9mm lead melting in hot barrel?

[farmbif]

I have a friend who likes to shoot as fast as possible. he's been casting and reloading for about half dozen years. said he's pan lubing with Alox. and he was telling me he thought that cast 9mm boolits were melting in his Ruger SR9 barrel after going through 6 full magazines in rapid fashion. said barrel was very hot and accuracy fell way off and he shot a half dozen jacketed bullets through it while hot and it cleaned barrel right up. he's hundreds of miles away so I have not seen any of this but is all this possible?

[Outpost75]

I never had any problem with cast bullets melting in a Thompson SMG, and I don't believe that Larry Gibson has either.

Your "friend" has mental health issues and does not set a good example.

[bangerjim]

More of a "Wrong Fit" to his barrel problem than a temp problem I surmise. Have him slug his barrel and check his sized cast boolits.

Mabe he needs to read up a bit on the fine art of casting in today's modern world and get a different sizing die?

And why the big hurry to waste ammo? What does rapid fire gain him? Anyone can hit the target using the "spray-n-pray" technique.

I would suggest also PC'ing his rounds.

[JimB..]

Let’s assume that it doesn't get hot enough to melt lead, but how much does a bore expand when heated to say 350F? If he’s sizing slightly small might it be too small once the barrel gets hot?

I don’t know, just asking.

[Thunder Stick]

I have a friend who likes to shoot as fast as possible. he's been casting and reloading for about half dozen years. said he's pan lubing with Alox. and he was telling me he thought that cast 9mm boolits were melting in his Ruger SR9 barrel after going through 6 full magazines in rapid fashion. said barrel was very hot and accuracy fell way off and he shot a half dozen jacketed bullets through it while hot and it cleaned barrel right up. he's hundreds of miles away so I have not seen any of this but is all this possible?

Several things that I've experienced come to mind after reading your post.

I too have a Ruger 9mm pistol and the groove diameter is .357. My Alox coated Lee bullets were dropping at .356. I was experiencing poor accuracy and barrel leading. I also found that in resizing the 9mm brass, the expander was not going deep enough. Seating my non-PC'd bullets was squeezing them down even smaller.

Powder coating the lead boolits slightly increased boolit diameter and now accuracy is better than factory ammo in my gun. I get no leading with powder coat. Powder coating the lead boolits slightly increased boolit diameter and now accuracy is better than factory ammo in my own gun.

Just a couple things to think about.

[fcvan]

I almost laughed when I read this! But, I realize that folks who ask questions deserve more respect than those who do not. Is it possible? Theoretically I suppose, very unlikely in my opinion. I shoot a lot of .223 cast where the volume of lead is vastly outweighed by the steel of the chamber and barrel.

At a high sustained rate of fire my barrel gets pretty hot as any firearm does. I would think you are more likely to cook off a round before a projectile would melt. The only time I had a gun so hot it would burn me, I was shooting an AK 47 chambered in .223 Rem. I had loaded 1k of ammo with a load not hot enough to cycle a Mini 14, AR 15, but if the AK was hot it ran. I did not own any of the weapons, but 3 buddies did, that is why I loaded up 1k rounds.

We took turns blowing it off through the AK 47. The pin in the fore end stock got so hot I had to wear gloves. We did not experience any rounds cooking off. Anyway, we literally had a blast! The next week, I loaded another 1k with a more appropriate load and we enjoyed shooting the other rifles. My friends were sent home with 250 apiece and I had a good time loading for and shooting with my friends and their rifles. Back then, I was getting 3300 or so 55 FMJ for 50 bucks, powder was $13 a pound. Money wasn't a thing, but fun was.

[Dusty Bannister]

Realistically, I would wonder what kind of bullet lube he is using and is it sufficient for the heat that is being generated. You might ask if after a cool down period, accuracy returns until the next fire storm has been completed. Of course it would be nice to know if he can even see leading or a silver star on the muzzle.

[StuBach]

+1 on the slugging barrel and PC argument. I had some leading issues with my 380 when I first got into loading for it and found that most 9mm molds I saw were cut to .3550 but my barrel was .3555. Leading stopped when I started PCing even though I still size to .355.

[M-Tecs]

Let’s assume that it doesn't get hot enough to melt lead, but how much does a bore expand when heated to say 350F? If he’s sizing slightly small might it be too small once the barrel gets hot?

I don’t know, just asking.

The type of steel used in firearm barrels normally expands at about .000006" per inch per degrees. If the barrel starts at 72 degrees that is a 278 degree difference. 278 x .000006 = 0.001668" for an inch. On a .355 bore that would be around 0.00059214" or just over 1/2 thou.

[JimB..]

The type of steel used in firearm barrels normally expands at about .000006" per inch per degrees. If the barrel starts at 72 degrees that is a 278 degree difference. 278 x .000006 = 0.001668" for an inch. On a .355 bore that would be around 0.00059214" or just over 1/2 thou.

Thanks!

[StuBach]

The type of steel used in firearm barrels normally expands at about .000006" per inch per degrees. If the barrel starts at 72 degrees that is a 278 degree difference. 278 x .000006 = 0.001668" for an inch. On a .355 bore that would be around 0.00059214" or just over 1/2 thou.

