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stargzer
12-07-2008, 01:11 PM
I want to start reloading for .380 ACP. I've been reading a old(copyright 1978)book "Handloading for Handguns" by Maj. George C. Nonte, Jr. He has a Die Interchangeablity Table on page 265. It list the .38 Special die as compatible for reloading the .380 ACP. Anyone try this or should I spend the money for new dies in .380 ACP? I already have die set for .38/357 Mag. What say you?

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

Bullshop
12-07-2008, 02:03 PM
I use 9mm.
BIC/BS

stargzer
12-07-2008, 02:16 PM
I use 9mm.
BIC/BS

You are using 9mm dies for your 380 ACP? Instead of the 38 special? In the same Table of Interchangability it also list the .38 ACP. Are the .380 ACP and .38 ACP not the same?:confused:

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

Bullshop
12-07-2008, 02:39 PM
Ok now we are getting into a can of worms. This will eventually lead to the 38 super.
Lets try to break it down.
The 380acp is nothing more than a 9mm (para) short. Brass for the 380 can be made from 9mm. The 38 acp and 38 super are nothing more than a 9mm long.
The 38 acp and 38 super are the same cartridge but not the same loading. The 38 acp was loaded to much lower pressure and chambered insome weaker design guns that will not handle the super loading, for long!
All 380, 9mm, 38 acp, and 38 super can be loaded with 9mm para dies.
Can be loaded yes but all can not be crimped. The short guy in the bunch the 380 is too short to reach the crimp sholder in a 9mm die.
No if using a 38 special die it may not offer enough bullet pull for .356" diameter bullets but if you load .357" to .358" boolits as I do should be OK.
Your 38 special will have the same issue though with crimp for the shorter 380 and 9mm cases.
Hope I got that all right. If not somebody let me know and I will try again.
BIC/BS

Echo
12-07-2008, 03:17 PM
+1 for Bullshop.

stargzer
12-08-2008, 12:30 AM
Thanks Bullshop for that information. I have some Lee Dies for 9mm So, I guess I will need to get a 380 ACP crimping die.

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

Spud
12-10-2008, 06:41 AM
Thanks Bullshop for that information. I have some Lee Dies for 9mm So, I guess I will need to get a 380 ACP crimping die.

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

You can (possibly)seat bullets in 380's with 9mm dies but that's about it. Can't use the sizer, no way. 9mm's are a tapered case with a larger base than 380ACP's. 380's are straight-walled. And if you want to make 380's out of 9mmP's you better have a 20-ton press (at least)! I DO use a 9mmP taper crimp die for 380ACP's with success, however.

Will
12-10-2008, 08:19 AM
I had trouble with the 380 not getting enough crimp to remove the bell which caused feeding problems. I found that I can adjust my FL sizing die so that the loaded round enters just enough to produce a perfect taper crimp.

stargzer
12-10-2008, 01:06 PM
You can (possibly)seat bullets in 380's with 9mm dies but that's about it. Can't use the sizer, no way. 9mm's are a tapered case with a larger base than 380ACP's. 380's are straight-walled. And if you want to make 380's out of 9mmP's you better have a 20-ton press (at least)! I DO use a 9mmP taper crimp die for 380ACP's with success, however.

Thanks Spud, You are absolutely correct!!! Upon checking the specs for the 380 ACP and the 9mm Para. There is a big enough difference to possibly cause concern. Yes, 380 brass is Straight wall and 9mm is taper.

380 ACP case mouth width is 0.373 in. and base is 0.374

9mm Para case mouth width is 0.380 in. and base is 0.3926 in.

Also, checking the sizer for 38 special is much closer (0.379 in) for sizing 380 ACP brass, as mentioned in an earlier post.

So, I guess now I could use my 38 Spc Sizer and the 9mm seating and crimp dies for the 380 ACP. Does that sound about right?:smile:
Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

Spud
12-10-2008, 02:00 PM
So, I guess now I could use my 38 Spc Sizer and the 9mm seating and crimp dies for the 380 ACP. Does that sound about right?:smile:
Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

You can try them to see if they size tight enough. If not, you can get cheap-o 380 dies from LEE for probably under 30 bucks shipped. For crimping I've used Will's idea of gutting the sizer die for taper crimping. On another note, I use a gutted 308 Win die for neck-sizing '06 brass. Lotta things a guy can do with some thought.

