i panicked and gorilla up and tried to force it open, and when the handle was at 90 degrees to mold and barely half way thru sprue, figured the handle was not going to work, set it down and took a breather. came back and used a hammer and flat punch to finish the sprue and then opened the mold...best bullets of the night, turned everything off sat in my chair had a drink and watched lead cool down.

SORRY for leaving out the embarrassing details!

tomorrow when i try again..... what temp should the mold be when i start??

[Wayne Smith]

I put my mold on the hotplate turned up high when I light my gas burner. When the lead is melted and fluxed I start casting - if the first couple are wrinkled I don't mind- I'm getting the mold up to temperature. I'll cast 75 or 100+ and then take a rest, sort and toss the wrinkled ones back. By that time I'll have added more alloy to the melt and have to wait to get that back up to temp and have the mold back on the hot plate. If I'm done I'll turn off everything and take them upstairs to lube size, or get up and cast some more if I need them and have the energy.

[Conditor22]

400° works for me, good boolits right from the start, too hot and it takes forever for the sprue to cool. 720 ° is my go to temperature, lower for harder alloys and hotter for pure.

[HVACscott]

400° works for me, good boolits right from the start, too hot and it takes forever for the sprue to cool. 720 ° is my go to temperature, lower for harder alloys and hotter for pure.

did this exact process tonight and made many good sets...did start getting smearing from the sprue plate and the bullets bottoms looked torn not smooth cut im sure i let the mold get too hot i was causing flat spots on the bullets when they dropped...going too fast this time! temped the mold and it was 550ish.

how do i get the smear of lead off my sprue plate??

[Conditor22]

you got excited and went too fast. :)

lead removal, use a lead ingot, stick, torch, razor scraper. you need to watch the sprue and don't cut the sprue until it changes color

what I do is right after I cut the sprue on my first cast I campen a q-tip with synthetic 2 stroke additive and wipe the top of the mold , top and bottom of the spruplate. I dump the boolits then wipe the alignment pins MAKE SURE not to get any in the cavities

I use a needle tip dropper bottle to put a tiny drop of oil on the sprue plate thing, work the sprue plate and wipe any excess oil that bleeds through.

[405grain]

If you wait too long and the sprue hardens up too much the sprue plate will be hard to open. If you don't wait long enough, and the sprue hasn't fully set, the base of the boolit will smear and you'll get lead stuck all over the bottom of the sprue plate. Once you get lead on the bottom of the sprue plate it just keeps building up and making things worse. You need to remove the lead build up, but don't want to damage the sprue plate. When I was a lot younger and just starting out I had to learn this stuff by trial and error. Your lucky because we have the internet now, so you can learn from people that have already made these mistakes. To clean the sprue plate I'd wipe away as much lead as I could while the mold was hot. Then after the mold had cooled to room temperature I'd remove the sprue plate and gently scrape away as much lead as I could with the end edge of a 6" steel ruler. You don't want to scratch up the sprue plate so don't over do it. Then I buff away the remaining lead film with some scotchbrite.
Starting out with a six cavity mold can be a frustrating learning experience. I'd recommend that you'd get a faster learning curve starting with a two cavity mold. Also, I've found that steel molds hold the heat longer than aluminum and give you more time to let the sprue solidify, and are generally more forgiving. Also, one of the tricks to casting is to develop a rhythm. Once you get everything to work just right, do what your doing pretty much the same way, with the same timing, over and over.
One last thing. While I'm casting and the mold is hot, every so often I'll touch a piece of bee's wax to the sprue pivot screw for just a second to lube the sprue plate.

[kevin c]

Great advice from all above. I especially second 405's comment about rhythm. Keeping the right cadence helps me get the mold to the right casting temp and keep it there for as long as possible. That results in long runs of pours with good bullets. That cadence can vary, though, with different molds, alloy temps and even the weather. And what you do in that cadence can be adjusted to keep the right mold temp, such as air or wet sponge cooling, or pouring a bigger sprue for more heating.

In other words, as mentioned above, the experience gained in practice will show you how to adjust each session to get good results.

Welcome to the craft!

[fredj338]

Once you go over 4cav, the spru late becomes an issue. So in my 6cav, I pour the first two cavs & open, then the rear two & open. Do this until the mold gets up to temp. You can also heat on a hot plate to about 400deg & you should be able to get pretty good results by pour #2. Casting is very much a rhythm thing to get good results.

[Huskerguy]

It surprises you what "warmed up" really means. I have a 6 cavity and 5 cavity aluminum moulds and they need to be hot,.not warm. There is excellent advice here, I can't add more as I have been through the same thing. Rules of thumb, get the mould hot, not just warm, I too put it on a hot plate with the sprue plate down. Get lead just a little hotter. When I fire up my pot for a session I set it higher than I do when casting which gets the nozzle free and warms up the mould if it is marginal. Then go like crazy pouring and if you have to best in the sprue, it is too cold.

My guess is you will make beautiful bullets next session, just pour first, admire later.

[GregLaROCHE]

All the important points have been mentioned above. I would add to think about getting an inexpensive two boolit mould from Lee. When almost all your boolits are turning out close to perfect, then move on to the big mould.

[HVACscott]

cleaned off my 6 cavity and will try again tonight with a deep breath after the poor and before the sprue...

Thanks all for the advise it really helps

[Conditor22]

setting the mold on a chunk of steel or aluminum help's cool it down faster
https://i.imgur.com/Q43LVtj.jpg

[HVACscott]

thanks for all the advise also thanks to jim for inspecting my test batcha assured me i was doing OK

400+ bullets, in a 6 cavity mold, third time casting, only 20 rejects, life is great...EXECPT at this rate i will need primers sooner than expected!

thanks all for the advise
Scott