I am in awe of your metallurgical knowledge. [emoji15]

[Larry Gibson]

farmbif

Are you sure your post doesn't belong in this thread; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?104710-OLD-WIVES-TALES-and-MISINFORMATION

All kidding aside the guy "pan lubes" and then dumps 6 mags as fast as he can....obviously spends a lot of time pan lubing. As Outpost75 mentions I've shot a lot of cast bullets out of automatic weapons including 9mm subguns w/o any problems. Got several M2 Carbines smoking hot shooting several 30 round mags of 311359s over 13.5 gr H110 through them in 2 -3 shot bursts.....nary any sign of leading or inaccuracy.... even loaded a 200 round belt of 311291s over 28.5 gr H4895 in 7.62 NATO and ran them in 6 -10 shot bursts out of an M60.....again, nary a sign of leading or inaccuracy. I've also dumped several 30/32 round mags of 45 ACP with 205 gr H&G 68s over 5 gr Bullseye out of M3A1 "Grease gun" and a 1928 A1 Thompson just to demonstrate that even with a full mag "burst" they were indeed controllable {did not fly skyward as oft reported] if shot correctly. Did the same with several different 9mm cast bullets, usually over 4 gr Bullseye, out of an MP40, a MP35 "Swedish K" and several other 9mm's.....all without any such leading or inaccuracy.

[beagle]

Same with cast 9mm in a Swedish K. May be getting leading but they're not in the barrel long enough to melt./beagle


I never had any problem with cast bullets melting in a Thompson SMG, and I don't believe that Larry Gibson has either.

Your "friend" has mental health issues and does not set a good example.

[John McCorkle]

My hypothesis is that it's fitment in the bore either through too much crimp in case or just in general a slightly undersized bullet ...the effects are just showing up in a hurry because you're firing off so many in a short time. It prob would become evident after 100 rounds slow fire too

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[bedbugbilly]

I had a SR9 - it was a great pistol. The ONLY time I ever dumped a magazine full as fast as I could was during a class for my Michigan CPL class The instructors wanted each of us, sat the end of the class, to dump a full magazine or cylinder as fast as we could so we "had the experience". I remember at the time my though was "what a waste of ammo" - a 15 round double stack a bit more than the 5 shot J frame the fellow had next to me.

The issue of your friend's "claim" has already been discussed. But if I knew someone who felt the need to dump a half a dozen 15 round double stack mags as fast as he can (a total of 90 rounds) I think I would be questioning if I wanted to hang around them much or if I ever wanted to go shooting with them again. As my dear departed father would often say about someone with questionable behavior . . . "he ain't right". Just my humble opinion.

[Thumbcocker]

I recall reading about one civil war battle (lookout mountain?) Where it was claimed that the muskets were fired so rapidly that the forearm wood charred and lead ran out the barrels. Always wondered how they got the powder charge down the barrel.

[jimb16]

I used to have an M2 carbine that I ran multiple 30 round mags thru using cast bullets. The barrel would get so hot the it began to smoke. I never had any problem with leading. My bullets were .002 over groove dia. No fall off in accuracy either. They were cast of straight cowws.

[Burnt Fingers]

I had a SR9 - it was a great pistol. The ONLY time I ever dumped a magazine full as fast as I could was during a class for my Michigan CPL class The instructors wanted each of us, sat the end of the class, to dump a full magazine or cylinder as fast as we could so we "had the experience". I remember at the time my though was "what a waste of ammo" - a 15 round double stack a bit more than the 5 shot J frame the fellow had next to me.

The issue of your friend's "claim" has already been discussed. But if I knew someone who felt the need to dump a half a dozen 15 round double stack mags as fast as he can (a total of 90 rounds) I think I would be questioning if I wanted to hang around them much or if I ever wanted to go shooting with them again. As my dear departed father would often say about someone with questionable behavior . . . "he ain't right". Just my humble opinion.

Wow, judge much?

I shoot some carbine drills that take 30-40 rounds in a very short time. Do a few of those back to back and you'll burn through 300-400 rounds real quck.

I've had the barrel smoking hot on my Ruger PCC.

[fredj338]

I have a friend who likes to shoot as fast as possible. he's been casting and reloading for about half dozen years. said he's pan lubing with Alox. and he was telling me he thought that cast 9mm boolits were melting in his Ruger SR9 barrel after going through 6 full magazines in rapid fashion. said barrel was very hot and accuracy fell way off and he shot a half dozen jacketed bullets through it while hot and it cleaned barrel right up. he's hundreds of miles away so I have not seen any of this but is all this possible?

No. What is likely is he is getting leading from the Alox failing. Then further screwing things up by chasing lead loads with jacketed. It doesn't clean the bbl but irons the lead into the micro pours of the bbl & unless you clean the jacket fouling out, plates over that. His powder choice may be playing into it. TG burns really hot & imo, melts lubes upon ignition resulting in more leading. Bullet size is also crucial. I shoot pretty fast strings in my stock glock G19 with lead bullets sized to 0.357" & conv lubed, never an issue. I have since switched to coated, just cleaner.

[fredj338]

I recall reading about one civil war battle (lookout mountain?) Where it was claimed that the muskets were fired so rapidly that the forearm wood charred and lead ran out the barrels. Always wondered how they got the powder charge down the barrel.

Really not possible since it would take them 30sec or so to reload & fire. Barrel get hot enough to burn wood, sure, that only requires about 300-350deg? Lead melts at over 600 continuous deg.

[erief0g]

Still lurking around and getting my knowledge up. I enjoy these threads as I've got a decent amount of very soft lead 6-7 brinell and about 200 pounds of 12 brinell that is 2.5-3% antimony. I'm still preparing to cast at this point so my knowledge is theoretical. My hopes are that the 12 brinell hardness will suffice for my 9mm target loads which hover around 1000FPS without need for more. I'll also be powder coating. Threads like this have me looking forward to finding out. All indications so far appear that this will work out fine as long as I get my bullet diameter sized properly to my slugged barrel.