Bullshop
12-10-2008, 02:45 PM
Spud
How can that be? All we have for both is 9mm para dies and we load and shoot 380's with no problems whatever. I guess ignorance is bliss.
Come to think of it we are using a 9mm carbide sizer. No way a carbo sizer with just a ring of carbo at the mouth of the die is going to size taper to a case. Weather 9mm or 380 acp when they pass through that die they are straight. Right or wrong?
BIC/BS

Spud
12-10-2008, 05:52 PM
I say if it works for you go for it, but there ain't no way a 380 case will be full length sized in a 9MM die, carbide or no. The dia at the carbide "button" is going to be @.388" whereas a 380 case needs to be sized to @.374" or so, at the base. Eventually there could be chambering probs with the 380's because the portion above the extractor groove is not being sized. Basically, all you are doing is sizing the portion that holds the bullet. Therefore, my recommendation to the OP is to at least get the 380 sizer die, carbide preferred. Adios.

DanWalker
12-10-2008, 07:13 PM
So, that being the case, can I reload 9mm ammo with 380 dies?

Spud
12-10-2008, 07:33 PM
So, that being the case, can I reload 9mm ammo with 380 dies?

:):) Report back how your 9's look after you size 'em in the 380 die!:mrgreen: Oh, do that after you repair the handle on your press.

DanWalker
12-10-2008, 10:03 PM
So I guess the answer is no?

Spud
12-10-2008, 10:18 PM
So I guess the answer is no? Yes, the answer IS no. Thought you were pullin' our leg, Dan, you being a Boolit Master and all. Wasn't making light of your post. One of the deficiencies of these boards. Actually, with some brands (of dies) you might be able to seat boolits, maybe not. Same with the expander die. NO resizing, though.

DanWalker
12-11-2008, 01:34 AM
Nope, no leg pullin here.
I've never reloaded 9mm, and JUST started loading 380's this summer when my wife gave me a bersa 380 for a fathers day present.
And as far as being a boolit MASTER....I think that has more to do with me asking lots of questions and being awful gabby too. I'm no great repository of knowledge. I consider myself an eternal student of the gun and all aspects of reloading and shooting.

Spud
12-11-2008, 02:18 AM
Well I'm no expert either, just happen to know a little about 380's and 9's. My wife has a Colt Gov't 380 we got in the early 90's. It's fun to shoot it, but they're a little puny for carry, IMO. I cast the Lee 102 gr RN bullet for it. Where in Wyo. are you. When we left the PRKalif. four years ago we almost decided on Lander for retirement. Loved that town, but the reports of 40 below winter temps dissuaded us of that! Those Bersa pistols are neat little guns. Have fun. Adios.

9.3X62AL
12-11-2008, 03:13 AM
The 380 ACP and 9 x 19 Luger are about as different as two chamberings of the same diameter can be. I'm glad that got straightened out.

I'm currently out of the 380 ACP business, but still stuff 9mm Makarov brass. After getting a Mak, the 380 is kinda superfluous. Still do 32 ACP, though. Go figure.

stargzer
12-11-2008, 03:28 AM
The 380acp is nothing more than a 9mm (para) short. Brass for the 380 can be made from 9mm. The 38 acp and 38 super are nothing more than a 9mm long.

BIC/BS

The dimensions for the 9mm Para are too different from the .380 ACP, so I do not think you can make 380 brass from 9mm para brass. Since the 9mm is a tapered case and the 380 is almost a straight wall case. Now as far as the 38 ACP and Super, I think yes they are a 9mm only longer.

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

Bullshop
12-11-2008, 03:37 AM
Sorry then it looks like I was wrong about making 380 from 9mm, but the fact remains that we do load all our 380 ammo with a 9mm carbo die set. Are my dies just weard or what? They are RCBS dies. We are shooting the ammo in a Bulgarian Carpatti.
BIC/BS

stargzer
12-11-2008, 03:51 AM
Well, I guess what I really want to know is, has anyone used .38 Special Sizing dies for reloading .380 ACP? I know I can't use the .38 spc crimp die but, thought I could use the 9mm crimping die. I'm just cheap and don't really want to spend too much....[smilie=1:

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

Spud
12-11-2008, 08:01 AM
Well, I guess what I really want to know is, has anyone used .38 Special Sizing dies for reloading .380 ACP? I know I can't use the .38 spc crimp die but, thought I could use the 9mm crimping die. I'm just cheap and don't really want to spend too much....[smilie=1:

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member You can try sizing them in the 38 dies but they may not be "tight"enough to hold boolits w/o probs with boolits being deeper seated when feeding. You'll have to give them a heckuva taper crimp to hold 'em in place. It's great to make equipment do double (or triple, etc.) duty, but in some applications you just have to "bite the boolit" and get the correct tool. BTW, you can get a carbide 380 sizer from Lee, individually, w/o buying the other dies in the set from Midway, Graf, etc. I did this very thing to upgrade a 380 set I already had that didn't have a carbide sizer. G'bye.

Spud
12-11-2008, 08:06 AM
The 380 ACP and 9 x 19 Luger are about as different as two chamberings of the same diameter can be. I'm glad that got straightened out.

I guess nobody'll believe ya when you're jus' a "Boolit Bub" :mrgreen::mrgreen:





edit: stargzer, the 9mm and the 38 Super are not the same. The super is known as being semi-rimmed and is straight-walled. If you don't have one get a Speer reloading manual. It has drawings of all the chamberings with dimensions in in/mm. The 9mmP (9x19) just doesn't have much of anything in common with any of the other nines.

stargzer
12-11-2008, 12:25 PM
Thanks SPUD, yeah....too bad we can't have our equipment do double or triple duty.....like we have to sometimes.....LOL I will probably "bite the boolit" and buy a carbide 380 die set.....it's only MONEY....right?

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

biggome
12-11-2008, 01:07 PM
It's funny how people discount 9mm's as all being pretty much the same.

I know a guy who says he only uses 9mm Para in his 9mm Largo chambered Star.

Another guy told me he only shoots 380 ammo in his Ruski 9mm Mak, I bet it is a real tack driver with .010" clearance between the bullet and bore!

I have seen a 380 that managed to cycle and fire a 32 ACP round that got mixed in and the guy who shot it thought the spent brass looked like it must to have been overloaded, I told him no, it was very much underloaded.

Best bet, buy the correct dies, unless all calibers concerned are dead straight and you have the shortest of the lot you will probably waste a lot of time and effort to find the shortcomings of the "wrong" dies.

I think I have a set of plain steel 380 dies you can have for shipping cost if you are willing to lube your cases.

Paul

Bret4207
12-11-2008, 05:22 PM
Lee dies for the 380 are pretty inexpensive. I'll go that route if I ever get around to it. Got a nice NEI 90 gr FN 380 from a member here sometime back. Haven't had a chance to use it, but it should make a heck of a small game gun. Of course the brass will be gone forever, but that's life.

Al, I was looking at a couple Savage 32's just yesterday. They appeal to my nostalgic side.

9.3X62AL
12-11-2008, 09:09 PM
Bret et al--

After about a dozen each of both 32 ACP and 380 ACP, my experience is that the 32 is generally a more accurate round than the 380. Neither is seen at Camp Perry much, but the 32 just does better work overall (for me, at least). That's not supposed to be the case--the rimless critter is by reputation a better index in the chamber than the semi-rim, but there it is there. So much for "reputation" and "supposed to be", in this sitch.

The two Savage 32 ACPs I'm familiar with (Models 1907 and 1917) are both finely-crafted pieces. I would be tempted by a nice example--as if I needed another 32 ACP.

Treeman
12-12-2008, 09:33 PM
There are a lot of things that CAN be done crossing cartridges into differing die sets that aren't precisely right. As mentioned 9mm parabellum is a tapered case. 380 isn't-but the mouth diameters are close enough to perhaps get a usable loading. Likewise using.38 special-it MAY work depending upon tolerances. 9mm Para cases can be converted to 9mm Makarov-bases are about the same so if you shorten the para and eliminate the taper the case works with the Mak (a fat 9mm-.363 or so)---the CASES work NOT the DIES...on the other hand my Mak Dies work perfectly for processing .38 S&W (NOT .38 Specials!). You have to look at the specs and then test your dies-some size more or less than others due to differing internal dimensions.

stargzer
12-13-2008, 02:08 AM
There are a lot of things that CAN be done crossing cartridges into differing die sets that aren't precisely right. As mentioned 9mm parabellum is a tapered case. 380 isn't-but the mouth diameters are close enough to perhaps get a usable loading. Likewise using.38 special-it MAY work depending upon tolerances. You have to look at the specs and then test your dies-some size more or less than others due to differing internal dimensions.

You are right Treeman, I should test my 38 Special siziing die and try using my 9mm seating and crimp die first. Heck, maybe it just might work :Fire:

woodsoup
12-21-2008, 08:34 AM
For $30.00+/- just buy a set of .380 dies and you'll end all the confusion.